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Tassill
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:09:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Terazuk Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:07:00
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Your stuff, give it to me now.
No, but ill take yours
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Tassill
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:11:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Nano cruisers (hac's and recons) and up have removed the need for smaller frigates (intys eaf)
Nano cruisers have removed a large part of tactics in pvp (no need to control the starting range of a fight if u can cover any range in seconds)
lastly nano cruisers have made the game booring and predictable
this is a pile of horse sh1t. if anything they have increased tactics as you can move more freely in combat, different levels of the fight are happening all around you. there is more stuff you need to be aware of. Inty's and frigs need SUPPORT! They are still the kings of speed but need log, ewar to sustain themselves, that adds discipline and difficulty to a complex game and YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO FLY YOUR SHIP FIRST THEN GET A GOOD FC
this is a pile of horse sh1t, you need to try and restrain yourself and come up with some deacent arguments rather than making it personal and hoping to prevoke me.
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:13:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Tassill
Originally by: Terazuk Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:07:00
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Your stuff, give it to me now.
No, but ill take yours
Come and get it! :p
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Tassill
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:15:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Terazuk
Originally by: Tassill
Originally by: Terazuk Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:07:00
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Your stuff, give it to me now.
No, but ill take yours
Come and get it! :p
Ty, contract to Tassill at your conveniance
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Terazuk
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:22:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Tassill
Ty, contract to Tassill at your convenience
Fixed. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Tassill
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:24:00 -
[216]
/Signed for the op
Nano cruisers (hac's and recons) and up have removed the need for smaller frigates (intys eaf)
Nano cruisers have removed a large part of tactics in pvp (no need to control the starting range of a fight if u can cover any range in seconds)
lastly nano cruisers have made the game booring and predictable Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Terazuk
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:26:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Nano cruisers (hac's and recons) and up have removed the need for smaller frigates (intys eaf)
Nano cruisers have removed a large part of tactics in pvp (no need to control the starting range of a fight if u can cover any range in seconds)
lastly nano cruisers have made the game booring and predictable
Didn't you say that already? |
Lady Karma
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:27:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Lady Karma on 22/03/2008 02:27:23
Originally by: Tassill
Nano cruisers have increased a large part of tactics in pvp (can't go afk and press F1-F8 if they going to fly ships well )
lastly nano cruisers have made the game booring and predictable
Fixed it for you.
Nano cruisers boring?!! Is that because you can't kill them in your useless missile boats
OMG you are in hydra, why don't you hug a station, lose a shed load of ships and try claim victory.
I am coming in hot
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Tassill
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:32:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Tassill on 22/03/2008 02:33:11
Originally by: Lady Karma Edited by: Lady Karma on 22/03/2008 02:27:23
Originally by: Tassill
Nano cruisers have increased a large part of tactics in pvp (can't go afk and press F1-F8 if they going to fly ships well )
lastly nano cruisers have made the game booring and predictable
Fixed it for you.
Nano cruisers boring?!! Is that because you can't kill them in your useless missile boats
OMG you are in hydra, why don't you hug a station, lose a shed load of ships and try claim victory.
I am coming in hot
A: What does this have to do with nano ships?
B: dont edit people's post's and pretend they have said something they havent
C: your a noob so post with your main or stfu Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Lady Karma
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:41:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Tassill
A: What does this have to do with nano ships?
B: dont edit people's post's and pretend they have said something they havent
C: your a noob so post with your main or stfu
A: Have a look a vid. Random blob is crap against decent nano gang
B: Boo hoo, you want to press F1- f8 and think you have skills
C: I will post with this alt just to expose how bad idiots like you are Good job on your FC calling ceptors as primary for the BS
Grey council, god knows how you managed to get in CI. Delete your sig please, you are embarrassment
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:44:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:45:35
Originally by: Tassill
A: What does this have to do with nano ships?
Seemingly you can't kill them with your useless missile boats.
Originally by: Tassill
B: dont edit people's post's and pretend they have said something they havent
But it was funny and relevant.
Originally by: Tassill
C: your a noob so post with your main or stfu
My old favourite... you disagree with me so you're a noob.
Remind me to use that one more often, heady days!
