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Bunj
GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:06:00 -
[1]
The current stats of the stasis webifier II are not in line with the other t2 propulsion jaming modules. The stasis webifer II needs a slight boost to range to make it so.
Atm
Warp disruptor I 20 km Warp disruptor II 24 km
Stasis Webifier I 10 km Stasis Webifier II 10 km
What we need is to have a 12 km range on the T2 Web.
This will make it balanced with the warp dis II and will also make slower tanked ships more viable in pvp (15.6 km overloaded).
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Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:09:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lorna Loot on 23/03/2008 02:09:43 OR the -15% extra in max velocity bonus is the stasis webifier II's tech 2 bonus. Just maybe.
Edit to shut people up:
Warp scram gets bonus to range, web gets bonus to targets max speed. Whats wrong with that? --------------------- Nox Eternus is Recruiting, contact me or Sgt Shazz ingame for info. |
Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:10:00 -
[3]
Also wrong fourm! --------------------- Nox Eternus is Recruiting, contact me or Sgt Shazz ingame for info. |
Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:11:00 -
[4]
CCP currently has a hardon for nano ships so good luck with getting that considered for a balance change. As it stands you need a Hyena/Huginn with faction web to counter nanos and I don't see this changing for quite a while. Good thing I have them both trained up on several characters. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. --------------------- |
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:17:00 -
[5]
Giving them more range would hurt small close range ships even more. It's bad enough they're 90% and can now be overloaded to 13k range.
You wanna make the nanofad worse? Overpower webs some more.
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Karanth
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kruel Giving them more range would hurt small close range ships even more. It's bad enough they're 90% and can now be overloaded to 13k range.
You wanna make the nanofad worse? Overpower webs some more.
How will buffing a counter make the nanoships more powerful?
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |
Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.23 02:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 23/03/2008 02:41:47 I wouldn't mind a 'more range, less effect' type of webber myself, but the main reason people choose to fight outside webrange currently is that the 90% webs are so damn powerful
20km web, 50% effect sounds much better to mee imo. ...
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lorna Loot Edited by: Lorna Loot on 23/03/2008 02:09:43 OR the -15% extra in max velocity bonus is the stasis webifier II's tech 2 bonus. Just maybe.
Edit to shut people up:
Warp scram gets bonus to range, web gets bonus to targets max speed. Whats wrong with that?
Doesnt the fleeting web have the same max speed bonus as t2?
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Galen Naranek
Royal Navy Industries CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:21:00 -
[9]
I think webs would be a perfect module for a script implementation. Maybe a base 75% speed reduction and 10 km range (T2) with scripts to either extend the range to 15km or the boost the speed reduction to 90%. Let the pilot choose! ___________________________________ That which kills me makes me deader |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.23 03:24:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/03/2008 03:24:37
Originally by: sakana
Doesnt the fleeting web have the same max speed bonus as t2?
Yes, it does. 90% is a total killer, which is why I always use T2 webs on my setups if possible.
Mind you, the reason why I immensely prefer being able to fit the T2 web is price; paying 5M for a fleeting vs 1.3M for a T2... well
And no, we do not need longer-ranged 90% webs. I'm not even sure we need 90% webs to begin with...
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Bo Bojangles
Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 04:04:00 -
[11]
Eve is my 2nd mmorpg with GuildWars being my first even though it's been said that GuildWars really isn't a mmorpg but i'm not going into all that.
What I will say though is that Eve's version of the 'snare', that is the ability to remove mobility from your opponent and/or control the range is infinitely more powerful than what I was used to formerly. In GW the snare came in the form of a hex or condition, which was the healer's responsibility to remove as soon as they were able, but we're only talking seconds.
In Eve, the only way to remove the snare, that is for all practical purposes, is to destroy the snarer, which can be somewhat of a problem if you're piloting say the common AC Hurricane and run into the common Arty Huginn.
There's a reason why the T2 web didn't receive a range bonus as the disrupter did, it's already quite overpowered. Maybe you're a God tanker but once I'm webbed, my chance of survival goes down tenfold.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Karjala Inc. Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.23 07:01:00 -
[12]
t2 stasis webifier optimal 10km -90% velocity falloff ~10km -20...-30% velocity ~24km
Would love it. ^^
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L70Rogue
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.23 07:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn t2 stasis webifier optimal 10km -90% velocity falloff ~10km -20...-30% velocity ~24km
Would love it. ^^
Wouldn't an optimal of 14km be better with 10km fall off? 60% at 24km
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L70Rogue
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.23 07:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kruel Giving them more range would hurt small close range ships even more. It's bad enough they're 90% and can now be overloaded to 13k range.
You wanna make the nanofad worse? Overpower webs some more.
13km web is useless against most nanoships that usually stay at 17km+ and many usually hover around t2 disruptor range.
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Terraform
Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.23 08:36:00 -
[15]
Webifier is STILL the most overpowered module in the game!
