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Minigin
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Posted - 2008.03.22 11:41:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Minigin Without even reading this thread... let me wade in here and yell at you all.
This is the single most ******** situation I have ever seen in EVE. Just before the first revelation patch people where starting to catch onto the whole istab/nano craze and admittedly it was very broken. Because using basic t1 ****ty equipment with no implants or drugs would get you to speeds where you could outrun any dps possibly dished out.
So what did ccp do? THEY FIXED IT! It now costs 100s of millions more to get the ships to half the speed they used to get. What does this mean? I think its pretty simple really... If you are willing to pay more for a ship + implants and put in the hard yards to skill for a t2 ship with t2 modules... you deserve an edge.
We have seen that nano gangs are far from invincible... Everyone loses nanoships frankly because their strength is their weakness in that it usually doesn't require much of a tank. If anyone is smart enough to neut or web them... oh mama they are in trouble.
But instead of actually fighting the ships in game... you fools come here on the forums and want ccp to fight them off for you? Get real...
What happens if CCP does nerf them... then the same people come back in remote repping ravens and make fools of you? Complain about that also? Then what are we left with... everyone sitting in a drake?
If you ******* pay for 3bill highgrade snakes... you deserve to have a BIG edge.
If you want to continue flying ****ty t1 cruisers and cry about the big bad nano menace... train something and start saving isk.
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 11:15:22
Quote: The issue for mine is that some layouts result in stupid things. Try catching an 18km/s claymore for example. That's right 18km/s. Now that is insane and requires adjustment.
just to give an example of what i was talking about earlier...
Claymore - 150m polycarbs - 120m core x-type 100mn microwarpdrive - 150m(i think) faction cap recharger fit - 100m hg snakes - 3b
the look on that t1 cruisers face? priceless.
you want risk vs reward? how would you like to pay 3.5b to have a shot at that ship?
. MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =) Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.22 14:39:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Silencio Nohay'Banda Nanos are not a problem as they have counters just like everything else... they're paper thin once you manage to put a web on...
Rapiers, Huggins, Curses, Webbing Drones, BS sized Neuts, ceptors all can stop nano ships.
And might I add that too many people give their own theory about "how eve should be"...
IMO nanoships are fun to fly and fly against gives an extra spice to the game. If everything was exactly the same it would be boring...
thank you. you are one of the few people these days who has a brain.
The problem is... no one can accept blame for their own mistakes. People who lose ships look for any excuse for it not to be their fault, "oh i lagged out..." "oh my gang didnt support me" "oh nanos are just unfair..."
my personal favourite "the other side was spawning shuttles everywhere..."
I encourage people to think about what went wrong... and how they can change the outcome next time... rather than just cry foul because they couldn't fly out their insured mega and take on 4 nanohacs. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 22:39:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
but the same can be said about any ship class... if you are in a battleship and have a wingman of a falcon and a scout... there is no real encounter that you should not be able to avoid or disengage.
So whats next? we nerf tanks so that if you engage on one side of the gate you die on that side?
Or maybe we should just start letting people win fights by typing the number of people in their gang in a square box by the side of their screen. Whoever has more ships is instantly guaranteed victory and the other team has its ships blown up by a dev.
I like where this is going.
EVERYTHING IN ******* EVE IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE GEARED TO BLOB WARFARE! THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS! AND ILL BE ******* DAMNED IF IM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND SHOUT ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS GET IN GAME AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT YOUR OWN INCOMPETANCE RATHER THAN BLAME IT ON SOMETHING THAT IS SO OBVIOUSLY WELL BALANCED AND ALLOWS HIGHER SKILLED, RICHER PILOTS(and perhaps most importantly and correctly like darkness said - people who actually know how to fly these ships) TO FIGHT BLOBS!
The correlation between how much you spend on your ship, how many skills you have, and how well you know how to fly it(in particular this one i think) is not limited to nanohacs. The question is now not whether nanos should be nerfed... but if any successful pvp strategy should be?