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Tassill
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:52:00 -
[222]
Haha you guys are so lame, try and keep on topic for at least one post
once again
/Signed for the op
nano ships need to be balanced
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.03.22 02:55:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:56:10
Originally by: Tassill Haha you guys are so lame, try and keep on topic for at least one post
finally
/ Not signed for the op
nano ships are fine
I like my version better. :p
I'm sure it's what you really meant after all.
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Bresan Borija
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.22 03:02:00 -
[224]
Enough with the whine.
What happened to prompt yet another nerf this and that thread? Were you ratting in null sec and a vaga killed you? Are you really going to blame anyone but yourself?
Majority of the nano pilots do not invest heavy into the ship/rigs and the implants to go as fast as you state. Those are rare and very expensive to gather. Many will not even have the range you stated to orbit above heavy neut range (as stated before their mwd do not run on hippy love).
Instead of whining for a nerf to an extreme case, why don't you try to deal with it as best as possible?
guilty look
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Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.22 08:03:00 -
[225]
Originally by: John Blackthorn I have 513 kills using my Hugin and 43 losses. I do believe I've earned the right to give suggestions in this topic.
My wallet is jut fine still have several billion isk from my t2 bpo's and invention sales.
do me a favor, in your next post...stroke the epeen a little harder. It's so sexy ____________________________________________
Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
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Minigin
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Posted - 2008.03.22 11:41:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Minigin Without even reading this thread... let me wade in here and yell at you all.
This is the single most ******** situation I have ever seen in EVE. Just before the first revelation patch people where starting to catch onto the whole istab/nano craze and admittedly it was very broken. Because using basic t1 ****ty equipment with no implants or drugs would get you to speeds where you could outrun any dps possibly dished out.
So what did ccp do? THEY FIXED IT! It now costs 100s of millions more to get the ships to half the speed they used to get. What does this mean? I think its pretty simple really... If you are willing to pay more for a ship + implants and put in the hard yards to skill for a t2 ship with t2 modules... you deserve an edge.
We have seen that nano gangs are far from invincible... Everyone loses nanoships frankly because their strength is their weakness in that it usually doesn't require much of a tank. If anyone is smart enough to neut or web them... oh mama they are in trouble.
But instead of actually fighting the ships in game... you fools come here on the forums and want ccp to fight them off for you? Get real...
What happens if CCP does nerf them... then the same people come back in remote repping ravens and make fools of you? Complain about that also? Then what are we left with... everyone sitting in a drake?
If you ******* pay for 3bill highgrade snakes... you deserve to have a BIG edge.
If you want to continue flying ****ty t1 cruisers and cry about the big bad nano menace... train something and start saving isk.
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 11:15:22
Quote: The issue for mine is that some layouts result in stupid things. Try catching an 18km/s claymore for example. That's right 18km/s. Now that is insane and requires adjustment.
just to give an example of what i was talking about earlier...
Claymore - 150m polycarbs - 120m core x-type 100mn microwarpdrive - 150m(i think) faction cap recharger fit - 100m hg snakes - 3b
the look on that t1 cruisers face? priceless.
you want risk vs reward? how would you like to pay 3.5b to have a shot at that ship?
. MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =) Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Myth Al'kar
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Posted - 2008.03.22 12:07:00 -
[227]
Bleh, I think I actually agree with Minigin for once.
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Silencio Nohay'Banda
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 13:21:00 -
[228]
Nanos are not a problem as they have counters just like everything else... they're paper thin once you manage to put a web on...
Rapiers, Huggins, Curses, Webbing Drones, BS sized Neuts, ceptors all can stop nano ships.
And might I add that too many people give their own theory about "how eve should be"...
IMO nanoships are fun to fly and fly against gives an extra spice to the game. If everything was exactly the same it would be boring...
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.22 14:39:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Silencio Nohay'Banda Nanos are not a problem as they have counters just like everything else... they're paper thin once you manage to put a web on...
Rapiers, Huggins, Curses, Webbing Drones, BS sized Neuts, ceptors all can stop nano ships.
And might I add that too many people give their own theory about "how eve should be"...
