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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 38 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:05:00 -
[1]
Do you see yourself as an advisor? Are you able to sit with the lead designers within CCP and eloquently discuss changes you feel would benefit players within EVE Online?
Xhagen introduces this new blog to advise the player base on how the Council of Stellar Management will be elected and what will be expected from them in the coming months. Please note that it is important that you are 100% sure that you will be able to commit to the itinerary within the blog before you apply. Obviously disasters may happen that could force you to become unavailable, however, this role will give the players a voice within CCP and only dedicated candidates should apply.
To see if this position is for you, read the Council of Stellar Management Blog.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
Hug-A-Wrangler! FanFest 2008
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." |
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Jameroz
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:30:00 -
[2]
Let the race begin!
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ndal
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:45:00 -
[3]
This sounds like an nice Idea. I hope it works out. It would be nice to see it up and running.
Now on with the race.
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Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:46:00 -
[4]
Nice -
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Sha'rone
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.18 16:48:00 -
[5]
Nice idea...
However all that will happen is some players from the major alliances, who will have major vote backing, will end up with a 3 day holiday in Iceland.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 18/03/2008 17:37:16
Originally by: Sha'rone Nice idea...
However all that will happen is some players from the major alliances, who will have major vote backing, will end up with a 3 day holiday in Iceland.
That might be, but they (the elected players) will still have to think globally (EVE speaking). Will that not benefit all?
Update: corrected my spelling ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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ForceM
POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ForceM on 18/03/2008 17:43:59
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Hug-A-Wrangler! FanFest 2008
Dude .. thats just ... scarry!!! -----
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.03.18 17:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 18/03/2008 17:48:41 Hi Xhagen.
I was unable to find any guidelines for campaigns. Are those who put in an application, allowed to spread the word trough the forums, have discussions in here, and that kind of stuff. Or are applications not allowed to discuss their entrance until the voting period?
EDIT: Is there also an age limit, i.e 18 years, in order to go for council?
Im excited to see this, and i wish everybody good luck.
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John Whorfin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:04:00 -
[9]
What happened to the player council's intended function as an oversight committee to verify CCP's internal auditting processes that supposedly prevent dev and insider cheating?
You know, the reason the whole thing was supposed to exist in the first place, so that players that uncover cheating are an official organization that aren't going to be banned for exposing it?
(Also, I love that I still have to log in six times to post anything. Awesome web coding.)
Eve Online: So cut throat that even the officially organized alliance tournaments will screw over players |
Virtuozzo
IRON Tech Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 18/03/2008 17:37:16Update: corrected my spelling
Don't worry about your spelling :P
It is refreshing to see these things in EVE, only good things can come from a philosopher at the helm :-) Kudos.
CAOD FTW.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Hi Xhagen.
I was unable to find any guidelines for campaigns. Are those who put in an application, allowed to spread the word trough the forums, have discussions in here, and that kind of stuff. Or are applications not allowed to discuss their entrance until the voting period?
We did not place any guidelines for the campaign, the method or the place for a reason. We are only putting up the framework for the CSM, what happens around it is up to those who decide to run for candidacy. So to answer your question, it is all up to you and how you want to do it. As long it does not violate the EULA or the TOS.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
EDIT: Is there also an age limit, i.e 18 years, in order to go for council?
Im excited to see this, and i wish everybody good luck.
You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
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EVE Online CCP Games |
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Helison
Times of Ancar Pure.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:49:00 -
[12]
The prenerf is strong here. I really donŠt like the 7-day waiting time and the restriction of communication between CSM and CCP to 2 times per term. This makes it nearly impossible to deal with any urgent matters. I really hoped, that the CSM might help to avoid threadnoughts, but I think this hope is for nothing.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 18:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: John Whorfin What happened to the player council's intended function as an oversight committee to verify CCP's internal auditting processes that supposedly prevent dev and insider cheating?
You know, the reason the whole thing was supposed to exist in the first place, so that players that uncover cheating are an official organization that aren't going to be banned for exposing it?
(Also, I love that I still have to log in six times to post anything. Awesome web coding.)
The revival of the CSM was in part thought of in that manner yes, but with its current setup it does so much more. All the incidents of misconducts have been handled by CCP out in the open and detailed dev blogs have been posted about that. We believe that way to be more efficient and more transparent way of handling things.
If the elected Council wants to talk to the head of Internal Affairs I will make that happen. Simple. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Helison The prenerf is strong here. I really donŠt like the 7-day waiting time and the restriction of communication between CSM and CCP to 2 times per term. This makes it nearly impossible to deal with any urgent matters. I really hoped, that the CSM might help to avoid threadnoughts, but I think this hope is for nothing.
You are then automatically assuming that CCP will not contact the council members looking for assistance or a meeting.
Secondly, 7 days are not a 'waiting' period but to make sure that the matter can be discussed without it being rushed, half formed or partially thought up to the CSM. Waiting means inactivity. Those 7 days could be spent in inactivity, but that would probably never get you anywhere. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:19:00 -
[15]
Shouldn't you limit the number of applicant's somehow, for example like it's done in rl sometimes, an applicant need 100 people signing for him, in order to become a candidate. If just everyone can apply, we maybe get something like 700 applicants to chose from, and the winners will have 0.7-1.9% of the eve playerbase voting for them.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Shouldn't you limit the number of applicant's somehow, for example like it's done in rl sometimes, an applicant need 100 people signing for him, in order to become a candidate. If just everyone can apply, we maybe get something like 700 applicants to chose from, and the winners will have 0.7-1.9% of the eve playerbase voting for them.
I think its important for the voters, that the candidate they pick, is one they can trust, and work for what they believe in.
As such, i think we could see that we will have 10-20 candidates, who get a majority of the vote, while the rest gets a small minority.
Its all about exposure. And one of the inherit flaws of eve in general, is that you need A LOT of people, to do anything really. This very same thing is true for this.
But you also have to remember that depending on the size of a group of people, different types of system is needed. If we look at RL, we have Denmark, where the amount of votes a party gets, that same % amount is the amount of seats they get in government. But in the UK you have the first past the post system, where the majority single-handedly gets full control, making a strong government.
The reason why the proportional election system works in Denmark, is that they have a considerably smaller amount of citizens, so its easier to represents minorities.
But in the UK you will see that due to the big amount of citizens, its much harder to represent minorities. Thus, its better to represent none than only few.
I believe that the amount of seats in the CSM as it is now, or at least the way they are distributd as it seems, probably isnt the best way. But then again, CCP can only bring so many people to Iceland, and we will see more problems spawn if we have a council of 20 people. So its really hard, and im confident that CCP in the future will make this thing even better.
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Latex Sandals
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:43:00 -
[17]
What steps will be taken to prevent one alliance, say with 5k members and a history of mobilising member participation, from dominating the nominations and voting?
And no, if one power block did dominate the council they do not have to think globally. They could use this council as a platform to present themselves as the player's representative when they are nothing of the sort. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.18 19:44:00 -
[18]
This shall be interesting. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.2 |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tarminic This shall be interesting.
Yes, i want to see people paying election agencies, who place cans with goodies at gates with a message like "vote xxx". Or election tourings: the one who runs for a seat will travel from system to system and talk to the locals, trying to persuade them to vote for him, while his election team writes eve-mails etc. Forum campaigns, buying ads at eve tv (oh wait there is none) and eve radio - might get interesting ... maybe someon can make some kind of surveys/opinionpolls to see who is leading etc, and ofc. BIG should not miss to open bets on the winners.
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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:23:00 -
[20]
Welcome back Xhagen, glad to see your project moving forward.
Like Tarminic said, this could get interesting...
I am glad to see Proxy Voting was dropped in what seems to be the final draft, and while I don't agree with term limits, I understand the reasoning (I would rather have voters limit terms)...
On the point of large alliances having the ability to guarantee a member on the Council, if they have enough votes, they should have representation... if they choose to split their vote to attempt to pack the council then it would be up to us (the rest of the voters) to stop them... and in splitting their support, they may in fact be giving up any representation...
I do wonder about Eligibility, if I (Hamfast) am running (I am not planning to run at this time), I must prove to CCP that I am the one and only me... that is all well and good... and if Hamfast and the 2 Alts (Hamslow and Ham Notsofast) on this account have done nothing wrong (no bans, no warnings, no problems) then I would be eligible to run... but what about that other account I used to have... the one I closed a year ago with the character (and account) banned for being rude in church and dressing in funny colors (I am making this part up... really, I am...) would I lose that eligibility and will CCP be checking for that ineligibility?
I look forward to the start of the campaigns. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Latex Sandals What steps will be taken to prevent one alliance, say with 5k members and a history of mobilising member participation, from dominating the nominations and voting?
It's hard to say how this will pan out, but hopefully the fact that there are nine seats is enough to dilute the influence of any one specific power bloc.
5000 members is still a small portion of the playerbase, and a group cannot field too many serious candidates without diluting their vote advantage and running the risk of none of them getting a seat.
Now the fact that there are many of these organized entities, and they'll usually tend to have broadly the same interests, is maybe a slightly more serious problem.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Vrikshaka
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:36:00 -
[22]
In order to ensure that the interests of Eve's three major zones (hisec, lowsec, 0.0) are equally represented, you should reserve a certain number of player representative spots for each zone.
Lowsec should have at least one representative guaranteed in the CSM (10% of Eve inhabitants, according to QEN demographics). This player should have to be -10.0
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:36:00 -
[23]
CCP,
In the first phase where you are calling for applications what rules people out? IE: How is the selection being cropped? Thanks
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:41:00 -
[24]
If they have broadly the same interests then what is the issue? Isn't the point of the CSM to address these issues?
And, as it stands there are only a few key components of the game that can be brought up, all of which most everyone is interested in.
They are:
Usability[U.I. etc] Sovereignty Mechanics Space Quality[And all things pve] General Ship Balance New Features
It would be nearly impossible with the small player blocks to be able to really organize an effort to steer CCP towards an outcome that would benefit any specific player block in the game.
Everyone is interested in general ship balance, and there are no racial blocks of which you can really speak. Everyone in 0.0 is interested in having fun sovereignty mechanics. Everyone in the game is interested in space Quality, and Usability. And most everyone is interested in how new features play out.
Yea, i just can't see it happening.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 20:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Shouldn't you limit the number of applicant's somehow, for example like it's done in rl sometimes, an applicant need 100 people signing for him, in order to become a candidate. If just everyone can apply, we maybe get something like 700 applicants to chose from, and the winners will have 0.7-1.9% of the eve playerbase voting for them.
Originally by: Sgt Napalm
CCP,
In the first phase where you are calling for applications what rules people out? IE: How is the selection being cropped? Thanks
I'm answering you two together, as this is the same question. And the answer is: We are not doing anything to 'cropped' or 'limit' the number of applications. The main reason for that is I can not see a fair or a just way to put a limit up. The criteria will always be an arbitrary one, decided upon by us, no matter what it might turn out to be. And us putting up a criteria goes against what we want to achieve with the CSM.
If there will be an overwhelming number of applicants, that is something we will have to address when the time comes should it be needed. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hamfast
Welcome back Xhagen, glad to see your project moving forward.
...
I do wonder about Eligibility, if I (Hamfast) am running (I am not planning to run at this time), I must prove to CCP that I am the one and only me... that is all well and good... and if Hamfast and the 2 Alts (Hamslow and Ham Notsofast) on this account have done nothing wrong (no bans, no warnings, no problems) then I would be eligible to run... but what about that other account I used to have... the one I closed a year ago with the character (and account) banned for being rude in church and dressing in funny colors (I am making this part up... really, I am...) would I lose that eligibility and will CCP be checking for that ineligibility?...
Thank you Hamfast , it is good to be back.
And about the eligibility. Mainly, and one can consider it our rule of thumb; if you have access to EVE, we are eligible to participate.
The reasoning behind this view is as follows: If you were marked as 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' (meaning that you personally would be banned from EVE, not just your account where the infraction occurred) you wouldn't be writing on this forum. Should you be 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' and you would be writing on the forums, you would be reported to the Game Masters and they would handle the matter in accordance to policy. All cases of the severity resulting in a personal ban from EVE are very well documented and logged and spotting those players is a very easy job. Especially me being an ex-GM, knowing all the tricks.
I hope this answers the question. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Reptzo
Master Miners Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 18/03/2008 20:36:46
Originally by: Latex Sandals What steps will be taken to prevent one alliance, say with 5k members and a history of mobilising member participation, from dominating the nominations and voting?
It's hard to say how this will pan out, but hopefully the fact that there are nine seats is enough to dilute the influence of any one specific power bloc.
5000 members is still a small portion of the playerbase, and a group cannot field too many serious candidates without diluting their vote advantage and running the risk of none of them getting a seat.
Now the fact that there are many of these organized entities, and they'll usually tend to have broadly the same interests, is maybe a slightly more serious problem. edit: But not one I see any way around, nor do I know of any representative democracy or political scientist that has done so.
I agree, it will be hard for any one group to take control of the council. Another thing that will prevent total abuse is that people are running under their real names. Their real identities, not their in game alias. People tend to be much more well rounded when they have their real life reputation at stake. It is easy to be obnoxious and unreasonable in game, it can even help reach your goals. But in real life, if your an obnoxious idiot, people aren't going to follow you, or even like you.
Also, the council doesn't have any real power, so CCP will just do what they always do. Thank the player base for their input, and then do what they were going to do anyways. Or wait a year then do what the players wanted.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/03/2008 21:13:58
So, basically, all you need is to be popular and/or respected in the EVE community somehow, have a valid passport and a bit of free time. ...and if you're sparing with your "desires", might not even have to spend any money... hey, is "free beer" included in the "food and lodgings" thingie ?
Quote: A council of nine player Representatives will be democratically elected by EVE players
So... how EXACTLY will this vote go anyway ? Is it on a "per account" basis ? "Per character" ? Per uniquely identifiable person ? And how exactly will you go around doing that ? I can see a lot of... potential problems. And what about "voting fraud" issues ? Or simple matters like, say, buying votes ? Or worse, voter indifference ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
Reptzo
Master Miners Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
... Or worse, voter indifference ?
Personally, I think this will be the biggest problem, getting people to care enough to vote in the first place.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Verone on 18/03/2008 21:20:44
Would it be possible to have someone look at the applcation page?
Hitting the "Register" Button brings up the following :
Quote: 500 - Internal Error
The server was unable to process your request.
Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
œ Back
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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Elve Sorrow
Shinra Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:21:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:30:00 -
[32]
Why are names being made public? Surely this is not a requirement to run, since everyone is going to be running essentially on their eve persona. I understand the reason to disclose name, but not a reason to make it public.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:30:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/03/2008 21:31:41
Oh, hell... my passport expired 5 months ago, and I never bothered renewing it since I had no intention of travelling OUTSIDE the EU. You DO need a passport to go to Iceland if you're a citizen of an EU member state, right ? I mean, Iceland is not in the EU, just in the European "trade" zone.
Damn... now I have to go renew my old one for no good reason other than a highly unlikely opportunity to go to Iceland. Hmmm... can we apply for the election with an expired passport (or just an EU-state identity card) scan, and get a new passport only if actually needed ? That is, if we (and by "we" I mean "I") get elected ?
Originally by: Goumindong Why are names being made public? Surely this is not a requirement to run, since everyone is going to be running essentially on their eve persona. I understand the reason to disclose name, but not a reason to make it public.
What, do you believe there will be no press coverage of this ? And the CSM members won't be quoted (with real names) in some of the news-items ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:31:00 -
[34]
Is there a chance these meetings will be recorded and available via webcast or EveTV? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
No it doesn't.
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TornSoul
BIG Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:35:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba BIG should not miss to open bets on the winners.
Hehe - Good idea.
I think I'll pass on this first one though - To better get an idea how the setup works.
(Unless of course I get really bored one night... )
But for term 2, I'll definatly consider it
BIG Lottery |
Elve Sorrow
Shinra Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
No it doesn't.
It did when i applied to the volunteers, passed every interview and then someone realised i wasnt 18.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
No it doesn't.
An NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) is a legally binding document.