OMGOMGOMGOGMGOMGOGMOGMGOM U HAS MONEY & SKILLZZZ???? YOU MUST BE HAXSPLOITING!!!I1!!111111!oneeleventyone1
. MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:29:00 -
[4]
so basicaly what you are saying is there is no way to make a bad choice using a nano ship?
you can only ever **** up if you are in a tanked ship?
because i have a lot of kill and loss mails that prove otherwise. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:53:00 -
[5]
why is this thread still going on... i won it on page 9.
quit your complaining. there is no nano problem, only the same problem that has plagued the world for thousands of years - stupid people who don't think. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Goumindong
E.G. make a payout matrix for nano-ships currently. 1= win, 0 = escape, -1= loss
____________________Tanked____/__Nano Opponent: Smaller Nano___________0______/___1 Larger Nano___________-1______/__-1 Smaller tanked_________1______/___1 Larger tanked_________-1______/___0
Total:________________-1______/___1
The rational choice beomomes to always nano, [nearly]regardless of the size of your gang.
by far the stupidest thing said in this thread to date. when eve is reduced to a matrix like that... there is no point to even pvp.
the reason we go out and pvp is to do what is not expected. to win outnumbered and out gunned. That matrix you set up takes no consideration for the intelligence of the pilot.
eg. a crow can kill a megathron if the mega does not have a neut fitted, but a mega can kill a crow if he has a point and neut and mwd fitted.
pvpers roll the dice and see what happens. you can say "oh look there is a nano gang that has less pilots than our blob gang... the outcome is already decided! we know exactly how this well end!"
totally ridiculous.
i guarantee... if nanos are nerfed... the same people flying them will still kick your arses, not because they cheat... but because they are smarter than you and can fit/fly ships better.
thus my solution to stop idiots crying about unfair pvp tactics is nerf every ship except the drake. and no one will ever complain again. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Minigin on 25/03/2008 12:15:56 Edited by: Minigin on 25/03/2008 12:14:20
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Minigin why is this thread still going on... i won it on page 9.
quit your complaining. there is no nano problem, only the same problem that has plagued the world for thousands of years - stupid people who don't think.
These people simply don't like a certain style of play, they don't care about balance since they're always eager to dismiss ANY tactic that works against nanos simply because.. they don't like it.
tbh i think what they dont like is that they cant kill a ship worth a lot more than theirs with 3 ****ty fitted cheap insurable ships simply because they have the numbers. edit: perhaps the worst part is... there are some very cheap setups that can be very effectivly used against nanos, people just refuse to think. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin But what if they suck
You cannot balance a game based on people sucking. Skills, skill, luck, not knowing optimal play, and all the other reasons are never good reasons to balance.
When you are balancing[and when playing of course], you absolutely should be looking at payoff matrices and/or trees to try and determine an optimal play.
you are unbelievably stupid. matrices are not how pvp works. It works on skill ability and intelligence. Of course there will be tactics that are better than others! That is the whole point of pvp! To find a tactic that works!
But there is no single tactic in eve that is "unbeatable" which people are trying to portray nanos as.
In fact... i would think of nanos as very vulnerable ships...
They are so easy to kill! SO EASY! If people are too stupid to kill them... its not ccps business to keep the noobs safe.
I quote a GM: "Eve does not just look like a cold dark place... it is a cold dark place." If you cant cop that... go to wow or something where the learning curb isnt as steep and you can win win win from the get go.
If you want a challenge... if you want your intelligence to be stimulated, if you want to prove yourself. Stick around, stop complaining... and fly the ships you need to to win.
. MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:58:00 -
[9]
so on one side... we have this guy: Gouminsomething or other
Telling us that nanos work by matrix. And how overpowered they are because he has run ALL the maths he can on something he cant possibly understand.
Then we look at his killboard stats and notice "hang on... this guy has 123kill all which have been in blob warfare... and he flys nothing larger than a battle cruiser mostly."
This proposes several interesting ideas to me... could this young gentleman be attempting to gear this game more towards blob warfares aid? And if his changes are implemented... and things such as the remote shield transferring raven becomes more common and starts to fight blobs again... will he still be complaining? i think so.
The mentality that a lot of alliances including goonswarm impose almost subliminally into their members is... "hey there are lots of us... throw big groups at those small gangs out there and we will win." These people go out... get slaughtered... then complain that its not their alliances fault for being a largely unskilled untalented un-fced blob, but its the other guys fault for being better than they are.
Well guys... lets do something that i dont think is true... and for a second believe this ridiculous argument that nanos are out of line...
If nanos are really that good... why dont you guys complaining fly them...? ill tell you why... because they are genuinely hard to fly.
