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Author	Topic
Saori Rei	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:22:00 - [151] Quote: But people become carnivores because it's a sense of accomplishment, quite frankly meat tastes better. 100k in extortion money tastes better than 100 mil from rats, because you didnt get it from an NPC you got it from a living thinking breathing being. It's human interaction. Personally I try to get all my profit from human beings, I don't LIKE interacting with NPC's but sometimes I am forced to because it's easy money. I mean lets face it, you see a 1.8 mil rat you not gonna eat that? But again, taking 100k off another player feels 100x better than killing that 1.8 mil rat. Its all part of the game I know, but that really does sound like you're well on the road to becoming a griefer... to actually take -joy- from taking things from others....
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:53:00 - [152] Originally by: Cipher7 Carebears are like cows. They graze, eat grass, etc get nice and fat. Carebears are productive people, who work for what they earn, you mean. Originally by: Cipher7 But when it comes time to butcher that cow, people are doing it primarily for the meat not to make the cow suffer. Your statements further down seem to say something else, I'll get to this. Quote: You could say "Well why dont you leave the cow alone and become a vegetarian" Because meat tastes better. NPC, agent , asteroids, etc = Grass Other players = Meat The vast majority of Eve are vegetarians, including most 0.0 alliances, they make almost all of their money from PvE. Some are Omnivores, they try to make income from other players, but still rely primarily on the environment to support them, ie carebear alts etc. A very small percentage are actually %100 carnivores, meaning they get %100 of their income from other players, like jacking cans, stealing wrecks, extorting other players, running scams and so forth. The things you listed, I wouldn't call that carnivore, I would call that parasite. A pest that hides inside the host, which we can do without perfectly well. Carnivores would be lowsec/0.0 PVPers, people that actively hunt miners and mission runners blah blah. They do not hide behind the host, they do not have CONCORD defending them, they provide their own security and they hunt for their own 'meat'. Parasites are those cowards you decribe, those that hide and rely on CONCORD to protect them, and then steal other people's food, and they get to do that, because unlike real life, there is no drug to flush the parasite out of the host (no proper game mechanics to hunt down criminals in highsec). Originally by: Cipher7 See in a game like WoW it is impossible to be a Carnivore. In a game like WoW it's impossible to be anything beyond yet another predefined specialized (class) ant clone of someone else. Originally by: Cipher7 You kill someone they drop no loot. If you go in Battlegrounds and get "honor points" you can get equipment from the PvP shop, but again thats NPC's giving you stuff, not other PLAYERS. Ah, but if you say that, to me it seems that you want to hurt other players (taking away THEIR stuff so they won't have it anymore), and do not care too much about the material gain for PVP. Originally by: Cipher7 The beauty of Eve and what sets it apart is that here you can actually BE a carnivore. You can make your living %100 from other players, never interacting with an agent or a rat or an inanimate object like an asteroid. Being a carnivore is HARD, it is MUCH easier to be a Herbivore, it is MUCH easier to get all your income by gathering from NPC's or whatnot. Yeah sure, canflipping, lofty'ing, scamming, suicide ganking and stealing wrecks REALLY is hard! Originally by: Cipher7 But people become carnivores because it's a sense of accomplishment, quite frankly meat tastes better. The above really is an accomplishment Originally by: Cipher7 100k in extortion money tastes better than 100 mil from rats, because you didnt get it from an NPC you got it from a living thinking breathing being. It's human interaction. Personally I try to get all my profit from human beings, I don't LIKE interacting with NPC's but sometimes I am forced to because it's easy money. I mean lets face it, you see a 1.8 mil rat you not gonna eat that? But again, taking 100k off another player feels 100x better than killing that 1.8 mil rat. Once again, I think you're only after it because you're after the thrill you get that you just hurt and upset another being, the power you have over someone else to make them miserable. Where's the fun in punching a bag? Why do boxing matches as you get your prize from some outsider (NPC)? You can beat up someone on the street, eh? For someone that craves for human interaction, I find it strange that you seem to lack empathy towards others and do not sympathize with their loss. --- Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP! Visit our Campaign Website
