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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:06:00 -
[241]
there is no nano problem
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:09:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Darknesss I only read the OP and the last page, but i think what you will see here is younger players who are inexperienced and naive thinking that a small gang of nano's is invincible and impossible to kill. As minigin stated nano ships are expensive and weak. THAT is their downside, not only that but they are incredibly difficult to fly in comparison to BS's or normal slow cruisers/bc's. You have to watch transversal, range, speed and focus fire on the primary while trying to stay alive.
If you nerf nano's you may aswell remove HACS from the game, look at the ishtar for an example, it costs 90 mil to buy off market, with a nano fitting and polycarbs you are looking at 250 mil. It gets a drone bonus to damage, you could infact call it a smaller dominix, so take speed from this ship and what do you get a slow mini dominix thats more expensive and cant tank as much nor fit heavy neutrilizers or as many spare drones as a dominix which costs 60 mil + 50ish mil for a decent fitting. The same can be said for most HAC's if you take away speed you may aswell fly a battleship because its not only cheaper but its harder hitting and stronger.
Speed is the ONLY way to fight a blob without blobbing (to a certain extent) you take it away you will increase lag, increase volume of blobs and you will get more veterans leaving the game.
Nano ships die every day, probably more so in TRI than any other alliance, people can and do counter them, stop thinking this game is undock and hit f1-f8 Speed adds a whole new dimension to PvP and if you remove the ability to nano you are FORCING blob warfare and 2D combat upon all of Eve.
Dark
I don't like Tri I despise Dark
but... *shudders*.. QFT ...
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:22:00 -
[243]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
I think this video is close to the nanoproblem, some stupid carebear gets tackled/killed, his friends blob the nanoes and then the carebears whine that hostiles run.
QFT, thats about how things work in Tranquility... right on target...
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Aria Selenis
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:27:00 -
[244]
Why are we worrying about nanos? Shields and armor are the real problem.
There is no way to counter a ships shield and armor from absorbing damage meant for their structure! For example, I was in this gang of frigates, and we encountered a group of three BS. As we shot them, they repaired each other... no matter how long we shot them, we could never damage their structure because they kept repairing the armor.
But tanking, like nanos, is just another tactic. These "tactics" are giving unfair advantages to other ships. For example, destroyers have an unfair advantage over frigates, and minmatar recons have an unfair advantage at stopping speed tanked ships.
"Tactics" are ruining EVE. It forces players to think of a superior way to counter a force, as opposed to the way it should be.. whoever has more SP wins!
So why should we have to think of an intelligent way to outfight our foes? CCP should do that for us, by removing any method of strategically cheating and giving oneself an advantage.
I propose an "SP Damage" system. Your SP, modified by your ship and modules (A t2 module might be 1.2 bonus, t1 1.1.. t2 ships x2, battleships x2, frigates x.5, etc.). This will become your "win points". If you have more "win points" than the enemy, they die and you live.
For fleets, the total "win points" of the fleet are added up and then damage is dealt. For example: ten 5 million win point ships vs five 12 million win point ships. The first group deals 50 million damage, the second deals 60 million. All of the first group dies as it has less win points. The second group takes 50 million win points in damage.. 50 million / 12 allows 4 ships to die, while the fifth takes 2 million SP in damage, but it doesn't matter as the ship is repaired.
This will make the game more fair, like WoW, so that whoever has the nicer character and gear can win.. and all those tactics which give an unfair advantage to the side that outsmarts their enemy are removed.
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Corstaad
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:44:00 -
[245]
I bet this thread is 9 pages of whines cut and pasted from the other 9 page nerf threads.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:57:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Minigin Limegreen Stuff
The same cannot be said about any ship class or even other ships of the same class, smart pilot jumps into an average camp in any other (non-cloaking) ship and he's toast. He engages and gets tackled... odds are he's toast. Backup arrives... toast, basically if he makes a bad choice or gets unlucky he's pretty much going to die. Your example set-up doesn't stand up to the reality that the falcon cannot get 100% jams on an unlimited number of targets and that a battleship is going to have real issues outrunning a superior force of faster ships. If it's so great nobody would be here defending nano's they'd be out there busting camps and blobs in your three man gang of doom.