IMO nanoships are fun to fly and fly against gives an extra spice to the game. If everything was exactly the same it would be boring...
thank you. you are one of the few people these days who has a brain.
The problem is... no one can accept blame for their own mistakes. People who lose ships look for any excuse for it not to be their fault, "oh i lagged out..." "oh my gang didnt support me" "oh nanos are just unfair..."
my personal favourite "the other side was spawning shuttles everywhere..."
I encourage people to think about what went wrong... and how they can change the outcome next time... rather than just cry foul because they couldn't fly out their insured mega and take on 4 nanohacs. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.22 17:48:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Terazuk Edited by: Terazuk on 22/03/2008 02:07:00
Originally by: Tassill /Signed for the op
Your stuff, give it to me now.
You wonldn't want any of it.. no nano's.
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Lo3d3R
MAFIA
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Posted - 2008.03.22 18:07:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 22/03/2008 18:16:10
Originally by: Terazuk
bla bla bla beeing scared and also knowing that NANO ships will be nerfed. --------------- Admit it.. you just suck badly at Eve.
___________________
Sexy Time: |
Ravenal
The Fated Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 18:43:00 -
[232]
expand your way of dealing with this problem. The problem is as has been numerously pointed out BLOBS. A good way to survive blobs is to be pretty darn fast.
Instead of being ridiculous and trying to nerf nano or blobs simply make the class game mechanics the way they are supposed to be. What I mean is that a battleship shouldnt be able to under any circumstances bar 0 m/s be able to hit a frigate.
See, problem solved... now you don't need millions of meters per second to avoid that battleship blob if you are in a frigate. The only thing you have to worry about are the other frigate sized ships (weapons) that blob has to bring down on you.
So: - frigate sized target recieves damage from frigate sized modules - next to none from larger weaponry (like the missile nerf but for guns). - frigate sized weapons still do damage to larger sized ships, but larger ships DO have counters like small drones, smartbombs and neutralizers. However unless the larger ships can reduce the frigate speed down to 0m/s its larger weaponry or drones will do next to no damage.
this applies to all classes really, so large weapons will have problems against battlecruisers, more so against cruisers. Medium weapons will have problems against destroyers and will find frigates difficult to kill.
Now blobs need to diversify alot more to be able to effectively attack any ship they see OR they will be frigate gangs which could be countered by a battleship gang deploying lots of small drones. When the blobs diversify they can be attacked by specialized groups that the blob has few weapons against. For example a battleship blob with lots of small drones to counter frigates attacked by lots of cruisers. . |
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.03.22 18:43:00 -
[233]
Theres a problem??
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 19:10:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Tassill blah blah... hoping to prevoke me.
provoke you? i wish i could get people like you out of their stations. We all have poasted a ton of valid points on why speed is ok, how to combat speed, and give tips to the new guys. What you can't seem to realize and the rest of the mongos in here is that this a team sport, this is a team game, and if you all dont work together you all are going to die. You cant learn via EFT< you cant learn on SiSi. You need to spend your isk and get out there in the real world and pew pew, win or lose and learn from that
the increased whining has provoked me and people like me who actually PVP and brought us here to shut morons up who can't be arsed to learn how to play the game, they just want it changed to suit them...
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.22 20:34:00 -
[235]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
I think this video is close to the nanoproblem, some stupid carebear gets tackled/killed, his friends blob the nanoes and then the carebears whine that hostiles run.
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Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 21:12:00 -
[236]
I only read the OP and the last page, but i think what you will see here is younger players who are inexperienced and naive thinking that a small gang of nano's is invincible and impossible to kill. As minigin stated nano ships are expensive and weak. THAT is their downside, not only that but they are incredibly difficult to fly in comparison to BS's or normal slow cruisers/bc's. You have to watch transversal, range, speed and focus fire on the primary while trying to stay alive.
If you nerf nano's you may aswell remove HACS from the game, look at the ishtar for an example, it costs 90 mil to buy off market, with a nano fitting and polycarbs you are looking at 250 mil. It gets a drone bonus to damage, you could infact call it a smaller dominix, so take speed from this ship and what do you get a slow mini dominix thats more expensive and cant tank as much nor fit heavy neutrilizers or as many spare drones as a dominix which costs 60 mil + 50ish mil for a decent fitting. The same can be said for most HAC's if you take away speed you may aswell fly a battleship because its not only cheaper but its harder hitting and stronger.
