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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:46:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 11:46:30
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
And how is it good to have a friendly, honorable and mature player quitting?
Of course you only want psychopatic ******s turn this game into a cesspool, but instead we need more good, intelligent, and mature players.
So funny when you come with childish insults all the time while pretending to stay on some kind of moral highground.
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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:47:00 -
[212]
Originally by: mahj Ankhesentapemkah for CSM!!!!!!
I feel sorry for CCP and the other CSM members if he is elected.
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:49:00 -
[213]
It is plain to see that the Goons and their like have no loyalty to this game, despite their raucous monkey-shrieks of what the game is 'intended' to be.
These people are hell-bent on imposing their play style on the majority, for good or ill so long as suits themselves. It is not constructive, it upsets the players and ruins the forums (which prospective customers can read), and ultimately it is an attack on Eve itself.
Goons = the crapification of Eve.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 11:55:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: baltec1
And yes he is quitting over a single ship loss. Spin it any way you want, this whole post was started because he lost a ship to goonies and he didnt like it.
No, he's quitting because he can't play Eve the way he wants.
What's he gonna do, buy another hulk and spend the rest of his days staring at Local?
Oh yeah sounds like fun.
Have you ever tried to mine Ice? I dare you to do it for 1 hour and not get up to take a leak or get a drink.
1) The hulk is underpar, it needs another mid slot and general buffs IMO 2) Concord does not provide consequence as long as insurance pays out 3) Mining as a profession in general sucks 4) The drone regions were a BIG mistake
And Baltec you're a real tough guy eh? You're a real hard man talking down to empire miners.
1. I lost a miner in high sec to a war target and have had contless cans full of ore stolen. Yet I dont ***** about it on forums. It happens and there is no point in getting all ****y about it.
2. I never attack anything in empire unless its a war target. The sec drop and loss of ship is not something I want to be worring about since I need to come to empire to replace my ships.
3. I watch local, allience chat and several other channels for reports of incomming ships. I think miners can handle scanning local chat every so often for goons.
And no Im not a tough guy. I just dont go and cry over a lost ship that can easily be kept alive if you just pay attention and use the right tools for the job.
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Tenfour RubberDucky
Sinq Laison Assoc. of Manufacturers and Miners
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:03:00 -
[215]
Man what a bunch of idiots. I am quitting also ... not a miner haven't lost a ship (friends have). I am quitting because there is NO recourse to suicide attacks... you can not stop someone willing to trade their ship and sec status to pop your ship. You can not even put enough tank on a battle ship to overcome a suicide squad (I know I used to do it on low sec as part of a pirate corp but that was low sec). Anyone who says you get kill rights is deluded I have played since beta and have yet to locate someone I have kill rights on.<- Maybe I just have bad luck.
But the truth is using t1 ships/mods and lots of friends to suicide is a no cost/no consequence way to pop people. Sure you may lose a few mods and the insurance premium but you earn ten times what you lose regaining your sec status BS ratting in null sec.
The game is in sad need of balancing. Repercussions to lawless actions need to be implemented. I am not going to suggest anything in addition to what the intelligent people have already posted. I have been playing and beta testing mmo's for a long time pvp is fun (eve has the best system I have seen) trading and crafting are fun. But there must be balance. I may return someday if CCP addresses this intelligently. We will see.
ps I apologize for my spelling and grammar I have had very little sleep.
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Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:06:00 -
[216]
Erm, if you really think there's no way to avoid gankings you haven't really given it any thought. I'm not bashing or anything, just saying.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:17:00 -
[217]
Originally by: baltec1
And no Im not a tough guy. I just dont go and cry over a lost ship that can easily be kept alive if you just pay attention and use the right tools for the job.
That's better. I hate e-bullies.
Look man.
Yes, highsec is pretty boring.
But I don't see why Eve can't cater to all different types of players.
Quite frankly I don't see why Eve shouldn't have a "kiddie pool" area.
Its not like they're gonna be making megabucks.
I mean really, what do you care if some guy mines veld in complete safety? Why does it even matter to anybody?
Personally, I've always said, if you're a miner, head to 0.0 and mine the good stuff, don't waste your time in hisec.
Yet I can see no reason why someone should NOT be able to mine in hisec and be left alone if they so choose.
Lets take a hypothetical situation.
Lets pretend for 1 minute that ANY hostile act in highsec is gone, the game simply wont let you turn on your modules.
