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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.24 20:43:00 -
[511]
Edited by: lecrotta on 24/04/2008 20:54:49
I do not need to justify or prove anything to you or anybody else for that matter although my experience comes from leading (on one of my main's) more fleet actions than i can even begin to count including titans on my side and against them. Although your sort of "go after the poster if you cannot handle or disprove the post" attitude belongs on CAOD.
Your problem is that you want ccp to remove titans/DDD from the game as they prevent the type of zerg warfare that you wish to use in eve. While myself and others are quite willing to see some sort of reduction in regards to the DDD but are unwilling to see it totally removed as it prevents any group or groups from spamming T1 cruiser or frigate gangs to take or hold space.
Now as myself and others have said reducing the DDD to 150km will allow them to remain useful against those who wish to conquer eve with blobs of T1 crap but also leave them vulnerable to well led sniper wings/fleets.
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HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.25 02:40:00 -
[512]
Edited by: HydroSan on 25/04/2008 02:40:14
I've reverted to using ad hominem against you because I've already written no less than three giant blocks of text and all you and the other one-man-alt-corp posters have done is:
1. Bring up politics including my alliance.
2. Shout ANTI-ZERG as loud and as many times as you can.
3. Bring up "suggestions" that would do absolutely nothing to prevent Titan stacking because it doesn't take into account anything I or other people have brought up in said giant walls of text.
Now either post with your main, address the things I've talked about or get out of this thread. Thanks in advance.
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Swp
Caldari
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.25 05:58:00 -
[513]
Edited by: Swp on 25/04/2008 05:59:02
why to remove it ?its so beautiful ! :D
http://www.evetube.com/index.php?playid=343
___
CVA THE AMARR EMPIRE (movie)
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.25 08:18:00 -
[514]
 Originally by: HydroSan
more pro zerg comments and alt insults
Even if i could post with one of my mains accounts instead of a cyno alts spare slot i would not simply because you would focus on the person not the point.
Your ideas as usual favor goons style of "blob T1 crap to win" so much that if things are moved in the direction you want we would see more of the coalition style warfare that we did last year only ppl will fly cheap rubbish. What would be the point of flying dreads or carriers or even battleships when you can put ppl in fitted ships that cost less than their clones and just spam them into systems over and over until you have worn down the ppl your fighting. This is the future you want for eve and it always has been from day one.
You claim its for the betterment of eve but the truth is its for the betterment of goons and nobody else, now you claim to have ad be a expert on fleet and titan warfare so if you cannot see the opportunities that a DDD that is reduced to 150km or so would bring a good FC then its only because you do not want to and thats your decision and narrow mindedness or lack of skill/gamr knowledge il let you decide witch.
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HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.25 19:13:00 -
[515]
Hey I'm just going to butcher this post by posting things I've already said.
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 25/04/2008 13:34:12Even if i could post with one of my mains accounts instead of a cyno alts spare slot i would not simply because you would try to focus on the person not the point, although as a 2003 player i have seen and led fleets in eve enough to know what i am talking about tbh.
My blocks of text have nothing to do with personal attacks.
Quote:
I just read your blocks of text btw and now Ive finished laughing i will just say that your ideas about how to fight titans are a joke. All of your negative comments involve your FC warping your conventional fleet into range of multiple DDD and getting nailed. Nowhere in your so called tactical knowledge and reviews do you use, consider the usefulness or that you even have your own titans or capital fleet around.
Your only point on your self acclaimed blocks of text is that a conventional fleet cannot beat a fleet of multiple titans + super cap support + cap support + conventional support . Well duuhh of course not ffs where would be the balance if they could?. But hey if you bring your own titans + super cap support + cap support + conventional support to combat them i bet you could put up one heck of a fight and have a chance to actually win unless your commanders are as lacking in combat skill and knowledge as you are.
My "only" point is that even with your own capital fleet and Titans support fleets are entirely nullified. Conventional fleets are absolutely useless when both sides have multiple Titans. You say there would be "one heck of a fight": of course there would be. Between the capital ships. The conventional ships just may as well log off because they're not going to fire a shot off before they eat 70k HP of damage.