An equally skilled player, in just as pimped a ship, with just as much player skill, will never have the survivability a nano-ship has. This makes their cost far less significant over time, it also lessens the value of player skill and tactics when most of your opponents can bug out if they mess up, start losing, or fall into a trap.
It comes down to this:
The tank and spank ship's ass is on the line. It is committed to combat, do or die. The nano-ship is not, it has what is roughly equivalent to multiple WCS without penalty and can avoid the vast majority of incoming damage.
So either the nano-setups should be slower, web strength should nerfed and web range increased leading to speed tanking that still significantly reduces damage but is not a "get out of **** free" card, or the penalties should come back off of WCS and some 85% resist hardeners be added to the pirate faction LP stores so that we can all combat the mighty blob. I know the latter is a strawman argument but it's darn close to the situation we currently have. In fact a stabbed up ship was a whole lot easier to catch than a nano-ship is.
So it has nothing to do with player skill, skillpoints, or even wealth. For example a nano-pilot using missiles or drones will always either win or draw vs a non-nano-HAC pilot provided he can copy a ship fitting and tactic from the forums and work the function keys, orbit button, and warp.
I can see why people defend nano-setups, they make the game more fun for many and help to avoid some of the nastier issues of PvP. That and it's nice not to lose so many ships. But the above points still stand, it's just not good for game balance and it needs to be looked at. Speed tanking should be a viable balanced option, but as soon as it is made so I imagine a whole lot of people will stop using it and begin the hunt for the next flavor of the month.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 00:59:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Corstaad I bet this thread is 9 pages of whines cut and pasted from the other 9 page nerf threads.
So true for both sides. But it's like a familiar dance, you hear the tune and find yourself taking the same old steps.
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IISANALT
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.23 01:59:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark We are currently working on a solution to the nano problem
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Tassill
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:33:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 22:39:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
but the same can be said about any ship class... if you are in a battleship and have a wingman of a falcon and a scout... there is no real encounter that you should not be able to avoid or disengage.
So whats next? we nerf tanks so that if you engage on one side of the gate you die on that side?
Or maybe we should just start letting people win fights by typing the number of people in their gang in a square box by the side of their screen. Whoever has more ships is instantly guaranteed victory and the other team has its ships blown up by a dev.
I like where this is going.
EVERYTHING IN ******* EVE IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE GEARED TO BLOB WARFARE! THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS! AND ILL BE ******* DAMNED IF IM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND SHOUT ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS GET IN GAME AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT YOUR OWN INCOMPETANCE RATHER THAN BLAME IT ON SOMETHING THAT IS SO OBVIOUSLY WELL BALANCED AND ALLOWS HIGHER SKILLED, RICHER PILOTS(and perhaps most importantly and correctly like darkness said - people who actually know how to fly these ships) TO FIGHT BLOBS!
The correlation between how much you spend on your ship, how many skills you have, and how well you know how to fly it(in particular this one i think) is not limited to nanohacs. The question is now not whether nanos should be nerfed... but if any successful pvp strategy should be?
OMGOMGOMGOGMGOMGOGMOGMGOM U HAS MONEY & SKILLZZZ???? YOU MUST BE HAXSPLOITING!!!I1!!111111!oneeleventyone1
Higher sp characters and richer pilots do have other options for fighting the blob!
Look at burn eden for example, they are very successfull at this using their tactic of very small mixed gang's using a few sniper bs with light tackler support.
However whilst other options are available to high sp toons the fact remains that most "higher sp" character just prefer the easy mode (which is nano gangs) as this meens they no longer require covert scouts to check gates for them and make warp in's... all the tactical stuff. Burn Eden's tactic is unfortunatly not quite as good at catching noob isk farmers in the belts but tbh all you need is a rifter to kill one of them so lets not bring them into it.
I dont claim to be better than any one at pvp but I am competent and rich enough to fly nano ships. My hanger atm is filled with a ton of nano ships because they are the best thing around to fly atm and i will keep flying them because they are effective.
However TBH I think it is starting to get booring and I know a lot of other people do to (it was one of the reasons Cruel Intentions disbanded) and I am rich enough and high enough in sp's to know that when the nano nerf comes I will be in a good position for the next effective thing.
