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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.05 11:52:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: maralt
Reducing it down to 200km should be the most if its gonna be reduced at all, at least then it will stop ppl from bringing a crap load of frigs and cruisers to own 0.0 and force ppl to at least improve there fleets.
Personally i think its ok as it is and ppl are whining before multi titans have been tested properly.
reducing it to under sniper range would be at least a good thing because will indeed have that effect . Giving battleships a fighting chance, slim but a fighting chance. PERSONALLY I would diminish to 180 km to be fair with all flavors of snipers (not all can fight over 200 km)
1. A 180-200+ down from 250km it would force the titan to be used offensively and get into position to DDD a fleet of BS.
2. It would still prevent zerging to gain space.
3. Dic's and hic's would still be popped by multi DDD blasts but then if you want to kill several titan's losing a few tacklers and having to replace them should not be the end of the world.
4. It would solve the cyno jammer issue as a fleet of BS could shoot the jammer out of range of the DDD blasts unless the titan comes into range forcing them to reposition or die.
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Traeon
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Posted - 2008.04.05 13:08:00 -
[392]
Quote: 1. At 200km reduced down from 250km would force the titan to be used offensively and get into position to DDD a fleet of BS.
Titans are already used offensively almost the entire time in my experience simply because no subcapital fleet will warp in on the same grid as the titan, unless it's a cynojammer scenario. In all other situations it's the titan that warps in onto the fleet, and 200km range isn't going to change much if anything at all. All that makes the current incarnation of DD's overpowered is still there.
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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.05 13:18:00 -
[393]
Edited by: maralt on 05/04/2008 13:30:00
Originally by: Traeon
Quote: 1. At 200km reduced down from 250km would force the titan to be used offensively and get into position to DDD a fleet of BS.
2. It would still prevent zerging to gain space.
3. Dic's and hic's would still be popped by multi DDD blasts but then if you want to kill several titan's losing a few tacklers and having to replace them should not be the end of the world.
4. It would solve the cyno jammer issue as a fleet of BS could shoot the jammer out of range of the DDD blasts unless the titan comes into range forcing them to reposition or die.
Titans are already used offensively almost the entire time in my experience simply because no subcapital fleet will warp in on the same grid as the titan, unless it's a cynojammer scenario. In all other situations it's the titan that warps in onto the fleet, and 200km range isn't going to change much if anything at all. All that makes the current incarnation of DD's overpowered is still there.
1. 200km DDD means a jammer can be popped by BS without getting hit by a DDD and the BS can also hit a titan if needed also outside DDD range.
2. If the titans warps in range, then you warp out of range/off grid, aligning is quite simple really maybe you should go back to the noobie school for pvpers.
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Havoc GunStar
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Posted - 2008.04.05 15:49:00 -
[394]
Originally by: maralt
2. If the titans warps in range, then you warp out of range/off grid, aligning is quite simple really maybe you should go back to the noobie school for pvpers.
Lately the lag created by the superweapon has had more of an impact on your ability to do anything when it's fired. In the past when Shrike would fire off his doomsday, I was always able to see it, and warp out. Last time not only did I not see the animation (all effects on), but I didn't even see him on grid till I'd lost control of my ship.
Anyway, if we want to push this toward full on capital combat, give me a captial class tackling module that will pin down a mothership or a titan. When faced with 8 titans, even attacking them with capitals becomes impossible if the only ship that can tackle them is a sub-captial.
Captial Warp Disruptors and Capital Stasis Webifiers please. Both of which should ignore the 'immune to ewar' get out of jail free card. |
maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.05 16:43:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Havoc GunStar
Originally by: maralt
2. If the titans warps in range, then you warp out of range/off grid, aligning is quite simple really maybe you should go back to the noobie school for pvpers.
Lately the lag created by the superweapon has had more of an impact on your ability to do anything when it's fired. In the past when Shrike would fire off his doomsday, I was always able to see it, and warp out. Last time not only did I not see the animation (all effects on), but I didn't even see him on grid till I'd lost control of my ship.