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:50:00 - [153] Originally by: Saori Rei Quote: But people become carnivores because it's a sense of accomplishment, quite frankly meat tastes better. 100k in extortion money tastes better than 100 mil from rats, because you didnt get it from an NPC you got it from a living thinking breathing being. It's human interaction. Personally I try to get all my profit from human beings, I don't LIKE interacting with NPC's but sometimes I am forced to because it's easy money. I mean lets face it, you see a 1.8 mil rat you not gonna eat that? But again, taking 100k off another player feels 100x better than killing that 1.8 mil rat. Its all part of the game I know, but that really does sound like you're well on the road to becoming a griefer... to actually take -joy- from taking things from others.... I look at it as a Zen thing really. Who are you to be upset if someone drinks from your little stream? Do you think no one profits from me? Do you think no one drinks from my stream? First of all this is play not work. You should do what you enjoy, whatever gives you meaning and satisfaction. Secondly out of 100 cans that you mine, how many get nicked? 1? So let me get this straight. You have mineral resources just floating around waiting to be harvested, theres no tax or rent for harvesting those resources, and you're pointing to the %1 profit loss as the source of your misery. You can't take joy in the other %99 you have to point to the %1 you lost? Isn't that a little myopic? I'll ask you again, and this goes to Anke too, who are you that no one should drink from your stream? What do you think you're special? That nobody's supposed to feed off you? Think again sunshine. It's a circle of life, the sooner you all realize that, the sooner you'll get over your nerd rage.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:50:00 - [154] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lubomir Penev Or even better, non warring fleet completely locked to people at war. So it's reasonable to go afk in highsec Heh... almost bit on that troll. Nice. I actually mean it. Don't get me wrong I make a living killing people in highsec but I take the pain to wardec them or to get them to somehow aggro first (I'm one of those dirty mission thiefs). I always found lofty antics really really lame. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:52:00 - [155] Originally by: Cipher7 Think again sunshine. It's a circle of life, the sooner you all realize that, the sooner you'll get over your nerd rage. Nice. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:54:00 - [156] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lubomir Penev Or even better, non warring fleet completely locked to people at war. So it's reasonable to go afk in highsec Heh... almost bit on that troll. Nice. I actually mean it. Don't get me wrong I make a living killing people in highsec but I take the pain to wardec them or to get them to somehow aggro first (I'm one of those dirty mission thiefs). I always found lofty antics really really lame. You seriously think that CCP should protect people who go AFK in expensive ships? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:07:00 - [157] Originally by: Cipher7 I look at it as a Zen thing really. Who are you to be upset if someone drinks from your little stream? What you and these griefers want though, is to take only the water out of my mouth, because they do not care about the water that much, they care about leaving me thirsty. And the analogy wouldn't even be a stream, it would be a well that has been built by someone else. Who are you to drink from or poison someone else's well, or to take the water out of someone's mouth? --- Take Care is the CSM party for the free and independant players! Contact us and let us relay your ideas to CCP! Visit our Campaign Website
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:36:00 - [158] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lubomir Penev Or even better, non warring fleet completely locked to people at war. So it's reasonable to go afk in highsec Heh... almost bit on that troll. Nice. I actually mean it. Don't get me wrong I make a living killing people in highsec but I take the pain to wardec them or to get them to somehow aggro first (I'm one of those dirty mission thiefs). I always found lofty antics really really lame. You seriously think that CCP should protect people who go AFK in expensive ships? No. I want fleet locked out to warring people better than a warning when one join so you can take a bio-break between two rooms of a mission. You already accepted the risk of suicide gank the moment you undocked... I'm quite ok with suicide gank, risk/reward of them IMHO balanced or close which is not at all the case of the lofty scam, for which the only protection is not ganging with anyone at all. I think it hurts the socializing aspects of the game, as for example a vet taking a noob tagging along in a mission to help him build his wallet. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP!
