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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.02 10:50:00 -
[121]
Ok guys and girls,
Please remain respectful to each other when replying. Obviously this is an issue that many people have opinions on and we would like to see the discussion flourish.
Try at all times to avoid blatant trolling and flame bait
Navigator, Community Representative EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang
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Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.02 10:55:00 -
[122]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Ok guys and girls,
Please remain respectful to each other when replying. Obviously this is an issue that many people have opinions on and we would like to see the discussion flourish.
Try at all times to avoid blatant trolling and flame bait
It can be hard to resist when you post in detail exactly how to avoid said ganking but then someone comes along and posts an inane eft fit counter-argument they pulled out their arse. But noted anyways.
Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2008.04.02 11:10:00 -
[123]
Originally by: SCSPOOK Its pretty simple once you get past the enormous challenge of super skilled pilots with zillions of ISK at the disposal in there.
Gate Campers.
Get rid of them. As long as i am at risk of being gangbanged by Gate Campers, there really is no sensible reason for venturing into that part of space. Its not a fight no matter how campers may put it.
Yes we can recce yada yada yada. But low skilled, short time Empire pilots want what many of you have. Lots of skills, weapons, ISK and ships to throw away. Pointless deaths at Gate camps, doesnt a rich Eve pilot make.
Force an exclusion zone. Then maybe ill bother.
Funny thing is how I travel all time between empire and VERY deep 0.0 passing troug a few different low sec entrances. NEver found a LOW sec gate camp on the last 12 months.
Have really no idea what people complain about on low sec. No bubbles so very low activity of real camps. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Zeba
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Posted - 2008.04.02 11:36:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Funny thing is how I travel all time between empire and VERY deep 0.0 passing troug a few different low sec entrances. NEver found a LOW sec gate camp on the last 12 months.
Have really no idea what people complain about on low sec. No bubbles so very low activity of real camps.
Same here. Way back in my earlier days before the drone regions wtfpwnd high end prices I used to take 2 ospreys and eventually 3 retreivers out to mine Hemorphite and refine it at the station in the same system. I would then load up the billions of isk of zyd into a tanked/stabbed mammoth and use another account in a shuttle to scout a route to the best buy orders. I lost a coule of insured ospreys and retrievers to crafty pirates but Never lost a ship to a camp. Ever. I'll also note that camps were very rare just as they are now though I don't mine in low sec anymore I just cruise around looking for people to annoy with 4 recons.
Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.02 13:46:00 -
[125]
These threads are all the same.
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.04.02 16:14:00 -
[126]
Honestly you guys don't understand and say things you don't have a clue about. There isn't gatecamps at every gate. In fact the regular choke points are for the most part pirates fighting the carebears that are camping it hello FIX. Hehe here's a challenge grab a miner and jetcan. The next guy that flips your can look up his Battleclinic stats and see if he's lost a mining ship. You'd be very surpise what in-game knowledge and e-research does. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Lyer
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Posted - 2008.04.02 17:21:00 -
[127]
I dont want to get into the ethics of gate camping and nobody will agree with each other as both parties have gains and loss attached to the situation.
Prehaps a compromise could be based on this idea. Not sure if it has been thrown around before, I'm sure it prob has.
Based on the warp in distances to a gate 100km - 0km, a ship could be adversly effected depending on its proximity to the gate. Ths closer it was the more damage it would recieve. I would also suggest the damage HP effect structure directly rather than any tank that is in place. No pilot likes to see the stucture bar go down :) The damage could be explained in a RP style in that the gates and their disstortion effect local space in such a way that shielding/Tanking cannot protect a ship.
Ok, what does this do.
Well it just gives the jump in pilot more of a chance/time to use whatever attributes they have set up on their ship. There's more time to plan the escape route, The MWD kicks in for longer, your tank might now allow you to get back to the gate. Whether they get locked will be based on the campers skills, timing and formation around the gate as the group will have to be spread out to much greater ranges. Kills will have to be much more skill based as you wont be able to hang out on the gate waiting. You would have to plan the ambush and time your arrival at a gate in order to drop that bubble in 0.0, or activate those webs/scams in low sec. successfuly.