They cost 3-4 times more than the average bs and can not be insured. To work well you MUST have at least 3% implants which set up. Then heres the real clincher...
They dont have a respectable tank. Which means if there are more than 2 interceptors on the field(assuming the people you are fighting arnt stupid... WHICH IS A HUGE ASSUMPTION THESE DAYS)... your probably going to die.
They require a lot of micro management, you have to watch a lot more on your screen than other people do. You also have to know and gamble on other peoples setups.
Its not easy to do. You guys who have never flown it before look out your window and see an Ishtar flying outside your mega going at 4km/s and scream overpowered... but do you know the effort that goes into fitting the ship? the practice that went into being able to survive in a ship that fragile? No you arnt thinking of that... because all you have ever done is fly harbingers and geddons, which lets face it... arnt intended to work the same way as nanoships.
So what you are really calling for here is standardizing of eve... so that every ship is on even footing... which essentially eliminates tactics almost entirely... when everyone is in a drake what the hell is the point of tactics. Which means no one can pay more or train more to get an edge over a blob... the blob will ALWAYS win. ALWAYS.
and i think the fact that the stern mind running that argument is in goonswarm speaks volumes about his experience and intentions.
And lets face it... the reason people dont fly nanos is because
a)they dont know how b) they dont have the skills c) they dont have the isk
Heres a matrix of my own.
Stupid people vs. smart people more stupid less smart: -1 | 1 equal numbers: -1 | 1 larger numbers of smart people: -1 | 1
This was proven through maths... that smart people are better than stupid people... lets nerf smart people. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:11:00 -
[10]
is this where you want the game to go ccp? everyone is equal regardless of skill and isk? the only advantage is blob?
welcome to WoW. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 00:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goumindong
Quote: Telling us that nanos work by matrix
No, simultaneous games are defined by a matrix which represents the choices the participants can make.
Originally by: Minigin
Then we look at his killboard stats and notice "hang on... this guy has 123kill all which have been in blob warfare... and he flys nothing larger than a battle cruiser mostly."
On battleclinic yes. But i don't post my kills on battleclinic.
Quote:
If nanos are really that good... why dont you guys complaining fly them...? ill tell you why... because they are genuinely hard to fly.
They cost 3-4 times more than the average bs and can not be insured. To work well you MUST have at least 3% implants which set up. Then heres the real clincher...
They are not genuinely hard to fly and do not cost 3-4 times the average BS. Now, they are un-insurable, but they are not the cost you think.
Nano's really are that good and we fly them pretty much all the time. I don't as much, since i don't do as much roaming, and am too poor to afford zealots[or battleships really].
Quote:
They dont have a respectable tank. Which means if there are more than 2 interceptors on the field(assuming the people you are fighting arnt stupid... WHICH IS A HUGE ASSUMPTION THESE DAYS)... your probably going to die.
Really, 2 interceptors is all it takes?
Quote:
Its not easy to do. You guys who have never flown it before look out your window and see an Ishtar flying outside your mega going at 4km/s and scream overpowered... but do you know the effort that goes into fitting the ship? the practice that went into being able to survive in a ship that fragile? No you arnt thinking of that... because all you have ever done is fly harbingers and geddons, which lets face it... arnt intended to work the same way as nanoships.
Actually the Harbinger can work surprisingly similar. Fit either for speed or web range, its quite agile and doesn't need to move much to deal DPS.
Quote:
So what you are really calling for here is standardizing of eve... so that every ship is on even footing... which essentially eliminates tactics almost entirely... when everyone is in a drake what the hell is the point of tactics. Which means no one can pay more or train more to get an edge over a blob... the blob will ALWAYS win. ALWAYS.
No, we just want tactics to work both ways where as a non-nano gang can use tactics to kill nanos.
you are determined to assert your stupidity here arnt you.
1. you openly admitted you dont fly nanos... so obviously you can tell me how hard they are to fly compared to other ships.
2. you then said they dont cost much. you are totally ********... my nanoishtar sets me back 3-400m excluding t2 drones that i have to replace.
3. battleclinic picks up your mails from the goonboard. As it does with all major alliances.
4. you are a terrible pvper
5. you are a terrible poster
6. you are a goon...
7. "No, we just want tactics to work both ways where as a non-nano gang can use tactics to kill nanos."
THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN YELLING AT YOU TO DO!!! YET YOU SEEM INSISTENT THAT THE ONLY TACTIC YOU WANT TO USE IS BLOB WITH BATTLESHIPS NEVER USE NEUTS NEVER USE WEBS NEVER USE TACKLE AND JUST WIN!
You just proved my entire case. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin
1. you openly admitted you dont fly nanos... so obviously you can tell me how hard they are to fly compared to other ships.
2. you then said they dont cost much. you are totally ********... my nanoishtar sets me back 3-400m excluding t2 drones that i have to replace.
3. battleclinic picks up your mails from the goonboard. As it does with all major alliances.
1. This if false.
2. Then you fit your ishtar like an idiot or spend way to much than you need. Assume 10m-20m for mods, 90m for the hull, and hell, lets estimate high, 90m for polycarbs, brings you to 190-200m.
half of your supposed cost.
Now fit out, say, an abaddon, 150m hull, 80m trimarks, 30m mods puts you back 250m, 300m after insurance payed, 150m after insurance received. Puts the final cost pretty close actually, especially since i didn't factor ammo in for the Abaddon and its more expensive than drones.
3. No it doesn't. For instance, its missing my last death in a rifter, and 3 full harbingers in qy6, probably more.
Its also missing about 95 kills since it seems logs pods in the main kill section.
As for the rest of it....
its a good thing i know what im talking about so i can prove you are lying through your teeth here.
1. this is true(see how easy it is to make unsubstantiated claims)
2. 100m for the hull, 20m for the mods, 120m for the polycarbs, 120m for the implants THAT IS YOUR COOKIE CUTTER SETUP! oh look at that... isnt that number between 300 and 400m! WOW YES IT IS!
Abbadon cost: 150m for the hull(but realisricaly with insurance the hull is worth 40m). 45m for 3 trimarks... i dont know where you got 80m... 30m mods.
best part is you think the abbadons ammo costs more than drones... you buy the abbadons ammo once... and never again replace it till you die... i have to ******* pay 10m on drones ever time i want to go out pvping. You are a HUGE noob who doesnt know what he is talking about.
look at that... 1/3 the cost.
please provide me with a link to your kills and losses so i can laugh at you more. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Minigin on 26/03/2008 01:31:39
Originally by: Labienus ECCM fitted logistics ships/projected eccm. Plus remote reps on BS etc(helpful?) Interceptor, faster than a Hac..My crow goes 6kms and 9km/s with overheat, unrigged and t2 fitted. Fly at nano ship. Activate Point, Activate Web(with logsitics remote reps helping you) nano ship slows down...gets hit by guns...dies..Rinse, Repeat.
Will make your interceptors last longer, if you are smart and many logisitics have good remote rep range.
OH LOOK! A CHEEP AND EFFECTIVE TACTIC THAT ISNT BLOBBING!!!! THIS MUST NOT BE DOABLE!!! I INSIST THAT NANOS ARE NERFED BECAUSE THEY ARE TOOOOOOOOOO OVERPOWERED! LULULULL!
Look at how easy it is to counter nano tactics people... dont delude yourselves that you have a tactic when going up against nanohac gangs when you just type in alliance gang x - defence op then undock and sit in a group with your friends in whatever you have left in your hanger...
THAT IS NOT A TACTIC! THAT IS WHY YOU LOSE! . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: And last time I checked it was just a game you know...
I agree. Therefore, lets give nanofaggotry a good stiff nerfing to make the game a more fun place.
And I mean, who would complain about the nerfing? Afterall, it's just a game...
if that is Caldari Provisions official stance on the matter then i suppose CCP will be forced to listen to this compelling and well thought out argument. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:42:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Minigin on 26/03/2008 01:43:22
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 26/03/2008 01:34:09 1. Yes, you are making unsubstantiated claims...
2. You are getting ripped off for polycarbs and implants[which you don't need and are just as expensive as those for an abaddon]. Well, that or you have found a 3 rig slot ishtar that no one else has.
Originally by: Minigin
best part is you think the abbadons ammo costs more than drones... you buy the abbadons ammo once... and never again replace it till you die... i have to ******* pay 10m on drones ever time i want to go out pvping. You are a HUGE noob who doesnt know what he is talking about.
