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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:13:00 -
[1]
Now that you're all fired up and ready to flame me, please check out this Curse setup and poke holes in it.
But before I unveil The Ultimate Curse in all it's awesomeness I feel I should preface it with a few things before you all laugh at me for fitting a rocket launcher (yes, stop laughing):
I know how to use energy weapons to devastating effect - post NOS nerf.I've seen what a single rocket launcher with defenders can do to a missile boat's DPS. And with the tracking disruptor to take care of turrets and my drones to kill their drones, missiles are really the only damage vulnerability shy of a DD. Thus defenders.I've never flown this setup in game, it's pure mastubatory EFT play at this point.I realize trying to shield tank a T2 amarr ship is loltastic, but with lows full of speed mods, I don't have a choice.I don't know squat about tracking disruptors since they're used so rarely. Is one enough to screw up a cruiser's guns? Ok, now that you're really ready to flame and ridicule, here's the fit. Please be brutal:
[Curse, The Ultimate Curse] Power Diagnostic System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption Invulnerability Field II (A single officer mod here - an Estamel's Invuln - would make for a pretty ridiculous tank, but at an equally ridiculous price.) Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Defender I
Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Hammerhead II x5 Hammerhead II x2 Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5 Hobgoblin II x5
With my current skills (plus Amarr Cruiser V which I don't even have yet): 3140 m/s 224 DPS - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Batelle
HOMELESS. Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:18:00 -
[2]
lose a shield extender for a cap booster
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Batelle lose a shield extender for a cap booster
I almost told you to stfu, but I came up with a scenario in my head where it would be helpful.
Thx. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Lithalnas
Headcrabs
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:26:00 -
[4]
Quote: 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Defender I
fail? defenders dont work. -------------
fixed for greater eve content |
Avalira
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Xaen it's pure mastubatory EFT play
lol, that's taking EFT warrioring to a whole new level...
# I don't know squat about tracking disruptors since they're used so rarely. Is one enough to screw up a cruiser's guns? -> They now also effect falloff, so they are good against all guns these days. The trick is to notice what type of guns the target is using and then use the correct script for the gun type. For long range weapons use tracking and for short range guns use range while trying to orbit outside of his range (might take some trial and error). It's easier said than done though, especially with multiple ships.
Just a question though, why not fit a T2 rocket launcher? You could also keep some rage rockets for a tiny bit of extra DPS against faster targets or drones. Just don't forget to unload them due to their cap or speed malice.
Interesting setup, would be nice to have some TQ testing feedback ;) -------------
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Annestra Karr
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:19:00 -
[6]
I fly alot of Curse set-ups and Well Sorry - "Friend"; If you fit this ship in combat......
Pop Goes the Pod!! (IMHO - you may be able to nano but you have no other use with this set-up)
Usually the only flame I get on my set-up's is I fit a Cloak. I end up wandering @ 0.0 alot so I find in helpfull. You just have to pick your targets.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lithalnas
Quote: 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Defender I
fail? defenders dont work.
I bet you don't even have the skill trained. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:39:00 -
[8]
Actually, I've considered nano/nos/active shield tank, but I don't know if it would really work too well.
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Last Wolf
Templars of Space Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xaen I've never flown this setup in game, it's pure mastubatory EFT play at this point.
Sums this post up quite nicely.
Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
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Skyblue
Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:41:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Skyblue on 17/03/2008 19:41:32 3x Heavy Missile Launchers w/ Faction missiles FTW. Also you may even kill something if drones feck up.
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Last Wolf
Templars of Space Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Actually, I've considered nano/nos/active shield tank, but I don't know if it would really work too well.
-Liang
kinda like a mini Sleipnir except with nos and drones instead of guns. Hmmmm could be interesting.
Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
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Perfect Diamond
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:43:00 -
[12]
The big census is that they don't work. At least not unless you have great numbers of them. 1 missile launcher using defenders won't work. The rate of fire is to slow and the damage they do to incoming missiles is to little to do anything worth noting.
Get 5 or 6 on there and then it might do something but then you don't have any neutralizers.
Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race. |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avalira They now also effect falloff, so they are good against all guns these days. The trick is to notice what type of guns the target is using and then use the correct script for the gun type. For long range weapons use tracking and for short range guns use range while trying to orbit outside of his range (might take some trial and error). It's easier said than done though, especially with multiple ships.
I knew it affected falloff now, but thanks for the advice. I intend to stay more than web range away from any given ship if possible, so I'm not too worried about short range stuff. The initial setup included dual disruptors, but I figured having a ton more hitpoints would really mean the difference between popping and not for when I inevitably get called primary for being in a Curse - even if my resists are garbage.