Speed is the ONLY way to fight a blob without blobbing (to a certain extent) you take it away you will increase lag, increase volume of blobs and you will get more veterans leaving the game.
Nano ships die every day, probably more so in TRI than any other alliance, people can and do counter them, stop thinking this game is undock and hit f1-f8 Speed adds a whole new dimension to PvP and if you remove the ability to nano you are FORCING blob warfare and 2D combat upon all of Eve.
Dark
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:08:00 -
[237]
I think we can all agree they are not impossible to kill, but it is disproportionately difficult to elicit a definitive outcome from an engagement with nano-ships.
Laymans terms, a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
They aren't all that difficult to fly, no more so than say... a frigate where "you have to watch transversal, range, speed and focus fire on the primary while trying to stay alive". They can be difficult to fly if you have lag or a high ping but this simply creates a game of the haves and have nots where it comes to quality ISPs. They also provide a level of twitch game-play beyond the frigate class and many will tell you they love EVE because it is not a "twitch" game but one of tactics and strategy.
Cost is not a justification, if it is then we may as well add some nice expensive 95% resist hardeners to the market. Blobs are not a justification, blobs are a separate problem that needs to be dealt with separately.
The only justification for nano's is variety and here I wholeheartedly agree. Speed tanking should be a valid tactic. However it should be balanced comparative to a "standard" tank while taking the benefit of added mobility into account. The webber makes this pretty much impossible and it needs to be addressed (for so many reasons). Once it is then we could actually have speed tanks that do their job at reasonable cost without being overpowered and the Minmatars racial "bonus" in this area would have meaning beyond the Vaga and Stabber.
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Angelic Orange
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:18:00 -
[238]
How are you going to close in on snipers if you remove the fast ships? How are you going to get scrams on a group that warps from BM to BM on the grid if you remove fast ships? Fast ships are great. People that hate nanos are people that don't know how to web and neut properly.
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.22 22:34:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 22:39:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
but the same can be said about any ship class... if you are in a battleship and have a wingman of a falcon and a scout... there is no real encounter that you should not be able to avoid or disengage.
So whats next? we nerf tanks so that if you engage on one side of the gate you die on that side?
Or maybe we should just start letting people win fights by typing the number of people in their gang in a square box by the side of their screen. Whoever has more ships is instantly guaranteed victory and the other team has its ships blown up by a dev.
I like where this is going.
EVERYTHING IN ******* EVE IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE GEARED TO BLOB WARFARE! THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS! AND ILL BE ******* DAMNED IF IM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND SHOUT ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS GET IN GAME AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT YOUR OWN INCOMPETANCE RATHER THAN BLAME IT ON SOMETHING THAT IS SO OBVIOUSLY WELL BALANCED AND ALLOWS HIGHER SKILLED, RICHER PILOTS(and perhaps most importantly and correctly like darkness said - people who actually know how to fly these ships) TO FIGHT BLOBS!
The correlation between how much you spend on your ship, how many skills you have, and how well you know how to fly it(in particular this one i think) is not limited to nanohacs. The question is now not whether nanos should be nerfed... but if any successful pvp strategy should be?
OMGOMGOMGOGMGOMGOGMOGMGOM U HAS MONEY & SKILLZZZ???? YOU MUST BE HAXSPLOITING!!!I1!!111111!oneeleventyone1
. MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Klasper
x13
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Posted - 2008.03.22 23:29:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Klasper on 22/03/2008 23:30:54 Havn't read all posts, but here's my idea:
Add lighter webifier drones... Something like:
Valkyrie SW-600 (medium): 2500m/s standard, 15%-20% web (55%-67% web with 5 drones) Warrior SW-300 (light): 3500m/s standard, 10% web (41% web with 5 drones)
Just an idea (don't know if calculations are entirely correct either)
Or to add to the idea of changing webifiers, add a longer range web that targets mwd-boost instead of the regular speed... |
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