So really this gives the jumper more options and more protection to a degree and it makes sure the campers don't just blob a gate but have to use skill to achieve a kill,
The idea is very rough and obviously needs to be refined by better people than me.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.02 18:18:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset The ease and rapidity with which those piebears supporting the gank all gate camp situation at the hisec boundary descend into infantile disparagement is truely astonishing. Are some of you mistaking this for an In Character section of the forum?
You participate in "gank all gatecamp" situations at the lowsec/0.0 boundry.
6 of your last 20 kills were noobships.
I assumed this was the "in character" section of the forum and your were roleplaying a hypocritical troll
You have my permission to leave the thread.
SKUNK
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heheheh
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.04.02 18:20:00 -
[129]
Strange it cant be only me that gets through most gatecamps on a regular basis.
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Corstaad
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.02 18:25:00 -
[130]
Its just you some freakish thing happens with your account I call hacks or it must of been FIX gatecamps.
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Neutrino Sunset
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:15:00 -
[131]
Originally by: "Cpt Branko" ...and your idea of low-sec as 'transition area' is rubbish as well.
The idea of having a transition area of 'lowsec with safer gates and stations' needn't have any impact of lowsec at all, it could be just as easily be achieved by expanding lowsec somewhat and applying the transition zone to 0.5.
So presumably you be opposed to this 'lowsec with safer gates and stations' existing at what is currently 0.5 and 0.4, or even 0.6 and 0.5. Seems a bit strange for you to have been so fierce in your defense of the lowsec way of life to now be just as fiercely against turning a little bit of hightsec into something more akin to lowsec. Not that it makes any difference to me, I just thought it might be nice for the new players who might like to pew pew a bit, but who don't relish the prospect of session changing straight into a clone vat, but I suppose the piebears must have their fun.
Originally by: "Le Skunk"
You participate in "gank all gatecamp" situations at the lowsec/0.0 boundry.
6 of your last 20 kills were noobships.
I assumed this was the "in character" section of the forum and your were roleplaying a hypocritical troll
You have my permission to leave the thread.
SKUNK
The situation in 0.0 is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. But you've obviously got some fairly bizarre ideas that you would like to propose related to changes in the way 0.0 works, so if you want to make a thread about that you will find that I'm quite able to discuss it with you rationally and courteously.
As for the rest of your drivell, I have better things to do than to dignify that with a response, you're simply not worth the effort.
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Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:29:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/04/2008 20:29:41
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Originally by: "Cpt Branko" ...and your idea of low-sec as 'transition area' is rubbish as well.
The idea of having a transition area of 'lowsec with safer gates and stations' needn't have any impact of lowsec at all, it could be just as easily be achieved by expanding lowsec somewhat and applying the transition zone to 0.5.
So presumably you be opposed to this 'lowsec with safer gates and stations' existing at what is currently 0.5 and 0.4, or even 0.6 and 0.5.
Fine in that case. Naturally, you'd see antipirates of all sorts blobbing/camping said gates because your friends cannot assist you when you get shot at which would make it ideal for them, but it could be fun to roll in frigs there and pew-pew.
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Not that it makes any difference to me, I just thought it might be nice for the new players who might like to pew pew a bit, but who don't relish the prospect of session changing straight into a clone vat
Well, new players who want to try out pew-pew for a bit will be mostly in frigs/cruisers which evade/bust through/burn back quite easily.
I mean... if pirates can bust through pirate camps, then non-pirates quite certainly have the same mechanics as pirates (except that non-pirates cannot be scrambled by inties without practically suiciding them and get gate-gun assistance which can be very important in dettering any small and fast locking ships from engaging).
So it's not *really* necessary.
But, please, expand low-sec (even a vanilla sort of it), fine by me. Present low-sec needs to stay as it is.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kash Ka
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:56:00 -
[133]
What are u on about, iv actually found low sec to be pretty profitable when camping. Iv had multiple occasions where i cassually camp a system and very easy and good loot kills jump in. You just have to know where to camp. ---------=================--------- Forgiveness is between you and god, im just here to arrange the meeting. |
Jitabug
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2008.04.02 21:38:00 -
[134]
Low-sec is great.
