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Strange incident and petition response time question

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Author	Topic
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2008.03.17 18:07:00 - [31] Originally by: Tyria Sharken but as EVE does not constantly 'ping' the client, your client itself didnt realize it had lost connection Not only the client didn't realize the disconnection, also the server didn't, it seems, because Lo3deR was killed by other players. Being killed means, someone had to approach him or jump through the gate or shoot or whatever, but definitely something must have happened to be sent from the server to the client to update the screen information on the client side. In this moment the server should have noticed that the client is disconnected and have made it impossible in some way to be killed and podded. But obviously it was possible for the attackers. That's a bug and must result in reimbursement imo.
TheWangofChuck D Anonymous Wars	Posted - 2008.03.17 20:00:00 - [32] Edited by: TheWangofChuck D on 17/03/2008 20:00:04 I had the same problem as the op and didn't get reimbursed. I don't have a problem with CCP's policy regarding reimbursement, however, I do have a problem with their logs and the inability of the client to tell me when I've disconnected. Regardless of who disconnected from who (ie - my client from the server, or the server from my client) is inconsequential. Both sides should be able to detect when the other has been dc'd. That's what ****es me off. Losing ships is one thing. I'm fine with that. Losing them due to client/server error (or lack of client/server dc logs) is another. Best of luck to the op, but you're probably not going to get the response you were looking for from the gm's.
Lo3d3R MAFIA	Posted - 2008.03.20 08:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 20/03/2008 08:21:30 Ok wel sofar 1 ship has been reimbursed, the modules that got dropped are not beeing reimbursed . I am now making a message about the clone etc, wonder how that will go. Had no answer on the other account as of yet. ___________________ Sexy Time:
Apocryphai Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.20 08:27:00 - [34] Edited by: Apocryphai on 20/03/2008 08:27:34 Originally by: Tyria Sharken The Reimbersment 'might' swing in your favor if they can check the logs on the server and see that you were attacked, and took no action to try to save yourself. Or they could argue that you were just AFK. CCP's current stance seems to be that they won't reimburse for anything except actual proven bugs in the game and even then you have to escalate and escalate and generally get very, very lucky. Consider it a loss due to bad luck and if you get VERY lucky with the petition game then you might get something back, but consider that like a lottery ticket tbh. If all you lost is 900 mil then a character of your age should be able to recoup that loss very quickly. Edit: I see you did indeed get very lucky, grats :p Shame with CCP that it's a 1 in a 100 chance for that ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
theteck Castor Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.20 08:29:00 - [35] the same thing happen to me but im in mining the barge still mining but the box do not fill after i touch the mouse to try to advance and click lost connection and my second account too i respawn with my box full on my 2 account ... weird
Druadan Aristotle Enterprises Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.03.20 08:45:00 - [36] Edited by: Druadan on 20/03/2008 08:45:30 The way in which the client - and seeing as you got killed, the server, too - handles this is really quite shoddy from a software engineering perspective. The client and server should detect the gracelessly closed connection, begin a logout procedure on the server and inform the user of the disconnection on the client. Unless they're using spit UDP, there's very little reason for this not to happen. With that in mind I would say it is definitely a bug and should be completely reimbursable. It's worth kicking up a real fuss about, as it's not acceptable. -Dru Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Rainbow Bear Care Bears	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:48:00 - [37] Edited by: Rainbow Bear on 20/03/2008 10:49:40 Guys, I had problems with connections back in Ye Olden Days when 0.0 was empty, which meant my connection would just randomly drop at any given time. It could be minutes, it could be days, but more on this at the bottom of the post if anyone wants to read it. The thing which helped me diagnose the problem was getting a program called Ping Plotter which will graphically display a trace route every 15 seconds (because my ADSL router would instantly reconnect, so exact timing needed logging). The byproduct of this for some of you affected is that the connection will not be dropped due to the constant activity. So, get this: http://www.pingplotter.com/ Punch in this IP: 87.237.38.200 And see how you go..... If anyones interested my problem was a neighbour had a rogue electrical appliance which put out a massive electro magnetic field which knocked out everyones connection in range and upstream of the device whenever it was switched on! I never found out the source as the engineers were not allowed to tell me, but a letter from the UK Radio Interference Authority (Ofcom) and a follow up visit from BT to help them track down the device sorted it in a few days. Note that this is a really, really rare situation, so its unlikely to be the same for anyone else. ------------------------------------- Where Care Bears Came From!
theteck Castor Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:02:00 - [38] never have this probleme before the patch ...