Again: POS timers and the grids POSes occupy dictate WHEN and WHERE engagements will happen. "Attacking another location" is not an option if you want to take a system. The defenders can dictate the POS reinforcement timers so even if you reinforce two systems, your enemy can just time them 5 hours apart and move their Titans between the two systems.
Quote:
Your ideas as usual favor the style of "blob T1 crap to win" (or zerging if you prefer) so much that if things are moved in the direction you want we would see more of the coalition style warfare that we did last year only ppl will fly cheap rubbish. What would be the point of flying dreads or carriers or even battleships when you can put ppl in fitted ships that cost less than their clones and just spam them into systems over and over until you have worn down the ppl your fighting. This is the future ppl like you want for eve and it always has been from day one.
T2 snipers and HACs are just as dead in the face of multiple Titans as T1 frigates. Do you honestly think doomsdays discriminate between "crappy" ships and "uber" ships?
Nice ad hominem attack there by the way, but unfortunately I've been flying T2 snipers for a year now non-stop so that little theory of yours is patently false.
Quote:
You claim its for the betterment of eve but the truth is its for the betterment of your alliance and nobody else, now.... you claim to be a expert on fleet and titan warfare so if you cannot see the opportunities that a DDD that is reduced to 150km or so would bring a good FC then its only because you do not want to and thats your narrow mindedness or lack of skill/game knowledge i will let you decide witch.
I claim it's for the betterment of conventional fleet warfare. Conventional ships are what the majority of EVE fly. So yes, I want the game to be better for the majority of EVE players.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.25 19:32:00 -
[516]
Edited by: lecrotta on 25/04/2008 19:36:25
Originally by: HydroSan
My "only" point is that even with your own capital fleet and Titans support fleets are entirely nullified. Conventional fleets are absolutely useless when both sides have multiple Titans. You say there would be "one heck of a fight": of course there would be. Between the capital ships. The conventional ships just may as well log off because they're not going to fire a shot off before they eat 70k HP of damage.
As i have clearly stated over and over again and you seem to keep ignoring in your haste to reduce eve to a t1 blobbing game, reducing the DDD to a range of around 150km will give conventional fleets a big enough window to attack along with whatever capital assets you bring.
Unless you are still going to warp inside that 150km with your conventional ships in which case you deserve to die.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.25 19:55:00 -
[517]
Originally by: HydroSan
Edited by: HydroSan on 25/04/2008 02:40:14
I've reverted to using ad hominem against you because I've already written no less than three giant blocks of text and all you and the other one-man-alt-corp posters have done is:
1. Bring up politics including my alliance.
2. Shout ANTI-ZERG as loud and as many times as you can.
3. Bring up "suggestions" that would do absolutely nothing to prevent Titan stacking because it doesn't take into account anything I or other people have brought up in said giant walls of text.
Now either post with your main, address the things I've talked about or get out of this thread. Thanks in advance.
Now you know how it feels.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.25 21:30:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: HydroSan
Edited by: HydroSan on 25/04/2008 02:40:14
I've reverted to using ad hominem against you because I've already written no less than three giant blocks of text and all you and the other one-man-alt-corp posters have done is:
1. Bring up politics including my alliance.
2. Shout ANTI-ZERG as loud and as many times as you can.
3. Bring up "suggestions" that would do absolutely nothing to prevent Titan stacking because it doesn't take into account anything I or other people have brought up in said giant walls of text.
Now either post with your main, address the things I've talked about or get out of this thread. Thanks in advance.
Now you know how it feels.
You, of all people, dont get to make this claim. |
Leto Aramaus
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.25 22:45:00 -
[519]
Titans... and their doomsdays, are awesome. I think no ship smaller than a Capital should survive ONE doomsday. no matter how tanked it is. However 8 titans is quite ridiculous and does ruin fleet combat, to an extent. So my suggested solution is to make Titans more expensive. MUCH MUCH more expensive, so no single alliance can amass that many titans unless they build them up and save them and never use them. Also the doomsday should require more time to recharge before using again. If titans and their superweapons had these attributes I think I would say good job to anyone who had a fleet of 8 of them.