You have to be the age of consent in the country that the NDA is written for (country of origin for the company it applies to) before you can sign it.
In this case, you have to be 18.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Verone Edited by: Verone on 18/03/2008 21:20:44
Would it be possible to have someone look at the applcation page?
Hitting the "Register" Button brings up the following :
Quote: 500 - Internal Error
The server was unable to process your request.
Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
œ Back
Hi sir. I'm a support personnel! I manage to get this error when I try and upload a file of the incorrect type. Would that be the case here? Notice how you can only upload .gif, .jpg, .png.
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EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
No it doesn't.
An NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) is a legally binding document.
You have to be the age of consent in the country that the NDA is written for (country of origin for the company it applies to) before you can sign it.
In this case, you have to be 18.
In Iceland you have to be 18 or older to get a passport. Otherwise legal guardians have to sign for a permission. The NDA has to be signed, and should the applicant not be legally allowed to sign such documents, his legal guardians will have to sign them for him/her.
So, from how the structure is in Iceland, I infer that something similar applies to the rest of the world. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Verone Edited by: Verone on 18/03/2008 21:20:44
Would it be possible to have someone look at the applcation page?
Hitting the "Register" Button brings up the following :
Quote: 500 - Internal Error
The server was unable to process your request.
Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
œ Back
Hi sir. I'm a support personnel! I manage to get this error when I try and upload a file of the incorrect type. Would that be the case here? Notice how you can only upload .gif, .jpg, .png.
Yup, I'm trying to upload a .png and it's messing up the Planck Bubble
I'll try in .jpg form
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Akita T
What, do you believe there will be no press coverage of this ? And the CSM members won't be quoted (with real names) in some of the news-items ?
Frankly no, if i were elected i would not expect to be quoted in the media, and of course you can always opt out of that[or at least opt out of being named]
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
So, from how the structure is in Iceland, I infer that something similar applies to the rest of the world.
^^ ya, it's the same in the UK.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:44:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Goumindong on 18/03/2008 21:45:55
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: CCP Xhagen You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Signing an NDA involves being 18 though...
No it doesn't.
An NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) is a legally binding document.
You have to be the age of consent in the country that the NDA is written for (country of origin for the company it applies to) before you can sign it.
In this case, you have to be 18.
No you don't. it only means that the contract is voidable.
At least it does in the United States.
And likely in other countries, since minors need a method to purchase real property or inherit real property.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Hi sir. I'm a support personnel! I manage to get this error when I try and upload a file of the incorrect type. Would that be the case here? Notice how you can only upload .gif, .jpg, .png.
Same issue when I try to upload a .jpg
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 18/03/2008 21:48:04
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Verone Edited by: Verone on 18/03/2008 21:20:44
Would it be possible to have someone look at the applcation page?
Hitting the "Register" Button brings up the following :
Quote: 500 - Internal Error
The server was unable to process your request.
Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
œ Back
Hi sir. I'm a support personnel! I manage to get this error when I try and upload a file of the incorrect type. Would that be the case here? Notice how you can only upload .gif, .jpg, .png.
Yup, I'm trying to upload a .png and it's messing up the Planck Bubble
I'll try in .jpg form
.jpg worked for me. And I plancked out when I tried to upload a beautiful EVE screenshot (in a .bmp). I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:48:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CSM PDF
Also, players with a serious warning or ban on any account in their possession can be excluded from candidate eligibility. However, in-game behavior, regardless of play style, will never be a criterion for candidacy unless the rules of the EULA and/or TOS are violated.
All candidates must verify their identity to CP before they can officially be acknowledged as a candidate. I n addition, a valid passport is required for travel and admission to I celand and participation on the CSM . B ecause election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Hamfast
Welcome back Xhagen, glad to see your project moving forward.
...
I do wonder about Eligibility, if I (Hamfast) am running (I am not planning to run at this time), I must prove to CCP that I am the one and only me... that is all well and good... and if Hamfast and the 2 Alts (Hamslow and Ham Notsofast) on this account have done nothing wrong (no bans, no warnings, no problems) then I would be eligible to run... but what about that other account I used to have... the one I closed a year ago with the character (and account) banned for being rude in church and dressing in funny colors (I am making this part up... really, I am...) would I lose that eligibility and will CCP be checking for that ineligibility?...
Thank you Hamfast , it is good to be back.
And about the eligibility. Mainly, and one can consider it our rule of thumb; if you have access to EVE, we are eligible to participate.
The reasoning behind this view is as follows: If you were marked as 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' (meaning that you personally would be banned from EVE, not just your account where the infraction occurred) you wouldn't be writing on this forum. Should you be 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' and you would be writing on the forums, you would be reported to the Game Masters and they would handle the matter in accordance to policy. All cases of the severity resulting in a personal ban from EVE are very well documented and logged and spotting those players is a very easy job. Especially me being an ex-GM, knowing all the tricks.
I hope this answers the question.
In my example, no matter how fake, I had an account with a "serious warning or ban" that is no longer active... this account is (see, I can post!!!) active and may not have been active when the last account was banned/warned...
It is my Supposition that I would not be eligible to run (I could vote, but not run) due to that prior action...
My question is will CCP be checking on my former bad behavior and making it known I am not eligible to hold office?
--------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Goumindong
No you don't. it only means that the contract is voidable.
At least it does in the United States[may vary state to state, but unlikely]
And likely in other countries, since minors need a method to purchase real property or inherit real property.
Read what Xhagen posted, he explains it better than I do as I didn't post about minors and parental consent.
Being at the age of consent still applies to being able to sign an NDA and for it to be a legally binding document, which in this case, in Iceland and most of the rest of the EU is 18.
Hence why CCP will not allow under 18's on the volunteer programme.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning.
zomg <3
/me strokes the mohawk
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning.
zomg <3
/me strokes the mohawk
It could be that you are trying to upload a too big of a picture. :) ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Goumindong
No you don't. it only means that the contract is voidable.
At least it does in the United States[may vary state to state, but unlikely]
And likely in other countries, since minors need a method to purchase real property or inherit real property.
Read what Xhagen posted, he explains it better than I do as I didn't post about minors and parental consent.
Being at the age of consent still applies to being able to sign an NDA and for it to be a legally binding document, which in this case, in Iceland and most of the rest of the EU is 18.
Hence why CCP will not allow under 18's on the volunteer programme.
Then its a iceland thing and not a NDA thing.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning.
zomg <3
/me strokes the mohawk
It could be that you are trying to upload a too big of a picture. :)
Hmmm... I shall try to reduce my size and see if it fits...
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Hamfast
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
And about the eligibility. Mainly, and one can consider it our rule of thumb; if you have access to EVE, we are eligible to participate.
The reasoning behind this view is as follows: If you were marked as 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' (meaning that you personally would be banned from EVE, not just your account where the infraction occurred) you wouldn't be writing on this forum. Should you be 'EVE Enemy number XXXX' and you would be writing on the forums, you would be reported to the Game Masters and they would handle the matter in accordance to policy. All cases of the severity resulting in a personal ban from EVE are very well documented and logged and spotting those players is a very easy job. Especially me being an ex-GM, knowing all the tricks.
I hope this answers the question.
In my example, no matter how fake, I had an account with a "serious warning or ban" that is no longer active... this account is (see, I can post!!!) active and may not have been active when the last account was banned/warned...
It is my Supposition that I would not be eligible to run (I could vote, but not run) due to that prior action...
My question is will CCP be checking on my former bad behavior and making it known I am not eligible to hold office?
CCP will be checking on your former bad behavior. I will then ask the Game Masters to assist me on a case by case basis. No bad behavior will be made public, but I do not see a problem with explaining to the applicant the reasons for the denial instead of quietly refuse to let him run, should the application be refused. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.18 21:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen stuff
Thanks --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning.
zomg <3
/me strokes the mohawk
It could be that you are trying to upload a too big of a picture. :)
Zomg it worked.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: CCP Xhagen I've noticed the programmer about this and this will be fixed first thing in the morning.
zomg <3
/me strokes the mohawk
It could be that you are trying to upload a too big of a picture. :)
Zomg it worked.
Indeed it did. Welcome ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:10:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Akita T
What, do you believe there will be no press coverage of this ? And the CSM members won't be quoted (with real names) in some of the news-items ?
Frankly no, if i were elected i would not expect to be quoted in the media, and of course you can always opt out of that[or at least opt out of being named]
From the PDFs :
Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
So, there you have it...
1|2|3|4|5. |
Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:33:00 -
[58]
You all have campaign websites already?!
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sgt Napalm You all have campaign websites already?!
No, but i have a domain, i have a web development tool and i have time. So im personally working on it as we speak
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Rogerano
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 22:42:00 -
[60]
I predict fail and not just because the CSM will have no more relevancy to 80% of the play-base than the forums currently do.
Great diversion for the loud people though. Look! Something shiny! --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause. |
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faxtarious
Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 23:17:00 -
[61]
It would be nice if we (the mission runners) could get a representative up there... 1-Aside from salvage and the marauder (haven't seen many in my mission hub), there has almost never been any major improvements or modifications in that department. 2-As an EVE citizen that opposes WoW and it's grinding, I find my missions "grindings" to be pretty WoW-like. 3-every serious Mission runner I know have standings 6+ with faction and 9+ with NPC corps. Those standings don't really mean much. Even in the term of agent selection, since we usually find one good quality lvl 4+ agent and stick with him. 4-it's been almost 5 years since the missions have been created...the game has evolved drastically and politically, yet, the missions stay the same. The storylines are intriguing (before you get that same mission 10 times in a row) so why can't we built upon that. More diverse mission, not the "lock and shoot" or haul and mine (aka buy it on market). 5-Make "team" missions more rewarding and more "entertaining" for the whole...the lvl 5 missions was a great addition to the game. When I heard about the lvl of difficulty and how it was "unsoloable" the first thing that came to mind was creating a corporation the revolves around lvl 5's (with logistics, tactics..and everything) But i juts noticed that a lvl 5 is just a big stuff that is first Not interesting due to the fact that the reward is not there for a group, and the insane number of nos towers makes them out to be who's got the most logistics. If it was tough of well, it could have been about who's the better FC, how to tactically use your Mission fleet (send a small frig trough a "frig only gate" to activate the Bigger gate while spam after spam of npcs keep the heavy arsenal busy. IÆm just throwing thing up..But that's the EVE I knew... Make it complex since most of your costumers joined EVE for its depth...not its graphics (although it owns props)
We criticize wow, yet, aside from the great "2003 revolutionary" mmo that EVE was it hasn't changed nor evolved since then.
I'm not talking about, nor representing PvPer. I'm a mission runner, always have been, and probably always will be, since pvp is more of a team game than anything else. There is room in EVE for both PVE and PVP...
I understand that CCP,s been busy since the game has grown so big to listen to the player base like they used to do before, (probably why they are putting this project up so fast) But US mission runners need a representative up there. to keep both PVE and PVP well balanced (not juts nerf something because its overpowered in PVP...it probably wasn't in PVE.
That was my 50 cent, and probably the longest post I've ever done here since 04'
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.18 23:38:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Akita T
What, do you believe there will be no press coverage of this ? And the CSM members won't be quoted (with real names) in some of the news-items ?
Frankly no, if i were elected i would not expect to be quoted in the media, and of course you can always opt out of that[or at least opt out of being named]
From the PDFs :
Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
So, there you have it...
Yea, because we all know all those Eve-TV folks were named Spiral Junkie and Stavros by their mothers...
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Cerui Tarshiel
Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.19 01:27:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 18/03/2008 21:31:41
Oh, hell... my passport expired 5 months ago, and I never bothered renewing it since I had no intention of travelling OUTSIDE the EU. You DO need a passport to go to Iceland if you're a citizen of an EU member state, right ? I mean, Iceland is not in the EU, just in the European "trade" zone.
What, do you believe there will be no press coverage of this ? And the CSM members won't be quoted (with real names) in some of the news-items ?
Actually Iceland is member of the Schengen border cooperation thingy so if your country is a member of that, which I do belive most if not all EU countries are, you can travel without a passport to Iceland.
Having said that you should always have a passport when travelling just in case (it's the most widely accepted proof of identity I belive).
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Bakhal Yttrites
Stair Fall
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Posted - 2008.03.19 01:27:00 -
[64]
Sadness. No running for me, as it would take a minimum of a couple months (or was it a couple years?)to get a passport from the US government right now. If they've managed to figure out how to store neural pathway and corneal scans and genetic material and whatever crap Google comes up with when they search for my name all on one card.
Sigh. Guess I'll just have to wait till next year. And hope my passport arrives before then.
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 03:48:00 -
[65]
Quote: It is very important that the information entered match with the information on your passport scan.
Does this mean i should lie about my current address, because my current residence is not the address which is on my valid and not out of date passport.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 05:15:00 -
[66]
If I were to apply now but my campaign website wasn't ready, would I be able to edit my application and add the link to my website at a later time, once it's finished? |
Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.03.19 06:14:00 -
[67]
Meh. If the council ever gets real power I might be interested. Until then, pass. Heck, not like I would get the votes to go anyway. But, more power to all of you guys that are running. I hope you all enjoy your miniature "elite" fanfest, and all the volunteer work for CCP you are going to have to do to get it.
I might actually vote though. Might vote for Verone. At least he doesn't blow you away after you pay the ransom. He used to make cool videos to watch too....
*
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.19 07:23:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Bane Glorious If I were to apply now but my campaign website wasn't ready, would I be able to edit my application and add the link to my website at a later time, once it's finished?
Yes. Or just send in your application when your site is ready, you have two weeks ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.19 07:26:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
Actually Iceland is member of the Schengen border cooperation thingy so if your country is a member of that, which I do belive most if not all EU countries are, you can travel without a passport to Iceland.
Having said that you should always have a passport when travelling just in case (it's the most widely accepted proof of identity I belive).
That is why we only accept a passport as an identification. We have to have a confirmation of an identity before we extend an invitation out. I doubt one would be able to board an airplane on tickets bought in a name other than your own. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.03.19 07:34:00 -
[70]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
You have to be able to travel to Iceland is the only requirement. That means you have to have a passport. I don't know how it is to get a passport if one is not at a legal age. But, we did not pose any age restriction.
Word a note: you do not need a passport if you're a citizen of one of the nordic countries as they have special agreements among eachother. As a matter of fact, I went to the fanfest and made a point of not bringing a passport :)
Last video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
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Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2008.03.19 07:53:00 -
[71]
Finally.
/Ben
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. How to fix Eve
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Brolly
Atkumi Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.19 08:45:00 -
[72]
At last, movement on the CSM begins!. I would have put in for the application but I have no passport, damn shame really.
I really hope we get enough good representatives from various aspects of the game instead of all but 1 being into pvp and 0.0. This could either be something great for eve and gaming as a whole or something epically fail, I really do hope it's the former.
Good luck to all you reps
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Hardin
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 08:57:00 -
[73]
A quick question relating to this section:
All candidates must verify their identity to CP before they can officially be acknowledged as a candidate. I n addition, a valid passport is required for travel and admission to I celand and participation on the CSM . B ecause election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
Does that mean that candidates have to disclose their real life name to the EVE community or can they run using their established account name?
I am slightly concerned that in this age of Google etc. that Members of the Council of Stellar Management could be the victims of real life harrassment not necessarily because of their involvement in the Council but due to people taking ingame conflicts too personally... While it hasn't happened in EVE there are examples of ingame vendettas being carried into real life with tragic consequences.
Once a real life name is published it doesn't take an internet genius long to track that person down. For the candidates it also has a potential impact on future career prospects. As someone who has responsibility for recruitment in my company I often check out Google/Facebook/Myspace upon receiving CV's. While I personally would have no objection to employing someone playing an Internet Space Game I am not sure all other employers are as open minded and there is no doubt that the names of the candidates will be published on various sites which will eventually be Googleable. This will be particularly hard for candidates who fail to get elected - as employers will be sure to wonder why.
Maybe that is just a risk the candidates have to take for the 'honour' of being selected and I know of course that real life politicians have to take this risk but would like some clarification on this from CCP...
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 09:17:00 -
[74]
I agree with Hardin.