What sucks are the pirates who feel compelled to be abusive to 3 month old players who are trying to learn to PVP.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.03 00:32:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
The situation in 0.0 is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. But you've obviously got some fairly bizarre ideas that you would like to propose related to changes in the way 0.0 works, so if you want to make a thread about that you will find that I'm quite able to discuss it with you rationally and courteously.
As for the rest of your drivell, I have better things to do than to dignify that with a response, you're simply not worth the effort.
I dont think it is. When you come out with comments like:
Quote: My view is that it seems as if lowsec needs to fulfill the duel role of introducing new poorly skilled and poorly equiped players to PvP while also catering to those pirates who aren't yet ready to brave the dangers of 0.0.
You show your utter incomprehension of what low sec is. A quick look at your killboard shows you sit as an alliance drone camping a low sec 0.0 jump off point with 15 pilots.
Youve killed 5 noob ships in your last 20 kills.
Youve chosen the very easy route to get kills by going to 0.0 This is all well and good for you. But please dont stick your beak into low sec - a place you know nothing about - where catching a target is an artform.
Do not envy our individuality - our wicked streak - our self reliance, our sense of adventure.
Continue on your way, and pat yourself heartly on the back that you 'made it' out to 0.0 where the bigger boys play.
Revel in your role as faceless minion in a 1000 man alliance.
But shush now.
SKUNK
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Corstaad
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.03 01:32:00 -
[136]
Wasn't just going to throw this out there but when FIX was losing there territory in there epic fight for 0.0. Hunters Agency was abusing the poor unskilled pod pilots on the Osuggar gate in amamake. Only those mean pirates to defend against the honorable anti-pirates. I remeber this because amamake spam for those few nights was filled with honorable FIX comments.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.04.03 01:44:00 -
[137]
Originally by: SCSPOOK Force an exclusion zone. Then maybe ill bother.
You're a funny guy. So make EVE no risk in low-security where it's meant to be a possible danger to you?
You so crazy.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Belial Tempter
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Posted - 2008.04.03 07:54:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Besides, you think scouts don't work and give out *****pot theories (lol@cloaking gatecamps). That *really* says it all.
Woa, woah....woah.
You don't think there are cloaking gatecamps??
I beg to differ, Sir.
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Liu Hideharo
Gorniczo Hutnicza Orkiestra Deta
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Posted - 2008.04.03 10:53:00 -
[139]
why 0.0/low sec is more dungerous than high sec?
The Citadel got most ships destroed in last 24h than all other regions. Hell they are 0.0 regions with no ships destroed even. intresting isnt it? Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
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SCSPOOK
16th Interspacial Dynasty
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Posted - 2008.04.03 11:15:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Liu Hideharo why 0.0/low sec is more dungerous than high sec?
The Citadel got most ships destroed in last 24h than all other regions. Hell they are 0.0 regions with no ships destroed even. intresting isnt it? Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
Just the gates friend. Not the system. Remove the dobermans from the gates so visitors can get in.
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Gamesguy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.03 11:18:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Liu Hideharo why 0.0/low sec is more dungerous than high sec?
The Citadel got most ships destroed in last 24h than all other regions. Hell they are 0.0 regions with no ships destroed even. intresting isnt it? Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
Self destructing ibis and shuttles dont count.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.03 11:41:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/04/2008 11:41:28
Originally by: Liu Hideharo
Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
Ha ha.
I'm probably one of the many people responsible for putting The Citadel region to such a high number of ships destroyed.
However, we only get a fairly small proportion of traffic. Maybe 10-20% when we're sitting on a gate, and we're not sitting on a gate non-stop either (BCs, particularly Hurricanes, tank quite badly so you preety much need to kill/scoop/get out and wait for sentry aggro to clear unless something particularly juicy is coming through).
The thing with The Citadel region is that it's quite populated and sees quite a bit of traffic.
0.0 camps are much more efficent at catching traffic and you can sit on them non-stop, but 0.0 has much less players per system.
Gatecamping is preety much the only way to get the haulers/people carrying stuff through. They're not going to, like, go to a belt carrying a ton of stuff.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.04.03 12:32:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Le Skunk
You have Interdictor bubbles(so no skill or effort involved in scramming) - Insta lock huggins/intys (so no effort involved in webbing) and mobile bubbles (so you even have the people warping TO the gate sucked right in front of you.