--Freedom |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.25 23:36:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Gamesguy
You, of all people, dont get to make this claim.
That is rich, coming from you. |
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HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.26 01:54:00 -
[521]
Edited by: HydroSan on 26/04/2008 01:55:47
Originally by: Leto Aramaus
Titans... and their doomsdays, are awesome. I think no ship smaller than a Capital should survive ONE doomsday. no matter how tanked it is. However 8 titans is quite ridiculous and does ruin fleet combat, to an extent. So my suggested solution is to make Titans more expensive. MUCH MUCH more expensive, so no single alliance can amass that many titans unless they build them up and save them and never use them. Also the doomsday should require more time to recharge before using again. If titans and their superweapons had these attributes I think I would say good job to anyone who had a fleet of 8 of them.
This would only cement the superiority of alliances who already own a dozen Titans and entirely shut out any of the newer alliances who would like to build their own.
Originally by: lecrotta
As i have clearly stated over and over again and you seem to keep ignoring in your haste to reduce eve to a t1 blobbing game, reducing the DDD to a range of around 150km will give conventional fleets a big enough window to attack along with whatever capital assets you bring. Unless you are still going to warp inside that 150km with your conventional ships in which case you deserve to die.
In your idea of eve without titans it would not be worth flying anything but a t1 frig or cruiser along with 3-500 other brosefs in a fleet and with more in reserve a few jumps out, after all what would be the use of a 200+ mil t2 sniper ship when you can spam 50 cruisers for the same price at no more risk?.
Okay I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and present to you an entirely plausible situation assuming we go by your 150km doomsday nerf theory.
My alliances has ten Titans. I keep five on grid in a group and five off grid at a POS. My enemy warps in at 190km within T2 battleship sniper range. If they primary a Titan, it can absorb up to 7k DPS sustainably due to officer mods and officer cap rechargers. Meanwhile, I use my three dictor alts to bubble the enemy battleship fleet and warp in my five remaining Titans into them and set off three doomsdays: their entire fleet is dead.
Second scenario: my enemy wishes to take down a cyno jammer. They must either come in point blank in remote repping high-DPS battleships or go out to sniping range with T2 snipers. I warp in my four dictor alts, bubble them, and have five of my Titans warp in and doomsday: their entire fleet is dead.
You entire theory fails to take into account both Titan stacking and the fact that Titans can warp, jump, cloak and move. What happens when alliances get 15 Titans, which is at most six months away at this rate? Just keep five Titans in little blobs at every possible approach vector and you've got a system which is a complete subcapital killzone.
Let's just hope CCP doesn't share your "go capital or go home" approach.
My skillpoints, my player skill, my ship, my modules and the skill of the FC MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when the enemy can Right Click -> Warp to Member and press F1 to wipe me out.
Post with your ******* main.
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Foomanshoe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.26 03:35:00 -
[522]
Rather then reducing range or giving them a ridiculous CD. I think it would be better if the grid had a 'soft' CD. Basically add in a warning that if multiple doomsday devices are activated in the same vicinity, the results could be disasterous.
Then basically give each grid a variable "doomsdayactivate 0/1" which resets each day, if the value is 1 and a doomsday is activated, a warning pops up saying this region of space is highly unstable due to an earlier activation are you sure you wish to continue?
If they do it, they have a 50% chance to rip a hole in space and kill everything, including any titans present. The hole is left as a new feature in space.
Basically activating multiple doomsday is to dangerous to attempt unless you absolutely need everything there to die. It also discourages clumping titans together as your enemy could take out multiple titans by sacrificing one of their own.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.26 04:14:00 -
[523]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Gamesguy
You, of all people, dont get to make this claim.
That is rich, coming from you.
Is there a parrot in the room?
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.26 09:42:00 -
[524]
Originally by: HydroSan
Okay I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and present to you an entirely plausible situation assuming we go by your 150km doomsday nerf theory.