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:41:00 - [159] Edited by: Cipher7 on 04/04/2008 15:41:20 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Cipher7 I look at it as a Zen thing really. Who are you to be upset if someone drinks from your little stream? What you and these griefers want though, is to take only the water out of my mouth, because they do not care about the water that much, they care about leaving me thirsty. And the analogy wouldn't even be a stream, it would be a well that has been built by someone else. Who are you to drink from or poison someone else's well, or to take the water out of someone's mouth? Oh shush I dont care about the water in your mouth. Crime is a PROFESSION just like Mining or Manufacturing or anything else. Why do people become criminals, is it for money? If they wanted money they would become a Banker or a Stock Broker. People do crime primarily because it's flashy, it feeds the ego, it's like being another Al Capone or John Gotti. These are not dumb people, they're not in it to make you suffer, they're in it because it's an exciting lifestyle of fast cars, beautiful women, drugs and terrified shop owners. It's a fantasy life, just like being a space miner or being an industrial magnate or a trading tycoon, it makes you feel like Gordon Gecko from the movie "Wall Street." Some people dream of being Gordon Gecko, and some people dream of being Billy the Kid, and some people dream of being Irwin Rommel and commanding their alliance army to victory. It's all a fantasy. But no matter what you do, you ARE gonna be stepping on somebody's toes, when you put up that sell order for 1 penny less than the next guy, or you undercut the next ship builder, somebody is gonna login and have a bad day because of your actions, you cost him money, now he has to spend 100isk to modify his order, he has to drop his own price and lose money on his products. You talk about Crime as the big evil in the world, what about when a business manager takes over a factory and starts laying off thousands of workers, families lose their homes, people suffer, they get ulcers and can't pay their bills. So who's worse the factory owner or the guy that mugs you on the subway and takes $100 out of your purse. The mugger's a parasite but the factory owners a fine upstanding member of society and you call him "Sir" Somebody undercuts you on the market and costs you millions, thats no big deal, but if I ask you what your worst experience was, its the guy who stole half a can of veld from you 6 months ago. Like I said people are myopic, they see everything through their own microscope, they don't see the big picture. You get screwed on the market by Gordon Gecko its no big deal, but Al Capone extorts your corp suddenly it's time to start calling names like "griefer" and "sociopath."
Sakura Nihil	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:10:00 - [160] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah There is no way to prevent these things from happening (besides never talking to and never flying with another person - ever), and once again, there aren't any consequences for these little brats that commit these crimes. Deal with it. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler

Ankhesentapemkah Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:32:00 - [161] Originally by: Cipher7 Why do people become criminals, is it for money? Because they lack proper morals, so either a birth defect or bad upbringing. Originally by: Cipher7 If they wanted money they would become a Banker or a Stock Broker. People do crime primarily because it's flashy, it feeds the ego, it's like being another Al Capone or John Gotti. These are not dumb people, they're not in it to make you suffer, they're in it because it's an exciting lifestyle of fast cars, beautiful women, drugs and terrified shop owners. It's a fantasy life, just like being a space miner or being an industrial magnate or a trading tycoon, it makes you feel like Gordon Gecko from the movie "Wall Street." Some people dream of being Gordon Gecko, and some people dream of being Billy the Kid, and some people dream of being Irwin Rommel and commanding their alliance army to victory. It's all a