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Brea Lafail
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.16 17:10:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kaar
Originally by: Brea Lafail North America is a lot bigger than Europe, thus farther to drive, so gas prices hurt more.
lol, that makes no sense what so ever.
How many people in the UK commute 100km or more? How far do your groceries have to travel by truck? How far do you have to drive for a good camp spot or to see a concert?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.16 17:29:00 -
[62]
The only problem with the OP's "letter" is that it says it's a buyer's market for gasoline. Actually, no, it's not. It's a seller's market. You NEED gas, and there's less and less of it to go around, while the need for it keeps increasing.
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Shakuul
O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.03.16 17:37:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Divad Ginleek This is an example of economic lag. Few people can afford to go out and buy a new car right off the bat when prices fluctuate. So it causes extra hardship to them for the period that the prices are high until the economy and wages adjust to the new price.
Now, I will concede that we have had several years of steadily rising prices, so anyone still in a gas guzzler is either too poor to buy a new car, or a masochist that enjoys the pain at the pump. That being said, there is a clear trend away from SUV and toward Hybrids and smaller cars, due to the stigma that has been attached to SUVs in the media in recent years, and the more practical economic reasons.
Also, there is a tax on gas. But it's low, so I don't think its what your talking about... A conditioning tool to shape the buying and movement habits of the general populace? Thats the kind of thing that is generally frowned upon over here.
I'm just suggesting that the lag wouldn't be as much of an issue if a (higher) gas tax had been announced and slowly introduced much earlier. Companies would have invested more in efficient engines and we'd have better technology today.
While a higher gas tax would certainly influence behavior, I wouldn't characterize it as a "conditioning tool." For every additional gallon of gas your car uses, you pollute a little bit more, yet you pay nothing for this additional pollution. This means you will overconsume gas, since you don't have to pay for the full cost (gas price plus pollution cleanup). I don't know how you'd actually estimate this negative externality, but I think the principle is there so the tax is justified.
Additionally, I think that if you want to encourage/discourage a certain behavior (like consuming less gas/polluting less) then a tax is the best way to do it. Subsidizing fuel efficient vehicles and so forth lead to strange outcomes. If I remember correctly there was one in Arizona (or a nearby state) where golf carts were subsidized because of their fuel efficiency. You got like a $2000 tax rebate or something for owning one, so everyone just bought a golf cart for like $500.
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lofty29
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.16 17:40:00 -
[64]
Will you americans shut the **** up about 'OH WAA OUR GAS IS SO HIGHLY PRICED'.
You sell your gas at such a low price, and don't really give a ****, nor realize, that within the next 50 - 100 years, oil supplies are almost definitely going to run out.
Right now, you pay $3 - $4 a gallon.
That's roughly ú1.80.
We pay ú1.10 per litre, making it about ú4 per gallon, or $7 / $8.
Once your gas prices rise higher than ours, I'll agree that it's 'HOLY **** OUT OF CONTROL WTF!'.
But don't ******* complain that you suddenly have to start paying the same amount as almost every other country around the world, just because you've been burning your own oil supplies.
Buy a bike. I was in NYC for the last week, and I used the subway once (to get to china town from Times square), a bus once (Greenwich from time square), and a limousine once (empire states -> hotel ). The rest of the time I walked, usually walked a couple hundred blocks / day by the end of it. If I had a bike, I would've been able to make that in 3x the speed, easily. Obviously a lot of people won't live in the city / town they work in, but if you do, buy a bike. Seriously, what will it add? 5, 10 minutes to your daily trip? What will you save? $5000, 10,000?. A year? Use gas for longer trips, but don't be a lazy **** who won't walk a mile to work. 族---族
Latest Video : Relentless |
Polonium 210
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.16 19:07:00 -
[65]
Really, this isn't too expensive. Here in Russia we pay about 90 cents a litre of benzine, and have quite a distances to drive too. You have to prepare to pay more, man, approx 4-5 times more at last, and it's going to happen sooner than you think. Buy yourself smaller car, while they are cheap.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.16 21:12:00 -
[66]
A much reasonable "measure" of how expensive gas is should be the price per km (or price per mile, if you're in one of them imperialistic-only-units states). After all, that's the only thing you should CARE about, how far will "this" amount of cash carry you.
Over "here" (i.e. Europe), a car that uses up 6 l per 100 km on a long(er) drive is about average, even below average for economy. That's roughly 40 miles per gallon, for you US residents. Even 4 l per 100 km is not all that uncommon, especially for Diesel-fueled cars (and that's almost 60 mpg).
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.16 21:48:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Akita T A much reasonable "measure" of how expensive gas is should be the price per km (or price per mile, if you're in one of them imperialistic-only-units states). After all, that's the only thing you should CARE about, how far will "this" amount of cash carry you.