Anyway, if we want to push this toward full on capital combat, give me a captial class tackling module that will pin down a mothership or a titan. When faced with 8 titans, even attacking them with capitals becomes impossible if the only ship that can tackle them is a sub-captial.
Captial Warp Disruptors and Capital Stasis Webifiers please. Both of which should ignore the 'immune to ewar' get out of jail free card.
Lag effects every type of pvp, even small gang type on occasion and is no reason to nerf any ship. And although all hic's and dic's can be popped by multi DDD blasts id hardly call that a reason for removing the ewar immunity on super caps either, as a hic or dic can just as easily be popped by a bunch of ftr drones or the titans support fleet as well as a multi DDD blast so it still boils down to having reserves ready.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.05 19:51:00 -
[396]
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 05/04/2008 19:51:17
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 05/04/2008 13:30:00
Originally by: Traeon
Quote: 1. At 200km reduced down from 250km would force the titan to be used offensively and get into position to DDD a fleet of BS.
2. It would still prevent zerging to gain space.
3. Dic's and hic's would still be popped by multi DDD blasts but then if you want to kill several titan's losing a few tacklers and having to replace them should not be the end of the world.
4. It would solve the cyno jammer issue as a fleet of BS could shoot the jammer out of range of the DDD blasts unless the titan comes into range forcing them to reposition or die.
Titans are already used offensively almost the entire time in my experience simply because no subcapital fleet will warp in on the same grid as the titan, unless it's a cynojammer scenario. In all other situations it's the titan that warps in onto the fleet, and 200km range isn't going to change much if anything at all. All that makes the current incarnation of DD's overpowered is still there.
1. 200km DDD means a jammer can be popped by BS without getting hit by a DDD and the BS can also hit a titan if needed also outside DDD range.
2. If the titans warps in range, then you warp out of range/off grid, aligning is quite simple really maybe you should go back to the noobie school for pvpers.
Ahaha, you really havent done enough fleet combat in 3-4 mins module lag havent you.
The warping in titan will DD before the aligned ships can warp off if the lag is bad enough. If the titan pilots want to be sure their DD's hit they can get a warpin to the center of the bs blob, sending everyone out of alignment. Or if the lag isnt bad enough they can suicide a regular dictor and drop a bubble right on the fleet of bs.
In a real fleet situation against an enemy that knows what they are doing, and arn't completely dumb, your battleship group will be unable to warp off before the DD can hit.
I find the 30km range one more interesting, because it lets frigates and cruisers potentially mwd out of range, instead of having to leave grid and reload grid when they come back, and it lets fleets use warp bubbles to try to catch the titan out of DD range of their bs group in a regular fight. --
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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.05 20:51:00 -
[397]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 05/04/2008 19:51:17
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 05/04/2008 13:30:00
Originally by: Traeon
Quote: 1. At 200km reduced down from 250km would force the titan to be used offensively and get into position to DDD a fleet of BS.
2. It would still prevent zerging to gain space.
3. Dic's and hic's would still be popped by multi DDD blasts but then if you want to kill several titan's losing a few tacklers and having to replace them should not be the end of the world.
4. It would solve the cyno jammer issue as a fleet of BS could shoot the jammer out of range of the DDD blasts unless the titan comes into range forcing them to reposition or die.
Titans are already used offensively almost the entire time in my experience simply because no subcapital fleet will warp in on the same grid as the titan, unless it's a cynojammer scenario. In all other situations it's the titan that warps in onto the fleet, and 200km range isn't going to change much if anything at all. All that makes the current incarnation of DD's overpowered is still there.
1. 200km DDD means a jammer can be popped by BS without getting hit by a DDD and the BS can also hit a titan if needed also outside DDD range.
2. If the titans warps in range, then you warp out of range/off grid, aligning is quite simple really maybe you should go back to the noobie school for pvpers.
Ahaha, you really havent done enough fleet combat in 3-4 mins module lag havent you.
The warping in titan will DD before the aligned ships can warp off if the lag is bad enough. If the titan pilots want to be sure their DD's hit they can get a warpin to the center of the bs blob, sending everyone out of alignment. Or if the lag isnt bad enough they can suicide a regular dictor and drop a bubble right on the fleet of bs.