fantasy. All good and well, but if you're causing hundreds of millions of damage on other players just to stroke your ego, then something is wrong. Lack of empathy for your fellow man. Originally by: Cipher7 But no matter what you do, you ARE gonna be stepping on somebody's toes, when you put up that sell order for 1 penny less than the next guy, or you undercut the next ship builder, somebody is gonna login and have a bad day because of your actions, you cost him money, now he has to spend 100isk to modify his order, he has to drop his own price and lose money on his products. You talk about Crime as the big evil in the world, what about when a business manager takes over a factory and starts laying off thousands of workers, families lose their homes, people suffer, they get ulcers and can't pay their bills. So who's worse the factory owner or the guy that mugs you on the subway and takes $100 out of your purse. The mugger's a parasite but the factory owners a fine upstanding member of society and you call him "Sir" Uhhh no. I despise most CEOs and managers and hedgefunds and politicians and blah blah, because they're exactly the same. They also lack morals and empathy, and their actions negatively impact huge amounts of people, because they earn their money at the expense of others while contributing nothing. Originally by: Cipher7 Somebody undercuts you on the market and costs you millions, thats no big deal, but if I ask you what your worst experience was, its the guy who stole half a can of veld from you 6 months ago. Like I said people are myopic, they see everything through their own microscope, they don't see the big picture. Something for you to say, you do not even seem to take the other in consideration when you shoot at his ship/rob his can/etc. Originally by: Cipher7 You get screwed on the market by Gordon Gecko its no big deal, but Al Capone extorts your corp suddenly it's time to start calling names like "griefer" and "sociopath." Because it usually isn't game breaking if someone undercuts your prices, you can go elsewhere or lower your price too. You can undertake action against it. Hardly the case 150 griefer corp wardecs your 20 man corp and camps the stations you're in. Originally by: Sakura Nihil Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah There is no way to prevent these things from happening (besides never talking to and never flying with another person - ever), and once again, there aren't any consequences for these little brats that commit these crimes. Deal with it. Run for CSM and suggest some mechanics to let players DO something about it. Carebears can adapt in myserious ways. --- Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. I invite you to take a look at the campaign website for issues and further information. Visit our Campaign Website
N'irrti Reach Fuileach	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:45:00 - [162] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah stuff pure comedy gold
Corduroy Rab Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:59:00 - [163] Originally by: Saori Rei Quote: But people become carnivores because it's a sense of accomplishment, quite frankly meat tastes better. 100k in extortion money tastes better than 100 mil from rats, because you didnt get it from an NPC you got it from a living thinking breathing being. It's human interaction. Personally I try to get all my profit from human beings, I don't LIKE interacting with NPC's but sometimes I am forced to because it's easy money. I mean lets face it, you see a 1.8 mil rat you not gonna eat that? But again, taking 100k off another player feels 100x better than killing that 1.8 mil rat. Its all part of the game I know, but that really does sound like you're well on the road to becoming a griefer... to actually take -joy- from taking things from others.... Should one not take joy in playing the game well for thier play style? By reverse is a mission runner that takes joy in performing a lvl4 well also on the road to becomming a griefer? If he were doing the same acts but not taking the loot or extortion money but was performing those acts against players just to diminish the other players play experience then I would say that is griefing.