I would also kinda like to know if i would be disqualified because my contact address isn't the one on my passport.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.19 09:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Hardin A quick question relating to this section:
All candidates must verify their identity to CCP before they can officially be acknowledged as a candidate. I n addition, a valid passport is required for travel and admission to Iceland and participation on the CSM . Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
Does that mean that candidates have to disclose their real life name to the EVE community or can they run using their established account name?
The real life name WILL BE DISCLOSED by CCP. That means you will run for candidacy under your real life name, with a character name of your choise to give other players a connection to who you are.
This also means that either you run in your full real life name, or you don't run at all. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.19 09:20:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Goumindong
I agree with Hardin.
I would also kinda like to know if i would be disqualified because my contact address isn't the one on my passport.
Not necessarily. This will simply be handled on a case by case basis. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 09:43:00 -
[77]
Was there any thought to not releasing the names of the Candidates?
Cause i don't see a good reason for doing so except opening up candidates unnecessary retribution and harassment.
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Hardin
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:24:00 -
[78]
I would imagine that the real reason is Public Relations.
CCP will want to use the Council of Stellar Management as a major news/PR opportunity and they will no doubt want the candidates to be interviewed as 'real people' to give the story more authenticity for non-gaming media.
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:27:00 -
[79]
I don't like/understand the full real life name thing :(
It's not so bad if your name is 'John Smith' but for someone like me with an unusual surname that would mean that anyone I've blown up in game could quite easily track me down. I know it's unlikely to actually happen but the privacy of someone's real life identity has always been something CCP has protected in the past.
I can understand CCP needing to know the real life identity and have no problem with that but what difference does it make to the players if my name is John Smith, Elizabeth Whickwicky the third or Granny Weatherwax? Surely what they are interested is who I am in game?
Zarch AlDain ---- My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hardin I would imagine that the real reason is Public Relations.
CCP will want to use the Council of Stellar Management as a major news/PR opportunity and they will no doubt want the candidates to be interviewed as 'real people' to give the story more authenticity for non-gaming media.
woohoo! i will be famous and get lots of girls! vote for me and i'll video tape it
Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:28:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Goumindong
Was there any thought to not releasing the names of the Candidates?
Cause i don't see a good reason for doing so except opening up candidates unnecessary retribution and harassment.
Appearing on Eve-TV and EON is not a legitimate reason, while i haven't been watching the duration of the run. I have not witnessed anyone being referenced by their real name. Even developers are referenced by their moniker or handle.
If you know who we are, and we know who we are, then why does everyone else need to know, especially if they will be voting for Goumindong or Verone or Bane Glorious and not John Kilgore or Barry MacDaniels? It very unlikely that anyone will run on anything other than their forum presence, but making the disclosure optional would be a better idea to allow someone to run on their own good name while not forcing everyone to open themselves.
It was decided very early on to require people to give up their real life names in order to run, and that the real life names were going to be made public. This is of course the first run of the new CSM and thus I will note down this observation and take it into consideration for the next term. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Hardin
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 10:40:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Goumindong
Was there any thought to not releasing the names of the Candidates?
Cause i don't see a good reason for doing so except opening up candidates unnecessary retribution and harassment.
Appearing on Eve-TV and EON is not a legitimate reason, while i haven't been watching the duration of the run. I have not witnessed anyone being referenced by their real name. Even developers are referenced by their moniker or handle.
If you know who we are, and we know who we are, then why does everyone else need to know, especially if they will be voting for Goumindong or Verone or Bane Glorious and not John Kilgore or Barry MacDaniels? It very unlikely that anyone will run on anything other than their forum presence, but making the disclosure optional would be a better idea to allow someone to run on their own good name while not forcing everyone to open themselves.
It was decided very early on to require people to give up their real life names in order to run, and that the real life names were going to be made public.
It is decisions like this that the first CSM should be scrutinising as the 'public' justifications offered here (EON/EVE TV) really do not hold water...
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 11:36:00 -
[83]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Goumindong
Was there any thought to not releasing the names of the Candidates?
Cause i don't see a good reason for doing so except opening up candidates unnecessary retribution and harassment.
Appearing on Eve-TV and EON is not a legitimate reason, while i haven't been watching the duration of the run. I have not witnessed anyone being referenced by their real name. Even developers are referenced by their moniker or handle.
If you know who we are, and we know who we are, then why does everyone else need to know, especially if they will be voting for Goumindong or Verone or Bane Glorious and not John Kilgore or Barry MacDaniels? It very unlikely that anyone will run on anything other than their forum presence, but making the disclosure optional would be a better idea to allow someone to run on their own good name while not forcing everyone to open themselves.
It was decided very early on to require people to give up their real life names in order to run, and that the real life names were going to be made public. This is of course the first run of the new CSM and thus I will note down this observation and take it into consideration for the next term.
Why not simply not disclose unless it becomes necessary in execution of duties of the CSM and save yourself the hassle?
I can't see how changing the non-voluntary disclosure to a voluntary disclosure would be a problem for you. You will still be receiving and verifying identities, you still have account information. The only thing that changes is that people don't get told our real names unless we want them to.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:05:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 19/03/2008 13:15:37 Those of ethnic minorities or living in a country where they are somehow oppressed might be discouraged by having to give their real life name.
I hope it wouldn't be the case that people discriminate on those sorts of grounds, but it is entirely possible someone could face real life consequences as some may take the online world to be an extension of such discriminations in RL
What happens if a candidate gets put in jail for partaking in democratic activities, even if only online?
Edit: is there a parallel scheme in China?
Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists
Recruiting |
a newbie
Ninja Trade Caeruleum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:06:00 -
[85]
Ugh! 2 weeks for passport limit? I couldn't get that if I paid 4x the price.. UGH.
I was going to run for english/japanese players but forget it now. Only people who have active passports can get it in under 2 weeks. *sighs*
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RaZZZZia
Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.03.19 13:59:00 -
[86]
Are there any plans to take measures against the domination of the council by a single alliance?
I dont see the sense of the project, if the council gets to much an orientation towards one of the political fractions ingame... Even if the council members try to be objective about game matters, they hardly can be. No pilote could, i guess
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 14:25:00 -
[87]
If we're still talking about disclosing real life names to the public, I really do not like the idea. Considering that people threatened real life bodily harm upon Zulupark just a few months ago, I'd like to minimize the risk of some nerdy psycho breaking into my house and cutting my throat with his Korean-manufactured katana.
So yeah, please, can we make real life names private, or at least a little private? Like maybe just initials? |
Pheonix Kanan
The Conflagration New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:00:00 -
[88]
There is nothing wrong with wanting fair representation in the creation and modification of this system (EVE). However, democracies/republics only work when the size of the group is small (say 1000 people or less). The more people you have one person representing, the more people they end up screwing over.
Basically, the end result of any form of representative government, although excellent for keeping the general populace happy, ends up in one of two failing groups (in the long run). Either you end up falling under the tyranny of the minority rule, and cause many terrible things to happen. Or you open the doors for the stupid and the ignorant (or just plain apathetic) people have the power to change everything in everyone's lives (look at America if you need an example).
It's not that I don't support this idea of Eve players having a say in the development of the game. However, as I read through the forums and look at the general ideas put forth by the player base, I cannot help but to think that they will cause Eve's complete and total destruction. If the devs really wanted to listen to the player base, they could just as easily read the forums as we all do. But they are choosing a route, while pacifying their players, will most likely be the single downfall of the game they are trying to keep afloat. -----
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Ripper Waveleng
Galaxy Research
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:07:00 -
[89]
Dude, It is a BS position, as a figure head which has no power and will have little or no ability to effect real change in the game. Most of us have real lives with real jobs and don't have time to fly to Iceland 2-3 times a year.
Basically your going to get elected and the next morning yur evemail is going to be so full of crabby whining complaint emails that you'll have to hire 20 staff members to help read all of it and then all yur going to be able to tell people is they should hit f12
For a community represenative to have real power it has to be a grassroots move, not a***** and bull-Pony show for CCP to get more ad time with,,
You want to be able to make change get 5-10 thousands people behind you that are willing to send a message by cancelling their alt account for a month.
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Orree
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:36:00 -
[90]
Ripper...if you've served in any sort of leadership or diplomatic capacity in this game, what you speak of is something you've already dealt with and continue to deal with.
For my part. I'm very intrigued by the prospect of this council. Is it perfect? No. I'm willing to give things a chance to work and evolve. I also have no problem accepting the council and rules/mandates surrounding it at face value.
I'm not very creative and don't know squat about putting a webpage together, so that will be my biggest hurdle to entry.
I think I'm going to apply assuming I can sort it the website thing. I've spent most of my adult working life acting in an advisory/decision-making support capacity to various entities and clients and it's a lot of what I do in-game, as well.
Campaign slogans...
"Orree. Has a passport and it's still valid!"
"A vote for Orree is a vote for...Orree."
Ugh...terrible.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.19 15:48:00 -
[91]
We are not known here by our given names... we are known by the names we make up for our avatars...
Sven Notmyrealname has done a number of things for Eve Online, but Chribba is the one that gets the credit... Chribba is the one that's known and would garner votes...
Tarminic is well known, Peter Pettigrew is not... Tarminic gets votes, Peter gets ignored, yet it's Peters work that suffers while Tarminic is penning his next well loved rant...
CCP wishes to know who the applicants are, that is fine, it seems to me our lives outside of Eve should be of concern to CCP, for all they know I work for Blizzard (I don't) and would be very interested in information I could glean for what ever reason... Heck, I could have a history of ignoring NDA's... CCP needs to know these things before they let us in the door... but the players here don't really need to know Peter, Sven or Fred...
I just hope the real Sven Notmyrealname and Peter Pettigrew, who have nothing to do with Chribba or Tarminc, are not bothered by my name dropping... Fred does not care.
--------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Iboku Kaeane
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.03.19 17:19:00 -
[92]
I've exprienced closely what impact people elected for something like this can have on a game, I worked with one on data analysis, and suggestions to help in minimal balance changes (minimal changes are far better than large changes) back in my day playing DAoC.
Therefore I look forward to seeing this in function, I am as of yet, uncertain if i will apply for this or vote and participate actively in whatever manner i can without being part of this council, however my real life name is far from an issue to me.
In the end, i know i have the time to devote myself to this however, it is hard to decide if i want a position like this, to me this would be two things, another layer of game experience (which i don't mind at all), And a way to have some influence on the develoment of the game, not much but even a little is enough, If you've ever worked with Game development representatives on any game before you'll know this to be true. ----------------------------------------------
Grant me the serenity to accept what i cannot change, The courage to change what i cannot accept, And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people |
no013
Stormwolf Holdings LLC
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Posted - 2008.03.19 17:21:00 -
[93]
Well ill will vote for any 1 who will fix those vouch for us minmatar and fix those artillery cannons and our non existance ewar mods.
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Bakhal Yttrites
Stair Fall
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Posted - 2008.03.19 17:58:00 -
[94]
Why would CCP make a requirement like this? As I scan ticket prices from Indianapolis to Iceland, it becomes clear to me that they are willing to invest thousands of dollars per CSM member. Yes, that rl ISK is not going directly to the players as payment for services, but to make it worth their while they need to hold participants to a higher level of accountability if they are going to have meaningful input into the game and the community.
Is it unreasonable to ask of players of a MMORPG? Probably, because we play in a fantasy world with fantasy spaceships playing with fantasy money. But CCP is asking it of us, not as part of Eve but as active participants in their business model.
I know, I know-- the CSM has no "authority" and will be purely advisory. Hmmm. Like consultants. Volunteer consultants, at a nonetheless very real expense to CCP.
If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't. Hell, if I could secure a passport in two weeks I would run for this just for the novelty of it. After attempting to engage multinational corporations who waste themselves out of profitability and institutions that perpetuate abusive relationships between individuals, seeing something like this is simply breathtaking.
Will it be effective? Who knows? My background is in applied anthropology, and I can tell you that there often isn't a "right" solution one can just grab off the shelf and plug into a given situation, as much as they may preach that in business school (as my sister tells me happens in her world). I can't even tell you if this is a healthy direction for the community to go-- how much engagement with the community is too much? How much engagement with CCP is too much? Where are the lines and where should the lines be?
I'm relatively new around here, but I know people who played Eve for several years and I've been doing my homework. The type of engagement CCP tries to have is one that leaves it very vulnerable in certain respects, breaks the models that are exemplified in management courses in companies all over the place, and echoes the call for institutional reform that many activists and consumer groups put out.
The organizations I have interfaced with would do anything to improve except spend money. That CCP, a relatively small company, would invest this level of resources on an experiment in customer relations just sort of overwhelms me. I know that they are gamers themselves, and I can imagine that they understand the ramifications of what they ask. That is why they wrote a 19 page manifesto in proper academic style to support it.
It is risky. But I expect that they will find nine people willing to do the job. Saying "Real names" means that everyone who is involved is committed to the process and is going to serve the community as best as they can. Saying "Real names" means that those who want to serve will have to invest themselves and their real life reputations as CCP invests their own reputation and money. If it works, there will be mutual payoff depending on how each leverages the output. In CCP's case it will hopefully be reducing churn. In the case of the CSM members, it will hopefully be putting this experience down on a resume or CV and having something to get geek points with in their personal circles.
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Crimsonjade
Comanche Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.19 18:40:00 -
[95]
/emote kicks self for failing to renew my passport
but best wishs to the winners!
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.19 19:03:00 -
[96]
Real life names, disclosed to the community, this is not wise.
I fully understand CCP's need to verify individuals for legal reasons, as well as marketing reasons. Yet, the community does not need to know the name of anyone in the CSM. The community has no legal recourse with regards to the individuals that constitute the CSM. Additionally, if someone did something with RL information, against one of the candidates, be it even a small thing, CCP would likely be liable for damages. It is for this these kinds of reasons that posting RL information on the forums about someone other than your self is prohibited.
I encourage CCP to rethink this policy for the protection of its customers, as well as its own protections.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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maGz
The Hoodie Mafia Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 19:20:00 -
[97]
While I understand the need for authorization of the members, I cannot see any other reason for revealing RL names as a mere PR-stunt aimed at the none-mmorpg crowd... That alone makes the CSM a joke as it would in effect by something along the lines: "Yeah sure. Good argument. Oh look journalists incoming - all line up for group-foto with EVE-posters as background..."
And for the actual election itself: only a minority reads these forums - how in gods name do you expect to get a fair representation of the EVE-community?
It's a good idea, no doubt. But as usual we fall victim of complete control from CCP. ____________
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D'ceet
Shadows of the Dead Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.03.19 19:30:00 -
[98]
i, D'ceet am hereby throwing my hat into the ring!
COME GET A TASTE OPPONENTS!
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.19 19:36:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 19/03/2008 19:41:48 what if your current passport is expired, but you can get a passport by June
hmmmm June is surprisingly close aka about 10 weeks, which is what good old uncle sam says it takes to get a passport
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Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.03.19 19:45:00 -
[100]
To all the ppl whining about RL names being revealed, shame you didnt think about that before your hid behind your internet persona, or you can be cool like me and just not have any RL presence on the internet. I just fail to exsist on any search engines, as a RL entity.
Seriously though, I fully understand why RL names are required, not only from the PR standpoint, but as a counter balance to prevent players from abusing their "power" as a member of the council. Makes perfect sense. You wish to be a public figure, you give up the right to internet anonymity.
With all that said, sadly I think the only thing of any worth that will come out of this whole concept, is that a few people will get free tickets to iceland, some free meals, and a couple nights stay in a hotel room. Since I unfortunetly believe that this whole concept is already pre-nerfed, and really mostly being pushed forward as a PR spin to fix the allegations of direct Dev/GM meddling with ingame affairs.
Xhagen, I do appreciate the time and effort that you have put into this, but I will be shocked and awed if this actually even last more than 2 terms before it goes the way of most pet projects of the PR dept., ala weekly EveTV broadcast.