Originally by: Avalira Just a question though, why not fit a T2 rocket launcher? You could also keep some rage rockets for a tiny bit of extra DPS against faster targets or drones. Just don't forget to unload them due to their cap or speed malice.
Mostly it's that I just don't have the skills for T2 rockets, but it wouldn't make a lot of difference. The way I figure it, anything small enough to worth shooting rockets at is going to be one of two things: an interceptor or drone(s). If the former is actually a threat I can hit it with dual neuts and watch it fall far behind as I nano away. If it's drones I I'll sic my own drones on them. At least that's the current plan, but as with all plans, once the fighting starts they all go to hell, so we'll see. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Last Wolf
Templars of Space Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond The big census is that they don't work. At least not unless you have great numbers of them. 1 missile launcher using defenders won't work. The rate of fire is to slow and the damage they do to incoming missiles is to little to do anything worth noting.
Get 5 or 6 on there and then it might do something but then you don't have any neutralizers.
TBH, anything more than 1 launcher with defenders is useless. Even if you have 8 launchers with defenders, you'd only cut a kestrel's DPS by 25%... because all 8 defenders will go for the same missile.
Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Last Wolf
Originally by: Xaen I've never flown this setup in game, it's pure mastubatory EFT play at this point.
Sums this post up quite nicely.
FYI, the sky is also blue. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond The big census is that they don't work. At least not unless you have great numbers of them. 1 missile launcher using defenders won't work. The rate of fire is to slow and the damage they do to incoming missiles is to little to do anything worth noting.
Get 5 or 6 on there and then it might do something but then you don't have any neutralizers.
Last I checked (admittedly it has been a while) A single defender could kill a cruise missile.
The Rocket launcher fires a missile every 2.5 seconds a conservative wild estimate says that would be enough to knock a slow (cruise or slower) firing rate missile boat's DPS down 10-35%. That's not insignificant. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:03:00 -
[17]
Wow, I expected more flames for this one. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Stoffl
Free Mercenaries Union Red Republic
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Stoffl on 18/03/2008 13:35:03 Edited by: Stoffl on 18/03/2008 13:17:02
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Perfect Diamond The big census is that they don't work. At least not unless you have great numbers of them. 1 missile launcher using defenders won't work. The rate of fire is to slow and the damage they do to incoming missiles is to little to do anything worth noting.
Get 5 or 6 on there and then it might do something but then you don't have any neutralizers.
Last I checked (admittedly it has been a while) A single defender could kill a cruise missile.
The Rocket launcher fires a missile every 2.5 seconds a conservative wild estimate says that would be enough to knock a slow (cruise or slower) firing rate missile boat's DPS down 10-35%. That's not insignificant.
*Update* Pwnt by Brea Lafail Im sorry. I was thinking of launchers affecting missile velocity.
Anyway, even with multiple Assault Launchers you have problems popping "closerange" missiles around 20km. Popping cruises from Sniping-Ravens will work though.
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Diomidis
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:26:00 -
[19]
Actually is a nice setup IMHO... Nice Base for improvement at least...
I've flown similar nano-fits with dual LSE II... Variations included 2x hards or 1x invu + 1x Balmer TD
Highs where 1x NOS + 1x Neut. Nos indented for perma-running the MWD, Neut can be pulsed just to break that critical cap % that sustains your opponents cap. Rest where 3x named HMLs...
Swaping 1x HML with a Rocket launcher + defenders with that super ROF is one of the best ideas I've ever heard - maybe it's just me Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Brea Lafail
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Stoffl Problem is, a Defender fired from a rocket launcher won't have enough travel time to destroy incoming missiles. Use Standard / Assault-Missile Launchers.
Last I checked, the kind of launcher you use doesnt change the missiles flight time. I am fairly certain of this, actually.
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P'uck
Ravenclaw Manufacturing DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:29:00 -
[21]
one thing why i personally HATE using defenders is...
the moment you dont have any hostile missiles around, the launcher deactivates. woopdee-****in-doo, micromanaging defenders ftl.
now IF (ffs) they would auto-fire once you turn them on, everytime a hostile missile is in range, i might reconsider.
atm nothing will convince me there isnt something better to put in that highslot.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2008.03.18 13:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stoffl Problem is, a Defender fired from a rocket launcher won't have enough travel time to destroy incoming missiles.