In a real fleet situation against an enemy that knows what they are doing, and arn't completely dumb, your battleship group will be unable to warp off before the DD can hit.
I find the 30km range one more interesting, because it lets frigates and cruisers potentially mwd out of range, instead of having to leave grid and reload grid when they come back, and it lets fleets use warp bubbles to try to catch the titan out of DD range of their bs group in a regular fight.
Ive fought in 0.0 since almost the beginning from small gangs to some of the biggest fleet ops eve has seen titans included and blaming the lag is a absurd reason to nerf a ship cos it applies to all forms of pvp.
If your alliance cannot even watch a simple scanner for a dic, hic or a titan incoming then its your crappy FC's and pvp trainers who are either completely dumb or need to get more fleet training.
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Bozse
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Posted - 2008.04.05 23:18:00 -
[398]
Anyway, if we want to push this toward full on capital combat, give me a captial class tackling module that will pin down a mothership or a titan. When faced with 8 titans, even attacking them with capitals becomes impossible if the only ship that can tackle them is a sub-captial.
Captial Warp Disruptors and Capital Stasis Webifiers please. Both of which should ignore the 'immune to ewar' get out of jail free card.
Captial warp disruptors is fine by me, under the condition that you remove dictors / heavy dictors ability to tackle capitals as we most defenatly don't need a third nerf to one of the bigest selling points to super caps (especialy MS) which is EW immunity, webs nor any other EW shuld be able to bypass the EW immunity.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
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maralt
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Posted - 2008.04.05 23:27:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Bozse Anyway, if we want to push this toward full on capital combat, give me a captial class tackling module that will pin down a mothership or a titan. When faced with 8 titans, even attacking them with capitals becomes impossible if the only ship that can tackle them is a sub-captial.
Captial Warp Disruptors and Capital Stasis Webifiers please. Both of which should ignore the 'immune to ewar' get out of jail free card.
Captial warp disruptors is fine by me, under the condition that you remove dictors / heavy dictors ability to tackle capitals as we most defenatly don't need a third nerf to one of the bigest selling points to super caps (especialy MS) which is EW immunity, webs nor any other EW shuld be able to bypass the EW immunity.
So aside from keeping the titan from jumping out of the system (a negative effect btw) what is the diff between a dic or hic getting popped by multi DDD or a ftr swarm, support fleet......?
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.06 01:26:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Bozse Anyway, if we want to push this toward full on capital combat, give me a captial class tackling module that will pin down a mothership or a titan. When faced with 8 titans, even attacking them with capitals becomes impossible if the only ship that can tackle them is a sub-captial.
Captial Warp Disruptors and Capital Stasis Webifiers please. Both of which should ignore the 'immune to ewar' get out of jail free card.
Captial warp disruptors is fine by me, under the condition that you remove dictors / heavy dictors ability to tackle capitals as we most defenatly don't need a third nerf to one of the bigest selling points to super caps (especialy MS) which is EW immunity, webs nor any other EW shuld be able to bypass the EW immunity.
This, I always voted for capital disruptor but it needs to be done properly like requiring large amounts of cap to keep them going or require very specialize skills/fittings. Still find it silly a ship a couple hundred m's long can disrupt the warp/jump of a ship the size of a small city.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.06 01:50:00 -
[401]
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 06/04/2008 01:52:50
Originally by: maralt
Ive fought in 0.0 since almost the beginning from small gangs to some of the biggest fleet ops eve has seen titans included and blaming the lag is a absurd reason to nerf a ship cos it applies to all forms of pvp.
If your alliance cannot even watch a simple scanner for a dic, hic or a titan incoming then its your crappy FC's and pvp trainers who are either completely dumb or need to get more fleet training.
I did not suggest the titan should be nerfed because of lag.
All I stated is the simple fact that you cant always warp out, even if you are aligned if the lag is bad enough.
And on top of that if you read my suggestion, in order for the FC of the other fleet to be ready to intercept the titan in warp to make sure it falls outside of DD range they would obviously have to know where its at. Nope you seem more interested in the political discussion here and resorting to personal attacks.