My alliances has ten Titans. I keep five on grid in a group and five off grid at a POS. My enemy warps in at 190km within T2 battleship sniper range. If they primary a Titan, it can absorb up to 7k DPS sustainably due to officer mods and officer cap rechargers. Meanwhile, I use my three dictor alts to bubble the enemy battleship fleet and warp in my five remaining Titans into them and set off three doomsdays: their entire fleet is dead.
Second scenario: my enemy wishes to take down a cyno jammer. They must either come in point blank in remote repping high-DPS battleships or go out to sniping range with T2 snipers. I warp in my four dictor alts, bubble them, and have five of my Titans warp in and doomsday: their entire fleet is dead.
You entire theory fails to take into account both Titan stacking and the fact that Titans can warp, jump, cloak and move. What happens when alliances get 15 Titans, which is at most six months away at this rate? Just keep five Titans in little blobs at every possible approach vector and you've got a system which is a complete subcapital killzone.
Let's just hope CCP doesn't share your "go capital or go home" approach.
My skillpoints, my player skill, my ship, my modules and the skill of the FC MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when the enemy can Right Click -> Warp to Member and press F1 to wipe me out.
Post with your ******* main.
I see once again your idea about titans/DDD being broken relies heavily on:
1. Your members being total morons and not being able to align there ships for some reason.
2. Your leaders/scouts not having a clue what so ever about how to use a scanner and checking for incoming dictors .
3. Your smaller support not popping incoming dictors .
4. Your cloaked titans dropping cloak and virtually insta warping to the grid point so it can pop its load before also getting scanned and allowing your snipers to warp away and come in at another angle. (cos titans are fast at warping just like interceptors hey bud).
5. Once again you do not include your own capital fleet in any of the equation's and scenarios as im sure they could easily deal with the 7k sustained dps tank while laughing at the DDD.
6. Not only that but having capital support on grid or in the area would make most titan pilots think carefully about just casually warping in and dropping a load .
Now every one of you so called scenarios as usual rely totally on your fleet commanders, scouts and members being total morons and not only that but you scenarios are utterly unrealistic as they rely on titans being able to buzz about like a interceptor .
For somebody who claims to be a expert on titans and fleet warfare you are either being deliberately dense or you just suck at what you claim to know about.
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Kaaii
Caldari
PixelJuice Design
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.04.26 10:58:00 -
[525]
Look at all the goons in this thread.....
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.04.26 17:12:00 -
[526]
Edited by: Thirzarr on 26/04/2008 17:12:08
Put a system-wide shared cooldown of 24h on Doomsday Devices.
The System just cant handle another explosion of that sort. So no two Doomsday devices can get fired off in one System in one day.
Call it "System Stability Cooldown".
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.27 05:06:00 -
[527]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/04/2008 10:22:10
I see once again your idea about titans/DDD being broken relies heavily on:
1. Your members being total morons and not being able to align there ships for some reason.
2. Your leaders/scouts not having a clue what so ever about how to use a scanner and checking for incoming dictors.
3. Your smaller support not popping incoming dictors.
4. Your cloaked titans dropping cloak and virtually insta warping to the grid point so it can pop its load before also getting scanned and allowing your snipers to warp away and come in at another angle. (cos titans are fast at warping just like interceptors hey bud). Or getting probed, bubbled and owned by your cap/conv fleet before it warps.
5. Once again you do not include your own capital fleet in any of the equation's and scenarios as im sure they could easily deal with the 7k sustained dps tank while laughing at the DDD.
6. Not only that but having capital support on grid or in the area would make most titan pilots think carefully about just casually warping in and dropping a load.
7. 15 titans to cover every possible vector?.. are you kidding?.. even if they could to do so would put them way out of position as groups and vulnerable to attack from your capital fleet and snipers. (do you have any tactical xp at all?)
Now every one of your so called scenarios as usual rely totally on your fleet commanders, scouts and members being total morons who are unable to use even a scanner let alone probes and not only that but your scenarios are utterly unrealistic as they rely on titans being able to buzz about like a interceptor.
For somebody who claims to be a expert on titans and fleet warfare you are either being deliberately dense or you just suck at what you claim to know about.
I had to reply because just wow, are you ever so blind.