Over "here" (i.e. Europe), a car that uses up 6 l per 100 km on a long(er) drive is about average, even below average for economy. That's roughly 40 miles per gallon, for you US residents. Even 4 l per 100 km is not all that uncommon, especially for Diesel-fueled cars (and that's almost 60 mpg).
mini cooper is the epitome of that.
the "eco" version of it can eat as much as 4L per 100km.
and I think the GT version doesn't eat that much fuel aswell. ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
SoftRevolution
Complicity.
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Posted - 2008.03.16 22:11:00 -
[68]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 16/03/2008 22:11:14 Merkuns QQing about petrol prices?
ps. Where does oil come from? Who do you keep ****ing off? EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 00:23:00 -
[69]
Approx $7.40 a gallon in UK. Smallest violin for OP. ------
Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.17 01:34:00 -
[70]
US public transportation for 95% of the country = fail. Of all the places in the US I have lived in DC had the only decent public transportation system I've come across.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Divad Ginleek While $4 a gallon is indeed still cheap compared to other parts of the world. The lag period as the rest of the economy adjusts to the extra drain on wages is what makes a lot of people crazy about it.
In the US, we have had it too easy, and are too caught up in the profit culture that lets major corperations get away with all manner of questionable activity. It is my personal opinion as an American that the American people need a good economic wakeup call, the current credit problems are symptomatic of a deep "gimme now!" cultural deficit that needs to be fixed. It was fixed once before in 1929, I can only hope it doesn't take another depression to wake people up. But it might.
The best way to influence fuel prices is to just adjust your daily activity for efficiency. Need to run to the store and its not urgent? Wait till your going somewhere else and pick it up on the way. Carpool to work. Buy a motorcycle. When they don't sell as much product, the price will automatically adjust. Its how economies work...
And on another note: Why the hell is this even on the EVE forums? We play games to forget problems in reality. Not compare notes on them... lol
Intially when the op posted eve had been not so subtly sabotaged by ccp in the form of a new patch.
Why doesn't somebody do something about opec ?
On one hand we have hemp wearing child abusing liberals crying safe the earth when in fact they just want to control us with extra taxes in the name of "SAVE THE WORLD TAX THE FUEL !!!"
Then opec saying there is no reason to increase production hence forcing prices up artificially or perhaps they're trying to "SAVE THE WORLD" naaa they're sweaty greedy ****s.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:40:00 -
[72]
Originally by: mentalmarsupial Edited by: mentalmarsupial on 16/03/2008 08:40:45 Seen as bloodywomble is in a 'hear no evil, see no evil' state I doubt he will even read this (flame it on the other hand..). Prices in the UK are so high not because we just accept it but mostly because of the large tax on it, to discorage people buying inefficient cars and because the fuel is a form of road tax (there is a red dyed diesel that has far lower tax rates but cannot be used on the road). Tax has to come from somewhere, remove some and it just comes in through another means.
The OP should understand your plan will not work when said brand's prices drop by more than a few cents people will start switching over. As other posters have said use public transport / get a bike / more fuel efficent car as although I dont know what you drive if its some wage-your-own-personal-war-on-the-environment SUV you could probably save the same amount of cash per mile by getting a more effiecent car than you would if you plan reached its target.
grammer : S
Ok why is tax so high in the uk, open a can or worms with that one.
One reason is its a lefty government and they tax as a means of control and with no opposition what so ever. Bring back Maggie !! She'd remove browns ********* in no time and use em for real crappy paper weights.
A benefit system with so many people abusing its nobodys business. Don't even mention the abortion that is the national health service.
Guess who gets to pay? the honest hard working peeps who wouldn't think to screw the system like dole scroungers and the reams of illegal immigrants pouring in through every possible method possible.
Road tax is not spent on roads in the u.k as it should be, so why should anyone believe that the tax on fuel is to deter hard working peeps from buying vehicles that they want to buy. Its just another method of control by the communist party that masquerades for the labour party.
Basically the government in power ****s up and the honest worker picks up the tab, and it will never change until the normal man in the street does something about.
Petrol prices included.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Brea Lafail North America is a lot bigger than Europe, thus farther to drive, so gas prices hurt more. Also, a lot of cities here have ****e public transit. Atleast we have some of our own oil, you should switch to gasified coal.
Also, it has been known for a long time that the oil reserves were overestimated, its no reason for a price hike. And by overestimated, I mean completely fictitious reserves appeared.
Buses services were privatised in the u.k a few years ago and now what has happened to rural services ? they don't exist any more.
America is a big place with a lot of miles to cover hence public transport is even less viable, therefore a lot of people have no choice to use their own vehicles.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: kessah Buy a diesel car, my friend uses a land rover defender and convert it to accept recycled chip fat. you can buy a massive amout for next to nothing, down side is you need to use your own place as a filling station - so not so practical in the urban areas, but its a cool and cheap ideal.