Now. Where would all the people who WANT to shoot stuff go?
Lowsec and 0.0 would get populated.
You know why hisec is overpopulated?
Because you can do EVERYTHING in hisec.
You can pew pew. You can pirate. You can mine. You can run missions. You can manufacture. You can run POS. You can flip cans. You can steal wrecks.
ANYTHING you can do in 0.0 you can do in High-Sec.
For this reason lowsec and 0.0 don't really have a reason to exist.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:18:00 -
[218]
Originally by: UGWidowmaker im amazed that people whine now that a corp finaly is helping the entire eve getting rid of carebears afk mineres in empire.. not to think about the greefing macro miners--- i personaly embrase goonswarm in this task. finaly someone is doing what the rest of eve have been whining about for years---
kill the macro miners goonswarm.. damn if i was rich i would help pay the cruisers they use---
Um... they are attacking ALL hulks you noob. They are not even remotely trying to go for just macrominers.
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Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:23:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Esmenet Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. Like in the real world, law enforcers often arrive too late at the scene of the crime, and even though they able to punish the criminal, they can't always prevent the crime.
Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of ôkamikazeö attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in.
Do you guys ever read?
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT SUICIDE GANGINK SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FFS !!!!!
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Avon
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:26:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Cipher7
I mean really, what do you care if some guy mines veld in complete safety? Why does it even matter to anybody?
So you would be okay with me running a few immune characters to earn ISK to send to my main to fund a killing spree?
In Eve everyone interacts, either consentually or otherwise - what you ask for isn't really possible in the context of the game.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:30:00 -
[221]
Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2008 12:32:43 Edited by: baltec1 on 25/03/2008 12:31:40
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: baltec1
And no Im not a tough guy. I just dont go and cry over a lost ship that can easily be kept alive if you just pay attention and use the right tools for the job.
That's better. I hate e-bullies.
Look man.
Yes, highsec is pretty boring.
But I don't see why Eve can't cater to all different types of players.
Quite frankly I don't see why Eve shouldn't have a "kiddie pool" area.
Its not like they're gonna be making megabucks.
I mean really, what do you care if some guy mines veld in complete safety? Why does it even matter to anybody?
Personally, I've always said, if you're a miner, head to 0.0 and mine the good stuff, don't waste your time in hisec.
Yet I can see no reason why someone should NOT be able to mine in hisec and be left alone if they so choose.
Lets take a hypothetical situation.
Lets pretend for 1 minute that ANY hostile act in highsec is gone, the game simply wont let you turn on your modules.
Now. Where would all the people who WANT to shoot stuff go?
Lowsec and 0.0 would get populated.
You know why hisec is overpopulated?
Because you can do EVERYTHING in hisec.
You can pew pew. You can pirate. You can mine. You can run missions. You can manufacture. You can run POS. You can flip cans. You can steal wrecks.
ANYTHING you can do in 0.0 you can do in High-Sec.
For this reason lowsec and 0.0 don't really have a reason to exist.
why change something that isnt broken?
I have heard all this before in another game. When SOE listened to these people it almost wiped out the game overnight. So long as you pay attention and use the right tools for the job you will not get killed by another player in high sec. The only reason I died in my barge was because I didnt follow my own advice and mined for an hour without looking at local.
Setting goons to -10 and looking at local chat is a surefire way to beat a bee attack. And lets face it local is alot more interesting to watch than the rocks.
CCP doesn't need to change anything, its the players who need to adapt.
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Kharadran Sullath
Noir. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:33:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Raytian ...I've already canceled my accounts...
See what he did there? ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:38:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cipher7
I mean really, what do you care if some guy mines veld in complete safety? Why does it even matter to anybody?
So you would be okay with me running a few immune characters to earn ISK to send to my main to fund a killing spree?
Isn't that what people do now?
And I don't see how it would be a problem if they TIGHTENED UP the money-making in hisec. 0.0 should be where the megabucks are, not hisec.
Actually 0.0 *is* where the megabucks are, unfortunately it's in the hands of %1 of 0.0 inhabitants who actually collect the rent and mine all the moons.
What caps and supercaps does is make isk-centralization even more important.
How many BS can you build for 1 Titan?
For every 1 titan an alliance builds, it could afford to provide BS for all its members in perpetuity.
Instead people are wasting their time making money to pew pew.