1) He said the fleet was bubbled, you can be aligned all you want but it wont matter because you cant warp.
2) How do you use a scanner to check for incoming dictors when there are 15 in your scan results every time, some on grid some off grid. Preventing a dictor from warping in and dropping a bubble is pretty much not feasable unless you want to keep warping your fleet out and never getting anything done.
3) Tell me which small support can tank pos guns easily, and pop a dictor fast enough. And anti dictor ships wont be able to pop any dictors in warp till they come out of warp. So if your enemy uses a covops they could easily get a 0km warpin on your bs fleet.
4) why would they have to cloak, they can simply just be aligned.
5)You cannot have caps in a cyno-jammed system unless you had them there before the cyno jammer went up, or logged off after you knocked down the cyno jammer on a previous attempt. So this point is irrelevent
6) Cant have caps, see cynojammer, cyno jammers prevent cynos. The only other way to get caps in is through a jump bridge, which requires sov
7) If you dont have a cap fleet in system you cant use it can you?
The main question of this thread is how does a BS and smaller gang outwit a titan pilot to kill a cyno jammer with an enormous amount of HP (so much HP that alliances prefer to destroy the module and anchor a new one instead of repping it).
basically your saying its tactically stupid to attack a system with a gang of players if the system contains 3 titans and ~6 dictors and a cyno jammer. While everyone else is saying, why should it?
--
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jayloh
Minmatar
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.27 06:13:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
I had to reply because just wow, are you ever so blind.
1) He said the fleet was bubbled, you can be aligned all you want but it wont matter because you cant warp.
2) How do you use a scanner to check for incoming dictors when there are 15 in your scan results every time, some on grid some off grid. Preventing a dictor from warping in and dropping a bubble is pretty much not feasable unless you want to keep warping your fleet out and never getting anything done.
3) Tell me which small support can tank pos guns easily, and pop a dictor fast enough. And anti dictor ships wont be able to pop any dictors in warp till they come out of warp. So if your enemy uses a covops they could easily get a 0km warpin on your bs fleet.
4) why would they have to cloak, they can simply just be aligned.
5)You cannot have caps in a cyno-jammed system unless you had them there before the cyno jammer went up, or logged off after you knocked down the cyno jammer on a previous attempt. So this point is irrelevent
6) Cant have caps, see cynojammer, cyno jammers prevent cynos. The only other way to get caps in is through a jump bridge, which requires sov
7) If you dont have a cap fleet in system you cant use it can you?
The main question of this thread is how does a BS and smaller gang outwit a titan pilot to kill a cyno jammer with an enormous amount of HP (so much HP that alliances prefer to destroy the module and anchor a new one instead of repping it).
basically your saying its tactically stupid to attack a system with a gang of players if the system contains 3 titans and ~6 dictors and a cyno jammer. While everyone else is saying, why should it?
Your points are maybe all valid and reasonable. But you are talking about one special situation that is where more than 5 titans are defending one cyno-jammed system. In all other scenarios the DDD is quite ok the way it is working and there are more than enough ways to evade a titan DDD with your supcap fleet and make the titan pay for coming out of its hiding. Since the only people that experienced such a situation are people that tried to take on the NOL-fortress no one besides RAswarm really cares about that.
All IĈm saying: DonĈt change DDD, change the way sovereignty (and therefore cyno jam) is handled which would make way more sense because you can address other issues in the same run.
I for one would be glad if there would be more titans around so we can make em go pop
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.27 10:19:00 -
[529]
Edited by: lecrotta on 27/04/2008 10:24:22
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
I had to reply because just wow, are you ever so blind.
1) He said the fleet was bubbled, you can be aligned all you want but it wont matter because you cant warp.
Im not blind, you did not HAVE to reply and i said you could be aligned in response cos you can warp out faster before you get bubbled.
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
2) How do you use a scanner to check for incoming dictors when there are 15 in your scan results every time, some on grid some off grid. Preventing a dictor from warping in and dropping a bubble is pretty much not feasable unless you want to keep warping your fleet out and never getting anything done.