Think it takes little more than 1/2 years for you to get your money back from conversion. The old defenders are easy to maintain too.
Its not a solution but its something il be doing soon. - you might talk to your local farmer perhaps he could be talked into keeping a filling type station for this fuel.
When you dont have any about u can always buy regular diesel in case of emergencies.
OOOOOOO me valves me valves in kenneth williams kinda way.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Mohia Matara
Originally by: BloodyWomble
Originally by: Benco97 I find this thread just ridiculous, you guys want EVERYTHING don't you? Guess what happens to a price when demand is high? Guess what happens to demand when you all USE SO MUCH? Buy a bike.
jealousness is strong in this one......
Please substantiate "want everything" You have a chip on your block matey...... doesn't matter whatever the op decided to highlight, its the fact he's american and folks for what ever sad pathetic reason love to hate americans.
And no I am not american merely someone who can see more than one point of view, instead of the blinkered one hypocrites like you love to peddle.
Jesus so just because you are whining about insanely cheap fuel becomming...a little less insanely cheap means that if we think your a whiner we must be an american hater?
Seriously just stop trying to troll, you fail and it is just making America look bad.
Its all relative you muppet.
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BloodyWomble
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: lofty29 Will you americans shut the **** up about 'OH WAA OUR GAS IS SO HIGHLY PRICED'.
You sell your gas at such a low price, and don't really give a ****, nor realize, that within the next 50 - 100 years, oil supplies are almost definitely going to run out.
Right now, you pay $3 - $4 a gallon.
That's roughly ú1.80.
We pay ú1.10 per litre, making it about ú4 per gallon, or $7 / $8.
Once your gas prices rise higher than ours, I'll agree that it's 'HOLY **** OUT OF CONTROL WTF!'.
But don't ******* complain that you suddenly have to start paying the same amount as almost every other country around the world, just because you've been burning your own oil supplies.
Buy a bike. I was in NYC for the last week, and I used the subway once (to get to china town from Times square), a bus once (Greenwich from time square), and a limousine once (empire states -> hotel ). The rest of the time I walked, usually walked a couple hundred blocks / day by the end of it. If I had a bike, I would've been able to make that in 3x the speed, easily. Obviously a lot of people won't live in the city / town they work in, but if you do, buy a bike. Seriously, what will it add? 5, 10 minutes to your daily trip? What will you save? $5000, 10,000?. A year? Use gas for longer trips, but don't be a lazy **** who won't walk a mile to work.
You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:58:00 -
[77]
Originally by: lofty29 Buy a bike. I was in NYC for the last week, and I used the subway once (to get to china town from Times square), a bus once (Greenwich from time square), and a limousine once (empire states -> hotel ). The rest of the time I walked, usually walked a couple hundred blocks / day by the end of it. If I had a bike, I would've been able to make that in 3x the speed, easily. Obviously a lot of people won't live in the city / town they work in, but if you do, buy a bike. Seriously, what will it add? 5, 10 minutes to your daily trip? What will you save? $5000, 10,000?. A year? Use gas for longer trips, but don't be a lazy **** who won't walk a mile to work.
Seriously, wtf is with you Euros? Just because your fuel costs a lot means that everyone else's has to as well? That makes absolutely no sense.
Also, just because you were able to use the subway and the like doesn't mean that's an option in most U.S. cities. Most U.S. cities are quite spread out, building outwards instead of upwards. This results in more distance traveled to get to and from work.
...and here's the kicker: most U.S. cities don't have very good mass transit. NYC is one of the exceptions, but until we get more (and more efficient) subways, trains, and buses, walking or riding a bike isn't much of an option.
Now, of course, this is the point where you tell us to get off our asses and build better mass transit already, as if each and every one of us had a real say in what the government does. This is, however, not the case - we elect the members of the government, but after that have little to no say. So when your average man off the street complains about having difficulty making ends meet due to high gas prices, it's not like he has all that many options to do something about it. He still needs to put food on the table and keep a roof over his head, and that means driving to and from his place of employment.
So, yeah, we need better public transportation, no doubt about it, but there's not much your average Joe can do about the situation. He has to keep paying those high gas prices because he's just another member of the captive market. For you to come on here and start *****ing about people who're having trouble keeping their kids fed and clothed because of gas prices is simply callous.
Again, just because you have to pay through the nose for fuel doesn't mean everyone else should have to. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:34:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 17/03/2008 17:35:53
America is a democracy. Average Joe can write to his elected representatives. If the issue means that much to him, weekly.
It is no accident European governments spend what they spend on transport infrastructure (and much else besides), they know there are consequences for failure.
America is not really that spread out either. Yes, Houston is a big city, but so is London. And while there is no point running intercity trains in the Midwest, that argument does not apply on the East Coast and California, which are built up same as Europe. Plenty of room to lay rails alongside the highways, or turn 16 lanes into 12 and run light rail.
