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Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.02.22 03:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi folks.
I've been asking a lot of questions on the boards recently,, but I keep forgetting the most fundamental question of them all, which is, "How should I skill up?"
I'm a new pilot (under 1 million SP) and what I'd really like to do in the long-term is to make ships or blueprints and sell them. Before I can do that though, I've been told I need datacores as well the capital to make the items I want.
To that end, I'm currently mission running and completing the Blood Stained Stars (Sisters of EVE) mission chain, but I don't know what I'm going to do when I complete it.
Right now, my skills are all over the place because I also wanted to do High-sec planetary interaction (just a slow way to make ISK, for sure) to some degree and have been training some social skills to increase faction standings and ISK output from missions.
You can find an EVEBOARD link with my skill queue through here: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Victor_Stillwater
As always, helpful responses with some explanations would be most useful for me. Thank you! Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
965
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Posted - 2012.02.22 06:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
My own experience with hisec PI has been that you make far more ISK from factory planets than extraction planets. Buy other people's P1, convert them into P2 or higher, then resell back to the market. You'll want a decent hauler (such as an Orca) eventually, but you can make tens of millions of ISK a day from each planet that you are willing to service. Servicing involves dumping off 10k m3 of inputs, then hauling whatever product you have back to market: it's mostly travel time in a fat hauler of some kind.
I would advise you avoid mission-running as an income stream. Grind missions for standings, not income. Once you have the standings, you're done. If you mission-grind for income, you will be stuck grinding missions for income forever.
Don't buy anything for list price. Do not buy from sell orders. Post a reasonable buy order, and wait.
You can start building ships from blueprints before you get particularly old. Just make sure you read the "Manufacturing" section of the Making ISK guide for some advice.
Fly spaceships for fun, not profit :) |
Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.02.22 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hey Mara,
Thanks for the response.
Since I have the skills for some PI anyway, it seems like a good idea. I'll try and read up more on your strategy. :) I just need to figure out how to tell the difference between a factory and an extraction setup and how to make mine purely a factory setuip as I've yet to actually try PI.
I'm hoping to grind standings as well, but from my research, it seems I'll have to travel to non-Gallente space to gain standings related to the best ship-making datacores. Using the agent finder and some info from EVE Uni on that front, but if you have some info I don't I'd appreciate it. :) Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |
Cylide Askald
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
6
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
When I started playing, I wanted this char to be a industial(hauler)/combat hybrid. She is now a dedicated Caldari combat pilot with only rudimentary industry skills left. My whole industry and hauling stuff is now done by an alt.
If you can afford it, I'd look into the possibility of playing two accounts. This way you can have a dedicated mission runner who can e.g. farm standing for your industry alt who can then refine better. Or your industry alt can salvage and loot your missions while the combat pilot is starting the next one already.
At one time I even had a third char for market stuff, but that wasn't really neccesary. ;) I'm running for CSM: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=836203&#post836203 |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance RaVeN Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.02.22 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
The beginning stages of any career are slow, and you don't really start to shine in THAT career for a few weeks or more. I think you are biteing off too much at once, to go in 3 directions right out of the gate.
Suggestion: Pick one skillpath and get youself familiar with the skill descriptions and the process in general. Take those related skills to 3's and 4's for now. It won't take long.
ISK is very important, but FUN is more important. Make sure that your chosen path (paths) is fun and interesting for YOU. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
969
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Posted - 2012.02.22 21:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote:I'm hoping to grind standings as well, but from my research, it seems I'll have to travel to non-Gallente space to gain standings related to the best ship-making datacores. Using the agent finder and some info from EVE Uni on that front, but if you have some info I don't I'd appreciate it. :)
The way to get the data cores you want to invent with is to use ISK and head to the market.
The way to get the ISK is to sell the data cores that are worth the most.
Don't grind the standings to earn the data cores you want, since you're selling yourself short. Let someone else sell themselves short, and profit from their mistake. This is EVE, a harsh, cold universe where capsuleers make their greatest profits from other people's mistakes.
