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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5011
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
UghGǪ a horde of VCs and investors demanding they open the game up for GÇ£the larger audienceGÇ¥ so they can earn more money. No thanks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ceptia Cyna
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:UghGǪ a horde of VCs and investors demanding they open the game up for Gǣthe larger audienceGǥ so they can earn more money. No thanks.
Why? What is your Problem here? |
DeBingJos
T.R.I.A.D
199
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ceptia Cyna wrote:Tippia wrote:UghGǪ a horde of VCs and investors demanding they open the game up for Gǣthe larger audienceGǥ so they can earn more money. No thanks. Why? What is your Problem here?
You don't play a lot of games, do you? Fix FW ! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5014
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ceptia Cyna wrote:Why? What is your Problem here? I quote: GÇ£investors demanding they open the game up for GÇÿthe larger audienceGÇÖGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Alain Kinsella
96
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ceptia Cyna wrote:Why? What is your Problem here? I quote: GÇ£investors demanding they open the game up for GÇÿthe larger audienceGÇÖGÇ¥.
Yep, that.
I continue to be optimistic, but the moment I see aspects of Travian's Gold system appear, I'll start to look elsewhere.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Ceptia Cyna
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.02.22 11:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ceptia Cyna wrote:Why? What is your Problem here? I quote: GÇ£investors demanding they open the game up for GÇÿthe larger audienceGÇÖGÇ¥.
Ok, so what? No problem.
Valentyn3 wrote:[...]So in other words, we would get glowing shoulder pads and mounts for our ships.
More like an "Engine Trail Cosmetic Slot" and a "Ship Hull Paint Slot". |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
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Posted - 2012.02.22 12:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Failed Economics 101 so don't fully understand what an IPO is, can anyone enlighten me.
Also I seem to remeber soemone saying by Icelandic law CCP records must be made public, do I misremember this , if not has anyone ever looked into it further.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 12:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: It's been shown in the past that some VERY rich people play EVE. And were shoveling money into GTC sales that shifted balance of power so much that for a time it looked like one alliance might have been able to "win" EVE. .
I'm kinda new, must have missed that one, could you elaborate for me?
Feel free to PM if you think openly disscusing a sensetive subject may be unwise
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
243
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:CCP going IPO. Interesting but I hope not - not yet anyways. Shareholders have a way of changing the way a company works and maintains/sells its products and services. NEX would be upon us despite any protestations and golden ammo and "I Win" buttons would be for those able and willing to pay real $$$. Yes at that point in time, Eve would "die"
CCP + IPO = dangerous liaisons. CCP already have enough shareholders that can throw their weight around if they chose to. And this possible IPO may be just that. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
316
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Failed Economics 101 so don't fully understand what an IPO is, can anyone enlighten me.
It's not Econ, it's finance. Finance 101 would have covered it.
It's a sale of stock and the first sale, "initial public offering", IPO. CCP sells the shares directly or to an "underwriter". The money they raise from the stock sale is then used to run the business. |
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Failed Economics 101 so don't fully understand what an IPO is, can anyone enlighten me.
It's not Econ, it's finance. Finance 101 would have covered it. It's a sale of stock and the first sale, "initial public offering", IPO. CCP sells the shares directly or to an "underwriter". The money they raise from the stock sale is then used to run the business.
So there isn't stock now and there will be....
or
there is stock but they wnat to make more because they believe there company is undervalued?
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Ursula LeGuinn
139
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:So there isn't stock now and there will be....
There are shares GÇö but they're owned by private investors. Not just anyone can buy into a privately-held company, because the option simply isn't available to the general public.
An IPO means shares will be made available for purchase by the general public.
As for the why of it, an IPO would probably mean more capital for CCP to work with. At the same time, it means less control over who owns shares in the company, and a greater number of shareholders wanting to see their investments grow. "The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community."-áGÇö-áEVElopedia |
Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
42
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:So there isn't stock now and there will be....
or
there is stock but they wnat to make more because they believe there company is undervalued?
There is "stock" now; privately held, not available on an open market, and not easily sold.
An IPO, typically, offer "common" shares with ownership and voting rights in some form or another.
IPO's have nothing to do with "valuation". It's a fundraising alternative to debt (or, in the case of many companies such as Facebook, Groupon, etc., it offers the current owners / venture capitalists a chance to cash out of their initial investment).
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Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
42
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:As for the why of it, an IPO would probably mean more capital for CCP to work with. At the same time, it means less control over who owns shares in the company, and a greater number of shareholders wanting to see their investments grow.
Lets make this as blunt as possible.
66 million in revenue is peanuts.
It really is.
EvE, in itself, is profitable and self sustaining. However EvE is not CCP's only project. If you ever took a look at CCP's basic financials from 2010, it's plainly obvious that the only way CCP can continue to develop Dust 514 and WoD is by using external financing.