Then you blob them
You dont have to bother with remote repping. You dont have to bother with remote senosr boosting. Cloaking ships are killable. Fast warp frigates are killable.
You dont have sentry guns to contend with so can fit what you like. You can use ships which are off limit to low sec pirates dud to sentry fire.
0.0 gate camping, such as you practice, requires absolutly no skill at all. Easy tackle, easy web, easy kill, and the pod cant go anywhere.
Compared to the team work and disadvantageous conditions the pirate works in - you may as well be playing pac man.
You have it so easy out in 0.0, it utterly beggers belief, that you even DARE to comment on low sec mechanics.
Low sec is fine, leave it alone. The people who live there are generally the more independant pilots in the game - with a welcome degree of seperation from their mindless braindead brothers out in 0.0 - with their lag fests, node crashes, and bloated sense of self worth.
Keep your beak out and comment on what you know. Post a thread asking for webbing bubbles then you wont even have to web your target before you squash it.
SKUNK
QFT
I would like to add that people camping 0.0 entries don't have to live with the consequences of being an outlaw either.
0.0 is for lag-warfare and piracy in easy mode.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.04.03 13:15:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
My view is that it seems as if lowsec needs to fulfill the duel role of introducing new poorly skilled and poorly equiped players to PvP while also catering to those pirates who aren't yet ready to brave the dangers of 0.0. And that this could be fairly easily achieved by having a progressive reduction of gate and station defenses going from 0.4 and 0.3 where the defenses are so powerful that they preclude almost any kind of gate or station camping whatsoever, to 0.2 and lower where the situation is similar to what it is today where pirates can camp the gates with impunity and gank every single thing that comes through.
This approach should be easily achievable with the game mechanics that already exist, and would seem to provide arenas for all the playstyles that need to be accomodated. Furthermore the same effect could either be achieved by creating this 'lowsec with safe gates and stations' in existing lowsec by applying it to 0.4 and 0.3, or if you really want to appease the 'Eve is a cold and harsh world crowd' you could instead expand lowsec to include 0.5 sec space and lower, and apply this 'lowsec with safe gates and stations' model to 0.5 and 0.4. That way the pirates lose 1 sec level space in which they can gate camp with impunity (0.4), while the carebears lose 1 sec level of space to lowsec (0.5).
There are two ways this could happen:
1. .4 sentries get boosted in damage to a point that no single ship can tank it 2. .4 sentries get boosted to omgwtfconcordokken damage
If the first option is what you want, you do nothing but make us camp with more pilots and larger ships. A bad situation for everyone.
If you chose the second option you make these systems suicide for an outlaw. Funny thing about being -5.0 is that anyone can shoot at you without getting flagged, and if the person shooting you is not an outlaw as well then no one would be able to join you in the fight since if they attack your assailant illegaly or even just remote rep you they get gate gun BBQ'd. You are all alone agianst whatever backup your attacker might call in; and this backup could include hot-dropping a carrier with NO RISK for the carrier pilot, since no one can attack him without getting BBQd by those gate guns. Basicly this would make combat on a station or gate suicidal for any outlaw, regardless of if the outlaw engaged criminaly or not.
So, which do you want? LARGER low sec gate camps, or remove outlaws from .4 space?
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2008.04.03 13:32:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Liu Hideharo why 0.0/low sec is more dungerous than high sec?
The Citadel got most ships destroed in last 24h than all other regions. Hell they are 0.0 regions with no ships destroed even. intresting isnt it? Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
Ship loss relative to population density...
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:02:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: SCSPOOK Its pretty simple once you get past the enormous challenge of super skilled pilots with zillions of ISK at the disposal in there.
Gate Campers.
Get rid of them. As long as i am at risk of being gangbanged by Gate Campers, there really is no sensible reason for venturing into that part of space. Its not a fight no matter how campers may put it.
Yes we can recce yada yada yada. But low skilled, short time Empire pilots want what many of you have. Lots of skills, weapons, ISK and ships to throw away. Pointless deaths at Gate camps, doesnt a rich Eve pilot make.
Force an exclusion zone. Then maybe ill bother.