I am suggesting, however that either titans need to be less able to kill bs blobs, or cynojammers mechanics will have to be changed at some point. Otherwise we will see systems changing hands very very slowly when one side catches another off guard. --
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.06 10:35:00 -
[402]
Edited by: maralt on 06/04/2008 10:40:59
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Originally by: maralt
Ive fought in 0.0 since almost the beginning from small gangs to some of the biggest fleet ops eve has seen titans included and blaming the lag is a absurd reason to nerf a ship cos it applies to all forms of pvp.
If your alliance cannot even watch a simple scanner for a dic, hic or a titan incoming then its your crappy FC's and pvp trainers who are either completely dumb or need to get more fleet training.
I did not suggest the titan should be nerfed because of lag.
All I stated is the simple fact that you cant always warp out, even if you are aligned if the lag is bad enough.
And on top of that if you read my suggestion, in order for the FC of the other fleet to be ready to intercept the titan in warp to make sure it falls outside of DD range they would obviously have to know where its at. Nope you seem more interested in the political discussion here and resorting to personal attacks.
I am suggesting, however that either titans need to be less able to kill bs blobs, or cynojammers mechanics will have to be changed at some point. Otherwise we will see systems changing hands very very slowly when one side catches another off guard.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you say - "in order for the FC of the other fleet to be ready to intercept the titan in warp to make sure it falls outside of DD range they would obviously have to know where its at" wtf does that mean?.
And as far as personal insults are concerned give a little get a little :-
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Ahaha, you really haven't done enough fleet combat in 3-4 mins module lag haven't you.
In a real fleet situation against an enemy that knows what they are doing, and aren't completely dumb, your battleship group will be unable to warp off before the DD can hit .
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Zenst
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Posted - 2008.04.06 19:40:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Yuki Nagato
Originally by: LukeDS there are ways to kill them
NO, THERE ISN'T.
Stop propagating this thought-terminating cliche. It is impossible. Here, let me give you a scenario:
Eight Titans on a grid. 3x Avatar, 3x Ragnarok, 2x Erebus. Any area within 250km of the Titan blob is a deadzone. You warp in your battleships -> double doomsday -> all battleships are dead. Then they doomsday again, and kill the pods. Now your entire fleet is without ships and in a station. If they happen to have a jump bridge or a Titan then they might be able to get back in. You reform your fleet which takes a while. All doomsdays reset and they have eight again.
You warp in heavy dictors -> the carriers/motherships escorting the Titans blow them away.
You warp in frigates with fighters -> they get smartbombed or doomsdayed.
You warp in caps -> they warp in battleships -> you warp in battleships -> they warp their support out -> you get doomsdayed -> they warp back in -> your capitals get destroyed.
Nothing can counter multiple doomsdays. Battleships cannot be "tanked" for more than two unless you use officer gear, rigs and expensive implants, and even then they can just fire five which is the max amount of HP a battleship can be theoretically tanked at with officer gear, overheated with T2 rigs, a full Slave set and a mindlinked Damnation in gang.
Subcapitals have no place in 0.0 warfare now, except as cannon fodder to cynosural jammer towers as they assault towers guarded eight invulnerable Titans with absolutely no friendly capital support.
The game is BROKEN.
Then how did you kill one with less toys on your side (pre HIC).
Same argument could be leveled at players - have more than one and there overpowered :|.
What your syaing is more than one Titan on a grid at once is an issue, but to that extent - more than one shuttle or noob ship on grid in a fleet fight is just as overpowered
Bottom line, there are indeed ways to counter all this and it dont involve the forums and is doable based upon your current assets.
But one has one question - you have the numbers to have 5 fleets easily so why do they all have to jump in at once!!! Just a observation and something you might want to ponder tacticaly ingame.
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.06 19:52:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Yuki Nagato
1. You warp in caps -> 2.they warp in battleships -> 3.you warp in battleships -> 4. they warp their support out -> 6. you get doomsdayed -> 7. they warp back in -> 8. your capitals get destroyed.
You forgot a point 5. your own support warps out to stop getting DDD'D or you use your own DDD to pop there support after point 2.