--
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Tehopenee
British Federation Sleepless Knights Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 20:05:00 -
[101]
I guess what you are trying to do might be a good idea--but--I dont see how it is going to be even reasonable fair. First you have to have the moeny to get to iceland should you be chosen. Got to be big bucks there. Just a thought--then I suppose it will consist of mainly older character types who belong to the big alliances. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. I hope it works well for you. I think this will not be an easy thing to do--good luck with it. tehopenee :)
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.19 20:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Treelox To all the ppl whining about RL names being revealed, shame you didnt think about that before your hid behind your internet persona, or you can be cool like me and just not have any RL presence on the internet. I just fail to exsist on any search engines, as a RL entity.
Seriously though, I fully understand why RL names are required, not only from the PR standpoint, but as a counter balance to prevent players from abusing their "power" as a member of the council. Makes perfect sense. You wish to be a public figure, you give up the right to internet anonymity.
So it's good to disclose real life names of people on a video game council because if they try to "abuse their 'power'", people around the world know who that person is and can go TP their house and knock over their mailbox? If a representative were to try to suggest something that was irrational, incorrect, or just plain disruptive, the idea will would get disproven, shot down, and ignored. I don't see how making someone's name open to the public would be a punishment befitting a crime, let alone a punishment for those who didn't and probably won't commit any crimes in the first place.
I've got no problem telling CCP what my name is, since after all they can find it easily enough under my billing info, but most people would prefer to go under their character's name, or at least Bill M. or John S. or something. |
Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.19 20:44:00 -
[103]
First off, I want CCP to turn this in to a PR Show... I want them to get a return on their investment... but as Adunh Slavy points out, CCP is the one with the "Deep Pockets" if something unforeseen happens and can be linked to CCP's release of their name.
CCP has committed to pay the cost to fly 9 people from any where in the world to Iceland, Put them up for a few days, feed them... perhaps with Pizza... and then fly them home... I suspect Transportation to and from the office would also have to be included... Oh, and then there is the "Entertainment"... CCP should be able to use this in Advertisement, I want them to... More money for CCP = more resources for Eve, and we all benifit from that.
If as part of the Eve-TV/ Advertisement a CSM member says "My name is Fred and I approve this" and Fred starts to catch flack (as Adunh Slavy points out) no court will find CCP libel (well, no normal court), but, if CCP announces Fred's name publicly all bets are off... I suggest This would become a good investment...
--------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Sopha Serpentia
Core Dynamics
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Posted - 2008.03.19 21:35:00 -
[104]
I find this an underwhelming waste of time. Unless you enjoy brisk cold weather or fantasise about being a game developer.
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Serene Loren
Amarr Trading Company Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.19 21:40:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Serene Loren on 19/03/2008 21:41:07 Two Questions:
1. Is the trip to Iceland on CCP's dime, or do the CSM members have to pay for thier own trip and lodging? And, I FINALLY found the answer after posting, how completely weak of me and my crappy skimming of the posts.
2. Many have asked about the possibility of alliance dominated council. Is there going to be a limit of how many of each coalitions players will/can make it onto the council?
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Soporo
Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.19 22:23:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Soporo on 19/03/2008 22:27:41 Edited by: Soporo on 19/03/2008 22:25:41
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Reptzo Personally, I think this will be the biggest problem, getting people to care enough to vote in the first place.
You might as well just go ahead and say "there will be one representative from each of the highest-count alliances in the game" and scrap the vote altogether. I fully expect that alliance members will be strongly "encouraged" to vote (and gather as much support for candidates) as possible.
Which means what? It means only huge Alliance issues will be cared about to be discussed. Which already ARE known and discussed by the same frickin Devs that PLAY the game in those same frickin Alliances. (barring the Goonies of course )
I mean what about rookie Empire issues? What about LowSec Prat issues. What about Missioner issues, Miners, etc.
Eh, useless PR move, I'd say. Might be wrong but I doubt it. Regardless, I will vote a Goon in, makes as much sense as anything. ________________________________________________
"We can't reimburse ships due to server meltdowns because our service is so frickin unstable we get thousands of reimburse petitions daily". |
Stealthy
Imperial Guardians Dark Phoenix Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.19 22:34:00 -
[107]
as one of the original members of the CSM (we just met in real time chat chan)I suggest you STOP the hype. I believe I was in 7th one.
CCP is doing this ONLY because multiple Devs, GMs, ISDs etc personnel got caught doing things they SHOULD NOT have been doing.
CCP HAD given up on the CSM concept for a few years until the series of scandals erupted.
I am interested in seeing how the new concept pans out but pretending WHY the CSM was revived is utter tripe.
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Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.19 23:19:00 -
[108]
Personally, I think this will all boil down to Much Ado About Nothing. I have Admin'd games where there have been various incarnations of "Player Councils", and in my experience, the outcome falls into 2 categories: Very bad idea, and Catastrophic. So I'm pretty much in agreement with Treelox
My only question to Xhagen would be, are the "elected" players going to an actual representation of the Eve Demographic? Or will it be like Akita T surmises that it will just be a Top 9 popularity contest.
In the last QEN, Dr.EyjoG states that 76% resided in High sec, 13% resided in Low sec, and 9% resided in 0.0 (he never explained where the missing 2% was). Seems to me you from this you would get 1 CAOD alt, 1 Pew Pew, 4 Mission Farmers and 3 Veld Humpers.
Wad
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Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:38:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Wadaya So I'm pretty much in agreement with Treelox
Careful, I think thats the 3rd time we have been in agreement this week, soon ppl will call us alts of one another....
:P
Originally by: Wadaya In the last QEN, Dr.EyjoG states that 76% resided in High sec, 13% resided in Low sec, and 9% resided in 0.0 (he never explained where the missing 2% was). Seems to me you from this you would get 1 CAOD alt, 1 Pew Pew, 4 Mission Farmers and 3 Veld Humpers.
My semi-sarcasitic guess for the missing 2%, in process of being biomassed, dev/gm accounts in jove space, and those chars that have been perma banned. --
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Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:49:00 -
[110]
"You will run under your real name with an EVE identity for others to relate to."
Originally by: CCP Xhagen It was decided very early on to require people to give up their real life names in order to run, and that the real life names were going to be made public.
I see no issue with the real names of the *successful* board members being made public, especially as a positive PR action. I am more concerned, however, with making them public at the candidature stage. Of course CCP need those details when people put themselves forward for consideration, but it is clear from comments upthread that many people are concerned that they might suffer 'real life' consequences.
Personally, I am *out* as a pilot in Eve-online, indeed I was talking at a (business) conference last week and mentioned the fact from the platform (there was a relevance, not just pride!) but the "run under your real name" misses the point that ingame and at in-person meets "real names" are extremely rare, indeed meaningless. Only one's "EVE identity" has any meaning to others to form their judgement on (indeed except for the few dozen pilots I've met in person I've little idea of the age or gender of anyone else, let alone their 'real' name!) "require people ... real life names in order to run ... to be made public." does not preclude not publicising the real names of those candidates who are not elected, should they request.
Oh, for the record, I'm Alison. Hi there ;-P
IZ
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:52:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Treelox To all the ppl whining about RL names being revealed, shame you didnt think about that before your hid behind your internet persona, or you can be cool like me and just not have any RL presence on the internet. I just fail to exsist on any search engines, as a RL entity.
according to google I am a hockey player, a laywer, and a novelist
anyways who cares if all the members are goons or bob or tri, or idle guns. ccp still has the giant your ideas are stupid VETO! (no subliminal reference to VETO intended) do you think ccp would even listen to a give us tech 2 bpos, or something like that.
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Vegeta
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:58:00 -
[112]
Hi,
I would like to know whether I should bother applying and spending time on this or not, or would I be wasting my time? You know my history Xhagen, please get back to me via Eve or email.
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Drachtul Tun'Dull
Stair Fall
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Posted - 2008.03.20 03:01:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Drachtul Tun''Dull on 20/03/2008 03:02:36 Do people here not read the 19 page PDF? CCP doesn't see this as a game. They see it as a social experiment with game-like qualities. They want accountability from the CSM to the player base in an out of game context, to purposefully push back the boundaries of in-game relationships and take it to "the next level." They are pushing to engage beyond the comfort zone we have built up to protect ourselves.
Maybe it is the anthropologist in me. I find it fascinating. CCP is taking this thing deeper than I thought possible.
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Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.03.20 03:20:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Bane Glorious If we're still talking about disclosing real life names to the public, I really do not like the idea. Considering that people threatened real life bodily harm upon Zulupark just a few months ago, I'd like to minimize the risk of some nerdy psycho breaking into my house and cutting my throat with his Korean-manufactured katana.
So yeah, please, can we make real life names private, or at least a little private? Like maybe just initials?
I have never actually threatened Zulu with bodily harm, but do not really blame those who have. (As long as they don't go through with it.) Dreamed about it? Sure. And blissfully pleasant dreams they were too. But, it was a two-handed battle hammer that I was bludgeoning him to death with.... slowly. Does that still count as "nerdy"?
Seriously though, real names made public in any online situation is NOT a good idea. CCP should re-think this one. Initials is a decent idea.....
*
* |
Lars Lodar
Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.20 07:49:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Vrikshaka In order to ensure that the interests of Eve's three major zones (hisec, lowsec, 0.0) are equally represented, you should reserve a certain number of player representative spots for each zone.
Lowsec should have at least one representative guaranteed in the CSM (10% of Eve inhabitants, according to QEN demographics). This player should have to be -10.0
Too true.
Low sec needs a little lovin'. As it stands now, low sec is hardly an intermediate between high sec and 0.0 in terms of the ability to make isk, safety, and content.
It'd be great to see some more low sec specific content to pull make it more attractive.
Join Blood Corsair's |
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.03.20 08:15:00 -
[116]
Great to see this come to fruition.
If the round-table discussions at FanFest are anything to go by, the greatest challenge for the first CSM members will be to establish a sustainable model and web 2.0 tools for EvE Players to get transparency and real value from the CSM.
The first term can be expected a bumpy ride, both for CCP and the Council. Sounds like hard work and fun. I just might have to sign-up
≡v≡ Strategic Maps - Outposts & Sov - Alliance Rank |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.03.20 08:59:00 -
[117]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 20/03/2008 09:04:14 Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 20/03/2008 09:02:46
Originally by: Drachtul Tun'Dull Edited by: Drachtul Tun''Dull on 20/03/2008 03:02:36 Do people here not read the 19 page PDF? CCP doesn't see this as a game. They see it as a social experiment with game-like qualities. They want accountability from the CSM to the player base in an out of game context, to purposefully push back the boundaries of in-game relationships and take it to "the next level." They are pushing to engage beyond the comfort zone we have built up to protect ourselves.
Maybe it is the anthropologist in me. I find it fascinating. CCP is taking this thing deeper than I thought possible.
I found a simular observation from my reading. My RL background involves studies in political sciences, international relations and more prominently as a war historian and I must say that I was immediately tempted to become involved in this process. However, I also agree that the level of disclosure that candidates must endure is far too overbearing.
Simply put, ccp are not in a position to offer the level of protection against probable threat that may or may not evolve out of this disclosure. More importantly, unlike RL comparisons, I doubt that the playerbase is fanatical enough to risk compromising essential rights of privacy and freedom from public scrutiny over this game/social experiment. People grudgingly do so in RL sure, but even the most hardcore gamer would surely be able to differentiate between a RL politician and the CSM delegates.
td:dr?
CCP would be wise to reconsider the level of disclosure necessary for candidates, and consider the implications of such disclosure. I really dont see a need beyond promotional material for this sort of disclosure. Surely an alias would suffice, even if different to the ingame chars, like a nom de plume so to speak.
Issues of safety, privacy and security should take precedence over a good 5 min sound bite.
EDIT: Personally, im not going to get involved at any level beyond observation until the disclosure clause is reexamined by ccp. Unfortunate really as I would have liked to partake in this process, though I doubt id have the time nor political ethos within eve to have much of a chance of winning :)
Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag |
Grismar
The Establishment Establishment
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 10:15:00 -
[118]
On the point of passports:
The original point still holds: those of us who have a European Identity Card can travel all over the EU (and Iceland) without a passport. They can pay taxes, vote, buy plane tickets and sign contracts, all without a passport. However, it would seem that they cannot join the CSM without a passport, which means they'll have to cough up the dough to get one just to be eligible.
This problem may be unclear to anyone living outside the EU (including those living in Iceland), but the OP made a good point and CCP should really consider relaxing the constraint 'passport or EU identity card', since they are equal for all relevant purposes within the full Schengen group.
On the point of anonimity:
-Of course- the real life identities of members of the council should be known to CCP and the other council members, for all the obvious reasons, as quoted by CCP. They should also fall under the terms of the NDA and never be disclosed (or confirmed when leaked) to the general public.
This is not about internet anonimity. It's about a virtual world where everyone plays a role (whether it's the role of 'swashbuckling space hero' or 'just me with some improvements'). I bet people who would run, would want players to vote for their character and not the unemployed mom of 2, the soldier on mission in Iraq or the excentric inhabitant of an old folks home.
We have a right to privacy and that right goes right out the door once you disclose your real identity. Of course anyone would be free to advertise their real identity if they feel it gives them an edge, but none of the members should be obligated to do so, for a lot of fairly obvious reasons...
(in case you're wondering: I'm not running and I already disclose my full RL identity on my personal website, I just feel strongly about the rights of anyone who -would- want to run)
Greetings, Grismar.
Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator |
faxtarious
Kai-Zen inc.
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 11:45:00 -
[119]
only ask fro a pic of the pasport....isn't that kind of risky with Photoshop ?
Oh and PS I have a valid passport.
I would love to run for the mission runners
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.20 11:45:00 -
[120]
What is the mechanics of the actual vote? Do I just vote for one CSM candidate and the top X of them become part of the CSM? Could someone point me to documentation about that?
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Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.03.20 12:24:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 20/03/2008 12:28:22
Originally by: Tasko Pal What is the mechanics of the actual vote? Do I just vote for one CSM candidate and the top X of them become part of the CSM? Could someone point me to documentation about that?
This is detailed in the PDfs linked to in the head post. Each account gets one vote. The nine candidates with the most votes are appointed to the CSM and the following five candidates become the alternates.
IZ
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf page 15)
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Grismar
The Establishment Establishment
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 12:37:00 -
[122]
Originally by: faxtarious only ask fro a pic of the pasport....isn't that kind of risky with Photoshop ?
I guess that depends on where you're from, but where I live forging a passport is a very serious offense. And since any passport can easily be checked with the country that issued it, I wouldn't monkey around with forgery.
Trying to get into a movie or even through customs with a fake id is one thing, sending someone a copy of a fake (passable or not) to pass off as real in a legal agreement is another...
Greetings, Grismar.
Your EVE IGB home: EVE Wiki, Explorer, Navigator |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.20 13:29:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/03/2008 13:32:12
Originally by: Grismar On the point of passports:
The original point still holds: those of us who have a European Identity Card can travel all over the EU (and Iceland) without a passport. They can pay taxes, vote, buy plane tickets and sign contracts, all without a passport. However, it would seem that they cannot join the CSM without a passport, which means they'll have to cough up the dough to get one just to be eligible.
This problem may be unclear to anyone living outside the EU (including those living in Iceland), but the OP made a good point and CCP should really consider relaxing the constraint 'passport or EU identity card', since they are equal for all relevant purposes within the full Schengen group.
The OP ? No, it was Akita T
And... yeah... seriously, I'm still waiting for an official answer. Can I use the picture of my expired passport + my valid Romanian ID card to apply ?
My passport expired 5 months ago, and I don't plan on getting a new one, since I don't plan on travelling outside the Schengen Zone (of which my country, Romania, is part of since January 2007)... and apparently, Iceland was a part of long before that (and still is, AFAIK, right now).
1|2|3|4|5. |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.20 13:44:00 -
[124]
Quote: EVE Online is going boldly where no other MMORPG has gone before. A player-elected council will hold court with CCP to help govern EVE Online _ s future. The Council of Stellar Management was unveiled to Fanfest goers last November, and has been a topic of intense discussion ever since. Now all the facts are at your fingertips. The new CSM blog is up and ready for your attention.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not "where no other MMORPG has gone before." In a failed attempt to improve customer relations, SWG attempted something very similar, forming a "Senate" of players to provide ideas and opinions on the direction of the game. They could introduce "bills" for chanages they wanted and vote on those changes. It was an attempt to show the playerbase that SOE actually listened to their players. Guess what? They didn't listen. The Senate's suggestions were largely ignored, and in a bit of poetic irony for Star Wars fans, it was dissolved. The only result was that the players grew more resentful of SOE and felt less like their concerns were being listened to and addressed.