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Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.02.22 21:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Victor Stillwater wrote:I'm hoping to grind standings as well, but from my research, it seems I'll have to travel to non-Gallente space to gain standings related to the best ship-making datacores. Using the agent finder and some info from EVE Uni on that front, but if you have some info I don't I'd appreciate it. :) The way to get the data cores you want to invent with is to use ISK and head to the market. The way to get the ISK is to sell the data cores that are worth the most. Don't grind the standings to earn the data cores you want, since you're selling yourself short. Let someone else sell themselves short, and profit from their mistake. This is EVE, a harsh, cold universe where capsuleers make their greatest profits from other people's mistakes.
This is so out of the box for me as I'm not a business minded person and never thought of it. :D
I LIKE IT! Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |
Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints Assassin Confederacy
38
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Posted - 2012.02.26 17:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
buy every cheap skill book you can use.
Train everything to 3.
Takes little time and will help a ton with mixed style of play.
Take it a step further buy training all 1x multipliers to 5 and training all skills they open up to 3 as well.
It will give you a great base of skills within 2 months that will help even if you specialize later.
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Batelle
HOMELE55
32
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Posted - 2012.02.27 15:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
training industry and training for mission running are two completely different directions. Train for mission/combat skills first, and then train for industry if you still feel like it. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
148
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Heyo Victor
First off - I did the same thing.
I focussed as an industrial pilot with supporting combat skills for entertainment and getting a bit of isk.
A few things to think about:
1) Your attributes - I did most of my early work on a mem/int remap. (yes MEM/int not INT/mem) this had the advantage that it allowed me to work on both industry skills very well (they are mem/int) but also on science skills and on drone skills (mem/per). Thus droneboats are the favoured weapon of the armed industrialist. They just so happen to also make very respectable mission boats. Before you remap I'd say get your ship training and basic gunnery (or missiles if you go with those) done. Support skills will sort themselves out after.
2) It doesn't quite work like you think it does - today I still have good industry skills which I use now and then to provide some support to my corp/alliance but it's not by any means my core activity. I don't regret doing this for an instant as it gave me a very nice in depth view of EVE but it's not what I spend most of my time on (though it provides some nice residual income in a variety of ways).
TL;DR; try things, enjoy them. Then try other things and finally go back to the ones you like the most.
Have fun! |
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Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
12
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Posted - 2012.02.28 01:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's a really bad idea to mix industry and mission running early on. In fact industry early on is a bad idea. Mainly due to the fact that you will lose money on anything you can build early on. If you buy minerals off the market you'll end up with a product worth less than your inputs cost you. You can mine the minerals, but you'll make more just selling the raw minerals early on.
My advice if you don't want to join a corp is to mission with a research corp, and do PI. Get salvaging and destroyers up enough to salvage your missions. (And keep an eye on items that sell for less than their mineral value.) Once you get the research corp up enough to passively get datacores, cheaply use research and mfg solts, and reduce refining tax then industry becomes more viable. The other option is to mine.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_agent http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Research_agent
PS- My advice is to join a corp. You can often get to fleet up with a mission runner doing lvl 3/4 and get to salvage their missions. You can get rep and isk without needing to fly BCs or BS. |
Asura Kai
Khanid Astrogeology Consortium The Empiric Fleet Coalition
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 05:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cyniac wrote:Heyo Victor
First off - I did the same thing.
I focussed as an industrial pilot with supporting combat skills for entertainment and getting a bit of isk.
A few things to think about:
1) Your attributes - I did most of my early work on a mem/int remap. (yes MEM/int not INT/mem) this had the advantage that it allowed me to work on both industry skills very well (they are mem/int) but also on science skills and on drone skills (mem/per). Thus droneboats are the favoured weapon of the armed industrialist. They just so happen to also make very respectable mission boats. Before you remap I'd say get your ship training and basic gunnery (or missiles if you go with those) done. Support skills will sort themselves out after.
2) It doesn't quite work like you think it does - today I still have good industry skills which I use now and then to provide some support to my corp/alliance but it's not by any means my core activity. I don't regret doing this for an instant as it gave me a very nice in depth view of EVE but it's not what I spend most of my time on (though it provides some nice residual income in a variety of ways).
TL;DR; try things, enjoy them. Then try other things and finally go back to the ones you like the most.
Have fun!
Cyniac is right. If you want to do both Industrial and Missioning, Drone/industry is the only way to go. After all you will also need drone skill in your mining barge/exhumer. You can easily breeze through lvl1-3 security mission using drone boat like vexor or myrmidon with drone skill alone without any gunnery skill . (Search battleclinic for droneboat fit.)