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L70Rogue
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.23 07:30:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Tassill
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 22:39:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
but the same can be said about any ship class... if you are in a battleship and have a wingman of a falcon and a scout... there is no real encounter that you should not be able to avoid or disengage.
So whats next? we nerf tanks so that if you engage on one side of the gate you die on that side?
Or maybe we should just start letting people win fights by typing the number of people in their gang in a square box by the side of their screen. Whoever has more ships is instantly guaranteed victory and the other team has its ships blown up by a dev.
I like where this is going.
EVERYTHING IN ******* EVE IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE GEARED TO BLOB WARFARE! THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS! AND ILL BE ******* DAMNED IF IM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND SHOUT ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS GET IN GAME AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT YOUR OWN INCOMPETANCE RATHER THAN BLAME IT ON SOMETHING THAT IS SO OBVIOUSLY WELL BALANCED AND ALLOWS HIGHER SKILLED, RICHER PILOTS(and perhaps most importantly and correctly like darkness said - people who actually know how to fly these ships) TO FIGHT BLOBS!
The correlation between how much you spend on your ship, how many skills you have, and how well you know how to fly it(in particular this one i think) is not limited to nanohacs. The question is now not whether nanos should be nerfed... but if any successful pvp strategy should be?
OMGOMGOMGOGMGOMGOGMOGMGOM U HAS MONEY & SKILLZZZ???? YOU MUST BE HAXSPLOITING!!!I1!!111111!oneeleventyone1
Higher sp characters and richer pilots do have other options for fighting the blob!
Look at burn eden for example, they are very successfull at this using their tactic of very small mixed gang's using a few sniper bs with light tackler support.
However whilst other options are available to high sp toons the fact remains that most "higher sp" character just prefer the easy mode (which is nano gangs) as this meens they no longer require covert scouts to check gates for them and make warp in's... all the tactical stuff. Burn Eden's tactic is unfortunatly not quite as good at catching noob isk farmers in the belts but tbh all you need is a rifter to kill one of them so lets not bring them into it.
I dont claim to be better than any one at pvp but I am competent and rich enough to fly nano ships. My hanger atm is filled with a ton of nano ships because they are the best thing around to fly atm and i will keep flying them because they are effective.
However TBH I think it is starting to get booring and I know a lot of other people do to (it was one of the reasons Cruel Intentions disbanded) and I am rich enough and high enough in sp's to know that when the nano nerf comes I will be in a good position for the next effective thing.
QFT
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.23 07:54:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Tassill
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 22/03/2008 22:39:29
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
a smart pilot can almost always escape or not engage, a dumb one will still lose a lot less ships than they would normally.
**green stuff that makes sense**
Higher sp characters and richer pilots do have other options for fighting the blob!
Look at burn eden for example, they are very successfull at this using their tactic of very small mixed gang's using a few sniper bs with light tackler support.
However whilst other options are available to high sp toons the fact remains that most "higher sp" character just prefer the easy mode (which is nano gangs) as this meens they no longer require covert scouts to check gates for them and make warp in's... all the tactical stuff. Burn Eden's tactic is unfortunatly not quite as good at catching noob isk farmers in the belts but tbh all you need is a rifter to kill one of them so lets not bring them into it.
I dont claim to be better than any one at pvp but I am competent and rich enough to fly nano ships. My hanger atm is filled with a ton of nano ships because they are the best thing around to fly atm and i will keep flying them because they are effective.
However TBH I think it is starting to get booring and I know a lot of other people do to (it was one of the reasons Cruel Intentions disbanded) and I am rich enough and high enough in sp's to know that when the nano nerf comes I will be in a good position for the next effective thing.
Bolded the part that makes no sense: Please tell me why in the heck is not using an alt scout a bad thing? Alts are always whined about, and not having to use one is pretty freaking nice. I'm tired of alt scouts and anything that helps eliminate them (me escaping by being nano'd) is great. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:29:00 -
[252]
so basicaly what you are saying is there is no way to make a bad choice using a nano ship?
you can only ever **** up if you are in a tanked ship?
because i have a lot of kill and loss mails that prove otherwise. . MINIGIN! Now bringing colour back to these forums =)
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.03.23 10:58:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Tassill
Burn Eden's tactic is unfortunatly not quite as good at catching noob isk farmers in the belts but tbh all you need is a rifter to kill one of them so lets not bring them into it.
