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Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:22:00 -
[1]
As we all know, everything in Eve is generally planned around having some logical form of "counter measure".
Guns / tracking disruptors Missiles / defenders ECM / ECCM
However cargo and ship scanner modules have NO counter that can be fitted. (... and roid scanners, but that's not important right now!)
I propose a module that can be fitted: "Cargo Cloaker" or "Module Cloaker". This is a skill based module that can be trained up to 5 levels. Each level trained would give a 7.5% chance of feeding a false but believable result back to the person attempting to scan you, with a maximum chance of 37.5% per module.
Each module would take a low slot and is stackable with the usual stacking penalties, ie more than 3 is pointless.
Risk vs reward stays balanced. If you insist going out with your indy full of low slot expanders you will still have a major risk of getting got.
What does the panel think of that as a potential route forward?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:26:00 -
[2]
If that percentage works like hardeners, I think that this would work.
With the skill at level 5: 1 Module - 62.5% 2 Modules - 45.5% 3 Modules - 30.7% 4 Modules - 20.7% 5 Modules - 14% 6 Modules - 9.5%
Seems pretty reasonable to me. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24) |
Avon
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Avon on 27/03/2008 14:32:45 The best defence is to make your ship look unbeatable, and that requires it to be scanned. If everyone starts hiding themselves from scanning then they are going to get blown up "just in case", because a few bad targets will always be compensated for down the line with the next "big one".
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 27/03/2008 14:32:45 The best defence is to make your ship look unbeatable, and that requires it to be scanned. If everyone starts hiding themselves from scanning then they are going to get blown up "just in case", because a few bad targets will always be compensated for down the line with the next "big one".
And that's the real balance. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24) |
Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 27/03/2008 14:32:45 The best defence is to make your ship look unbeatable, and that requires it to be scanned. If everyone starts hiding themselves from scanning then they are going to get blown up "just in case", because a few bad targets will always be compensated for down the line with the next "big one".
I don't think so. People are risk averse...even the most diehard PvPers. Losing hundreds of million in ISKies on the chance of hitting the occasional gold mine is not likely. Most haulers are not valuable enough to kill.
To the OP I completely agree there should be something that allows haulers to "defend" themselves and a module like this has been asked for in the past. As usual CCP remains totally mum on the issue. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:42:00 -
[6]
How about if you get to program the result the module feeds to scanners?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malcanis How about if you get to program the result the module feeds to scanners?
Only if I can program it to send the attackers Tubgirl. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79.3 (Updated 3/24) |
Avon
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I don't think so. People are risk averse...even the most diehard PvPers. Losing hundreds of million in ISKies on the chance of hitting the occasional gold mine is not likely. Most haulers are not valuable enough to kill.
I used to do it. Trust me, it always pays in the end.
Besides, there are plenty of other ways of identifying juicy targets without using scanners.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:47:00 -
[9]
I actually think this is a decent idea, you should post it in the uh.. features and ideas is it? section of the forum I guess.
But, maybe it's just me now, I think if I were into suicide ganking haulers and I saw an itty V with cargo cloakers... Well, I'd suspect he had something to hide, something worth taking...
Then again, corporations could send a decoy ahead and have the real truck a system or two behind... this could open up a new bit of strategy and such, so it could be a very nice addition in the aspect of adding a bit more realism and immersion, who knows.
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Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Malcanis How about if you get to program the result the module feeds to scanners?
Perhaps a script based approach, so you can drop a script into place:
Beef up defence - falsely reports extra hardeners etc. Lower cargo amount - hugely drops amount of cargo carried. Fake cargo - replaces one cargo type with another of less value. Zyd for Veld for example.
I'm just happy my idea hasn't totally been shot down in flames TBH!
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Reyold Bengali
Unethical Heroes Edge Of Sanity
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Malcanis How about if you get to program the result the module feeds to scanners?
Like that idea. Devising a cargo loadout that doesn't look like an obvious fake, but also not tempting enough to warrant an attack could become an artform in and of itself. That is until somebody comes up with a few outstanding ones and passes them around.
Could also use it to simulate a really high-value cargo in a defenceless ship, for bait purposes.... ------- Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. |
Mighty Dread
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:54:00 -
[12]
Cloaking cargo wouldn't be as valuable unless everyone did it. A better idea is a way to cloak cargo as being something else. So you have salvage or T2 gear and you get a a drop down list before undocking as to what you can cloak it as; antibiotics, planetary vehicles, whatever.