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:54:00 - [39] The quality of petition response has, for me at least, always been excellent. Can take a few days. SKUNK
Lo3d3R MAFIA	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:51:00 - [40] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 25/03/2008 16:51:37 To whom it may concern: I am pleased to announce that I got (almost) fully reimbursed \0/, yes today is a good day and now I can lose my stuff in a real fight . The only thing that was not reimbursed were the modules that dropped when I got killed, maybe this has something to do with the economic effects? The rulebook says that in such an event you have to go out and get your stuff from the wreck... well this is not remotely possible in a number of occasions. I have made this comment in the suggestion box. I'm very happy that the GM's drew the same conclusions as I did, overall in terms of service I rated it 8/10, good. 0/ Lo3d3R ___________________ Sexy Time:

NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:13:00 - [41] Edited by: NightmareX on 25/03/2008 17:13:52 Lo3d3R, good to see that you got your ship back. I was not that lucky last time i lost my Hurricane to desync, because the logs didn't show anything, and i even had 2 different GM's to look at my petition, and both of them couldn't find anything. But desyncs is not easy to find, and it's very rare to find anything in the logs about it, and if they find anything with desyncs, then your very very lucky. So i understand their rules about reimbursing under desyncing. Other than that, the GM have done an awesome job with my petitions. CCP, fix my forum portrait goddamnit.
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Originally by: Lo3d3R I thought hmmm how strange then I tried to dock my alt on a different computer at that same time, and again 'connection failed'. Then I looked on my third account and as soon as I clicked, you geussed it, 'connection failed'. Do anyone of you have simular experiences All the time. I think Eve lacks some sort of "keep alive" packets to check if its still connected once in a while. At least once I have been playing Eve for up to minutes in "offline mode" before it realizes that its desynced or not connected anymore. As for the chances of a petition, my advise however is to spend your time on something more productive, like trying to boil water by looking at it it's worst in unpopulated low-sec systems. I find that when i'm docked up there and nothing's going on in any chat channels I disconnect from EVE within 5 minutes and don't even know until I try to do something, where it CTDs and tells me 'connection lost' ...
Lo3d3R MAFIA	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:48:00 - [43] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 25/03/2008 17:23:17 Lo3d3R, good to see that you got your ship back. I was not that lucky last time i lost my Hurricane to desync, because the logs didn't show anything, and i even had 2 different GM's to look at my petition, and both of them couldn't find anything. But desyncs is not easy to find, and it's very rare to find anything in the logs about it, and if they find anything with desyncs, then your very very lucky. So i understand their rules about reimbursing under desyncing. Other than that, the GM's have done an awesome job with my petitions. \0/ I rate your sig 9.9/10 ___________________ Sexy Time:
AndrewRyan Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:55:00 - [44] This smells like a logging a alt in loggoffski gone bad to me. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
nahtoh Bull Industries United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:07:00 - [45] Edited by: nahtoh on 26/03/2008 02:14:37 Originally by: Lo3d3R Edited by: Lo3d3R on 16/03/2008 18:47:23 Originally by: Ephemeron As it happens I have a petition open for a similar case. Currently I have waited 5-6 days, no responce yet. I think because of the patch, petitions will take longer. In your case, you may have to wait more than 7 days. I'm nearly certain that in both our cases, the answer will be "our logs don't show anything wrong". I'm willing to bet 100 mil on that. I know it's hopeless, but I wait for the answer anyway. I this is true my gaming EVE experience will be affected in a very negativ way. It might happen again and again, and then im broke. Lets not jump to conclusions, but I will keep this thread updated. Ephemeron could you elaborate on what happened in your case and possible keep us updated aswell? Als you state you have been waiting for 5 - 6 days, I am currently sitting in a station waiting to get reimbursed... so I might just move on for now. I expect a positiv outcome though, I have been very thorough in describing what happened, also the fact that the events occured on all 3 accounts at the same time must count for something... Only if the problem was down to the eve servers, there was a sticky at the weekend about UK ISPs having problems with a upstream provider. I say 20/80% that you are out of luck. Its not your fault and its not CCPs fault, in fact I would go as far as its not even your ISPs fault... http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=732054&page=1#30 Theres some info, if that was your cause then its out with CCPs control. Oh well I should really have finished the thread...damm it some nimrod necroed the thread...memo to self check date of orig post in future <sighs slinks away but leaves records of his stupidy for all to laugh at> ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
MongWen Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.26 02:55:00 - [46] Originally by: nahtoh Only if the problem was down to the eve servers, there was a sticky at the weekend about UK ISPs having problems with a upstream provider. I say 20/80% that you are out of luck. Its not your fault and its not CCPs fault, in fact I would go as far as its not even your ISPs fault... http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=732054&page=1#30 Theres some info, if that was your cause then its out with CCPs control. Oh well I should really have finished the thread...damm it some nimrod necroed the thread...memo to self check date of orig post in future <sighs slinks away but leaves records of his stupidy for all to laugh at> i think this is the thread you where looking for [Linkage] ------------------------- Vote MongWen For The CMS. ------------------------- Opinions are my opinions. They do not reflect view of UCAM, if it is not stated