I'm not saying that this won't work, but just a word of caution: if you (CCP) intend to do this, make darn sure that you will really follow through, be prepared to act on the ideas of your council, or you will only end up convincing the players that the whole thing is a sham and you had no intention of listening in the first place.
Oh, and to reiterate, it has been done before, so your news item is a bit of false advertising. I'd suggest changing it.
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Fifth Horseman
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.20 13:46:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Grismar On the point of passports:
The original point still holds: those of us who have a European Identity Card can travel all over the EU (and Iceland) without a passport. They can pay taxes, vote, buy plane tickets and sign contracts, all without a passport. However, it would seem that they cannot join the CSM without a passport, which means they'll have to cough up the dough to get one just to be eligible.
Err yeah, well in Britain in you need a passport to prove that you don't need it. Strange, but true.
Anyway, I just came here to say that, internet, webcam, plant some trees if you're going to make people travel the world for INTERNET related business. --- Fanboi noun: 1)Person who thinks you should be happy that Eve just got a little bit worse.
2) Idiot.
Fanboiz: Plural of Fanboi Doorknob: Collective noun for Fanboiz. |
Drachtul Tun'Dull
Stair Fall
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 14:47:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Quote: EVE Online is going boldly where no other MMORPG has gone before. A player-elected council will hold court with CCP to help govern EVE Online _ s future. The Council of Stellar Management was unveiled to Fanfest goers last November, and has been a topic of intense discussion ever since. Now all the facts are at your fingertips. The new CSM blog is up and ready for your attention.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not "where no other MMORPG has gone before." In a failed attempt to improve customer relations, SWG attempted something very similar, forming a "Senate" of players to provide ideas and opinions on the direction of the game. They could introduce "bills" for chanages they wanted and vote on those changes. It was an attempt to show the playerbase that SOE actually listened to their players. Guess what? They didn't listen. The Senate's suggestions were largely ignored, and in a bit of poetic irony for Star Wars fans, it was dissolved. The only result was that the players grew more resentful of SOE and felt less like their concerns were being listened to and addressed.
I'm not saying that this won't work, but just a word of caution: if you (CCP) intend to do this, make darn sure that you will really follow through, be prepared to act on the ideas of your council, or you will only end up convincing the players that the whole thing is a sham and you had no intention of listening in the first place.
Oh, and to reiterate, it has been done before, so your news item is a bit of false advertising. I'd suggest changing it.
Were these real meetings where they actually met face to face, or was it all bits and bytes crossing the wires? Big difference between the two in terms of scope and impact (speaking as an anthropologist).
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G0rF
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:23:00 -
[127]
Quote: Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
What if you already have a character that bears your real name? Oopsy, deleted my sig! |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 15:42:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Drachtul Tun'Dull
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Quote: EVE Online is going boldly where no other MMORPG has gone before. A player-elected council will hold court with CCP to help govern EVE Online _ s future. The Council of Stellar Management was unveiled to Fanfest goers last November, and has been a topic of intense discussion ever since. Now all the facts are at your fingertips. The new CSM blog is up and ready for your attention.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not "where no other MMORPG has gone before." In a failed attempt to improve customer relations, SWG attempted something very similar, forming a "Senate" of players to provide ideas and opinions on the direction of the game. They could introduce "bills" for chanages they wanted and vote on those changes. It was an attempt to show the playerbase that SOE actually listened to their players. Guess what? They didn't listen. The Senate's suggestions were largely ignored, and in a bit of poetic irony for Star Wars fans, it was dissolved. The only result was that the players grew more resentful of SOE and felt less like their concerns were being listened to and addressed.
I'm not saying that this won't work, but just a word of caution: if you (CCP) intend to do this, make darn sure that you will really follow through, be prepared to act on the ideas of your council, or you will only end up convincing the players that the whole thing is a sham and you had no intention of listening in the first place.
Oh, and to reiterate, it has been done before, so your news item is a bit of false advertising. I'd suggest changing it.
Were these real meetings where they actually met face to face, or was it all bits and bytes crossing the wires? Big difference between the two in terms of scope and impact (speaking as an anthropologist).
Couldn't quite say, I'd quit the game at that point, and have only read the forums/reports since then. I believe they were not face to face, but I'll look into it to make sure. I understand your point about the scope, but the basic idea is the same, and to me at least CCP's characterization of this as something never done before is uninformed at best, and outright false at worst.
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Hardin
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:54:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Hardin on 20/03/2008 15:54:30
Despite my concerns about rl information being provided I have decided to join Verone and throw my hat into the ring.
If you want to find out more about why I am standing please and some other stuff please visit:
http://hardinfaq.blogspot.com/
I intend to keep it updated and add fresh content over the course of the campaign...
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Omber Zombie
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.03.20 16:05:00 -
[130]
like Hardin (and his Disco ball) and Verone, I too am dropping my hat into the ring. A website and assorted media will be coming soonÖ
also, on the voting system: why not have a preference based system. Instead of just one nomination, give people the ability to vote for 3 seperate candidates in order of preference. Those votes can then be weighted as 3, 2 and 1 points each, which means that even though large alliances may want to vote their first preference for their own members, there's 3 other 'points' that then get spread out to other nominees and would help balance out the final vote tally.
just a thought, Oz ----------------------
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
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Hardin
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 16:16:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Hardin on 20/03/2008 16:17:14
Originally by: Omber Zombie like Hardin (and his Disco ball) and Verone, I too am dropping my hat into the ring. A website and assorted media will be coming soonÖ
also, on the voting system: why not have a preference based system. Instead of just one nomination, give people the ability to vote for 3 seperate candidates in order of preference. Those votes can then be weighted as 3, 2 and 1 points each, which means that even though large alliances may want to vote their first preference for their own members, there's 3 other 'points' that then get spread out to other nominees and would help balance out the final vote tally.
just a thought, Oz
Welcome to the race. Looks like some tough competition
Re the voting do you mean like this?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum Lux Caelestia
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 17:14:00 -
[132]
Question: Will the text of the NDA the members sign be disclosed to the community?
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I sympathize with the fact that CCP would like to armor themselves against company secrets flying the coop, but I'd kind of like to know exactly what language is contained therein.
F.ex. a 'CCP's arbitrary choice' NDA and a 'no gameplay information which is not already public' NDA are two different beasts.
Also, Quote: It cannot be stressed enough that the council will not have any formal power within CCP; it will function solely as an advisory council to CCP by serving as a communication conduit between the playerbase and CCP.
Win! (It's stating things like this upfront that make us love you, CCP & Xhagen) ((Am being serious, not sarcastic. That fact was discussed in the prior thread on this, but it's nice to have that out in the open for people who may have missed that and might get the wrong impression. I think the CSM has a lot of potential irregardless.))
Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words. |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum Lux Caelestia
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 17:21:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Ramblin Man on 20/03/2008 17:21:32
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Omber Zombie like Hardin (and his Disco ball) and Verone, I too am dropping my hat into the ring. A website and assorted media will be coming soonÖ
also, on the voting system: why not have a preference based system. Instead of just one nomination, give people the ability to vote for 3 seperate candidates in order of preference. Those votes can then be weighted as 3, 2 and 1 points each, which means that even though large alliances may want to vote their first preference for their own members, there's 3 other 'points' that then get spread out to other nominees and would help balance out the final vote tally.
just a thought, Oz
Welcome to the race. Looks like some tough competition
Re the voting do you mean like this?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
I can answer that from the last thread, which went on for a long time (and CCP Xhagen answering until the end -- here's his one month necro).
More or less, Xhagen thought it was an idea with merit, but not for the first cycle. He'd rather start simply in regards to voting method, proxy voting, etc. etc. Then, they can add more features if all goes well.
Thought through like a true programmer.
Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words. |
Malena
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 17:33:00 -
[134]
Can we send in a copy of our passport application? I don't have one, but am applying for one next week... it won't be back before the deadline, but it will be back before the planned meeting. Am I still eligible?
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Altho Regilian
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.20 20:53:00 -
[135]
I have the same problem as the above poster. I applied for a passport today but the standard processing time in the US is 4 weeks. The expedited time is 3 weeks. I can send in an alternate form of ID (Driver's License, etc) which contains the name DOB information that is required as well as a copy of my application.
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Oisin
|
Posted - 2008.03.21 01:23:00 -
[136]
Originally by: G0rF
Quote: Because election winners will ultimately make appearances on EVE -TV and EON , candidates must run under their real-life names, and may either create a new character or use an existing account name to give themselves an in-game identity.
What if you already have a character that bears your real name?
Does it say G0rF on your passport?
Seriously, I do know at least one guy whose ingame name is his real full name. I guess in some of those cases, the character name is obviously a real name, and in other cases it isn't.
I expect the candidates will still be remembered by their character name rather than their real name, and if they are the same, well, that's one less thing to remember.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.03.21 01:37:00 -
[137]
I would have loved to have submitted an application even if a very unknown player here, but the passport requirement is a bit rough because it can take about 4-6 weeks to get a new passport in the US... and thatÆs if youÆre lucky.
Thus I am unable to submit a copy of a passport at this exact time. However I could provide a state issued identification card for the time being while I continue to wait on my passport.
Would CCP accept this legal identification?
____________________
no profile pic, no sig... i'm boring... :p |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.21 02:42:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Dominatus Crispus I would have loved to have submitted an application even if a very unknown player here, but the passport requirement is a bit rough because it can take about 4-6 weeks to get a new passport in the US... and thatÆs if youÆre lucky.
Thus I am unable to submit a copy of a passport at this exact time. However I could provide a state issued identification card for the time being while I continue to wait on my passport.
Would CCP accept this legal identification?
good luck on any international travel with out a passport (think the us still has some exceptions such as ground travel to Canada/Mexico but other than that you do need a passport)
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Omber Zombie
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.03.21 04:29:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hardin
Re the voting do you mean like this?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
pretty much
looking forward to the campaign trail - it should be fun ----------------------
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing |
Shananigan
|
Posted - 2008.03.21 07:09:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Shananigan on 21/03/2008 07:10:58 I posted this somewhere else but I'm prolly more likely to get a response from CCP here. I'm an AMerican and well only around 30% of Americans have passports, but we do have legal state ID's that will tell our identities, the passports take too long to get, and by the time election happens I wouldnt have one. Is it possible to use my US state ID to apply for council or are Americans basicly not going to have a chance at all of being a part of this council? It would be no problem getting a passport by June when CCP actually flys the council but to get one within 2 weeks is basicly impossible, unless CCP is my mom in iceland that has only a few weeks to live that is lol
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2008.03.21 07:31:00 -
[141]
For all the comments about Passports:
I would hazard a guess that the requirement to have a passport-image is to ensure that anyone is voted onto the CSM will be capable of full-filling their responsibilities, and there is no dodgy mess around it after people are voted in. It's not simply about identification.
http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.aspPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps - Outposts & Sov - Alliance Rank[/url] |
Shananigan
|
Posted - 2008.03.21 08:21:00 -
[142]
I think I've gotten past the identity part its more of me thinking CCP isnt looking at the fact that alot of people play around the world and that they cant just say your unable to be part of this because you dont have a passport yet. They need condingence for people who live in countries where passports arnt required as ID's. that way its equal for EVERYONE to be on the council. As I said I can easily get a passport by the time its required but impossible to get one in 2 weeks, thus I'm cegrigated from partisipating in this endevar because I'm American :(
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2008.03.21 10:45:00 -
[143]
you really need to get that chip off your shoulder. Most countries do not use passports as everyday ID's, the fact that only 30% of Americans have passports doesn't mean they are segregating you from applying. You just need a passport so they can make sure that if elected, you can travel. No point having 9 people elected all of whom can't travel as for some reason or another they can't get passports. This is the only way for ccp to vet those that can. ---------------------- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. The Amalgamated CSM Thread |
Ronmamita
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:22:00 -
[144]
This is a forward thinking move and overall a good thing. I applaud this effort. However, some hurdles to overcome are: 1) This simply becoming a vacation for the major Alliances and Mega-Corps. 2) Allowing the players at large to be able to remove an elected rep. if grievances are too severe. Perhaps a mid-term report and vote to retain/remove could be a consideration? 3) A representative that has a fresh new look toward Eve (a noob as a rep)? I learned several decades ago that a new and fresh look is a good thing. It combats complacency & "group think" where familiarity breeds a kind of blindness and resistance to improvements and change. So YES, include a noob seat on the council. After all we want Eve to grow new members and improve; don't we?
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Shananigan
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:39:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Omber Zombie you really need to get that chip off your shoulder. Most countries do not use passports as everyday ID's, the fact that only 30% of Americans have passports doesn't mean they are segregating you from applying. You just need a passport so they can make sure that if elected, you can travel. No point having 9 people elected all of whom can't travel as for some reason or another they can't get passports. This is the only way for ccp to vet those that can.
Yea I know the reasoning behind, I just want to run but cant, hopefully they will have more council elections sometime in the near future and give us a little more time to prepare when and if it happens again. I just dont like not being able to participate in this because I really enjoy this game and would love to be a part of the council. Of course it's not really going to matter, I probably wouldnt be elected because the larger corps will more than likely just elect there own members and CCP will be bogged by everyone who already knows this election is meaningless, and CCP just should of just picked the top members of the top 9 corps and gave it away to them. I hope at least one of the members will actually be there because they want to do something instead of just because there corp/allaince want more power in eve.
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Ed Bever
Six Sense Corp. CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.21 12:30:00 -
[146]
In The Netherlands you need to carry ID (card, passport or a parent with a passport containing proof of your identity) in order to leave the door without breaking the law.... Anyway, if you live in the EU, an ID-card is plenty to get to Iceland, and there for, plenty to apply to CSM. In the Netherlands, you can get an ID-card or passport when you're twelve. You just have to be removed from your parents passport. I would apply, if only I could have more time to spend on it. You see, I have my school to attend to And if I do this, I do it right. |
Omber Zombie
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:02:00 -
[147]
on another topic, i know the csm forum is going to be created soonÖ, but until then, where can we start our campaign threads? ----------------------
The Amalgamated CSM Thread | 1st Campaign Vid |
TimGascoigne
|
Posted - 2008.03.21 17:49:00 -
[148]
we need a vote for NO CSM this is not Democratic because itÆs coming whether we like it or notà.. People vote no to CSM lol we can not!
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Max Torps
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:19:00 -
[149]
I'm throwing may hat into the ring too.
And, there is a blog here. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. EvE blogspace, private groups and more
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Hardin
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:25:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Max Torps I'm throwing may hat into the ring too.
And, there is a blog here.
Nice one ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
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Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:56:00 -
[151]
Is there a quorum requirement or minimum vote requirment to make this election even valid or for a canidate to "win" a spot?
I ask this because judging by current intrest it seems that so far the whole CSM concept is not getting very much "positive" response from the Forum masses. Since we know that those active on the forums is roughly 10% of the total eve population base, this could mean that this elected body would be representive of 5% or even less of the total player base. Not exactly a good representive sample at all.
If such apathy continues, I can see some of the "less popular" canidates winning their position with low triple digit votes, which out of +200,000 active accounts is really sad.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe not, but if intrest in this new standard of Dev and Player base interaction does turn out to be very low, what does CCP plan on doing with the player base that is disenfranchised by the whole process, ignore them? --
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Treelox
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.03.21 20:22:00 -
[152]
I also think that CCP should include a way that those who abstain, maybe a "none of the above" option on the ballot. --
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Oftherocks
|
Posted - 2008.03.21 21:55:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 20/03/2008 13:32:12
Originally by: Grismar On the point of passports:
The original point still holds: those of us who have a European Identity Card can travel all over the EU (and Iceland) without a passport. They can pay taxes, vote, buy plane tickets and sign contracts, all without a passport. However, it would seem that they cannot join the CSM without a passport, which means they'll have to cough up the dough to get one just to be eligible.