You obviously have no idea how to use scanners properly in large fleet ops, get some training off ppl who know how.
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
3) Tell me which small support can tank pos guns easily, and pop a dictor fast enough. And anti dictor ships wont be able to pop any dictors in warp till they come out of warp. So if your enemy uses a covops they could easily get a 0km warpin on your bs fleet.
Who says the pos is gonna be shooting at all the small support? even if it is manned.. or have enough time to pop them all even if the gunners do shoot at them before the jammer goes down?..heres a hint they warp out as individuals as the pos targets them.
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
4) why would they have to cloak, they can simply just be aligned.
Aligned in space so you can probe them down and gank them or aligned in a pos so you can see them warp and tell your snipers to warp out?.
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
5)You cannot have caps in a cyno-jammed system unless you had them there before the cyno jammer went up, or logged off after you knocked down the cyno jammer on a previous attempt. So this point is irrelevent
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
6) Cant have caps, see cynojammer, cyno jammers prevent cynos. The only other way to get caps in is through a jump bridge, which requires sov
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
7) If you dont have a cap fleet in system you cant use it can you?
This thread was about multiple titans and there DDD being unkillable not them and the cyno jammers together.
Although with the DDD reduced to 150km a jammer take down is now very doable but still a risky and exciting/entertaining operation. Im sorry if you cannot turn on eve to easy mode but perhaps you should try another game, WOW perhaps cos you know if you die there you get to keep all your stuff.
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mama guru
Corp 1 Allstars
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.27 11:06:00 -
[530]
No time for goodbye he said
As he faded away
Don't put your life in someone's hands
Their bound to steal it away
Don't hide your mistakes
'Cause they'll find you, burn you
Then he said
If you want to get out alive
Run for your life
If you want to get out alive
Run for your life
...
Yes multiple titans are pretty much unbreakable, Especially when deffing a cyno jammer.
And sadly, the only way to remove the problems of multiple doomsdays is to remove doomsdays as a whole. Or give them game breaking requirements like sucking up all remaining cap or something.
All in all its really hard to fix.
EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
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KompleX
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.27 13:30:00 -
[531]
I personally havent experienced a DDD first hand, but if a change is needed, this too me sounds pretty good: How about if you gave the titans more slots to fit several capital guns, and then give the titans massive boosts to tracking and dmg from capital guns, so that if you got targeted and shot at by a titan, you were pretty much dead anyway. After all it IS a titan, and you shouldnt really be able to survive it if it shoots at you. But wiping out entire fleets with the push of a buttion sounds kinda dumb.
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Aequitas Veritas
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.27 13:52:00 -
[532]
If not being able to warp because youre bubbled then maybe its overpowered because of the silly overpowered dictorbubbles and not the DD itself.
That one or two ships can keep a 100 man fleet scrambled is actually the most overpowered thing in the game.
Game was more fun as well before when you needed support to scramble and not only snipers + 5 dictors. I loved our 50 vs 50 gangs when all the BS had scramblers fitted and went in close to duke it out. Man that was fun...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Salome Dicasi
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Posted - 2008.04.27 23:31:00 -
[533]
its part of the game, i'd get used to it
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Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.28 00:26:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
That one or two ships can keep a 100 man fleet scrambled is actually the most overpowered thing in the game.
I agree with this.
----
Norjia Blacksteel
CEO
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing |
Chomapuraku
Caldari
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.28 03:41:00 -
[535]
nothing like a doomsday thread to spur on these arguments...
i'm a big fan of changeing the doomsday device from a weapon that instantly ends fleet fights to one that simply hastens them. the fact that one single ship, with its availability beyond easy to the biggest players, can be stacked four times over and destroy every single subcap on the field with no hope of survival removes the role of the enemy's support fleet, especially considering the fact that you can warp out your own fleet in time with the arrival of the multiple titans on grid
as the goon was saying (RK just reset goons, before the ad-hominem comes this way), staying aligned is a great way to avoid being doomsdayed, provided you're not in an anchored bubble, a dictor bubble, or a hactor bubble, and luck is on your side such that when you hit warp, your lag is less than the lag of the titan pilot spamming his ddd button. in a big, laggy fleet battle, you have about as much chance of getting out in time as someone that's currently bubbled.