nahtoh Bull Industries United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.03.26 03:06:00 - [47] Originally by: MongWen Originally by: nahtoh Only if the problem was down to the eve servers, there was a sticky at the weekend about UK ISPs having problems with a upstream provider. I say 20/80% that you are out of luck. Its not your fault and its not CCPs fault, in fact I would go as far as its not even your ISPs fault... http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=732054&page=1#30 Theres some info, if that was your cause then its out with CCPs control. Oh well I should really have finished the thread...damm it some nimrod necroed the thread...memo to self check date of orig post in future <sighs slinks away but leaves records of his stupidy for all to laugh at> i think this is the thread you where looking for [Linkage] Well you are... 1. Rubbing more salt in my wounds... or 2. Making a bigger twonker of yourself than i did I vote for option 2 ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Drizit FREEDOM FIRST Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.26 05:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Venkul Mul If you were killed by players, I think your chances of being reimbursed are practically zero. Probably you were aggressed before the server detected the DC, so you had the 15 minutes aggression timer before disappearing from space. Edit: - likely reply is "Our logs don't show anything [wort reimbursing]" and effectively the logs will not show when the connection was lost, but only when EVE detected that. Their logs would show no return fire or attempt at evasion. This could just be that the player was AFK. They should also show that an emergency warp was disrupted by the agression timer if their logging methods are worth anything. Coupled with the lack of return fire or evasion, it would easily indicate that the player was DC'd. Although I appreciate that CCP have tried to reduce the amount of network traffic, not having a mutual keep alive ping occasionally seems ridiculous for any game, especially one as heavily PVP orientated. --
Malcolm Gerwulf State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 06:16:00 - [49] Glad to hear that your ship was returned. One quick question for everyone that wants a "keep alive" heart-beat ping between the EVE server and the client: what should be done with people that abuse the disconnect system? I'm sure CCP could easily implement such a feature, but if it instantly made your ship disappear into safety, then almost nobody would lose ships anymore. Would you be limited to 1 logoffski per hour? Per day? Give you ship over to AI control for 30 seconds? I'm curious as to how people would strike a fair balance between legitimate connection failures and people yanking their ethernet cables within the game rules. There's nothing to reimburse in WoW so we need some new ideas.
Amateratsu Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.03.26 09:14:00 - [50] This is not an uncommon error, usually happens if you idle for too long where no data is being transfered between the client and server resulting in the connection dropping without the client noticing untill you try to do something. Most likely you were probed out and killed before the logoff timer expired or possibly even before the server noticed the connection had dropped. Might be worth bug reporting it as there should be a regular ping signal to prevent such unnoticed connection drops from occuring. Good luck with your petition. P.S a trip down memory lane that might cheer you up 2005.06.18 15:08 Victim: Amateratsu Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Under Heavy Fire Destroyed Type: Celestis Solar System: Kubinen System Security Level: 0.4 Involved parties: Name: Lo3d3R (laid the final blow) Security Status: -10.0 Alliance: Force of Evil Corporation: MAFIA Ship Type: Armageddon Weapon Type: Tachyon Beam Laser II

Lo3d3R MAFIA	Posted - 2008.03.26 21:10:00 - [51] Originally by: Amateratsu This is not an uncommon error, usually happens if you idle for too long where no data is being transfered between the client and server resulting in the connection dropping without the client noticing untill you try to do something. Most likely you were probed out and killed before the logoff timer expired or possibly even before the server noticed the connection had dropped. Might be worth bug reporting it as there should be a regular ping signal to prevent such unnoticed connection drops from occuring. Good luck with your petition. P.S a trip down memory lane that might cheer you up 2005.06.18 15:08 Victim: Amateratsu Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Under Heavy Fire Destroyed Type: Celestis Solar System: Kubinen System Security Level: 0.4 Involved parties: Name: Lo3d3R (laid the final blow) Security Status: -10.0 Alliance: Force of Evil Corporation: MAFIA Ship Type: Armageddon Weapon Type: Tachyon Beam Laser II Hi Amateratsu, To cheer me up.. fantastic, thats why I love this game. I'm +2.1 at the moment, and I do not attack anyone with out being attacked first ... ugh. --------- The petition has ended well [read upwards in the thread]. I was not probed out but was hugging a gate and could have jumped out in to a 0.4 sec system whenever I wanted, but due to the desync or disconnestion I never noticed getting attacked and killed . A I understand it, the 'keep alive signal' is not implemented because of the bandwith this would generate. I am still waiting for someone to either have some third party allowed program, or someone that could verify if the for instance using a tool like PingPlotter kan keep the connection alive for your client aswell... Lo3d3R ___________________ Sexy Time:
Zex Maxwell Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2008.03.26 22:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Tintifish Average reponse time? Usually 1-7 days on a reimbursement petition, its really variable. Dont expect anything within 24 hours. Thats CCP for you. Customer support blows hard core. I try not to make it a habit to petition them unless I need to.

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