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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:39:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez Edited by: Vanessa Vasquez on 25/03/2008 12:33:54
Originally by: Esmenet Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. Like in the real world, law enforcers often arrive too late at the scene of the crime, and even though they able to punish the criminal, they can't always prevent the crime.
Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of “kamikaze” attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in.
Do you guys ever read?
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT SUICIDE GANGINK SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FFS !!!!!
*edit*
besides, your example is so funny. Yes, your "neibourhood" could be unsafe, and you can be killed or robbed. But wouldn't it be logical that when police arrives, the criminals would be arrested? And that's all what we are asking for. REAL Consequences!
You know if you had actually read my post (like you complained that others dont)you would see that: 1. The post i responded to claimed suicide ganking was some sort of unintentional glitch or exploit. 2. That the text is a direct copy from the links i posted showing ccps official policy on suicide ganking.
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Hohenheim OfLight
Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:39:00 -
[225]
I don't think the problem is with the fact that the goons can do this, its more with the fact that the punishment is nothing to them, they have unlimited resources to use up in doing this, ship loss is nothing, there needs to be a new punishment that fits the crime.
I think the best bet would be to denie gate use to suicide's gankers, if concord comes and blows you up then you can not use star gates for 24 hours in empire. if not a bit longer maybe (I would say a week but i feel that might be a bit long, but at 24 hours you could just make it the last thing you do before you logg off and if you know your not playing the next day due to rl, then its not a punishment at all really.) 48 hours that way they are trapped in one system, you can get a gang together to pop them, they can only buy or fly what's in that one system, thou nothing ot stop them planing a head with spare ships. ----------------------------------------------
Is mining for a hel mad? or just ambishus?
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:40:00 -
[226]
Originally by: baltec1
why change something that isnt broken?
I have heard all this before in another game. When SOE listened to these people it almost wiped out the game overnight. So long as you pay attention and use the right tools for the job you will not get killed by another player in high sec. The only reason I died in my barge was because I didnt follow my own advice and mined for an hour without looking at local.
Setting goons to -10 and looking at local chat is a surefire way to beat a bee attack. And lets face it local is alot more interesting to watch than the rocks.
CCP doesn't need to change anything, its the players who need to adapt.
Good post and pretty true.
I just cant help but think theres probably a better way.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:41:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Avon They can't choose that. They are playing a PvP game.
Not PvP zones, or instances, or flags, a PvP game. The whole thing.
PvP space is lowsec and 0.0, which facilitates PvP playstyles.
Highsec may not be totally safe, but it has CONCORD for a reason. That people find loopholes in the game mechanics to harrass innocent players is an oversight.
When do people learn that they do NOT have the right to take people's stuff everywhere and anytime they please?
Oh God, not you again.
Look, CCP themselves say that suicide ganking is the main risk in hi-sec.
I know you're invulnerable to trivial concepts like "facts" and "evidence" compared to those of much higher value like "daydreams" and "wishful thinking" but... let's quote the CCP website shall we. Just in case you get it THIS time:
Should I not be safe from attacks in high security zones?
In the universe of EVE, no space is 100% safe. It is vital for every player to realize this as soon as possible after starting playing the game.
Concord can't prevent all crimes
While concord and faction police forces have a firm grip on all empire systems with a security rating of 0.5 and above, they are not powerful enough to make attacks impossible (nor are they meant to be). They will attack unlawful agressors mercilessly and bring them down without failure. In many cases their intervention may not save the victim, but the agressor will be blown out of the sky and his security status lowered to reflect ConcordÆs lowered opinion of him.
Kamikaze attacks
Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of ôkamikazeö attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in.
Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ôkamikazeö attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipÆs wreck.
This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.
This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.
This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.
This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:43:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 12:44:13 Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 12:43:33
Originally by: Cipher7
How many BS can you build for 1 Titan?
For every 1 titan an alliance builds, it could afford to provide BS for all its members in perpetuity.
Instead people are wasting their time making money to pew pew.
Titans
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Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:44:00 -
[229]
aye, sorry, my fault
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:47:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: baltec1
why change something that isnt broken?
I have heard all this before in another game. When SOE listened to these people it almost wiped out the game overnight. So long as you pay attention and use the right tools for the job you will not get killed by another player in high sec. The only reason I died in my barge was because I didnt follow my own advice and mined for an hour without looking at local.
Setting goons to -10 and looking at local chat is a surefire way to beat a bee attack. And lets face it local is alot more interesting to watch than the rocks.
CCP doesn't need to change anything, its the players who need to adapt.
