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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:58:00 -
[451]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I was going to counter his post but you have sumed it up perfectly. Lets just hope that ccp doesnt cave into that whiny percentage of the eve population and alienate the long term loyal customers.
I am a long-term loyal customer, but currently I'm having my loyalty tested.
Originally by: Malachon Draco Imagine this. You have 20 million people wanting a 'carebear' game. And you have 500 thousand people wanting a 'hardcore' game.... That company has only 500k potential customers, but as long as they're the only one they dont have to share those 500k with the 199 other companies.
This assumes there are 500 thousand hardcore players out there who want to fly internet spaceships. If this is true, then they're not playing Eve because most of the current players stay in Empire where they feel safER. Perhaps CCP should make the game even harsher to encourage this mythical 500 thousand to sign up?
However, I do get what you're saying. And it would presumably cost less in advertising to forget about competing for carebears. But it won't keep Eve afloat, there's just not the demand.
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Saori Rei
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:12:00 -
[452]
The solution is painfully simple really.
REMOVE insurance payoffs for ships lost due to criminal actions in 0.5 to 1.0 space only. Yes this may mean that suicide gankers will target more expensive hauls but if they mess up and fail to kill the target they will suffer a proper loss.
So not only is that loss for a ganker standing, but also the -whole- cost of the ship and fittings. It all adds up doesn't it?
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Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:15:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Avon It is a bit like expecting a Pizza Hut to start selling burgers because you want to eat there, but you don't like pizza.
I like that snippet. Probably the most straighforward and common sense way anyone has put this across.
I notice on the Jihadsward killboard it looks like a ton of farmers were taken out earlier, so it's not all bad.
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The TX
Earth Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:15:00 -
[454]
Wow, epic-threadage.
This STILL going?
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CCP, please fix current issues before making new stuff: Are YOU A Happy Spaceman?
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Oosel
Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:18:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I was going to counter his post but you have sumed it up perfectly. Lets just hope that ccp doesnt cave into that whiny percentage of the eve population and alienate the long term loyal customers.
I am a long-term loyal customer, but currently I'm having my loyalty tested.
Originally by: Malachon Draco Imagine this. You have 20 million people wanting a 'carebear' game. And you have 500 thousand people wanting a 'hardcore' game.... That company has only 500k potential customers, but as long as they're the only one they dont have to share those 500k with the 199 other companies.
This assumes there are 500 thousand hardcore players out there who want to fly internet spaceships. If this is true, then they're not playing Eve because most of the current players stay in Empire where they feel safER. Perhaps CCP should make the game even harsher to encourage this mythical 500 thousand to sign up?
However, I do get what you're saying. And it would presumably cost less in advertising to forget about competing for carebears. But it won't keep Eve afloat, there's just not the demand.
me too this post was the final nail in the coffin lid of my eve days as i feel exactly as this person does......account ends on 18th april ill bob back in a years time to see if its all the same if not then its 6 years down the pan
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:19:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I was going to counter his post but you have sumed it up perfectly. Lets just hope that ccp doesnt cave into that whiny percentage of the eve population and alienate the long term loyal customers.
I am a long-term loyal customer, but currently I'm having my loyalty tested.
Originally by: Malachon Draco Imagine this. You have 20 million people wanting a 'carebear' game. And you have 500 thousand people wanting a 'hardcore' game.... That company has only 500k potential customers, but as long as they're the only one they dont have to share those 500k with the 199 other companies.
This assumes there are 500 thousand hardcore players out there who want to fly internet spaceships. If this is true, then they're not playing Eve because most of the current players stay in Empire where they feel safER. Perhaps CCP should make the game even harsher to encourage this mythical 500 thousand to sign up?
However, I do get what you're saying. And it would presumably cost less in advertising to forget about competing for carebears. But it won't keep Eve afloat, there's just not the demand.
I pulled the figures out of my ass to be honest. Its the principle that counts, not what figures are exactly there. CCP seems perfectly happy providing for what is a relative niche market, so I am assuming they did their homework and can make sure its profitable enough to satisfy their investors. Whether they need 200k or 300k or 500k subscribers in order to reach that point is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
To counter your argument one could easily point to SWG, where the developers dumbed down the game so much to cater for the biggest common denominator that they succeeded in failing to make money on the most succesful Sci-Fi franchise in history. Catering to the masses does not always end well.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:24:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Oosel
me too this post was the final nail in the coffin lid of my eve days as i feel exactly as this person does......account ends on 18th april ill bob back in a years time to see if its all the same if not then its 6 years down the pan
Could you explain what exactly is so unpalatable to you that you feel you need to cancel your subscription?
I can imagine lots of reasons people want to quit, but something as easily prevented as a few goonies suicide ganking in Empire seems a bit over the top.
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:29:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Malachon Draco one could easily point to SWG, where the developers dumbed down the game so much to cater for the biggest common denominator that they succeeded in failing to make money on the most succesful Sci-Fi franchise in history. Catering to the masses does not always end well.
Which is why I am most strongly in favour of solutions that enhance the game by increasing its complexity - ie, new stuff to counter the gankers, because the current options are insufficient. But I feel frustrated because it seems the most vocal gankers in this forum do not want to be countered by anything at all. -- CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:36:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: Malachon Draco one could easily point to SWG, where the developers dumbed down the game so much to cater for the biggest common denominator that they succeeded in failing to make money on the most succesful Sci-Fi franchise in history. Catering to the masses does not always end well.