No really they do. Oh no, 10m in drones every time you go out, its about 30m for ammo on average, and if the argument is that the abaddon replaces it when it dies, then the question is how often does the Abaddon die and how often does the ishtar die?
Quote:
look at that... 1/3 the cost. - best part is... you can perma tank most ishtar damage in an abbadon. so you want ballance? nerf the abbadons tank a little... or make drones un-shootable.
I would love to see an abaddon that can perma tank anything. The guns alone use more cap than a t2 lar.
Originally by: techzer0
If you're paying full price for Abaddons, maybe you should look at your corp/alliance and ask why you're flying for them. I buy the majority of T1 ships I fly at cost and I'm definitely not in a large corp or even an alliance.
That is at cost. Full empire price is higher.
a non-polyed non-implanted ishtar gets under 3.2km/s do you know what that means? it can get hit pretty hard by most guns. you are barely outrunning most missles... now try and aligning out... without the polys your 4s warp time is now at 7. uh oh...
Stop claiming stupid things about a ship you have never had to fit or fly in your life.
I can fly nearly every single ship in this game... and i have! i ******* know what the fitting prices are and what has a higher chance of dieing and all that jazz.
if your not an idiot in your abbadon and cycle stuff rather than run your own cap dry... you should never die to an ishtar... but instead most morons like yourself fire all the guns and hope they kill their enemy before their cap runs out... rather than conserve tank and get help from friends.
You are clearly not a pvper... do not comment on things that do not concern you. Lets face it... when was the last time you actually sat down and asked yourself "hmmm how can i counter a nano gang"... you havnt... and its not ccps job to help you avoid having to do that. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Labienus
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Labienus ECCM fitted logistics ships/projected eccm. Plus remote reps on BS etc(helpful?) Interceptor, faster than a Hac..My crow goes 6kms and 9km/s with overheat, unrigged and t2 fitted. Fly at nano ship. Activate Point, Activate Web(with logsitics remote reps helping you) nano ship slows down...gets hit by guns...dies..Rinse, Repeat.
Will make your interceptors last longer, if you are smart and many logisitics have good remote rep range.
Nano ship burns away from your mwd as it approaches. Activates guns and sets drones on you. Crow pops in 3-5 seconds. Nano ship leaves.
You get within web range, by now you are long out of battleship range, sets drones on crow, burns away, and if fitting neuts, neuts crow. Crow disengages, nano ship dictates range, crow pops, nano ship leaves.
Logistics won't keep an inty alive, volley damage will run through its entire hit point spectrum before you can rep it.
remote reps are how often? See those griffins stay alive from remote reps in the tournement? Seen the remote rep range on logistics? know they can give capacitor as well? Could also try it with a rapier.
If all the nano ships are always burning away, its not a problem to you then.
if they are fighting, they are closer to the fight, the crow can catch them easily then. People do not react INSANTLY, theres a delay before they notice the crow chose them. Plus its hard to track while moving, and only small drones will catch it.
yah dude this guy has no idea what he is talking about... ignore him... he doesnt know the first thing about any form of pvp, just that numbers should win the day... . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:48:00 -
[17]
lets face it people... who are you going to believe... myself and tech... who between us can fly every ship in this game... or some random noob in goonswarm who has under 200kills to his name all in blob warfare sitting in his harbinger? . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Minigin on 26/03/2008 01:50:10
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin
a non-polyed non-implanted ishtar gets under 3.2km/s do you know what that means? it can get hit pretty hard by most guns. you are barely outrunning most missles... now try and aligning out... without the polys your 4s warp time is now at 7. uh oh...
What the hell are you fitting in the other 3 low slots?[Also, that one goes over 3.2km/s]
Quote:
You are clearly not a pvper... do not comment on things that do not concern you. Lets face it... when was the last time you actually sat down and asked yourself "hmmm how can i counter a nano gang"... you havnt... and its not ccps job to help you avoid having to do that.
Many times i have sat down and said "hmm, what are these magical non-nano gangs that can kill nanos" and come up blank, and then people come and tell me what these magical fittings are to kill nanos and they come up false, they don't actually kill the nanos, they drive them off...
so then why do nano ships die?
btw: quote this if you think Goumindong is an idiot. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 01:57:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Minigin on 26/03/2008 01:57:41
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin
so then why do nano ships die?