They need cash.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1094
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Posted - 2012.02.22 13:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Darrow Hill wrote:Ursula LeGuinn wrote:As for the why of it, an IPO would probably mean more capital for CCP to work with. At the same time, it means less control over who owns shares in the company, and a greater number of shareholders wanting to see their investments grow. Lets make this as blunt as possible. 66 million in revenue is peanuts. It really is. EvE, in itself, is profitable and self sustaining. However EvE is not CCP's only project. If you ever took a look at CCP's basic financials from 2010, it's plainly obvious that the only way CCP can continue to develop Dust 514 and WoD is by using external financing. They need cash. You don't know this for a fact. Either way, whatever CCP decideds to do financially I hope it has a positive outcome for EvE and DUST. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 14:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
So would this open CCP to a hostile takeover ?
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
42
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Posted - 2012.02.22 14:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You don't know this for a fact. Either way, whatever CCP decideds to do financially I hope it has a positive outcome for EvE and DUST.
It's all on the cash flow statement.
With luck, we won't have to wait until July to see the results for 2011.
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2012.02.22 14:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
W1rlW1nd wrote:Gantz Tleilax wrote:The Gonif wrote:
This might seem like an illustration that traditional CCP has already been experimenting with free-to-play in EVE, by allowing rich subscribers to essentially pay for others to play, in exchange for virtual currency GÇö something that has been used by 40,000 people, the company says.
Can someone explain what this means? Rich subscribers paying others to play? "Rich" player pays real money for own subscription, and plex. "Rich" player puts Plex on game market. "Other" player buys Plex in game with fake money, and uses the Plex to extend subscription. Thus, "Rich" player has paid real money for someone else to play, in exchange for fake money to throw around in-game. Yep for all the people I helped to play for free, you are very welcome. Bought $4K in GTC's over the last 3 years.... I get Grind Free ISK, others who can't otherwise afford to play, get to play. Everyone wins... Oh and for those who say "You could have spent that on other things", well I certainly did that too... |
Joe Skellington
Scientific Nano Technologies Institute Jokers Wild.
41
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Posted - 2012.02.22 14:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:CCP please maintain majory stock...
Companies like EA would destroy this company and game if given the chance.
I can see Bobby Kotick licking his liver stained lips anticipating the possibility to destroy another MMO. -á-á |\__/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2012.02.22 14:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Currently, I'm taking macroeconomics in college.
From what I understand, the purpose of a company handing out shares to multiple investors is to limit control of any one investor over the company. So, even if the Goons and the DRF were to compete for control of the majority of the those shares, none will have majority control when the general public becomes involved (too many shareholders to compete with).
Also, if you ask any of the shareholders how they view their position/relationship with the publicly-traded company, they will most likely tell you they don't feel like they got control of the company; therefore, they feel more like investors rather than owners.
Now, I'm not so sure if this is still legal or not, but back in the days there use to be plenty of American companies that incorporated what economists would refer to as a "poison pill policy" when it comes to shareholders. The poison pill policy comes in many forms, but one common form of it was to dilute the value of the shares by pumping new shares into the public as soon as one shareholder even tries to own a certain percentage of available shares. This is meant to discourage any one shareholder from having too much control of the company.
The Board of Directors and the Council of Stellar Management
If CCP Games does decide to file an IPO in the foreseeable future, how will this affect the CSM once a BoD is put together? I worry that with this combination, CCP could face a dilemma that is threefold:
- Chief Executive Officer wanting to use the revenue to improve the company (ie: new equipment, more employees, etc.).
- Chairman of the Board of Directors wanting to use the revenue towards satisfying the shareholders.
- Chairman of the Council of Stellar Management wanting Eve Online to be iterated on or expanded on meant towards satisfying the players who directly elected them.
This could become corporate schizophrenia if CCP files an IPO. ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession*** ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Combat PvP*** |
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Eugene Spencer
Rodents of Unusual Size
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 14:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
I wonder if we, as EVE players, could start a trust where we donate money and the trust buys shares. Perhaps the trust would be managed by the CSM. That would give the CMS a lot more sway, considering it would be a shareholder...
However, I dunno enough about these things to say if that was a ridiculously stupid idea or not. I have a specific comb for my beard. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
223
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
I don't want CCP to go IPO more than anyone else. In fact, I fear it for all the reasons stated by posters before me.
But that doesn't change the fact that they will. They want to grow and they want to develop more games. It is proven by their actions in the past and nothing suggest they have changed their minds. Going IPO will give them the cash to expand without taking up big loans like they have done in the past. Going IPO will reduce the risk of having to lay off staff in the future.
After Crucible CCP has restored faith in their business which increase the likelihood of an imminent IPO.
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Eugene Spencer wrote:I wonder if we, as EVE players, could start a trust where we donate money and the trust buys shares. Perhaps the trust would be managed by the CSM. That would give the CMS a lot more sway, considering it would be a shareholder...
However, I dunno enough about these things to say if that was a ridiculously stupid idea or not.