This problem may be unclear to anyone living outside the EU (including those living in Iceland), but the OP made a good point and CCP should really consider relaxing the constraint 'passport or EU identity card', since they are equal for all relevant purposes within the full Schengen group.
The OP ? No, it was Akita T
And... yeah... seriously, I'm still waiting for an official answer. Can I use the picture of my expired passport + my valid Romanian ID card to apply ?
My passport expired 5 months ago, and I don't plan on getting a new one, since I don't plan on travelling outside the Schengen Zone (of which my country, Romania, is part of since January 2007)... and apparently, Iceland was a part of long before that (and still is, AFAIK, right now).
While I don't reside in the EU and have no idea how your id system works, it would seem very reasonable to accept a government recognized photo id. I don't think you should accept US driver liscences since they aren't recognized in Iceland, but if these EU identity cards are recognized by the government of Iceland, it would seem very unfair to require participants to shell out additional personal funds for a passport they don't need to travel to Iceland. I would think if you can get through customs with your EU id, that should be plenty.
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Resender
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:13:00 -
[154]
I like to know when you receive an confirmation of you're application Cause i filled in mine but when i clicked registered i got the feeling nothing happened
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Pooka
United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:41:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Pooka on 21/03/2008 22:42:30 I would like to apply but see now reason why a third party such as CCP needs a copy of my passport. They just need to know I have one which I do. Then it is between the Icelandic goverment and the USA goverment when I want to travel not CCP.
I don't send SEAMANs a copy of my passport when I plan to go to Germany and do some shopping. So why should I send a copy to CCP?
But since I am a solo carebear I have no chance in hell of winning. Although everyone in my corp would vote for me. All 3 of them!
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT BRING THE BRIGHT STAR BACK!!!
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Inanna Zuni
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Posted - 2008.03.22 00:02:00 -
[156]
For those commenting that they do not currently have a valid passport then apply next time around! This election campaign, with the voting in May, elects a council who will only serve for the following six months, and those elected can only serve once more (if they get re-elected) so over time all who want an opportunity to get involved will have the option to stand.
This first time around there is a straight "one account one vote" system; it may change in the future but that is what we have now.
So far as the EVE profile is concerned, it is around 40% north America, 40% Europe, and 20% rest of world, and less than 10% of pilots live in 0.0 space.
Personally, I feel that most of the really big Alliances already get their voices heard by the Devs and GMs; what is needed is some input and comment from those who mine, mission, manufacture and trade in Empire space.
And that is why I've decided to stand ...
IZ
http://inannazuni.com/Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.22 00:34:00 -
[157]
Application submitted, campaign site online.
Good luck to all who apply.
/Ben
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ThunderGodThor
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 06:26:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
It was decided very early on to require people to give up their real life names in order to run, and that the real life names were going to be made public. This is of course the first run of the new CSM and thus I will note down this observation and take it into consideration for the next term.
First off there is no real good reason to realease the real names of those on the CSM. There are a lot of bad ones. I mean with the metagamming and all. It doenst exactly take much imagaination. After all other then a few employees at ccp you all hide be hind your handles for very good reasons. So will you also in turn release the names of all ccp empolyees with there handles i think and hope not. One why not release the names of those who are the comintators in the alliance turny After all the forth turny determaned a lot where the nerf bat fell in Trinity.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.22 15:05:00 -
[159]
For those who are running I've started an informational thread in general discussion here. I hope it takes off, but the idea is to provide a single place people can go and find campaign info on those who are running as candidates.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:02:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
Those of ethnic minorities or living in a country where they are somehow oppressed might be discouraged by having to give their real life name.
I hope it wouldn't be the case that people discriminate on those sorts of grounds, but it is entirely possible someone could face real life consequences as some may take the online world to be an extension of such discriminations in RL
What happens if a candidate gets put in jail for partaking in democratic activities, even if only online?
Edit: is there a parallel scheme in China?
Nothing like this happening in China.
If you break the laws of your country you will face the consequences there I believe. Whether that is playing games for too long or supporting 'less than appreciated' political systems.
Btw, Happy Easter to everybody. Or if you do not share that particular faith, enjoy the holidays or the extra pay one gets working those day. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:04:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Treelox
To all the ppl whining about RL names being revealed, shame you didnt think about that before your hid behind your internet persona, or you can be cool like me and just not have any RL presence on the internet. I just fail to exsist on any search engines, as a RL entity.
Seriously though, I fully understand why RL names are required, not only from the PR standpoint, but as a counter balance to prevent players from abusing their "power" as a member of the council. Makes perfect sense. You wish to be a public figure, you give up the right to internet anonymity.
With all that said, sadly I think the only thing of any worth that will come out of this whole concept, is that a few people will get free tickets to iceland, some free meals, and a couple nights stay in a hotel room. Since I unfortunetly believe that this whole concept is already pre-nerfed, and really mostly being pushed forward as a PR spin to fix the allegations of direct Dev/GM meddling with ingame affairs.
Xhagen, I do appreciate the time and effort that you have put into this, but I will be shocked and awed if this actually even last more than 2 terms before it goes the way of most pet projects of the PR dept., ala weekly EveTV broadcast.
I will try and disappoint you by having the Council last for 5 years
And there is one general statement I would like to put forth in regards to the real life names. CCP can not guarantee that you will NOT be identified (perhaps through no fault of CCP's), so it is more honest and better for everybody that they know what will happen before they run. But this is one of the things that can be discussed in a council meeting. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:06:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Wadaya
My only question to Xhagen would be, are the "elected" players going to an actual representation of the Eve Demographic? Or will it be like Akita T surmises that it will just be a Top 9 popularity contest.
Real world governments believe that this is the best option to have the public state their preferences. I'm sadly not smart enough (yet!) to actually invent something better, but I'm working on it.
And just to make things clear, the method with the first CSM is not necessarily put in stone; we will learn from this experience and adjust/change as we can, what we can. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:08:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Grismar
Originally by: faxtarious only ask fro a pic of the pasport....isn't that kind of risky with Photoshop ?
I guess that depends on where you're from, but where I live forging a passport is a very serious offense. And since any passport can easily be checked with the country that issued it, I wouldn't monkey around with forgery.
Trying to get into a movie or even through customs with a fake id is one thing, sending someone a copy of a fake (passable or not) to pass off as real in a legal agreement is another...
Greetings, Grismar.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Additionally I would like to point out that by having real life persons participating in this matter, we have the entire bulk of the real life legal system behind us (or against us...) And again, CCP can not honestly protect your identity; thus it is better to simply tell everybody right away.
Additionally, your real world local laws will protect you against someone who wants to teach you how to do things in the council, if somebody is wondering about that. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:10:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Akita T
And... yeah... seriously, I'm still waiting for an official answer. Can I use the picture of my expired passport + my valid Romanian ID card to apply ?
No. CCP requires you to submit a scan of a fully valid passport with the application. If you can not, the application will be rejected. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:14:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Quote: EVE Online is going boldly where no other MMORPG has gone before. A player-elected council will hold court with CCP to help govern EVE Online _ s future. The Council of Stellar Management was unveiled to Fanfest goers last November, and has been a topic of intense discussion ever since. Now all the facts are at your fingertips. The new CSM blog is up and ready for your attention.
I hate to break it to you, but this is not "where no other MMORPG has gone before." In a failed attempt to improve customer relations, SWG attempted something very similar, forming a "Senate" of players to provide ideas and opinions on the direction of the game. They could introduce "bills" for chanages they wanted and vote on those changes. It was an attempt to show the playerbase that SOE actually listened to their players. Guess what? They didn't listen. The Senate's suggestions were largely ignored, and in a bit of poetic irony for Star Wars fans, it was dissolved. The only result was that the players grew more resentful of SOE and felt less like their concerns were being listened to and addressed.
I'm not saying that this won't work, but just a word of caution: if you (CCP) intend to do this, make darn sure that you will really follow through, be prepared to act on the ideas of your council, or you will only end up convincing the players that the whole thing is a sham and you had no intention of listening in the first place.
Oh, and to reiterate, it has been done before, so your news item is a bit of false advertising. I'd suggest changing it.
I did read through what SWG did. And what you apparently fail to notice is that Sony hand picked representatives from applicants. Just like CCP did back in 2003 with the original CSM. Secondly, from what I understand and some scoop from community managers, Sony did not prepare their council guys/gals for the fact that Senate didn't have any power. The entitlement the players got was overwhelming. And that was one of the largest criticism we got at Fanfest From Jessica Mulligan and Richard Bartle, to manage the expectations. We responded to that by spelling out, clearly and without any fancy words, "The CSM will not have any formal powers within CCP."
That is where SWG probably took a bad step and we try and learn from that. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:15:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Serenity Steele For all the comments about Passports:
I would hazard a guess that the requirement to have a passport-image is to ensure that anyone is voted onto the CSM will be capable of full-filling their responsibilities, and there is no dodgy mess around it after people are voted in. It's not simply about identification.
Correct.
We require a scan of a valid passport with the application. Otherwise the application will be rejected. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:17:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
on another topic, i know the csm forum is going to be created soonÖ, but until then, where can we start our campaign threads?
The CSM forum will only be for official discussion for the elected council and voters, i.e. to be opened up the same day the first council is announced.
Campaign where you can, when you can (in accordance to all TOSs etc.) ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:17:00 -
[168]
Originally by: TimGascoigne
we need a vote for NO CSM this is not Democratic because itÆs coming whether we like it or notà.. People vote no to CSM lol we can not!
There will be an "Abstain" option for those who wish to vote but does not like any of the candidates. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:18:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Winterblink
For those who are running I've started an informational thread in general discussion here. I hope it takes off, but the idea is to provide a single place people can go and find campaign info on those who are running as candidates.
I will be in contact with Winterblink (I'll get back to you after the weekend) and we will make something happen. I will monitor the thread he created for reactions to the idea. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:19:00 -
[170]
And to this thread, I am reading and I will respond. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Letouk Mernel
Blue Shell Corporation
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:50:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi I hate to break it to you, but this is not "where no other MMORPG has gone before." In a failed attempt to improve customer relations, SWG attempted something very similar, forming a "Senate" of players to provide ideas and opinions on the direction of the game. They could introduce "bills" for chanages they wanted and vote on those changes. It was an attempt to show the playerbase that SOE actually listened to their players. Guess what? They didn't listen. The Senate's suggestions were largely ignored, and in a bit of poetic irony for Star Wars fans, it was dissolved. The only result was that the players grew more resentful of SOE and felt less like their concerns were being listened to and addressed.
I'm not saying that this won't work, but just a word of caution: if you (CCP) intend to do this, make darn sure that you will really follow through, be prepared to act on the ideas of your council, or you will only end up convincing the players that the whole thing is a sham and you had no intention of listening in the first place.
It won't work. This is not WoW's community, where everyone is friends with everyone else, and helpful, and nice, and carebearish. This is EVE, where scamming and exploiting and aggressiveness is norm, and I don't know why CCP doesn't expect any of this to be directed their way.
Old names coming out of the woodwork to sign up, of course. Potential for exploiting your councillor position is great. Everyone's too addicted to remember that it's a 5 year old game on its way out. Reveal your RL names, go ahead. That's exploitable too.
Good luck.
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Erelas RyAlcar
Destinies Touch Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.03.24 02:32:00 -
[172]
There is, no reason, and as I stressed in the original thread and discussion of the second iteration of the CSM, for CCP to purposefully or inadvertently release the real names, or require that people whom wish to run for the CSM reveal their real names...to the general public.
Yes, it was decided to do so, but, there is no solid reasoning behind it.
The idea of EVE being remotely an MMORPG, is moot with the release of a players real identity. That's as civil about the matter as I can be. CLICK HERE TO HELP SAVE EVE-TV |
Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.24 08:32:00 -
[173]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: TimGascoigne
we need a vote for NO CSM this is not Democratic because itÆs coming whether we like it or notà.. People vote no to CSM lol we can not!
There will be an "Abstain" option for those who wish to vote but does not like any of the candidates.
How many NO votes would it take for this idea to be scrapped?
Wad
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:41:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Wadaya How many NO votes would it take for this idea to be scrapped?
There's a character name Abstain... They'll just give a seat to her. ^_^ ---
Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice. |
MGrind
Sanctuary Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.24 23:40:00 -
[175]
Edited by: MGrind on 24/03/2008 23:40:37 Question already answered. Just didn't see it. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:17:00 -
[176]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Akita T
And... yeah... seriously, I'm still waiting for an official answer.[/b] Can I use the picture of my expired passport + my valid Romanian ID card to apply ?
No. CCP requires you to submit a scan of a fully valid passport with the application. If you can not, the application will be rejected.
Bummer. 7 days left, I really doubt I could get a passport so fast without a good excuse or paying through the teeth. I guess it's up for the next election... deadline 1st of October 2008, I presume ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
Dealth Striker
Striker Ltd
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:20:00 -
[177]
It will be interesting to see who gets validated by CCP: - will it be based on where you live? (cost of flying you in)Be interesting to hear stories of others' travel to CCP when CCP has picked up the tab. - are you a 'Yes' person? - do you realize that a NDA is very strict? (worked for a gaming company) - not to be frustrated I would ask to see that before giving out my real name and definately before giving my passport copy to a company that has had internal 'problems'in the past. - hopefully the successful members get better communication than the general public (but I guess we will never know since the NDA will prevent that - lol)
The good points of this is: - an attempt of getting other people to help with PR for the company - good PR for a marketing campaign for more subscribers to help replace the ones that leave over the changes, bugs, nerfs, ganking, lag, etc. - CCP can say they tried
Hope I will be proven wrong but I feel CCP has thrown too many rules into the mix and tried to make it look open and fair.
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Nightay
Revenent Defence Corperation The Omni Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:29:00 -
[178]
It is with some concern that i look upon this thread and the implications of what this will mean for eve as a whole. Firstly a democratic election process has been set up within the eve community with intention of appointing an advisory council to work alongside CCP.
On the whole this idea seems fine and would give players a chance to influence the eve experience but I feel the process of selection will be very bias.It is basically going to be a popularity contest rather than a true representation of the eve client base.
Large corperations are going to dominate this process and for people like myself in smaller corps and not played eve for as long as some this looks an open and shut case.
There is going to be no new blood elected in this process and i feel that fresh and new ideas will never be brought up in a serious way unless you can bribe an electorate from one of the big corps to do it for you.
I already see the stale answers to every thread concerning changes within eve like the ui for instance and its mandetory go play wow attitude from older players. To be honest i dont care what older players want to keep static for themselves,I try to look at the game constructively but it seems difficult to be taken serious on a lot of matters as the forums show regularly.
The main point being that an elected core of old timers will effectively undermine any real changes and further alienate the new players like myself who will be training for years to never catch up in the end.
I personally think there should have been some form of election selection process to acertain how long each player has played and judge the votes relevant to that.
It is highly likely anyone not in a big corp and not played for 2 years at least would stand any chance in this process and i think that it wont benefit eve overall since there wont be a true representation of the player base in general.
As it seems to be said that minorities here will not or will be under represented in general the list of applicants can almost be written in the mind.You know the kinds that will apply and im sure most like me newish to eve wont even bother to get involved.
You only need read the forums to see how much negative responses are given to new player questions and ideas and this concerns me a lot if this kind of attitude is the elected one.
EVE isnt going to be the only large space mmo soon and i admit i am awaiting the arrival of a new title being advertised,i wont name it for respect to CCP.The point there is if myself already get a half hearted feel for eve after joining how many others begin to play and then feel like they are not sure what to make of it all.
Being flamed for making ideas and suggestions on the forums only bolsters the possibility that new players who will post and get involved will feel they have no say and move on to other things,afterall you are not really turning your back on the game if you were never really accepted and respected to begin.
If eve isnt carefull here they could create the situation where people like myself dont want the hassle and fight to make any point or idea for fear of being shot down and a bitter council of old timers who dont care for noobs as such and thus stifle the chance of eve moving forward.
If the representitives dont accurately represent the different levels of player in eve you wont have a democracy you will have a dictatorship.