Is it just me or are you assuming that the titan support can warp out but the other support cannot, and the point of fact that nowhere do you use your own titan's to pop the other guys support.
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2008.04.06 20:09:00 -
[405]
CCP wount remove the DoomsDay Weapon, becouse it works as intended The is no rule in this game, not to have more carriers, more motherships and more Titans as the opponent. Oh, and GoonFleet titans working on the same game-mechanics as BoB Titans.
Lets go to the extreme and compleatly remove Titans from the game...... ......well, it wouldnt change the outcome of the great war, becouse the better entity would simply adapt and the other still whining on the forums...
Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
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Alyx Alyn
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Posted - 2008.04.07 02:05:00 -
[406]
Originally by: ChalSto CCP wount remove the DoomsDay Weapon, becouse it works as intended The is no rule in this game, not to have more carriers, more motherships and more Titans as the opponent. Oh, and GoonFleet titans working on the same game-mechanics as BoB Titans.
Lets go to the extreme and compleatly remove Titans from the game...... ......well, it wouldnt change the outcome of the great war, becouse the better entity would simply adapt and the other still whining on the forums...
I think you clicked on the wrong forum.
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Chruker
Murky Inc. Power Of 3
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Posted - 2008.04.07 10:55:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Traeon I suggested that the space where a doomsday is used becomes "drained" and subsequent dd's do less damage the more are used in a short timeframe. The space would return to normal after a certain amount fo time, say 60 minutes. In this way a single titan can dd as good as ever, but amassing titans for dd abuse won't be possible anymore.
Either this dimishing return or simply have one per grid per duration.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Zenst
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Posted - 2008.04.07 12:03:00 -
[408]
This whole diminishing return from DD based upon multiple ongrid is all very well but do CCP also limit damage to ALL ships on grid in the same manner as for all effect its a case of reducing damage a certain ship type can do and not others which by definition of the role of a Titan and its vulnerabilities and reduced capacity as it is; Well, it only leads to overnerfing.
I see no reason at all to nerf a ship based upon peoples FC's inability to even bother to use the right tools for the job. Seriously though rushing in your `entire` non capital fleet and expect to take out a ship worth alot more than your entire fleet is just wrong.
Bottom line there are ways to do this and they dont involve a lot of cheap T1 frigates and do involve some investment in capitals.
Now if ALL ship damage for respective fleets were balanced in this way, then that would be fair and indeed utterly silly.
But when you can - split your fleet to not all jump in at once.
Have access to your own Titans and large capital fleet (we are talking lots and lots of large alliances compared to one in this case now aint we).
Work on just the same laws of gameplay as everybody else and able to bring more to the plate.
When you take all things into aco**** this whole argument gets down to trying to win a rock-paper-sciscors game with the competition going paper all the time and you going rock and demanding that the paper be nerfed.
There are also many other ways to beat people out of a hole, brute force is one of them, but there are others.
But given that there are more people who fly T1 frigates ingame than Titans I can see how this got to so many lengthy pages of for all effect "Nerf X coz we blindly follow a bad FC". Like maths - you change all the dynamic variables and formula before you can even think about changing a constant. Basicly you adapt or just get another FC.
That said if you wish to hire me to give you a plan to beat this stalemate you appear to of reched then evemail me and I'll happily create a gameplan for you to get you over this large step you seem to be constantly tripping over. But given we aint talking about a sytem with just one point of entry and a syetm were there is more than 1 single moon, I realy dont see how you keep getting stuck
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Bosjathfort
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Posted - 2008.04.07 12:31:00 -
[409]
Edited by: Bosjathfort on 07/04/2008 12:33:28 What about reduce the DD range down to 150km and make the DD blast into a directional weapon, e.g. the titan pilot has to lock an enemy target and fire the DD to that target, the DD effect will have a 30~50km radius as the locked enemy target being the central point? Perhaps also increase the fuel cost per DD and increase the DD loading time, since 15 sec is way too short in a laggy fleet combat environment?