Several problems with that idea:
1. Who is going to oversee the funds and how do we know we can trust that person? 2. Even if a member of the CSM is assigned to handle it, can we trust that person? 3. Are there mechanisms in place to prevent fraudulent handling of said funds? 4. Will control of the purchased shares be transferred over to the new members of the CSM every year? 5. Do regulations of the market even allow a company to force the owner (or handler) to fork over the shares to his/her replacement? ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession*** ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Combat PvP*** |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
294
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:W1rlW1nd wrote:Gantz Tleilax wrote:The Gonif wrote:
This might seem like an illustration that traditional CCP has already been experimenting with free-to-play in EVE, by allowing rich subscribers to essentially pay for others to play, in exchange for virtual currency GÇö something that has been used by 40,000 people, the company says.
Can someone explain what this means? Rich subscribers paying others to play? "Rich" player pays real money for own subscription, and plex. "Rich" player puts Plex on game market. "Other" player buys Plex in game with fake money, and uses the Plex to extend subscription. Thus, "Rich" player has paid real money for someone else to play, in exchange for fake money to throw around in-game. Yep for all the people I helped to play for free, you are very welcome. Bought $4K in GTC's over the last 3 years.... I get Grind Free ISK, others who can't otherwise afford to play, get to play. Everyone wins...Oh and for those who say "You could have spent that on other things", well I certainly did that too...
I don't really understand how 3rd party GTC transactions work, I know there are sites that sell them, but how do they aquire them and whats in it for them?
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
227
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Razin wrote:Jhagiti Tyran wrote:Thorn Galen wrote:CCP going IPO. Interesting but I hope not - not yet anyways. Shareholders have a way of changing the way a company works and maintains/sells its products and services. NEX would be upon us despite any protestations and golden ammo and "I Win" buttons would be for those able and willing to pay real $$$. Yes at that point in time, Eve would "die"
CCP + IPO = dangerous liaisons. CCP already have enough shareholders that can throw their weight around if they chose to. And this possible IPO may be just that.
Good point, either the current investors are unwilling to spend any more or they want to increase the value of what they already own. |
Eugene Spencer
Rodents of Unusual Size
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Quote:1. Who is going to oversee the funds and how do we know we can trust that person?
From my experience of Trusts (I was a chairman of a not for profit trust), you must write a constitution setting out the intentions and rules of the trust. In that constitution, you would say something like "the shares and any profits belong to the trust, not the individual members of the trust". So you set out all the rules of what happens. You could have the trust separate from the CSM but with a rule like "the CSM must use the trust for influence".
Quote:2. Even if a member of the CSM is assigned to handle it, can we trust that person?
Perhaps it could be done voluntarily by someone with appropriate experience within the community. Accounts could be audited independently to ensure it's all above board. Or the trust could just pay for a professional to manage it. Just thinking out loud on this one!
Quote:3. Are there mechanisms in place to prevent fraudulent handling of said funds?
Yeah - the law. Different countries have different laws and you'd set the trust up in the country with the most suitable laws for the trust.
Quote:4. Will control of the purchased shares be transferred over to the new members of the CSM every year?
5. Do regulations of the market even allow a company to force the owner (or handler) to fork over the shares to his/her replacement?
No, as above, the shares belong to the Trust, not the CSM. Nothing would need to be transferred.
I have a specific comb for my beard. |
The Snowman
Aliastra Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm not sure this will be a good investment, to be quite honest.
Apart from the eve link, which I dont think console players will really understand, I cant see why dust would even be that successful.
it will land, it will be buggy and laggy, the next Modern warfare will release or battle field and players will move on. They dont stick with one game.
And they certainly wont pay -ú80.00 for a monacle. |
0oO0oOoOo0o
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kewl ! If i buy a couple of shares, i want more attention to my proposal in the ideas forum by ccp !! |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:The Board of Directors and the Council of Stellar ManagementIf CCP Games does decide to file an IPO in the foreseeable future, how will this affect the CSM once a BoD is put together? I worry that with this combination, CCP could face a dilemma that is threefold:
- Chief Executive Officer wanting to use the revenue to improve the company (ie: new equipment, more employees, etc.).
- Chairman of the Board of Directors wanting to use the revenue towards satisfying the shareholders.
- Chairman of the Council of Stellar Management wanting Eve Online to be iterated on or expanded on meant towards satisfying the players who directly elected them.
This could become corporate schizophrenia if CCP files an IPO. current CCP BoD is:
Vilhj+ílmur +Porsteinsson (chairman) - Meson Holding S.A. David Fialkow - Teno Investments S.+ü.R.L Birgir M+ír Ragnarsson - NP ehf, Novator ehf. Sigur+¦ur +ôlafsson - ex- CCP marketing manager, now working for Novator Partners LLP Steve Wieck - White Wolf co-founder Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson - CCP CEO
4 of 6 BoD seats are already in the hand of investors and a VC, that ratio would probably not change substantially post-IPO. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3248
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 15:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gantz Tleilax wrote:The Gonif wrote:
This might seem like an illustration that traditional CCP has already been experimenting with free-to-play in EVE, by allowing rich subscribers to essentially pay for others to play, in exchange for virtual currency GÇö something that has been used by 40,000 people, the company says.
Can someone explain what this means? Rich subscribers paying others to play?
Somone who originally wrote the article doesnt understand PLEX.
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