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Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.03.06 23:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
[quote=Asura Kai
Cyniac is right. If you want to do both Industrial and Missioning, Drone/industry is the only way to go. After all you will also need drone skill in your mining barge/exhumer. You can easily breeze through lvl1-3 security mission using drone boat like vexor or myrmidon with drone skill alone without any gunnery skill . (Search battleclinic for droneboat fit.)
[/quote]
Thank you for the advice. My skills are currently spread out, but I am training the drone skills so I can perform better and do L2/L3 missions eventually. My aim is to pilot a Vexor given to me by a friend and then eventually move on to a Dominix. :D Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |
Styth spiting
Forged of Fire Behold.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 08:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Industry is easy to get into, simple to start doing somethings, but takes a very long time to be able to sell anything at a profit (Production Efficiency 5 will take you about 12-14 days, which you really need to make a profit manufacturing).
My suggestion would be to train Science V and what ever other skill you will need to V for R&D agents (level 4 agents only if you can). This will get you a steady income/flow of R&D points. This would take roughly 8 days.
After this you could train laboratory Operations 4 in about 2 days. This will now allow you to start making BPC's from BPO's, since Science will give you the fastest copy time, and Lab Op 4 will allow 5 copies to be made at a time.
I'm suggesting that you do this because doing runs of BPC's can take 1 - 2 months to complete (10 - 30 day wait time for station install to be available, plus time for the copy to start). This means in 6 months (or whenever) you could come back to industry you could have a good number of BPC's to get you started as well as have a few hundred million isk worth of R&D points to use.
If you are totally serious about getting into manufacturing Another suggestion would be to stop training on your main character for about 15 days and train up 2 additional characters on your main account (science V, lab ops IV). This way you could have 10 more BPC runs happening, so in 6 months if you came back to it you would have x3 BPC's available. If you really really are serious you could train the characters another 5 - 10 days each so they could each be also generating you R&D points. These R&D points are pretty much free isk at this point (to pay for more BPO's, or do massive manufacturing).
This is exactly what I am doing. Yes I will be losing roughly 25 days training to my main character. But after that 25 days I will have 2 more characters doing PI, generating R&D points, and making copies to use for T2 items (or reselling).
And as someone else said you could always start a second account and do this setup so you don't lose those 25 days. In the long run that loss of 25 days will really pay off though.
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Khanid Voltar
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2012.03.09 01:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:buy every cheap skill book you can use.
Train everything to 3.
Takes little time and will help a ton with mixed style of play.
Take it a step further buy training all 1x multipliers to 5 and training all skills they open up to 3 as well.
It will give you a great base of skills within 2 months that will help even if you specialize later.
This is terrible advice. You will be able to do everything badly, and nothing very well.
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steejans nix
0beron Construct
1
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Posted - 2012.03.13 08:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Khanid Voltar wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote:buy every cheap skill book you can use.
Train everything to 3.
Takes little time and will help a ton with mixed style of play.
Take it a step further buy training all 1x multipliers to 5 and training all skills they open up to 3 as well.
It will give you a great base of skills within 2 months that will help even if you specialize later.
This is terrible advice. You will be able to do everything badly, and nothing very well.
Indeed, it won't give you a great base of skills, it will give you a mess of a skillsheet where you can't do ANYTHING half decently, plus spent a lot of isk on a lot of ships fittings hoping that one is better than the last one you just tried, in a nutshell you'll waste a lot of time isk and more than likely give up on EVE because nothing is any good.
In that 2 months could could have 1 or 2 well skilled useful ships skilled up and having fun, seeing what Eve has to offer. |
Phoenix Jones
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 20:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
You don't have to Max it out. You won't make the "Max isk" you can, but you will make isk. You can get everything going well in about a month or two, the peoples advice here is sound. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
533
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 20:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
As someone that as a rule trains all trainable skills to level 2 to start, I disagree that diversifying is bad.
Diversifying only means you gain equivalent skill slower than someone who specializes. If you can deal with that, then diversifying can be very satisfying because of the choices it opens to you compared to being a specialist.
Keep in mind that the point of EVE is to have FUN! Only you can decide how you want to progress.