This is the concerns i feel are an issue in all of this.I will be watching to see how this works out overall and the general forum attitude.This could be a grave mistake for CCP if the process gives a poor impression to people.
Allowing select players to meddle in the mechanics of an MMO is something that concerns me especially when i pay the robbing british price of play and almost know players at my end of the spectrum wont get a chance in hell of a voice in eve.
I may be way of the mark here but until its done we wont know for sure what will happen in the end,even CCP.
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Mitchay
S.K.AS
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:53:00 -
[179]
hi, I just got a question on the application process :
I dont have a passport actually, and time is pretty short to get me a new one until 1st of April.
Now I was reminded that Iceland as well as Germany are part of the Schengen zone, so I dont really need to have a passport to travel between those nations.
So I would like to know if its ok to provide a scan of my Personalausweis instead of a new Reisepass ?
Would that be ok, too ?
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Walter Model
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:35:00 -
[180]
Those who get elected. Will CCP offer free flight ticket to Iceland and Hotel for Iceland meeting?
If yes, even if you are coming from Japan or Denmark. CCP still offer free flight & Hotel?
_______________________________________________
"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows.", Guderian, 1937.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.26 22:35:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Bane Glorious on 26/03/2008 22:38:40
Originally by: Walter Model Those who get elected. Will CCP offer free flight ticket to Iceland and Hotel for Iceland meeting?
If yes, even if you are coming from Japan or Denmark. CCP still offer free flight & Hotel?
I believe the answer is yes.
Vote for me, by the way.
Website
edit: by the way, the EVE-Online.com forum software keeps screwing up URL parsing. The above link is just supposed to take you to http://eve-helldump.com, if that's any indication. |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.26 22:48:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Bane Glorious
Website
edit: by the way, the EVE-Online.com forum software keeps screwing up URL parsing. The above link is just supposed to take you to http://eve-helldump.com, if that's any indication.
Put the entire URL in the quotes next time.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Tyr Vaantau
Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.27 01:56:00 -
[183]
I am currently in the process of renewing my passport. It won't be ready for application but will be for June and even way before May, when it actually has to be used. I submitted the old one before it got sent off for renewal.
There was no way around this to be honest, since renewal takes so long (minimum 2 weeks, more if there is a massive backlog).
Will CCP be more pragmatic about this issue? Will it, say, ask people to provide valid passports before election date and then strike them off if they can't do it by then? All passports can be validated/renewed/created by 1 month, I hope (though my concern goes out to someone who might suffer from a very bad government administration).
I don't like the idea of being blocked from this position on account of bad timing with a passport renewal scheme. CCP should not either. ------
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SamuraiJack
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.03.27 03:42:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Bane Glorious
I believe the answer is yes.
Vote for me, by the way.
Website
edit: by the way, the EVE-Online.com forum software keeps screwing up URL parsing. The above link is just supposed to take you to http://eve-helldump.com, if that's any indication.
Goons want a voice in CSM?
Lets see... racist, bigoted, foul mouthed, obnoixious, sewer scum want to "further" Eve's progress? (See your own CEO's latest rant against eve and how Goons will crush all Eve before them)
After promising to destroy the game? Taking pride in being as offensive as possible? Threadnaughts like screaming children when they are ignored?
Sorry. No Deal.
I vote you are barred till you clean up your act.
DENIED. =-
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:50:00 -
[185]
You're welcome to vote against Bane or any other Goonswarm member who is standing but I don't think you get to decide who can run any more than you get to decide whether we kick out your entire alliance for you being a giant idiot.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:52:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Bane Glorious on 27/03/2008 04:59:10
Originally by: SamuraiJack
Originally by: Bane Glorious
I believe the answer is yes.
Vote for me, by the way.
Website
edit: by the way, the EVE-Online.com forum software keeps screwing up URL parsing. The above link is just supposed to take you to http://eve-helldump.com, if that's any indication.
Goons want a voice in CSM?
Lets see... racist, bigoted, foul mouthed, obnoixious, sewer scum want to "further" Eve's progress? (See your own CEO's latest rant against eve and how Goons will crush all Eve before them)
After promising to destroy the game? Taking pride in being as offensive as possible? Threadnaughts like screaming children when they are ignored?
Sorry. No Deal.
I vote you are barred till you clean up your act.
DENIED.
Being Jewish, I'd like it if you at least took the 'bigoted' part out of your reply. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.28 23:48:00 -
[187]
Wow, Samurai Jack is even more bitter about Goons booting his worthless alliance out of their home than -V- were
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.29 13:30:00 -
[188]
So how do I know whether my app got through or not? After I clicked register, I just got the blank application page again after a small wait, with no hint of an error but neither any hint like 'thank you for your application'. Nor did I receive any confirmation email.
When I try to register again now, I get 'Request.BinaryRead failed.!' in the top left corner. Is that good or bad? And if it accepted the registration, should I not get a page where I can view/edit it rather than the blank form again?
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2008.03.30 14:39:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar So how do I know whether my app got through or not? After I clicked register, I just got the blank application page again after a small wait, with no hint of an error but neither any hint like 'thank you for your application'. Nor did I receive any confirmation email.
When I try to register again now, I get 'Request.BinaryRead failed.!' in the top left corner. Is that good or bad? And if it accepted the registration, should I not get a page where I can view/edit it rather than the blank form again?
That sounds bad. I would re-submit if I were you. http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.aspPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps - Outposts & Sov - Alliance Rank[/url] |
Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2008.03.30 15:56:00 -
[190]
I would, if I could. But I get that error message. Would be really nice to hear some feedback from a CCP guy on what I am supposed to do...
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:10:00 -
[191]
I've created eve-csm.com to handle CSM info until something official arrives.
The purpose is also if anyone in the CSM would like have hosting, you get a sub-directory and FTP access gratis. Can't have the little guy without hosting suffer http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancerank.aspPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps - Outposts & Sov - Alliance Rank[/url] |
TornSoul
BIG Soul of Fountain
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Posted - 2008.03.30 21:45:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar I would, if I could. But I get that error message. Would be really nice to hear some feedback from a CCP guy on what I am supposed to do...
I've just submitted my app 30 mins or so ago - It worked fine then.
BIG Lottery |
Edna Sputum
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Posted - 2008.03.31 00:43:00 -
[193]
I am shocked that CCP would require entrants to send a passport scan in. Has the concept of personal privacy eroded so much to the point that It in not considered a big deal to send a copy of your passport to a private company?
In an age where Identity theft is rampant and made easier all of the time thanks to the massive connectivity of databases via the internet, I think we should be less inclined to give such personal data to a private entity, not more.
I couldn't find anything in a privacy policy to address this, so i am curious what CCP intends to do with all the passport scans received as part of the electoral process?
Are these scans to be destroyed once identity has been confirmed? Or are they to be destroyed after elections?
Has there been any thought given as to the fate of this data once its intended use has taken place?
I understand the reasoning for such stringent measures, CCP wants to be sure a ôReal personö gets elected and not some prank person, and that ôreal personö is actually able to travel to Iceland
But, a malicious person can easily fake an image of a passport. So, unless CCP has a means of verifying the scans with the passport holderÆs country of issue ( which would make me feel even less comfortable) the use of the scan as a means to prove identity is useless, and a bigger barrier of entry for a legitimate person than a malicious one.
Far as travel to Iceland, holding a passport does not guarantee someone is free to travel out of their country. Having an entrant Pledge that they are able to travel has as much weight as showing a scan of ones passport in this case.
CCP, is it standard procedure in Iceland (anywhere?) to take passport scans of your staff when you hire them? If not, why not?
I think Eve is a remarkable game, and the proposed CSM is a fantastic idea to continue to foster the on-line community around the game, that i would be thrilled and privileged to participate in.
That said, I am not comfortable giving up my personal identity documents to a privately held company in a foreign country just to have a chance at contributing to the game at a higher level.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
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Tyr Vaantau
Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.31 07:03:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Edna Sputum I am shocked that CCP would require entrants to send a passport scan in. Has the concept of personal privacy eroded so much to the point that It in not considered a big deal to send a copy of your passport to a private company?
In an age where Identity theft is rampant and made easier all of the time thanks to the massive connectivity of databases via the internet, I think we should be less inclined to give such personal data to a private entity, not more.
I couldn't find anything in a privacy policy to address this, so i am curious what CCP intends to do with all the passport scans received as part of the electoral process?
Are these scans to be destroyed once identity has been confirmed? Or are they to be destroyed after elections?
Has there been any thought given as to the fate of this data once its intended use has taken place?
I understand the reasoning for such stringent measures, CCP wants to be sure a ôReal personö gets elected and not some prank person, and that ôreal personö is actually able to travel to Iceland
But, a malicious person can easily fake an image of a passport. So, unless CCP has a means of verifying the scans with the passport holderÆs country of issue ( which would make me feel even less comfortable) the use of the scan as a means to prove identity is useless, and a bigger barrier of entry for a legitimate person than a malicious one.
Far as travel to Iceland, holding a passport does not guarantee someone is free to travel out of their country. Having an entrant Pledge that they are able to travel has as much weight as showing a scan of ones passport in this case.
CCP, is it standard procedure in Iceland (anywhere?) to take passport scans of your staff when you hire them? If not, why not?
I think Eve is a remarkable game, and the proposed CSM is a fantastic idea to continue to foster the on-line community around the game, that i would be thrilled and privileged to participate in.
That said, I am not comfortable giving up my personal identity documents to a privately held company in a foreign country just to have a chance at contributing to the game at a higher level.
CCP have yet to respond to my own queries about this, and it's been several days and applications close tomorrow. It's not only dodgy but also a bit unfair on applicants. I'm pretty sure that I won't be running for election now and it is solely on account of this issue blocking me from doing so despite the clear existance of fairer alternatives.
Oh, and I accidently pressed "report" instead of "quote" the first time, in case any mods are wondering about that. Sorry.
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:17:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Walter Model Those who get elected. Will CCP offer free flight ticket to Iceland and Hotel for Iceland meeting?
If yes, even if you are coming from Japan or Denmark. CCP still offer free flight & Hotel?
Yes to both questions. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:19:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Tyr Vaantau
I am currently in the process of renewing my passport. It won't be ready for application but will be for June and even way before May, when it actually has to be used. I submitted the old one before it got sent off for renewal.
There was no way around this to be honest, since renewal takes so long (minimum 2 weeks, more if there is a massive backlog).
Will CCP be more pragmatic about this issue? Will it, say, ask people to provide valid passports before election date and then strike them off if they can't do it by then? All passports can be validated/renewed/created by 1 month, I hope (though my concern goes out to someone who might suffer from a very bad government administration).
I don't like the idea of being blocked from this position on account of bad timing with a passport renewal scheme. CCP should not either.
You have to have a valid passport available in order to create a valid application. If the passport is not valid when you enter your application, it will not be accepted.
I must remind you all that there will be another election later this year (November I believe) so if you can't make it this time around, there will be another chance. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:19:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
I would, if I could. But I get that error message. Would be really nice to hear some feedback from a CCP guy on what I am supposed to do...
Try resizing the image. Some have encountered this when the image is above 200kb (for some reason). ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.03.31 09:25:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Edna Sputum
I am shocked that CCP would require entrants to send a passport scan in. Has the concept of personal privacy eroded so much to the point that It in not considered a big deal to send a copy of your passport to a private company?
In an age where Identity theft is rampant and made easier all of the time thanks to the massive connectivity of databases via the internet, I think we should be less inclined to give such personal data to a private entity, not more.
I couldn't find anything in a privacy policy to address this, so i am curious what CCP intends to do with all the passport scans received as part of the electoral process?
Are these scans to be destroyed once identity has been confirmed? Or are they to be destroyed after elections?
Has there been any thought given as to the fate of this data once its intended use has taken place?
I understand the reasoning for such stringent measures, CCP wants to be sure a ôReal personö gets elected and not some prank person, and that ôreal personö is actually able to travel to Iceland
But, a malicious person can easily fake an image of a passport. So, unless CCP has a means of verifying the scans with the passport holderÆs country of issue ( which would make me feel even less comfortable) the use of the scan as a means to prove identity is useless, and a bigger barrier of entry for a legitimate person than a malicious one.
Far as travel to Iceland, holding a passport does not guarantee someone is free to travel out of their country. Having an entrant Pledge that they are able to travel has as much weight as showing a scan of ones passport in this case.
CCP, is it standard procedure in Iceland (anywhere?) to take passport scans of your staff when you hire them? If not, why not?
I think Eve is a remarkable game, and the proposed CSM is a fantastic idea to continue to foster the on-line community around the game, that i would be thrilled and privileged to participate in.
That said, I am not comfortable giving up my personal identity documents to a privately held company in a foreign country just to have a chance at contributing to the game at a higher level.
There are three main reasons for asking for a scan of a passport. One is to verify that you do indeed have a passport so you are eligible to travel to Iceland. Two is to get an official identification so we can compare it to the ownership of the account used to run for the council. Third is that we have the entire legal frame behind us in regards to fraud; last time I checked faking passport is a serious crime.
Just a reminder; most modern passport have a 'bar code' that we do not receive or ask for, so we are only asking for partial information from the passport.
As to when the information will be destroyed, it will happen after the person has served a term for the CSM; i.e. we will hold on to this information while the person is a member of the council. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Juwi Kotch
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.03.31 20:49:00 -
[199]
Have applied today. Website and message will be added next weekend.
Juwi Kotch
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Erelas RyAlcar
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Posted - 2008.04.02 07:30:00 -
[200]
I have finally received a message back from my actual elected official, who can, if asked legitimately push passport requests through for solid reasons. His statement, "They want you to fax a scan of your passport to them, are they nuts?"
My reply, "They may be, but I am not." CLICK HERE TO HELP SAVE EVE-TV |
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Juwi Kotch
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Posted - 2008.04.02 07:57:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 02/04/2008 07:57:32
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Do you see yourself as an advisor? ...
Actually, the job title on my business card reads "Senior Advisor"...
Juwi Kotch
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:40:00 -
[202]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen And there is one general statement I would like to put forth in regards to the real life names. CCP can not guarantee that you will NOT be identified (perhaps through no fault of CCP's), so it is more honest and better for everybody that they know what will happen before they run. But this is one of the things that can be discussed in a council meeting.
I understand the need to manage expectations, and I think that this is a fair warning.
But I do not see why you need to make an exception to your ToS and EULA with regards to those on the CSM. Originally by: "Terms of Service" 5. You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.
19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberÆs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.
Originally by: End User License Agreement 8B. Personal Information CCP does not guarantee that personal information transmitted to the System, including without limitation information in your Account, will not be disclosed to third parties. While CCP's aim is to keep your personal information confidential and CCP employs security measures to protect the System, third parties may unlawfully intercept transmissions or private communications, or access data within the System. Additionally, CCP may (and you hereby expressly authorize CCP to) disclose information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials, as CCP, in its sole discretion, deems necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible crimes or to respond to judicial, regulatory, agency or similar inquiries.
I don't see why the CSM would not fall under these policies as is.
I completely understand why you would provide CSM canidates with the warning, that by running for and filling this position, they increase the likely hood that their personal information could be disclosed, which you have done, both explicitly in this thread and implicitly in the EULA.
However, I fail to see why you would go against the aim that you have set out in the EULA and the policy that you set forth in the ToS, with regards to revealing personal information, by proactively releasing the canidates names as you have implied that you will do.
If we have misunderstood you, and you do not plan to proactively release the names of canidates, please clarify your intensions.
If your intensions are still to publish a list of CSM member names and aliases, can you please explain why this is to be done?
Personally, I do not want to see such a list published, and would prefer that CSM members be refered to by their aliases, and the same policies that govern the disclosure of any other players' identity be applied to those on the CSM.
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EquintaZ
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Posted - 2008.04.05 07:34:00 -
[203]
When will a list with approved / validated CSM candidates be published and the candidates notified? :)
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MongWen
Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.05 10:51:00 -
[204]
I hope it will be soon on both to be honest.