Funny thing is how I travel all time between empire and VERY deep 0.0 passing troug a few different low sec entrances. NEver found a LOW sec gate camp on the last 12 months.
Have really no idea what people complain about on low sec. No bubbles so very low activity of real camps.
I have to agree with this. I think a lot of players on this forum either exaggerate or believe in some urban legend that every low sec gate is camped. Truth is, it is rare that you will find a real gate camp in low sec unless you go to Ammake or a system like that. In fact, most low sec systems are pretty empty unless they have a mission hub in them. You may still get shot at occasionally but most times, you can escape because it is usually only a couple of guys or a soloer camping a gate with his alt.
Entry points into 0.0 on the other hand, are a whole different story.
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Hannobaal
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:07:00 -
[147]
Originally by: SCSPOOK
Originally by: Liu Hideharo why 0.0/low sec is more dungerous than high sec?
The Citadel got most ships destroed in last 24h than all other regions. Hell they are 0.0 regions with no ships destroed even. intresting isnt it? Amazing that ppl never go to low/0.0 and then make gfunny statements make low sec more secure.
Just the gates friend. Not the system. Remove the dobermans from the gates so visitors can get in.
What makes you think you will have any chance to survive in any of the low-sec systems that tend to get camped on the gates, and why do you have to specifically go to those tiny few systems intead of the vast multitude of low-sec systems out there that never see any gate camps whatsoever?
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Commander 598
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:08:00 -
[148]
I have personally found that lowsec gate camps are rather discouraging to newb players and is maybe one of the largest reasons for the lack of lowsec traffic. It's the main reason I gave up running minerals through multiple lowsec systems and moved on to ratting out of a BS in 0.0.
The first time I was ever killed in lowsec I was flying a Kestrel in a belt when someone else suddenly appeared, scrambled me, and killed me with what was possibly just a frigate. (I don't remember exactly) That was substantially less discouraging than jumping into a multi-person BS gate camp.
This means that I think lowsec gatecamps should go the way of the dodo but that's hardly a death sentence for pirates. Also, bubbles should definitely be anchorable in lowsec.
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Hannobaal
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:16:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
I would like to add that people camping 0.0 entries don't have to live with the consequences of being an outlaw either.
That would probably be because killing things in 0.0 doesn't mean you're an outlaw in the first place.
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Piratejoe
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Posted - 2008.04.03 14:38:00 -
[150]
The main problem with piracy and lowsec in general is CCP's gate system were players that wish too enter a new game play area must pass thru this one choke point.
Now I dont fault the Pirates here because thier whole point of being is too find rich targets to murder or pillage. They know all their marks are going too enter at this one point so they of course go their, no need too hunt all the belts or camp stations or set up warp bubbles in between gates.
Now in Empire you have concord or empire too protect you when you fly thru these gates/chokepoints so players have no problem traveling around Highsec. In Highsec if a pirate wants too kill you they have too hunt the belts or wait for the right moment too murder you. They cannot camp High Sec gates so theirs no problems their and concord will protect them in the belts or deadspace (if they survive long enough)
In 0.0 you have player fleets that can break gate camps/chokepoints or help you get thru them, and when your mining or flying too a station player fleets may be their too back you up and protect you.
In Lowsec .1-.4 your system is broken, since their no way for players too claim these area's officialy and concord is no help here. Your all alone with no back up so when you pass thru these play area's/systems chokepoint the pirates are waiting thier were they know you must pass thru.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Highsec. even though the ores not great you can mine (Or mission) unmolested for long periods of time with some sense of security. You may lose some ships sometimes but the risk vs reward is worth it.
In 0.0 space the Ores and Rats are the best in the game and you have a Player version of concord or empire fleets too protect you. You will lose lots of ships but the rewards usually outweigh your losses.
In lowsec theirs no protection, the Ores are middle of the road, you can be killed doing missions, you must pass thru gates that can be camped and you have no empire or player fleets too back you up. Why go thier? You will usually lose more then its worth too gain mining and you cant do missions their either. Its just not worth it your systems broke as thiers no point in even having lowsec space the way its currently set up.
You can make Isk in high sec You can make Isk in 0.0 You will lose isk in low sec
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