I do not see the difficulty, either geographic or economic. We managed it in spite of two wars, being split up into more than half as many national governments as the US has states and being comparatively poor.
The only difficulty that makes sense is political, at the grass roots level. In which case, the American consumer is telling the market that what he pays is OK and this is all a big fuss over nothing.
EVE CCG Trinity Booster
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:46:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Wrayeth Seriously, wtf is with you Euros? Just because your fuel costs a lot means that everyone else's has to as well? That makes absolutely no sense.
actually, no.
it's more like "we want to pay less". ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:37:00 -
[80]
2 dollars a liter here, what is the crybaby on about?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
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Mozqito
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus 2 dollars a liter here, what is the crybaby on about?
Could be worse, the dollar could actually be worth something
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Miki Fin
Independant Union of Rangers
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:03:00 -
[82]
The chain mail was started by BP in an attempt to drive out their largest competitor, Exxon, with the aim of ultimately raising petrol prices further once the damage was irreversable. Well done for helping them on their way to world domination.
/me looks for tinfoil hat.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:22:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Miki Fin The chain mail was started by BP in an attempt to drive out their largest competitor, Exxon, with the aim of ultimately raising petrol prices further once the damage was irreversable. Well done for helping them on their way to world domination.
/me looks for tinfoil hat.
Joking aside, some people really do hold beliefs like that.
EVE CCG Trinity Booster
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus 2 dollars a liter here, what is the crybaby on about?
still cheaper than here ("special" regular 95 octane gas is ~1.45Ç wich is equivalent to some 2.28$) ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Seriously, wtf is with you Euros? Just because your fuel costs a lot means that everyone else's has to as well? That makes absolutely no sense.
The point is, the OP's post started with the preposition that the price of petrol in the US is so cripplingly high that he won't even be able to play EVE any more, and that it'll ruin everyone's life if the petrol gets to $4.00 a gallon.
Seeing as the UK, for example, is at about $7.40 a gallon and WE'RE not all living in tin shacks eating scraps and generally acting poverty-stricken, he (and all the Americans who complain about $4 gas) must be vastly exaggerating.
Fact is, America's native oil supply is gradually running down, the global oil supply isn't far behind it, and growing economies like China and India are pushing demand right up- oil is going to get more expensive, and its not going to stop. You can complain and ***** and whine and protest and boycott all you want, but it doesn't change those market facts. ------
Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Mtthias Clemi
The Space Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Wrayeth
Seriously, wtf is with you Euros? Just because your fuel costs a lot means that everyone else's has to as well? That makes absolutely no sense.
The point is, the OP's post started with the preposition that the price of petrol in the US is so cripplingly high that he won't even be able to play EVE any more, and that it'll ruin everyone's life if the petrol gets to $4.00 a gallon.
Seeing as the UK, for example, is at about $7.40 a gallon and WE'RE not all living in tin shacks eating scraps and generally acting poverty-stricken, he (and all the Americans who complain about $4 gas) must be vastly exaggerating.
Fact is, America's native oil supply is gradually running down, the global oil supply isn't far behind it, and growing economies like China and India are pushing demand right up- oil is going to get more expensive, and its not going to stop. You can complain and ***** and whine and protest and boycott all you want, but it doesn't change those market facts.
Quickly! to the Patchmobile!
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Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:33:00 -
[87]
It's more that the OP is just a thinly veiled and overly complex way of someone starting a ridiculous chain email that annoys me more than the gas price message it conveys.
-------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
jason hill
Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:18:00 -
[88]
SAVE ENERGY !!!! fart in a jar
destroy everything you touch |
Adonis 4174
White Wolf Enterprises Harmonious Ascent
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:27:00 -
[89]
Actually, this plan was originated by the Dump The Pumps scheme in the UK around the turn of the century. It didn't work. Eventually people were blockading oil depots and fuel prices fell. ---- Exploding underpants: The real weapon of last resort. |
Possesive
GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Bohoba $3.98 here.
makes a differance when house hold income is 20K-30K a year
bet the UK is more :) on avrage that is
Not too sure what you're saying there but if you're implying that the average household in the UK earns more than 30k a year, you could possibly be right, you're not accounting for the cost of living here which is considerably more expensive than the US or the EU in general. You can do your own research for that, compare the cost of electrical goods between the UK and Germany for example and then compare designer goods.
Earning more doesnt really help when you pay more for almost everything else. I travel around a thousand miles a week on average, without being sent to a site for work purposes (although, that would only add around 200 miles or so).My weekly fuel bill is extortionate, however I dont have a choice if I want to work in my profession. Ihave to drive, without it my livelyhood would suffer immensely, and I am not going back to that position for anyone.
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