Hmm? The launcher does not affect the missile's own stats. Defenders have a flight time of 10s + skills, regardless of what tube they were launched from. The only real drawback to using them from a rocket launcher is the RL's limited capacity - you can fit 10 defenders in a RL II, or 7 in a tech 1/named launcher. Still, against a single ship, this should be enough to take out one missile per salvo, perhaps missing a salvo every now and then while reloading.
My only major gripe with this setup is the two NOS. I'm aware that one NOS can be useful if your primary is cap-boosted and/or there are other enemies to use as batteries, but two is probably pushing it. You cryptically say that "I know how to use energy weapons to devastating effect - post NOS nerf," so I'm not going to write them off out of hand, but I'd be surprised if that second NOS is going to do anything to justify its use above something else in the high slots. Personally, I like having a small neut that I can use to keep a target bottomed-out while they're empty (short cycle time + relatively low cap use = win in this situation).
Three shield mods seems like it might be excessive; especially considering you can switch one of them for a second tracking disruptor. I guess it all depends on how well your defenders cut down missile ship DPS, and (possibly more relevant) how well a single tracking disruptor can mess up turret ships. If you find that one TD works well enough against turrets, and you are comfortable engaging missile ships, then this setup seems to be the way to go. Me, I'd probably feel better with a second TD - but then I'd primarily be looking at turreted targets and passing up the missile ships. Bear in mind that since this is a nano setup you shouldn't be taking damage from missiles larger than light, so I'm not sure 2 LSEs + an invuln would be required. Definitely needs some testing to see what works best/what you can get away with in different situations.
Oh, and again the lack of cap booster would make me a little nervous, but then if you can make those two NOS worth their while you should have plenty of cap to play with, so this ties back into the first point.
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Bahhs Deep
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lithalnas
Quote: 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Defender I
fail? defenders dont work.
no, you fail. Defenders work. Saved my arse several times with just one rocket launcher and defs.
The only time they don't work very well is when the missiles are being shot at you from less than 10km.
A stealth bomber will lose virtually all DPS to one launcher if he is firing from long range. Fire one def, wait for it to pop a missile, fire another, pop, fire, pop.
You say fail...I say win.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bahhs Deep
Originally by: Lithalnas
Quote: 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Defender I
fail? defenders dont work.
no, you fail. Defenders work. Saved my arse several times with just one rocket launcher and defs.
The only time they don't work very well is when the missiles are being shot at you from less than 10km.
A stealth bomber will lose virtually all DPS to one launcher if he is firing from long range. Fire one def, wait for it to pop a missile, fire another, pop, fire, pop.
You say fail...I say win.
Seconded. At 10km+ defenders are almost 100% effective. This is just the first ship with a missile launcher I've had in a while that might need defense against missiles and had a launcher that it didn't need for DPS.
About the only other ship I'd use defenders on is the megathron, but only if you're sniping with it. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Drek Grapper
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:45:00 -
[25]
Calling your ship the 'The Ultimate Curse' without a question mark and not having even flown the bloody thing is a bit rich don'tcha think? --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
Jaketh Ivanes
Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:46:00 -
[26]
Interresting setup, I like it.
But why the armor maintenance drones? You can't send them on yourself, or has that changed lately?
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Terianna Eri
FMP Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 14:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Interresting setup, I like it.
But why the armor maintenance drones? You can't send them on yourself, or has that changed lately?
Probably to repair his own drones outside of combat, if I had to guess. And they're generally useful to have in gangs. __________________________________
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Drek Grapper Calling your ship the 'The Ultimate Curse' without a question mark and not having even flown the bloody thing is a bit rich don'tcha think?
I think ya missed the tone of the OP. It's very sarcastic. I figured the name combined with "this is pure EFT warrior fu" would give it away. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xaen on 18/03/2008 15:16:06
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Interresting setup, I like it.
But why the armor maintenance drones? You can't send them on yourself, or has that changed lately?
Probably to repair his own drones outside of combat, if I had to guess. And they're generally useful to have in gangs.
It's for repairing whatever I feel like, drones, friendlies, asteriods...
They're just generally useful to have. Any drone ship pilot that has the room to spare and doesn't bring them is just silly.
edit: I can't type - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Drek Grapper
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.18 15:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Drek Grapper Calling your ship the 'The Ultimate Curse' without a question mark and not having even flown the bloody thing is a bit rich don'tcha think?
I think ya missed the tone of the OP. It's very sarcastic. I figured the name combined with "this is pure EFT warrior fu" would give it away.
Meh...you seemed so sure you were gonna get flamed, i don't fly the ship and i didn't want to let you down. --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
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