NO other module drops an attribute of a ship by 75% other than the webifier, and that's just the normal tech 1 unnamed.
No reason to complain about it really, as i see it, increasing the webbing range in the tech 2 webber will cause ships with bonuses to webbing range to become even more powerful, i highly doubt those ships need a boost.
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Gaia Thorn
Capital Produce Quantum Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 08:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Terraform Webifier is STILL the most overpowered module in the game!
NO other module drops an attribute of a ship by 75% other than the webifier, and that's just the normal tech 1 unnamed.
No reason to complain about it really, as i see it, increasing the webbing range in the tech 2 webber will cause ships with bonuses to webbing range to become even more powerful, i highly doubt those ships need a boost.
Could have sworn that ECM does a 100% effectiveness on my ship..
And they can do it from 200km+ .. hey go figure
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Ralara
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
Originally by: Terraform Webifier is STILL the most overpowered module in the game!
NO other module drops an attribute of a ship by 75% other than the webifier, and that's just the normal tech 1 unnamed.
No reason to complain about it really, as i see it, increasing the webbing range in the tech 2 webber will cause ships with bonuses to webbing range to become even more powerful, i highly doubt those ships need a boost.
Could have sworn that ECM does a 100% effectiveness on my ship..
And they can do it from 200km+ .. hey go figure
ECM:
1) Isn't guaranteed 2) Has a defense against it (ECCM, FOF missiles, Drones etc) -- Ralara / Ralarina |
Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.23 09:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 23/03/2008 09:51:35
Originally by: Bunj The current stats of the stasis webifier II are not in line with the other t2 propulsion jaming modules. The stasis webifer II needs a slight boost to range to make it so.
Atm
Warp disruptor I 20 km Warp disruptor II 24 km
Stasis Webifier I 10 km Stasis Webifier II 10 km
What we need is to have a 12 km range on the T2 Web.
This will make it balanced with the warp dis II and will also make slower tanked ships more viable in pvp (15.6 km overloaded).
Webs need scripts to be honest. Most competent nano pilts never really get into web range and web does not decelerate people fast enough to matter most of the time.
But what I think would work is a +100% range, -50% effectiveness web script. So a standard t1 75% web does 37.5% web at 20km (26km with overheating). This means a typical 10kms crow does 6,250 m/s. Seems pretty fine to me as multiple webs are required to slow it down and stop it.
T2 90% webs with this scripts would do 45% web at 20km (26km with overheating). So the 10kms crow would be only doing around 5,500m/s which is also pretty fair. Thats only 4-5 seconds to get out of web range so nano pilots can still do their thing, and a conventional gang will have to focus webbing, thus adding more tactics to the game.
So rather than solve nanos by a nerf, solve it by a boost by boosting webs via scripts --
Billion Isk Mission |
Squatdog
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.03.23 10:38:00 -
[19]
An extra 2km range is FAR more beneficial than increased speed impairment, but I guess scripts could be the way to go.
[yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato |
Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 10:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: L70Rogue
Originally by: Kruel Giving them more range would hurt small close range ships even more. It's bad enough they're 90% and can now be overloaded to 13k range.
You wanna make the nanofad worse? Overpower webs some more.
13km web is useless against most nanoships that usually stay at 17km+ and many usually hover around t2 disruptor range.
no its not. A 13 km web ovear heats to exaclty 17 km. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 10:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 23/03/2008 09:51:35
Originally by: Bunj The current stats of the stasis webifier II are not in line with the other t2 propulsion jaming modules. The stasis webifer II needs a slight boost to range to make it so.
Atm
Warp disruptor I 20 km Warp disruptor II 24 km
Stasis Webifier I 10 km Stasis Webifier II 10 km
What we need is to have a 12 km range on the T2 Web.
This will make it balanced with the warp dis II and will also make slower tanked ships more viable in pvp (15.6 km overloaded).
Webs need scripts to be honest. Most competent nano pilts never really get into web range and web does not decelerate people fast enough to matter most of the time.
But what I think would work is a +100% range, -50% effectiveness web script. So a standard t1 75% web does 37.5% web at 20km (26km with overheating). This means a typical 10kms crow does 6,250 m/s. Seems pretty fine to me as multiple webs are required to slow it down and stop it.
T2 90% webs with this scripts would do 45% web at 20km (26km with overheating). So the 10kms crow would be only doing around 5,500m/s which is also pretty fair. Thats only 4-5 seconds to get out of web range so nano pilots can still do their thing, and a conventional gang will have to focus webbing, thus adding more tactics to the game.
So rather than solve nanos by a nerf, solve it by a boost by boosting webs via scripts
that is the path. But the downside is.. omg Rapiers webbign me at 150 km.. WELP!! WELP!!! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:07:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 23/03/2008 11:07:44
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Lord WarATron
Webs need scripts to be honest. Most competent nano pilts never really get into web range and web does not decelerate people fast enough to matter most of the time.