Good post and pretty true.
I just cant help but think theres probably a better way.
I dont. If you look after yourself then you have no problems. If you dont look after yourself then bad things can happen.
Its just like the real world. I will look both ways before crossing the road. The guy who doesn't is going to eventaly walk in front of a bus.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:47:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 11:46:30 So funny when you come with childish insults all the time while pretending to stay on some kind of moral highground.
Too bad it's not an insult, it's stating a fact:
Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior.
Guess what catagory these griefers fall into? ---
Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP! Visit our Campaign Website
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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:49:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 11:46:30 So funny when you come with childish insults all the time while pretending to stay on some kind of moral highground.
Too bad it's not an insult, it's stating a fact:
Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior.
Guess what catagory these griefers fall into?
I really feel sorry for you.
I think you should seriously consider not playing anymore games for a while and go outside to get some perspective.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:55:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Esmenet I really feel sorry for you.
I think you should seriously consider not playing anymore games for a while and go outside to get some perspective.
Maybe you should check my personal info on my site. As you can see there's a lot of other stuff I do besides playing Eve. ---
Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP! Visit our Campaign Website
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Avon
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:59:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior.
Actually, that definition more accurately fits a sociopath, who will disregard social convention in order to forward themselves and attain their personal goals and gratification. A psychopath doesn't have the ability to self regulate their actions, they lack the conscience which helps us differentiate right from wrong.
A sociopath constructs a world view that absolves themselves of guilt, whereas a psychopath is the victim of a mental illness or deficency which renders them unable to be constrained to their "super-ego", which in fact they can not even perceive.
Due to the difficulty in telling one from the other (because a sociopath has no trouble "pretending" they are a psycopath if it so suits them), the term sociopath has generally replaced psychopath in all areas outside strict medical definition.
Not that any of that matters. People who play "bad guys" are no more sociopaths than people who play on the terrorist side in Counterstrike are likely to be members of Al-Qaeda.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.25 12:59:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 25/03/2008 11:46:30 So funny when you come with childish insults all the time while pretending to stay on some kind of moral highground.
Too bad it's not an insult, it's stating a fact:
Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior.
Guess what catagory these griefers fall into?
Guess what category your inability to accept plain facts puts you in to?
If you don't like being tackled and getting muddy, don't play football.
If you don't like non-consensual spaceship combat, don't play EvE, which is designed, marketed, administered and played as a non-consensual spaceship combat game.
Seriously, like the poster above me says: if playing EvE is leading you to view the majority of other players as psychotic sociopaths then you should truly consider doing something else for a while. What's the next step for you? Calling baseball batters violent thugs for interfering with the peaceful game of catch that the pitcher and shortstop are trying to play? Demanding that dogs get therapy for barking at cats? Redesigning the rules of chess so that only pieces with a PvP flag can be captured?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:04:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Too bad it's not an insult, it's stating a fact:
Psychopathy is a psychological construct that describes chronic immoral and antisocial behavior.
Guess what catagory these griefers fall into?
Considering that around 1 in 30 of the general population exhibits psychopathic tendencies according to some reports, it is not surprising that an online game such as Eve should accumulate a higher concentration of these particular individuals.
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Bevingad husar
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:05:00 -
[237]
reading this makes me wounder.
Goonis ar running around grefing and killing hulks by the minute, losing aprox. 5-6 cruisers a pop, the loot from the hulk wont be near that in isk. so they ar obviously not doing the gank for profit?
Ss that means that it now should be ok to smartbomb jita on a regular basis, and the old GM statment of don¦t do that could be ignored?
Just quries
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:09:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Malcanis What's the next step for you? Calling baseball batters violent thugs for interfering with the peaceful game of catch that the pitcher and shortstop are trying to play? Demanding that dogs get therapy for barking at cats?
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mahj
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:13:00 -
[239]
I agree that players who play to greif are antisocial and just cant understand what this type of thinking can do to a person over time. People are what they do. In my profession "ambulance/fireman" i see the end results of this kind of thinking every time i go to work. Dead people every day practicaly. Almost every one is either a victim or a perpetrator. I also volunteer at a private school for kids and 90% of the boys are there for videogame recovery. The recovery proccess is to teach them how to think of others not as marks but as real people. Maybe eve could donate to the school? Might help out a few recovering addicts
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.03.25 13:16:00 -
[240]
Yet another victory for the Swarm.
Congrats people .
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler
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