So a noob in a rifter is better than Burn Eden? You certainly know how to make friends
Originally by: Tassill
I dont claim to be better than any one at pvp but I am competent and rich enough to fly nano ships. My hanger atm is filled with a ton of nano ships because they are the best thing around to fly atm and i will keep flying them because they are effective.
However TBH I think it is starting to get boring and I know a lot of other people do to (it was one of the reasons Cruel Intentions disbanded)
Cruel intentions disbanded because they got bored of zooming around killing everything with impunity in invincible nano-ships?
Yuh huh... *nods*
Reading between the lines here, I can see you tried it and noobs in rifters/Burn Eden were handing your posterior to you. Finding it much too hard and losing too much ISK you now want to drag people back to approach/orbit, F1, f2, f3... etc.
Originally by: Tassill
and I am rich enough and high enough in sp's to know that when the nano nerf comes I will be in a good position for the next effective thing.
When??? I'm impressed! Can you give me next weeks lotto numbers too?
And when everybody else (Noobs in rifters and Burn Eden apparently) is doing the next big thing... as sure as the pope is catholic, back you will be, whining pitifully for another nerf to solve something you too lazy to solve yourself.
Round and round the story goes etc, ad-nauseum. Until we have Wow-in-space, nobody loses, everybody wins and you can only pvp if you pay to get on a different server.
Why can't you bring ship that can web at range? limited ships available for that? wing leaders with Skirmish warfare modules? don't have any? how about neut's? medium or heavy it doesn't matter... If your enemy goes faster than you, let him come to you, don't chase what you can't catch. Ask yourself, where is he? where does he need to be? where should I be to intercept. It really is quite simple.
Organization, discipline, situational awareness and coherent tactics will win the day.
Or you can just just blob
Just do anything but whine about things which are well within your power to work out for yourself. You really can't expect human players to play like NPCs, people play to win.
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Zasmar
Personal Vendetta Reavers.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:10:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Matrixcvd Eve has no speed problem, stop blowing hot air, you might pass out
I concur with the above statement.
To the OP, have you ever tried this thing called 'just playing the game' it's pretty damn awesome.
As people have mentioned most nano ships are weak both with tank and dps, to a point where if webbed they will go down very quickly. All it takes is a Minnie recon pilot, a faction web or any inty pilot who knows how to kite effectively - unfortunatly only about 10% of eve players still practice and use this technique.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:20:00 -
[255]
Fix tracking: If I can rotate my ship to precisly match your orbit, the relative angular velocity drops off to nothing...boom, problem solved. Skilled pilots would use variable orbits, unskilled nano-jocks would simply click *orbit*, then wonder why they find themselves in a pod vs a decent pilot... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Wang Chaupang
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:08:00 -
[256]
nano will be over soon \0/
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Mysa
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:24:00 -
[257]
we fly fast and our ships blows up just as fast, there is no problem. counter whit 3-4 huggins and you won they fight any day. its all about tactics and inteligence
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Silencio Nohay'Banda
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:49:00 -
[258]
If someone is ratting and gets tackled by a nano gang it will be no different then being caught by a BS gang...
People have to play the setup game (which is by the way one of the greatest features of eve). There's no one setup beat all. for instance, if you fight a capital ship would you not bring dedicated neut ships? If you're ratting would you not setup your ship for the purpose?
Ship setups is like a chess game, try to guess the most likely setup for the enemy ship\s once it gets scouted many jumps away... if it didn't get scouted/reported then tough luck...
Furthermore if HACs and recons couldn't be nano'd then what benefit would they have over BS? why should anyone fly them instead of BS.
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Siren Call
Dragon Highlords Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:55:00 -
[259]
Having not read the previous 9 pages here is my point of view.
Any person can train any skill in the game after a certain length of time. Any person can make any amount of isk after a certain amount of time. Also these time lengths are generally not that long, if you use your brain.
The only limitation is how you use the tools eve gives you, ie how you use your head. Its a personal choice if you fly nano ships or not, its a personal choice if you fly with a heavy neuter/specialised webbing ship or not.