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Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avon The best defence is to make your ship look unbeatable, and that requires it to be scanned.
Pushing my luck here a little, and I expect this to get a reaction that it's too overpowered (because it probably is!), but how about a chance based "Chameleon" module that actually makes your ship look like a different type of ship?
A cool idea that might be good for balance and RP is that the Chameleon module uses the molecular memory of the warp gate to make your ship appear like the last ship to make a jump through that particular gate.
Of course there needs to be a skill / counter skill available to modify the chance of someone being fooled by this disguise.
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:56:00 -
[14]
I do like the idea but there would have to be a lot of balancing to do if it were ever implemented.
It may also be difficult to program, as I imagine "ideally" it would report false cargo between +X% and -Y% of its value (Y > X). Completely random results would be equivalent to a complete mask.
The idea, I think, is that it would unreliably misreport the value of your cargo, but sometimes make you seem a sweeter target than you should be. In this way, you'd have to carry an incredible amount of cargo for it to do nothing, but I think also add an element of excitement to suicide gankers to know that they may very well get more loot than they scanned. . .
However, to be honest, it seems too hard to implement for such a small dimension of EVE.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:57:00 -
[15]
Quote: Losing hundreds of million in ISKies on the chance of hitting the occasional gold mine is not likely.
just a shame that hundreds of millions is, like, 20 attempts. Even if you hit targets that only returned 15-20 million, you're almost making money.
Improve Market Competition! |
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:02:00 -
[16]
Another idea. I'm full of 'em today!
Low slot module: Cargo Hold Demolition Mine Trainable skill: 5% per level, max 25% at level 5. Stack penalties apply.
Your cargo hold is rigged up with a military grade demolition charge to stop it falling into enemy hands. Destroys percentage of cargo over and above standard random damage upon ship destruction.
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The TX
Earth Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:05:00 -
[17]
I like this idea.
But doesn't hiding stuff in secure cans inside your hold stop people seeing what you got?
--------------------
CCP, please fix current issues before making new stuff: Are YOU A Happy Spaceman?
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 27/03/2008 15:06:56
Originally by: Fink Angel Another idea. I'm full of 'em today!
Low slot module: Cargo Hold Demolition Mine Trainable skill: 5% per level, max 25% at level 5. Stack penalties apply.
Your cargo hold is rigged up with a military grade demolition charge to stop it falling into enemy hands. Destroys percentage of cargo over and above standard random damage upon ship destruction.
Psht, that's not a bad idea. Still got a chance to get loot from a gank, perfect way to passively fight back at least :)
Originally by: The TX I like this idea.
But doesn't hiding stuff in secure cans inside your hold stop people seeing what you got?
No.
Improve Market Competition! |
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2008.03.27 15:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The TX But doesn't hiding stuff in secure cans inside your hold stop people seeing what you got?
I'm 99% sure this is an urban myth perpetuated within the community. I think it came about due to some people insisting that secure cans make it more likely to sneak illicit goods past racial customs.
I really should try it myself some time to be 100% sure.
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:28:00 -
[20]
All very interesting but the simple fix is to not payout insurance on suicide ganks. Simple easy code change.
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Avon
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: OneSock All very interesting but the simple fix is to not payout insurance on suicide ganks. Simple easy code change.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Bistot Kid
The First Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Bistot Kid on 27/03/2008 17:00:24
Insurance is not the answer.
-------------------- What? Me Worry? -------------------- |
Doonoo Boonoo
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.27 17:05:00 -
[23]
Low slot mod that uses a script.
1-Cargo Scanner Disruption script:Result of Scan only shows x % of your cargo(based on m3)Some items/stacks will show as less than they are while others won't show at all.
2-Emergency Cargo Forcefield:A protective force field is deployed around your can/cans(after your Ship is destroyed)on a timer which cannot be penetrated by anyone but the pilot of the ship for x minutes.(Giving people time to get back some of the stuff they lost)
*not too sure about 2 tbh.
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Overwhelmed
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.27 17:40:00 -
[24]
An idea I had that would be fun but also difficult function to balance would be booby-trapped decoy cargo; stuff that looks like real cargo but explodes when you try to dock with it. It would add an interesting element of reverse suicide ganking but who knows how that would work.
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