Example: My current skills. Currently I'm working on cross-training all other races of ships and turrets. I recently trained all turret skills to level 3 so that I can use any T1 turret, then I trained the support skills to 4 because I was having so much fun with projectiles. Now I want to try Amarr and Gallente, and plan to raise all the turrets to level 4 after that. Then Destroyers 5 and Battlecruisers 5 which I've been avoiding for years, but are still generic skills.
I don't have any immediate plans for T2 turrets, which is mostly what I'm sacrificing by not specializing. Eventually I will train them though. I could also change my mind tomorrow and decide to specialize in any of them. |
Iq Cadaen
Celestial Acquisitions Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2012.04.13 06:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
DO NOT go into R&D agents heavily (at all, really). Devs have stated that R&D agents will stop giving research points or will have the passive component reduced at the minimum (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Making_ISK#Datacores first two links). Not to mention the tedium of grinding up rep for the decent agents.
Also, mining is becoming much more profitable with the removal of Meta0 items from NPC loot tables, the removal of drone alloys and the crack down on botters. This will unfortunately also mean that everything will be very expensive for the foreseeable future. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
8
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Posted - 2012.04.13 18:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I would also advise an even-split Intelligence/Perception map and a more diverse skill set as a beginning industrialist/missioner. The Mem/Int map is far too specialized for someone that new and you have, what, two free remaps before the one that starts the timer? You can easily switch later when you've played a bit and firmly established that this _is_ actually how you want to spend your hobby time. |
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Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.04.14 11:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Some tips from a non industrialist:
1. Mineral prices are going up (and will stabilize at a higher level) which mean that everything derived from minerals (like ships) become more expensive and that profit margins from activities using minerals (like industry) will come under pressure. The activities 'upstream' from minerals (like mining) become more profitable.
2. Mineral come from three sources: drones: nerfed soon, reprocessing mission loot: nerfed soon, mining: hulkageddon soon. What happens when things stabilize isn't known yet and a lot of people are playing the market but mining may be the only viable source of minerals in times to come.
3. What you in eve should be want you want to do. ISK flow is secondary and shouldn't be your focus.
4. If you decide to combine multiple activities, look for synergies. In your case, you could loot wrecks during missions and reprocess them for ore for your industry (nerfed soon) or you grind standings to access datacores (may be nerfed soonish). In the future faction warfare LP may buy you datacores = new synergy.
5. Planetary interaction is quite separate from the conventional industrial cycle. Apart from industrial ships, there isn't a lot of synergy with anything until you start dealing in POS that is.
6. Look for synergy in your skills aswell, train general rather than specialized skills i.e. spacecommand before frigate, mechanics before armor compensation, ...
7. T1 industry is different from T2 industry. I'm not an industrialist but I'ld suggest you learn to understand the former before you think about the latter.
8. Try not to do everything yourself. Focus on certain steps on the process that you wish to compete at and let the market be your friend. E.g. PI from extracting to P3 commodities might be worth it but perhaps the step from P1 to P2 is the most profitable. Focus yourself on that step and buy P1 from the market and sell P2 to the market. Things change and being flexible is nice aswell. Similarly, you can buy datacores or minerals or bpcs if they're cheap and produce yourself OR sell datacores, minerals, bpc's if they're expensive and let someone else produce. It depends what you want to do but if you're doing a lot of steps yourself, the market might be able to lend you a hand.
9. if the future pans out as it is looking now i.e. minerals mostly from mining and datacores from faction warfare LP, you might want to run missions for FW or/and mine minerals to synergize with your industry. At the moment however, FW LP and mining aren't that interesting.
10. Have fun |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
99
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Posted - 2012.04.15 07:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
In general I'd say that for a new player learning enough skills to get by with lvl 4 missions would be a best place to start as it gives you a steady income revenue, albeit a small one in the beginning, to pursue you industrial and other careers. Pure industry character stuff is best left for alts unless you somehow manage to hit the jackpot and can start your industry career without any starting capital (you don't) and i can tell you that sucking roids 23/7 with no other options available will get you in the end. |
Joran Dravius
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.04.16 08:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote:New player trying to mix As a new player training in two areas will make it take twice as long to get decent in either one.
Victor Stillwater wrote:I've been told I need datacores as well the capital to make the items I want. You only need data cores for T2 stuff. T1 stuff just needs minerals. |
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