Its a level playing field...so i dont get what the problem is
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 13:22:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Mysa we fly fast and our ships blows up just as fast, there is no problem. counter whit 3-4 huggins and you won they fight any day. its all about tactics and inteligence
Counter with 3-4 huggins and you won't get a fight all day.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.23 13:28:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Silencio Nohay'Banda If someone is ratting and gets tackled by a nano gang it will be no different then being caught by a BS gang...
People have to play the setup game (which is by the way one of the greatest features of eve). There's no one setup beat all. for instance, if you fight a capital ship would you not bring dedicated neut ships? If you're ratting would you not setup your ship for the purpose?
Ship setups is like a chess game, try to guess the most likely setup for the enemy ship\s once it gets scouted many jumps away... if it didn't get scouted/reported then tough luck...
Furthermore if HACs and recons couldn't be nano'd then what benefit would they have over BS? why should anyone fly them instead of BS.
Agreed. I would die constantly in HACs without insurance payouts if I couldn't nano it (ever seen an armor tanked vagabond )
I don't fly battleships because I die in them as i'm not specc'd to fly them, even at 23mil SP I don't have T2 large guns. I get my butt kicked by players with half my SP who have spec'd to fly BS's unlike me training to be a support pilot. Given the loss costs a lot less in a BS, but that's because it's normally not as easy to escape due to the low agility of the ship. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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astowv
Armoured Assassins Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.23 13:55:00 -
[262]
Edited by: astowv on 23/03/2008 13:59:20
Originally by: Matrixcvd Eve has no speed problem, stop blowing hot air, you might pass out
That came from someone in TRI
Edit: Leave the speedships alone,and add a anti-tackle system to non-speed ships. Speed ships can lock down a ship, AND have the ability to evade damage and get away if needed. It shouldnt :(
*cries* :P
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Mysa
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:33:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: Mysa we fly fast and our ships blows up just as fast, there is no problem. counter whit 3-4 huggins and you won they fight any day. its all about tactics and inteligence
Counter with 3-4 huggins and you won't get a fight all day.
bring a curse then or 2 and see what happens. all joy you fail |
Martin Mckenna
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:37:00 -
[264]
Originally by: mr mhc how many of you have actually flown a "nano" ship? vaga rapier huggin ishtar nano zealot nano deimos
??? These ships melt like butter. Cost a hell of alot of isk and they cant sustain an MWD forever like an Interceptor.
Yes the can...
You just need more SP
--------------------------------------------- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.23 15:01:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 23/03/2008 15:04:46
Originally by: Silencio Nohay'Banda There's no one setup beat all. for instance, if you fight a capital ship would you not bring dedicated neut ships? If you're ratting would you not setup your ship for the purpose?
Ship setups is like a chess game, try to guess the most likely setup for the enemy ship\s once it gets scouted many jumps away... if it didn't get scouted/reported then tough luck...
Furthermore if HACs and recons couldn't be nano'd then what benefit would they have over BS? why should anyone fly them instead of BS.
Sigh. Let me explain a few things to you. Firstly, as someone that has killed dozens of caps, I cannot think of a single instence where a dedicated neuter pilot would have made a difference. Most competent pilots fly in such a way that dedicated neutships would be better off in DPS ships. Because I said competent, I am automatically excluding the idiots who try to solo a 20 man recon gang of curses, huginns etc in a carrier. And there are no shortage of imcompetent people out there, but that is another thread in itself.
Next you talk about hac's. Hac's are just t2 cruisers. Even Tier2 BC's are better than most HAC's. The old glory HAC days only existed because t2 fitted Hacs were better than some t1 fitted omen or cacarel. With cheap invention, t2 fitted tier 2 battlecruisers outperform a lot of HAC's. The glory days of Hacs were more of relitivity than anything else, but again, thats another thread altogether.
The issue with the nanoships is that the counter to a *competent* nanogang is FAR more complex that flying a nanogang. Nobody doubts this. This is why there is a game imbalance.
This game imbalance will be fixed. Either via a nerf or by adding in a less complex counter. Follow this so far?
Imagine if warp scramblers had 10km range. Pvp would be possible but it would be rather dull and escaping people would be easy due to low scrambler range. Some guy on the forum would say "get a faction scram" or other random stuff. Now imagine if someone found a way to kill people from more than 10km. That would create a big imbalance since the target could warp off if loosing, yet the victim cannot do jack as the scrambler was designed for 10km pvp.