But what I think would work is a +100% range, -50% effectiveness web script. So a standard t1 75% web does 37.5% web at 20km (26km with overheating). This means a typical 10kms crow does 6,250 m/s. Seems pretty fine to me as multiple webs are required to slow it down and stop it.
T2 90% webs with this scripts would do 45% web at 20km (26km with overheating). So the 10kms crow would be only doing around 5,500m/s which is also pretty fair. Thats only 4-5 seconds to get out of web range so nano pilots can still do their thing, and a conventional gang will have to focus webbing, thus adding more tactics to the game.
So rather than solve nanos by a nerf, solve it by a boost by boosting webs via scripts
that is the path. But the downside is.. omg Rapiers webbign me at 150 km.. WELP!! WELP!!!
Thats ok to be honest, since if a falcon can ECM from 200km+, then I have no issue with a theoretical rapier webbing at 150km at half effect with at +100% range, -50% effectiveness script. If the enemy is not tackled anyway all the rapier is doing is helping them warp out faster.
I think CCP relise that it is more complex to take out a nanogang than to become one that they will either nerf nano to uselessness or setup web range scripts. --
Billion Isk Mission |
astowv
Armoured Assassins Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:13:00 -
[23]
make web's innefective on fast moving ships ;) If you go 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13+ (Tri anyone ?) km/s, your web does 90-80-70-60-50-40 %
----
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RuleoftheBone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.23 11:58:00 -
[24]
LOL.
Train fitting skills. Use T2 webs and save money over fleetings for CPU. Train Recon V. I'm pretty happy with 40km 90% webbers thank you very much .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Grytok
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:06:00 -
[25]
Scripted Webs sounds fair enough and no, it won't make Rapier's or Huginns overpowered, as they can't scramble this far.
In combination with an Arazu (48km Scram Range) they don't need to load the script anyways, as they reach out that far allready.
+100% optimal range, -50% effectiveness sounds good. .
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Ki'esha Lorri'en
1st Legion Combat Liaison
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Posted - 2008.03.23 12:34:00 -
[26]
I would rather CCP reintroduce the propulsion strength value with a web stasis module checking against a ships' propulsion attribute to determine its effectiveness.
For those that don't know propulsion strength was a value back in Exodus; now you can only see it in the item database. It was never utilized for anything at the time and eventually dropped from view.
This could evolve where there are different webs for each propulsion type or scripts to maximize effectiveness; additionally this would allow pilots to increase a ship value through modules/implants to mitigate web stasis effectiveness.
Ki'
Quote: Odd objects attract fire. You are odd. -Murphy
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lorna Loot Edited by: Lorna Loot on 23/03/2008 02:09:43 OR the -15% extra in max velocity bonus is the stasis webifier II's tech 2 bonus. Just maybe.
Edit to shut people up:
Warp scram gets bonus to range, web gets bonus to targets max speed. Whats wrong with that?
Nothing. And this is the precise problem with people posting ideas to "fix" modules they perceive as broken. They will, almost as a rule, omit pertinent bits of information like this.
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bo Bojangles Eve is my 2nd mmorpg with GuildWars being my first even though it's been said that GuildWars really isn't a mmorpg but i'm not going into all that.
What I will say though is that Eve's version of the 'snare', that is the ability to remove mobility from your opponent and/or control the range is infinitely more powerful than what I was used to formerly. In GW the snare came in the form of a hex or condition, which was the healer's responsibility to remove as soon as they were able, but we're only talking seconds.
In Eve, the only way to remove the snare, that is for all practical purposes, is to destroy the snarer, which can be somewhat of a problem if you're piloting say the common AC Hurricane and run into the common Arty Huginn.
There's a reason why the T2 web didn't receive a range bonus as the disrupter did, it's already quite overpowered. Maybe you're a God tanker but once I'm webbed, my chance of survival goes down tenfold.
ECM and Damps are effective anti-scram methods.
Most nanoships (and interceptors) are highly susceptible to one or both.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Lorna Loot Edited by: Lorna Loot on 23/03/2008 02:09:43 OR the -15% extra in max velocity bonus is the stasis webifier II's tech 2 bonus. Just maybe.
Edit to shut people up:
Warp scram gets bonus to range, web gets bonus to targets max speed. Whats wrong with that?
Nothing. And this is the precise problem with people posting ideas to "fix" modules they perceive as broken. They will, almost as a rule, omit pertinent bits of information like this.
You mean bits of information like:
There are long-range, weak-effect (1 point) warp scams, and short-range, strong effect (2 point) ones?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Avon
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Posted - 2008.03.23 14:44:00 -
[30]
Web speed reduction should scale with range. 10km optimal, full bonus. 5km falloff (so 50% effect at 15km, 0% at 20km). (Actually, maybe a 2.5km falloff would be better).
Ay, whatever, tweak the numbers, but the concept is sound.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
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