PS: give a limitation so that DD can only be fired every 30 mins per system
(>'-')> <('-'<) ^('-')^ v('-')v <('-'<) ^('-')^ (>'-')>
t(^-^)> |
Mendolorian Girl
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Posted - 2008.04.07 13:44:00 -
[410]
Edited by: Mendolorian Girl on 07/04/2008 13:45:10 I seem to recall hearing in a recent(ish) devblog that they're looking into another T2 Battleship using the Tier 3 hulls. They said that it would be an FC's ship, but there's only speculation on how that would be accomplished. Obviously it'd have an insane tank, but you don't pay 600m+ for a good tank.
So here's my suggestion (and how it works in with the Titan), add a new class of offensive warfare links that "passively" improve DPS, so things like tracking/explosion radius, rate of fire, range/missile speed would be improved. Make it so that the T2 FC Battleship can use these modules, but doesn't get any bonuses, and the Titan can use them and gets Command Ship style bonuses.
Both ships would improve the potency of any fleet (the Titan significantly more so), but would ofc be counterable with better/moar ships.
Not sure where I stand on more tank for supercaps tbh. If you're wanting Titan's to be properly frontlined (ala carriers/mom's) then yes, you need a better tank, but it all depends on the role it's filling. Mothership's... nah, they don't need a better tank, if they want they can triage when they get caught alone, and if they're in a fleet they're largely invulnerable anyway (not completely ofc).
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isdisco3
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.07 15:01:00 -
[411]
I like the idea of making it directional, not omni. Give it an explosion radius that's big enough to take out a swath of enemy ships, but not the wtfpwn factor of omni out to 250k. They're still incredibly powerful and useful (jumpbridge), they just won't be able to do what they do now - which is, in combination with a cynojammer, make a system completely unconquerable.
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clay trax
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.07 22:19:00 -
[412]
How about making DD stack damage output on titans only?
(DD count in system during 60minutes cooldown) 1 Titan DD's ~ 70k x5 damage to other titans and 70k to caps & ships in generel. 2nd Titan DD's ~ 70k x10 to other Titans and 70k to caps & ships in generel. 3rd Titan DD's ~ 70k x20 to other titans and 70k to caps & ships in generel. etc. you get it right..
Now it would be very risky to make more DD's in same system within 60minutes of the last one. Cant really say how i could explain this in a realistic way...however this would prevent doing the now BOB multi DD trick(soon others will follow).
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Berrik Radhok
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Posted - 2008.04.07 22:37:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Zenst [ Then how did you kill one with less toys on your side (pre HIC).
Pilot error.
Quote:
[ 2006.08.25 22:30:46 ] fire 59 > mate, im 230 and 6 ft 3, half caste and train every day
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:31:00 -
[414]
Jesus I can't believe this whine fest is still going on. The wambulance dispatchers must be out to lunch.
If your enemy can field 8 titans and you can't field at least 3 or 4 of your own, with a dozen motherships and 30+ carriers, YOU LOOSE, come back when you are a worthy challenge. Whining about it is like complaining that you lost to 10 bs with your 25 frigs. OMG! BS have too many hp to kill quickly with frigs, and their drones tear us up! No fair!
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HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:52:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Gaogan Jesus I can't believe this whine fest is still going on. The wambulance dispatchers must be out to lunch.
If your enemy can field 8 titans and you can't field at least 3 or 4 of your own, with a dozen motherships and 30+ carriers, YOU LOOSE, come back when you are a worthy challenge. Whining about it is like complaining that you lost to 10 bs with your 25 frigs. OMG! BS have too many hp to kill quickly with frigs, and their drones tear us up! No fair!
There are tactics you can form using interceptors to kite drones, out transverse BS guns and stay alive verses a battleship group. This means that the battleship group must bring Cruiser or Battlecruiser-based anti-support to counter them.
Against a Titan group there is no counter. One doomsday is enough to take out a BS not specifically tanked for the doomsday. Two is enough to destroy any BS that isn't rigged and specifically tanked. Three cannot be tanked using a battleship unless you entirely neuter its offensive capabilities, and then your enemy can just pick you off using conventional ships. Anything lower than a BS is obliterated by the first DD, meaning no antisupport.