what do i suggest instead? turn the DDD into an OMGWTF gang link. one doomsday allowed per squad, and all squad members get some ZOMGDOOOOD kinda effect that allows them to... (wait for it...!) cut through the enemy fleet with twice the speed while requiring that they be able to control their ship during the fight. this way, the doomsday enhances the capabilities of friendly sub-caps without obsoleting the enemy sub-cap fleet. make a short-lasting effect that requires a cooldown, one doomsday effect applied to any set of players at a time, and for the sake of fun, the effects apply only to subcaps
make titans speed up the fight by amplifying the force of their support fleet, rather than just pushing the i-win button
Originally by: Matrixcvd
can the RL arguments just take a back seat, i dont care about horatio hornblower or what the battle of juttland was like.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.28 04:07:00 -
[536]
Learn to burn out of bubbles?
And your suggestion would just make titans sit at a pos all day, at least now they need to move outside of a pos to DD.
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Chomapuraku
Caldari
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.28 04:39:00 -
[537]
burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if
i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time
poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one.
MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.04.28 10:51:00 -
[538]
Edited by: lecrotta on 28/04/2008 10:53:54
Originally by: Chomapuraku
burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if
i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time
poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one.
MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts
So lag makes ppl unable to get out of a bubble or activate modules/mwd and get away from a DDD but in the next breath you say that the titan should be a big gang mod kinda ship that gives huge bonuses to the same lagged out ships that cannot activate mods in the first place?.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.28 11:05:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Chomapuraku
burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if
i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time
poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one.
MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts
Eve is never balanced on lag, or ships would have a lot more hitpoints.
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Chomapuraku
Caldari
Templar Republic
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.28 16:27:00 -
[540]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 28/04/2008 10:53:54
Originally by: Chomapuraku
burning out of a bubble only works when you're not lagged out in a giant fleet fight. and even if you can burn out of that bubble, telling your ship to warp and having the server receive you request to do so before the titan comes onto grid and spams the DDD button is still a big if
i've always thought that gang links should only work on the same grid as the gang-booster. otherwise, you can just sit at a pos and boost your gang remotely. the new DDD would apply only to friendlies on-grid, and in the same squad (not the whole wing or fleet.) huge bonus to the capabilities of the support fleet, speeds up the fight, puts everyone at risk, and makes you have to fight for your victory, not just use broken game mechanics and having you and three friends push the i-win button at the same time
poke holes in the specifics i pointed out, but regardless, the design philosophy i'd employ for the titan is a ship that doesn't have an i-win button, extends the capabilities of its fleet, and makes the fight more fun for all involved, rather than the current system where you warp in, maybe load one or two frames after the grid, lose your ship in 1-2 successive doomsdays, then wake up in station after the third one.
MAKE THE TITAN MAKE FIGHTS MORE FUN FOR ALL INVOLVED. my idea of a good time is not a single ship that neutralizes the entire enemy fleet before they can fly in, get on some killmails, and have fun. we all get popped in battle, it would just be nice if there wasn't a ship that ends the fight before it starts
So lag makes ppl unable to get out of a bubble or activate modules/mwd and get away from a DDD but in the next breath you say that the titan should be a big gang mod kinda ship that gives huge bonuses to the same lagged out ships that cannot activate mods in the first place?.
if the doomsday were a super gang-link, its use wouldn't be a trump card in a lagged-out fight. if it gave bonuses to the lagged-out ships, those ships would make use of the bonuses conferred upon them as soon as they could get control of their ships and activate mods. the point is, this kind of system would be useful without lag making it overpowered or useless. for instance, make the effect last a couple of minutes, with a cooldown time x multiples of that, so that most of those under its influence would be able to fight while bonussed regardless of the lag
it's true that eve isn't balanced around lag, but would it really hurt that much to tweak the game mechanics to reduce its influence?
Originally by: Matrixcvd
can the RL arguments just take a back seat, i dont care about horatio hornblower or what the battle of juttland was like.
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