Asked and answered: Because a lot of people fly nano ships and nano ships are the counter to nano ships.
you are a fool... i have killed and seen many more nanohacs killed by tanked ships.
the difference between us and you? we think about our setups... you just use the same setup for ratting and pvp... thats not our fault. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Quote: 2. You are getting ripped off for polycarbs and implants[which you don't need and are just as expensive as those for an abaddon]. Well, that or you have found a 3 rig slot ishtar that no one else has.
Uhh no? Have you checked the price of a polycarb recently? Just because you live in angel land where polycarbs are easy to come by doesn't mean the rest of us do. This is with jita prices.
Implants can run you well over 120m if you use 5% hardwirings. Even with 3% it should run you about 120m(3 3% ones, plus the hyperlink).
And seriously, lie more. 80m for 3 trimarks? I got 500 here I can sell you for 20m a piece, according to you that would be a great deal right? One second while I buy them from jita for 13 each.
180m for abaddon? They're ******* 140m in jita, after insurance you lose only like 10m on the hull.
Please, lie about more random crap so we can laugh at you.
yah having just read this... and rechecked jita prices myself... i was very generous saying the abbadon would set you back a total of 150m earlier. it wont even hit 100m for a good setup. Also just efted it... there are some really good setups that should never realisticaly die to a solo ishtar.
this leaves only one explanation to why these people think nanos are overpowered... they are stupid and dont know how to fly their own ships. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Labienus ill Reply again...why not...
Ceptors do not fly straight at them, Orbit, get some transversal, and with the logistics backing you it will be ALOT easier.
I know real pvp is not tournment, i used it as an example. The frigates were ABLE to tank the incoming fire with logistics, this is TRUE in real pvp too, face it, larger reps, staggered on the ceptor from a logistic ship with a RANGE bonus can keep a ceptor alive much longer, i doubt a nano hac would manage to instant volley a ceptor that is moving, their damage is not that great.
a competent nano ship will not let an inty orbit it. you will have to fly at it in order to web it, if you dont, he will lower transversal to the point where his guns can easily hit you and you will die.
stop talking now... you have never flown a nanohac... you dont know how to fly them. stop telling hte rest of us how to fly ours since you are so obviously pvp inept. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 02:38:00 -
[22]
ccp should let goons decide on all the major changes that happen in eve... look at how well put and founded in logic/fact this guys arguments are... . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.26 10:47:00 -
[23]
lol look i think we won. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:53:00 -
[24]
to your left side, you have 7 "non-nano ships" and one nano-ishtar. On the other, you have 4 nanoships and 8 other ships with mixed ewar and tank.
Given your logic, the larger numbers with nano ships would totaly wtf pwn the other gang?
http://ganja.3rd-echelon.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2599
yah i dunno. looks like you can kill nano ships... . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Semkhet ...
Go troll somewhere else. Some people actually want the game to get better. I am sorry you aren't one of them.
goumin dont even pretend you want this game to get better, you want it to get easier FOR YOU! . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Quote: Falcons are nano-ships. You keep saying they arent, but they haven't stopped being very agile, range independent, ships can can warp while cloaked, and can nearly always choose engagement terms.
Now, they are not nearly the problem that the other cruisers are, since their effect on the battlefield would be comparatively low when not coupled by very fast, high range, high agility cruisers.
Just like you idiotically said that all caldari ships aren't nano ships[Cerbs are pretty damn excellent at the job]
What kind of ****** logic is this? So anything smaller than a battlecruiser is a nanoship? Regardless of if they fit any sort of speed increasing rigs/lowslot modules or not?
So basically you want BC/BS to kill everything smaller than them with no tackling support or ewar support(bar scorps), got it.
yah dude thats exactly what he wants... look at his battleclinic stats... the ONLY ships he flys ONLY!!!!! are the harbinger and the geddon. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Semkhet
Originally by: Minigin
yah dude thats exactly what he wants... look at his battleclinic stats... the ONLY ships he flys ONLY!!!!! are the harbinger and the geddon.
Interesting, we all know that all brilliant nanopilots mostly fly harbingers and geddons. Make sense
and thats is what i have been saying for the last few pages... this guy should not be taken seriously by anyone... he simply does not have the background to know what he is talking about.
of course if you ask someone who only flys harbingers and geddons in 0.0 blobs about nanos he will tell you to nerf them...
whereas if you ask ANYONE who flys a good mix of the ships... they will tell you nanoships are very vulnerable ships. They suffer flaws that tanked ships do not. Thus there is ballance.