------------------------- Vote MongWen For The CMS. [Campaign Site]
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Juwi Kotch
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.05 19:45:00 -
[205]
You may now find my campaign document here:
Campaign Document
Additionally, I have set up a board on my corporations boards, where you can ask questions, voice ideas, or offer help:
Discussion Board
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
D'ceet
Shadows of the Dead Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.07 05:13:00 -
[206]
there is information that needs to be modified under my section - the website i was working on is almost finished and i would like to have my little mission statement read as follows "trying to make the lagtastic voyage of EVE Online THAT much better. because no one likes 30 minute module activation lag."
i will edit this post when the website goes live.
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.07 13:15:00 -
[207]
Originally by: EquintaZ When will a list with approved / validated CSM candidates be published and the candidates notified? :)
As soon as I have finished verifying the applications
I am aiming at having the candidate names up for full 4 weeks (2 weeks before election period, 2 weeks during election period). ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:36:00 -
[208]
Will there be a "none of the above" option for the voting - like in RL voting, or will this be a "only X pilots voted so we blame it on lack of participation" rather than people being unhappy with it all?
IIRC Zapateros post of the EON awards, there was less pilots voting in total than pilots flying with the Goons. Which in that case made it pretty easy to blame lack of participation rather than maybe people being unhappy with the choices?
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
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Juwi Kotch
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:53:00 -
[209]
I'm just wondering, there are like 30 applicants there we know about right now, with all kind of flavors from kiddies who make fun of this to serious politicians who voice the one or other general position of EVE game play. What are you missing?
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
Ankhesentapemkah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:20:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch I'm just wondering, there are like 30 applicants there we know about right now, with all kind of flavors from kiddies who make fun of this to serious politicians who voice the one or other general position of EVE game play. What are you missing?
Juwi Kotch
Since I've been doing campaigning in game, I found there are people around that are distrustful of the whole process, and think all candidates will be puppets that just say what CCP wants them to say, that the decissions are already made, and that voting for one canditate or another will not change anything.
This is partially due to the "The CSM will not hold any real power" as seen in the article.
Then there are those that think large alliances will get enough votes for their candidates, and that their vote does not mean anything compared to those numbers, and that it is better not to vote at all in protest, than to vote for a candidate that they believe does not have much of a chance.
That and there is a disgruntled whiny crowd that thinks that everything CCP does is bad by definition, and must be opposed in one way or another.
I don't share any of these viewpoints, I'm just clarifying. ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. I invite you to take a look at the campaign website for issues and further information. Visit our Campaign Website |
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CCP Xhagen
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.11 15:18:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Chribba Will there be a "none of the above" option for the voting - like in RL voting, or will this be a "only X pilots voted so we blame it on lack of participation" rather than people being unhappy with it all?
IIRC Zapateros post of the EON awards, there was less pilots voting in total than pilots flying with the Goons. Which in that case made it pretty easy to blame lack of participation rather than maybe people being unhappy with the choices?
There will be an 'abstain' option. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Candy
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.13 03:58:00 -
[212]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
Originally by: Chribba Will there be a "none of the above" option for the voting - like in RL voting, or will this be a "only X pilots voted so we blame it on lack of participation" rather than people being unhappy with it all?
IIRC Zapateros post of the EON awards, there was less pilots voting in total than pilots flying with the Goons. Which in that case made it pretty easy to blame lack of participation rather than maybe people being unhappy with the choices?
There will be an 'abstain' option.
Will it be possible to vote against the concept entirely? That is, to vote to prevent the creation of such a council?
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 18:27:00 -
[213]
What harm could such a Council do, that you see a need to prevent it?
Juwi Kotch
Discussion Board |
Candy
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:28:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch What harm could such a Council do, that you see a need to prevent it?
Juwi Kotch
First and foremost, it gives a large amount of power to a small group of individuals, a concept that has consistently failed on the Internet from day one. Second, that small group of individuals will inevitably end up representing the large player blocs and not the playerbase as a whole (see "of the Year" voting for an example of this kind of popularity contest). Third, it will allow CCP to assign responsibility for failures and mistakes to those entrusted with overseeing it's progress. "Don't like a new feature or content change? Not our fault, you picked these guys." Finally, it does what so many other government entities mistakenly do, and that is to put decisions that should be handled by experts into the hands of people who are not by any reasonable measure.
The whole purpose of this council was to allow a select group of players behind the scenes access to make sure that the game is run fairly. That's all. Since then, it has morphed from a simple mechanism for oversight into a full-fledged Board of Directors.
In short:
A 'No Council' choice would allow someone to vote to maintain the careful, incremental changes to the game instead of entrusting it's future to a group of rabid sensationalists.
Note: If you've picked up on the general distrust I have in any 'novel' form of government, it's because I've lived in the US my entire life.
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:52:00 -
[215]
I agree with Candy.
If you want democracy, then give us the right to choose between your CSM format and something else. Otherwise, this feels like a digitization of everything wrong in modern government, namely, having to pick between individuals who'll speak on their own behalf and face zero accountability for it.
Alternatives to your CSM;
- A monarchy, with established methods of obtaining royalty status, complete with lineage and order of succession. - A socialist republic - A technocracy - Bi-monthly CSMs done in a simple chat channel |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:54:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Candy First and foremost, it gives a large amount of power to a small group of individuals, a concept that has consistently failed on the Internet from day one.
No, the power is minuscule and influential only. I don't know where such has been tested already, and if that has failed or not. The concept and structure as demonstrated by CCP looks good to me, and offers chances to actually succeed in my understanding.
Originally by: Candy Second, that small group of individuals will inevitably end up representing the large player blocs and not the playerbase as a whole (see "of the Year" voting for an example of this kind of popularity contest).
You should read the main CSM document, and look at the list of the candidates. There are many who do not belong to one of the big power blocks, and the method to bring up topics allow to that to all who are interested. If only the power blocks are interested, well, then it is that way, just like the fact that 90% of all EVE pilots live in Empire, and thus probably carebear issues will domain. Interestingly, the powerblocks are all 0.0...
Originally by: Candy Third, it will allow CCP to assign responsibility for failures and mistakes to those entrusted with overseeing it's progress. "Don't like a new feature or content change? Not our fault, you picked these guys."
No, it is clearly stated, that the CSM has no powers at all, but voicing positions. Any decision will be fully on part of CCP.
Originally by: Candy Finally, it does what so many other government entities mistakenly do, and that is to put decisions that should be handled by experts into the hands of people who are not by any reasonable measure.
There are many candidates which have many years of experience in MMOGs in general or in EVE in particular. What expertise do you expect they don't have?
Originally by: Candy The whole purpose of this council was to allow a select group of players behind the scenes access to make sure that the game is run fairly. That's all. Since then, it has morphed from a simple mechanism for oversight into a full-fledged Board of Directors.
I don't see this. Actually, nothing at all has changed since the first idea was presented, only details have been added.
Originally by: Candy In short:
A 'No Council' choice would allow someone to vote to maintain the careful, incremental changes to the game instead of entrusting it's future to a group of rabid sensationalists.
You are assigning much more power to the CSM members as they have. The individual member cannot do much at all. The CSM as a body is a tool the EVE community can use to voice their wishes ans opinions to CCP. If that tool is powerful or not, we will see. After we have had the first CSM in action, we can start to judge.
Juwi Kotch
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 19:57:00 -
[217]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist I agree with Candy.
If you want democracy, then give us the right to choose between your CSM format and something else. Otherwise, this feels like a digitization of everything wrong in modern government, namely, having to pick between individuals who'll speak on their own behalf and face zero accountability for it.
Alternatives to your CSM;
- A monarchy, with established methods of obtaining royalty status, complete with lineage and order of succession. - A socialist republic - A technocracy - Bi-monthly CSMs done in a simple chat channel
Just to reiterate again, the CSM members can hardly do anything on their behalf. There will be a quite elaborately structured method in place to collect the EVE communities wishes what the CSM presents before CCP. You may read more about that on the general CSM paper linked to at the original topic of this thread, in particular pages 16 and 17.
Juwi Kotch
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Candy
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.04.13 20:28:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch Truncated in the interest of post size reduction. See above.
Clearly there is a disagreement. You think there should be a council, I don't. You have the opportunity to support it's creation, I have no means to vote against it. Why not, in the interest of fairness and full participation, allow those of us who disagree with you to have a say?
Also, I've carefully read the document and examined the candidates. My concern is not the amount of power they have, but the fact that they have any at all. Either they have enough power to make serious changes to the game, and there is cause for concern, or they don't, and they have no purpose at all.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist - A monarchy, with established methods of obtaining royalty status, complete with lineage and order of succession.
This should also be another voting option. |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 20:45:00 -
[219]
You're correct, we have different opinions here. And I have never said that I'm opposing an option to vote against such a council, I only wanted to know why you are thinking such a possibility is needed.
The power of the CSM is only influential. The CSM cannot get anything done against the will of CCP. In that case, it would be in fact powerless and unnecessary. But that is not the point. The CSM is a step to and part of a more formalized approach to gather the player base's opinions and to get it discussed in more productive way then via boards.
I'm optimistic that this is a good idea and has some potential. If that really works out, we will see. It will probably need a few CSMs until everything is worked out, but it is a beginning. If CCP does not give it any chance to do what it is set up to do, it will deteriorate into a free trip system to Iceland for some players and be cancelled earlier or later. It will be one of the major tasks of the first two or three CSMs to avoid this.
Juwi Kotch
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.15 09:28:00 -
[220]
Candy & DC make fair points. For a long time I felt pretty much the same way, questioning the need for the CSM to begin with. But it's been clear from the beginning that CCP have wanted to make this happen (even if the original scope has changed somewhat with time), so instead of fighting the system, I chose to work within it and see what - if anything - could still be accomplished.
Perhaps for future CSMs, players could be given the opportunity to vote yes or no for each candidate. That way, people who can't decide between multiple candidates could vote for each of them, and those who oppose the system entirely can vote no to everyone. Granted, it's not quite the same as saying no to the system itself, but it's the next best thing for those who feel that way.
If nothing else, it would be interesting to see if anybody's net vote count would even be positive as a result.
/Ben
Ben Derindar: Eve CSM candidate
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.04.17 12:34:00 -
[221]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist I agree with Candy.
If you want democracy, then give us the right to choose between your CSM format and something else. Otherwise, this feels like a digitization of everything wrong in modern government, namely, having to pick between individuals who'll speak on their own behalf and face zero accountability for it.
Alternatives to your CSM;
- A monarchy, with established methods of obtaining royalty status, complete with lineage and order of succession. - A socialist republic - A technocracy - Bi-monthly CSMs done in a simple chat channel
I'm not claiming that the first run will be perfect. But we are going ahead with it and will then take further steps when we will have further information. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.04.17 12:36:00 -
[222]
Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 17/04/2008 12:38:47 The candidate application have been reviewed and mail to all applicants has been sent out.
In total we received 97 applications, of them 64 were accepted and 33 were rejected. The reason for rejection was mostly due to the application itself not being properly filled out, or the passport was either not supplied by the applicant or it was an invalid passport.
The official candidate section will be published before the coming weekend.
Further information will be published once I have complied them.
The voting period will open up the 5th of May and be open for two weeks.
____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.17 14:21:00 -
[223]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen
In total we received 97 applications, of them 64 were accepted and 33 were rejected.
OMG, all the people I wanted to vote for have been rejected!!! I have nobody left I want to vote for...
Oh, wait, that's real life
Looking forward to the published list of candidates and the official start of the campaign season.
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.17 14:44:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Candy
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Truncated in the interest of post size reduction. See above.
Truncated in the interest of post size reduction. See above.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Truncated in the interest of post size reduction. See above.
I think there is a mistake in perception, the CSM has no power to change things, the game is in fact the intellectual property of CCP, and to offer up the power to change that property would be a really bad idea...
The Power the CSM has is they are allowed to ask questions and CCP has in fact promised to answer... how many times have we posted issues and problems we have seen, the thread grows to 5, 6, 10 pages... and there is no reply from CCP? When the CSM asks a question on our behalf, CCP has stated they will answer...
The problems I see with the CSM at this point is there are so many expectations from the ill-informed player base that seem to think the CSM will have power to fix things, and when there are few if any changes, they will give up on it...
The other side of the coin is just as bad, if CCP totally ignores the CSM (uses it for propaganda and advertisements only) fails to live up to their side of the bargain as it were, and I think the CSM will be more of an anchor then an Afterburner...
We need to both keep our sceptisim and hopes in check, voice our opinions and read the replies, but lets reserve our final opinions on the validity of the CSM until after the fact, if it crashes and burns, I will be right there with you to decry the failure, but until that time, I will try to keep an open mind and give it the benifit of the doubt.
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:30:00 -
[225]
Candidate list is up ladies and gents.
Here it is. |
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Zubb Ionesco
Audentia et Artis
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:52:00 -
[226]
Eligible are only those who can afford to fly to Island, so do what you want but please don't call this farce "democratic". I call to boycott this election. ----------------- Never knock on Death's door. Ring the bell and run! Death hates that. |
Hardin
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2008.04.18 20:04:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Hardin on 18/04/2008 20:04:14
Originally by: CCP Xhagen Candidate list is up ladies and gents.
Here it is.
Thanks. Just to point out that at present the list of candidates incorrectly links my site:
The proper URL is:
http://hardinfaq.blogspot.com/
Please can you correct this!
Cheers
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.19 06:30:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Zubb Ionesco Edited by: Zubb Ionesco on 18/04/2008 17:01:58 Eligible are only those who can afford to fly to Island, so do what you want but please don't call this farce "democratic". I call to boycott this election.
PS: just read inside the list of canditates... they are either naive-eagerly fools or they just making fun of the whole thing. Hardly any seems adult and serious enough to come into question for acting in the name of other people. And certainly not in mine!
since the first statement you made is based on you not reading or comprehending, you may want to re-evaluate your second statement.
also, the website listed for me is wrong on the official list - the site is http://omberzombie.wordpress.com/ ----------------------
CSM 08 Blog | 1st Campaign Vid |
HelloDolly
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Posted - 2008.05.20 04:17:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Tasko Pal What is the mechanics of the actual vote? Do I just vote for one CSM candidate and the top X of them become part of the CSM? Could someone point me to documentation about that?
This is detailed in the PDfs linked to in the head post. Each account gets one vote. The nine candidates with the most votes are appointed to the CSM and the following five candidates become the alternates.
IZ (http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf page 15) Thank you for answering that question. Unfortunately I did not know the answer prior to voting. CCP, for the future, please see to it that voting instructions are placed more prominently. A simple note on the candidate page could have helped along with a link to the above mentioned .pdf file.
I wonder if it was intentional to force voters to log in prior to viewing candidate details. I would prefer that it not have been. Rather than the official candidate page, I found it easer to Find and view (via an external web browser) the candidates at http://www.eve-csm.com/.
I did appreciate the official candidates page (once found) and the offering of web server space for the candidate home pages.
I look forward to working with the council on new player related concerns.
Thank you for making the election happen.
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manasi
Ceptacemia Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:23:00 -
[230]
Edited by: manasi on 21/05/2008 14:23:37 Could we get results? Today? It is after DT....I thought that today was the day and there would be much fanfare etc...perhaps not?
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.05.21 20:25:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Admiral Nova on 21/05/2008 20:28:52 It looks like based on the results the top 9 candidates were elected on 53.3% of the votes, the other 47% of voters in the end had no say at all.
The average vote of the top 9 was 1408 votes, which means that had they been able to express their preferences at least 7 of the 9 elected could have easily been replaced with others, prefered by the majority. We simply were given an election system where people were punished for supporting candidates that were less likely to win by essentially having their vote thrown out. A more representative system allows preference to be taken into account.
You required less than 3% of the vote to gain a position, representing 11.1% of the population. You infact only required 0.028% of the active accounts to vote for you, to represent 11.1%
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Zathi Shaitan
Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:09:00 -
[232]
Congratulations to everyone who won.
You are now, oficially, the cheapest consultants a gaming industry company has ever employed. ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Kalmanaka
Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.24 14:13:00 -
[233]
This thread is a psychiatrists wet dream. There are so many people suffering from paranoia here. Whooo hoooo!
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