Which is why I am most strongly in favour of solutions that enhance the game by increasing its complexity - ie, new stuff to counter the gankers, because the current options are insufficient. But I feel frustrated because it seems the most vocal gankers in this forum do not want to be countered by anything at all.
I am not a ganker, my secrating has been at 5.0 for as long as I can remember. And I do not necessarily object to a few changes that makes suicide ganking a bit more complicated or a bit more in line with the risk/reward or action => consequence principles that I believe Eve adheres to in most cases. I am however opposed to the classifying of suicide gankers as people who are sociopathic and/or otherwise mentally troubled in RL or to something that would make it practically impossible to suicide gank.
Actions require consequences. At that goes for the stupid carebear who moves 500m in a iteron IV with cargo-expanders while flying AFK as well as for the suicide ganker who has practically zero risk for his ganks.
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:38:00 -
[460]
Craaaaaaaaaaaaawling in my hull, this structure will not heeeeeeeeeaaaaall...
_______________________________ http://epicwords.net/ |
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Annaphera
The Green Machine
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:38:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
3) No insurance for CRIMINALS. Meaningful consequences to criminal acts. Already posted a whole list of options to accomplish this, twice.
But this will only serve to increase the required value of a target before people gank it. If people see a hauler with 500mil worth of stuff in it they aren't going to be worried about throwing 10, 20, 30, 100mil worth of ships at it, even without insurance.
The problem is people not protecting their investments, and hoping the game will do it for them, rather than the people trying to make an easy buck.
Avon, seriously, you've almost got the point here. The idea is to make things like the Jihad cost, while not damaging the mechanic of suicide ganking too much. It is part of the EVE universe, and according to the devs, it's supposed to be there. Fine, dropping insurance payouts won't cripple it, the smart high sec gate campers will just choose their targets with a bit more care (I'm of the opinion that they already choose targets valuable enough that no insurance money wouldn't matter). However, a massive campaign to kill off ships that will likely only drop a few mil in mining lasers (for example) will become expensive, fast.
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:46:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Malachon Draco Actions require consequences. At that goes for the stupid carebear who moves 500m in a iteron IV with cargo-expanders while flying AFK as well as for the suicide ganker who has practically zero risk for his ganks.
That is fair. I do not claim to know the mind of CCP, but I believe they imagined high-sec ganking would be a rare event, sufficient to provide a sense of danger, but not so common that the forums overflow with complaints. I would just like to see it balanced enough to make it rare again. -- CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:59:00 -
[463]
So long as you follow the advice that is readaly available and fit a good defence the chances of someone managing to suicide gank you are slim to none.
As I have said many times, 99% of people in high sec will not attack you due to the current penalties. The game mechanics are fine people just need to learn that high sec is not 100% safe.
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Ooyama
Rastana CMP
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:42:00 -
[464]
My endconclusion whould be; To make hisec ganking/griefing more of a riskbussiness,,, give people who do it a 2 hour criminalflag for all (except concord/faction) and don't pay 'em any insurance on ships lost on their account.
Just my 2 isk,
Ooyama.
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Angelus X
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:41:00 -
[465]
Just read the first post and jumped to the reply button so apologies if this has already been said, butttt.....
For Raytian, or anyone with similar feelings, or in a similar position, allow me to let you in on a little secret.
Regardless of whether you plan to dump your eve subscriptions, keep on playing, or turn into a 'badass pvper to take you're revenge' ^_^
Posting "WAA THEY KILLED MY HULK I AM THE GRIEFED" type threads does only two things. Make you a laughing stock, but more importantly make the Goons very, very happy :)
I'd be lying if I said don't enjoy the occasional (ingame) grief myself, but you gotta laugh at how ironic it is, for these players leaving eve, because of other players ganking them, one of their last few actions, making posts like this that make said ganking players sooo happy, and only encouraging them to gank further ---
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:55:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Angelus X I'd be lying if I said don't enjoy the occasional (ingame) grief myself, but you gotta laugh at how ironic it is, for these players leaving eve, because of other players ganking them, one of their last few actions, making posts like this that make said ganking players sooo happy, and only encouraging them to gank further
I'm all for it myself. The more whining and subsequent goon trolling, the bigger the problem appears, and the faster something will get done about it.
-- CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Lord Roshan
Galactic Confederation ICARUS Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:56:00 -
[467]
I lost a Hulk a few days back, I simply checked the JihadSwarm website, And looked at all Corps within GoonSwarm who have been involved with the suicide bombings. And set them all to -3.5. Seen a few Goons enter systems. never stayed long enough to die. I don't quit over my 120,000,000 isk loss. Because I can earn it back. And even with ISK losses, I will have my Skills trained -------------------------------- CEO of Galactic Confederation. Contact Lord Roshan or Monosol in game for info on joining GCON. |
Angelus X
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:52:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Inconstant Moon I'm all for it myself. The more whining and subsequent goon trolling, the bigger the problem appears, and the faster something will get done about it.
Ah good to hear you favour the 'WAA WAA WAAAAAAAAA NO FAIR CCP! NO FAIR!' approach too. You and the GOON's have more in common than you probably think ---
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:04:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Angelus X You and the GOON's have more in common than you probably think
Apparently so, as we are all working towards getting suicide ganking dealt with once and for all!
-- CONCORD provides neither consequences nor safety. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:12:00 -
[470]
Just remove the insurance payout for being killed by Concord and that should still allow people to suicide gank when they want and they have some real penelty for doing it.
I love it when people say, 'Post with your main!'... This changes the argument how?
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astowv
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.27 21:51:00 -
[471]
I........I.....I......I..I...ca....car......neeeh, I dont
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