What goum wants is for this game to revolve around ship size and numbers. And i frankly dont think that is pvp... its more like maths. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Gamesguy
What kind of ****** logic is this? So anything smaller than a battlecruiser is a nanoship? Regardless of if they fit any sort of speed increasing rigs/lowslot modules or not?
So basically you want BC/BS to kill everything smaller than them with no tackling support or ewar support(bar scorps), got it.
On the falcon, its the cov-ops cloak combined with the range independence.
And no, you are mis-representing the argument again. The issue is not that heavier ships should kill everything, but that heavier ships need to have the ability to catch the faster ships.
Not always, but it needs to be there.
HEAVIER SHIPS DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DRIVE OFF AND CATCH LIGHTER SHIPS!!!!!! I MUST HAVE SEEN 100 PEOPLE TELL YOU THIS AND SHOW YOU HOW TO DO THIS IN THIS THREAD!!!!
Take a look at this...
http://ganja.3rd-echelon.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3091
according to you... that didnt happen.
Pretty simple formula... hit mwd towards ceptor... hit heavy neut... get inside 13km overheated web range = yay
if you are too stupid... or too incompetent to do that... well then you should have no further say in the nerfing nano matter. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lord WarATron A falcon setup for nanos style pvp, is nanoship. A falcon seup conventionaly is not.
im sorry so what is the difference between a conventional and nano setup on a falcon? . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Goumindong A falcon is pretty much always set for nano-style pvp. Its range independent, its got a cov-ops cloak and its got an MWD.
Since the cov-ops cloak and range independence are what matters in this case[as it does not need to decloak until its ready to engage, thus making the time it takes to move the distances largely irrelevant. While the MWD means it can break camps easily enough.
so my tankphoon with a cloak and an mwd is also a nanophoon in disguise? likewise my arazu?
this is ridiculous... but assuming you are right... this would push up my earlier example of 4 nanoships vs 1 to 6 nanoships vs 1 which if you accept an arazu as a nanoship you condemn your own argument because 6 nanoships in a 12 man gang could not take on 8 tanked ships with no quick tackle support... thus proving either that this game has little to do with what ship you fly and more to do with skill, or that nanos are defiantly not god mode as you claim.
So here you are... you have argued yourself into a corner. What will i hear next... . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin according to you... that didnt happen.
there's no accounting for idiocy.
so why is it that when a tanked pilot is an idiot... and gets killed, nanos are overpowered... but when a ceptor pilot is killed by a bs... hes the idiot? . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Minigin
so why is it that when a tanked pilot is an idiot... and gets killed, nanos are overpowered... but when a ceptor pilot is killed by a bs... hes the idiot?
When a tanked pilot is an idiot and gets killed he is still an idiot.
The issue is when the tanked pilot is not an idiot, he will still get killed.
Originally by: Minigin ]so my tankphoon with a cloak and an mwd is also a nanophoon in disguise? likewise my arazu? ]
Your tank-a-phoon has 100km+ range and a cov-ops cloak?
you are totaly ignoring the idea that the nano pilot might be a lot smarter better skilled and more experianced. Just as the tanked pilot may be the same.
THAT is why ships die... because either one pilot is stupid... or the other is smarter than him. There is no NANO SHIPS ARE AAAAAAAAALLLLLLWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYSSSSSS WIN!
there is pvp. and there is you... sitting in your harbinger... complaining that you are dieing again. Maybe you just arnt very good? . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.30 11:33:00 -
[33]
what i see here is a bunch of people with vested interest in slow blobed up pvp, crying that more talented pilots are avoiding blobs/lag/death buy using a LEGITIMATE and INTENDED tool in the game. Being velocity and transversal.
If you have a problem with this you should seriously look at what a rifter can do buy getting inside 500m of any t1 cruiser and orbit.
This is a perfectly balanced and legitimate tool. It is quite expensive to achieve the speeds that get you the appropriate transverse velocity and the risks are NOT minimum. You are always one smart bait ship away from losing 400m.
WHAT IS NOT INTENDED, is having a 200man fleet lag a system to the point where this game is unplayable for anyone who enjoys pvp. And lets face it... that is where this game is headed with all the stupid jump bridge additions and ewar nerfs. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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