If you want to save control towers, siege control towers, jump through a gate or any of the things generally associated with warfare, you need to be on a predictable grid which can be camped by Titans. "Strike other locations!", you say? Thankfully, reinforced timers DICTATE ENGAGEMENT TIMES to the second. Let me give you a rundown of what happens during a POS siege:
1. You suicide about a dozen or so remote repping BS (on a good day) to take out the jammer. Sometimes your enemy know you're coming and your BS fleet gets wiped out by a combination of fleet-fit BS, carriers and/or Titans. 2. You siege the tower with caps. It reinforces for 1d 17h. 3. You do the same in another system. They set the timer for 2d 2h. 4. For either situation, you have two choices: come back later, or stay in system. 4a. You come back around 1d 15h later. The cyno jammer has been repped, and your enemy has four Titans camping the gate with another four protecting the tower you wanted to hit. 4b. You stay in system and your enemy does the same with the eight Titans meaning your support fleet is completely useless. You cannot warp them onto the grid to kill the tower or take potshots at the shield repping carriers because you will get triple doomsdayed. They rep the tower and you failed in destroying it.
Now you have two choices at this point. Either bring your own number of Titans (and nullify their support fleet) or you don't have even a chance of taking out the tower.
The problem is that if you don't have the same level of deterrence, you cannot do anything. If you CAN field that many Titans, it becomes a capital-only affair, with subcapital pilots wondering why they even play the 0.0 warfare game when their only purpose is dying to Titans and POS gunners while shooting cyno jammers.
The point is that all of this is BROKEN. POS warfare by itself wasn't that great but combined with capital ships that become 250km radius killzones for anything less than a capital ship and you turn the heaping pile of crap that is POS warfare into a fresh new hell of pilot burnout and failure.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:07:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Gaogan Jesus I can't believe this whine fest is still going on. The wambulance dispatchers must be out to lunch.
If your enemy can field 8 titans and you can't field at least 3 or 4 of your own, with a dozen motherships and 30+ carriers, YOU LOOSE, come back when you are a worthy challenge. Whining about it is like complaining that you lost to 10 bs with your 25 frigs. OMG! BS have too many hp to kill quickly with frigs, and their drones tear us up! No fair!
CAOD is another forum. If you don't want to contribute to this discussion, don't post.
Also, well thought out post above me.
Nice work hydrosan.
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Saori Rei
Gallente Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.04.10 11:05:00 -
[417]
I've always hated titans and their DD, and to a lesser extent capital ships as well. When Titans came in game as an antiblob device I fell off my seat laughing as I expected them to either kill fighting all together OR promote even larger blobs.
Then its comes down to 'titan online.' When one is made more will be made, multiple titans in an area I'd consider game breaking. But this has been discussed to death and I will not bother, what I will say is this:
If titans are going to be altered in anyway, do it now while we don't have that many people who can fly them. Wait until there is a problem and there will be a good number more of people flying them meaning a LOT more people will get angry with the changes. Pre-emptive!
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HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.11 22:29:00 -
[418]
If you think eight Titans is broken now, just wait until alliances start getting ten or twelve of them: six on defense, six on offense. It probably wont be long until Band of Brothers or Morsus Mihi gain those kinds of numbers, and it wont be long before other alliances gain five or six of their own.
CCP, if you care about 0.0 warfare you will abandon this "blob killer" idea and look at the reasons of why blob warfare exists in the first place. Titans are taking what little enjoyment there was to be had out of territory warfare.
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stinger7
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Posted - 2008.04.11 22:32:00 -
[419]
Originally by: HydroSan If you think eight Titans is broken now, just wait until alliances start getting ten or twelve of them: six on defense, six on offense. It probably wont be long until Band of Brothers or Morsus Mihi gain those kinds of numbers, and it wont be long before other alliances gain five or six of their own.
CCP, if you care about 0.0 warfare you will abandon this "blob killer" idea and look at the reasons of why blob warfare exists in the first place. Titans are taking what little enjoyment there was to be had out of territory warfare.
I thought you were the big space holders on the block now?..so why aint you building em?.
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HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 02:18:00 -
[420]
Originally by: stinger7 I thought you were the big space holders on the block now?..so why aint you building em?.
What does the number of Titans my alliance owns have to do with what I said?
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