And thats the problem with webs. They were designed in the days when people actually used 7.5km scrambers. Nowadays a 7.5km scram is mostly useless. Asking people to fight nanogang with 10km webs is like asking them to fight with 10km scramblers is it not?
Anyhow my solution is simple. Introduce scripts. +100% range and -50% effectiveness. A t2 web becomes a 45% web, 20km range (26km with heat). This would slow down a 10km/s crow to 5500m/s which is fine as it can move out of web range in 4 seconds max.
So nanogangs can still do wolfpack tactics, but be less effective vs competent gangs who actually have a realistic counter to them. Solve Nano with a BOOST and not a nerf.
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Billion Isk Mission |
Hickock
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 15:04:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Hickock on 23/03/2008 15:04:26 Was this OP here about a year ago? Nanoships were everywhere. People going 12k in BSs were an everyday thing. CCP fixed it Dont nerf something thats already been nerfed.
/breaks sigh --------------
Visit http://extremepredators.com/ for more information. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 16:18:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Mysa bring a curse then or 2 and see what happens. all joy you fail
Do your nano-gangs not actually bother checking enemy ship types before engaging?
Even if they don't as I'm sure you know a nano-ship that strays into web or neut range will have MWD cycle-time, cap, or inertia enough to get out of range again and warp out.
Also: No U
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Mysa
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 18:21:00 -
[268]
Do your nano-gangs not actually bother checking enemy ship types before engaging?
Even if they don't as I'm sure you know a nano-ship that strays into web or neut range will have MWD cycle-time, cap, or inertia enough to get out of range again and warp out.
Also: No U
we have ofc couts checking our opponents out before any engagment. only time we actually do "run" from hostiles is when they bring more webbers then we got or have same numbers of curse's then we have in gang. and there is always a counter to every ship/module layout in pvp, we just happend to bring all of them in one gang and makes it work. Ive only flew nano-ship for a year now so i been escaping and killing alot of neuting webbing ship on my own and in gangs. and that "you fail" is a bad placed forum sign.. |
Semkhet
Spartan Industries Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 20:46:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Semkhet on 23/03/2008 20:47:14
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: Mysa bring a curse then or 2 and see what happens. all joy you fail
Do your nano-gangs not actually bother checking enemy ship types before engaging?
Even if they don't as I'm sure you know a nano-ship that strays into web or neut range will have MWD cycle-time, cap, or inertia enough to get out of range again and warp out.
Also: No U
Doesn't work that way: s**t happens when you least expect it. Each time I loose my pimp crow, it's because either the game or the net conditions can't cope with the amount of interaction involved from my side (read speed), what means that usually when I loose my ship, I loose my pod as well.
Hence we are talking about 1 bil for my pod and 500 mil for the ship/mods as sheer minimum. So you're welcome to loose in the mean time 100 non-nanoed ships which between the insurance and the fact you don't field faction mods will still represent less lost isk.
But I guess looking at the whole picture isn't your strong point. Anyhow, something recurrent is that as long you don't master nanowarfare, you won't know how to deal with nanoships, as simple as that.
What brings me to your over simplistic depiction of an engagement, where it seems that the classic encounter corresponds to a few non-nanoed ships surrounded by a horde of nanoships in the purest old western stereotype.
Well dude, get that: there are engagements where 20 nanoships go against 40 non nanoed ships spread over 50 Km including all ship classes, and you can't engage them without soon or later falling either in neut, web, scram or ecm range. The big difference is that good nanopilots shine in fast assessments and decision making processes, dynamically adapt to battle condititions, and use superior tactics, organization and focus.
At the end it's the conjunction of experience and knowhow which renders nanoship gangs so lethal, and not just the simple fact that they are nanoed.
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Crusty Clout
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.24 01:31:00 -
[270]
The whiners make some good points that they want fixed, heres what I got from it:
1. Tank and spank should be the only playstyle 2. My 100M BS should be able to beat your 200M smaller ship ( i mean cmon my ship BIGGER) 3. Play styles that are outside of the mold and work should be nerfed 4. If you don't play how i want to, i'll petition
probably more i missed, but this was just a quick reply by a tired man
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