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:00:00 - [164] Before i play a new game or MMO i always research in depth to see if the new product will statisfy before i commit any time to it. The lofty exploit/scam along with many other dangers inherient in EVE are well documented, its even talked about on the rookie channel, not knowing about such things are really user ignorance due to willfull neglect on thier part (to stupid to read the fk'n manual inc updates and appendicies). EVE states you are never safe (not even docked in a POS i assume too), it's the fundamental game mechanic around which everything hangs. Unlike other games the main AI in EVE is YOU, use it. ...... continues overleaf.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:03:00 - [165] Originally by: Corduroy Rab Originally by: Saori Rei Quote: But people become carnivores because it's a sense of accomplishment, quite frankly meat tastes better. 100k in extortion money tastes better than 100 mil from rats, because you didnt get it from an NPC you got it from a living thinking breathing being. It's human interaction. Personally I try to get all my profit from human beings, I don't LIKE interacting with NPC's but sometimes I am forced to because it's easy money. I mean lets face it, you see a 1.8 mil rat you not gonna eat that? But again, taking 100k off another player feels 100x better than killing that 1.8 mil rat. Its all part of the game I know, but that really does sound like you're well on the road to becoming a griefer... to actually take -joy- from taking things from others.... Should one not take joy in playing the game well for thier play style? By reverse is a mission runner that takes joy in performing a lvl4 well also on the road to becomming a griefer? If he were doing the same acts but not taking the loot or extortion money but was performing those acts against players just to diminish the other players play experience then I would say that is griefing. What about a player who takes satisfaction in stripping a belt of all the good ore before someone else can mine it? After all, I will make more ISK if I mine more veld then you, but I will make a lot more if you can't mine any at all. Is it OK to do that? Or is it only OK to do that if I don't enjoy it? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Barbelo Valentinian	Posted - 2008.04.04 19:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Gril McCool so you read the wiki which says eve is controversial and read the player guide which says eve is not for evertyone and decided to try for yourself.now you are finding everything you read to be true you want to wail like a baby crying for mama and stamp your feet telling people "how this game should be". you are just like political correct crowd who wants gta or such banned or think video games make people violent.you can not see the difference in eve just like other can not see the difference of a gta game. wow would be too "hardcore" for you baby cakes.buy a wii to have more fun. you knew what you were getting and now pay 15 euro to cry i knew what i was getting and pay 15 euro to blow up ships. i win. Don't be silly - where have I ever said EVE upsets me? EVE is a great game, I love it. I don't care whether it changes or not as I can adapt to whatever it is. My analysis is just from the point of view of what I think is the cause of the problems EVE has - e.g. too much childish griefing, not enough people venturing into low sec, not enough solo PvP, newbies unsubbing and being discouraged, etc., etc. None of these problems is game-breaking, but it's possible to discuss how things could be improved in various ways. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Ioci	Posted - 2008.04.04 19:48:00 - [167] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian Originally by: Gril McCool so you read the wiki which says eve is controversial and read the player guide which says eve is not for evertyone and decided to try for yourself.now you are finding everything you read to be true you want to wail like a baby crying for mama and stamp your feet telling people "how this game should be". you are just like political correct crowd who wants gta or such banned or think video games make people violent.you can not see the difference in eve just like other can not see the difference of a gta game. wow would be too "hardcore" for you baby cakes.buy a wii to have more fun. you knew what you were getting and now pay 15 euro to cry i knew what i was getting and pay 15 euro to blow up ships. i win. Don't be silly - where have I ever said EVE upsets me? EVE is a great game, I love it. I don't care whether it changes or not as I can adapt to whatever it is. My analysis is just from the point of view of what I think is the cause of the problems EVE has - e.g. too much childish griefing, not enough people venturing into low sec, not enough solo PvP, newbies unsubbing and being discouraged, etc., etc. None of these problems is game-breaking, but it's possible to discuss how things could be improved in various ways. Sorry, Barbelo. You are a radical and a fanatic and a carebear and a noob and a million other things. You want to nerf Eve and make it WoW in space and should be shot and ****ed on. Slaughter on sight, mindless 'PvP' is the Eve motto. If you buy the slop thrown around on the boards that is. You will get tired of white paper explanations for every thing you say and just comment half ass like most of us soon enough.
Barbelo Valentinian Liberty Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.04 19:57:00 - [168] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian A load of personal opinion unsupported by hard facts, completely ignoring the post I just made OK, you're not discussing with me, you're just repeating yourself at me. Yeah, well it's not as if there's been much in the way of on-point responsiveness or hard facts from you - nor has there been any necessity for hard facts in this discussion, as we've merely been outlining general issues. At least that's what I've been doing - it seems you've been arguing with your usual imaginary inner forum whiner. Quote: So in conclusion let me I'm sorry that EvE isn't the game that you hoped it would be or thought it should be, and that you've discovered that there are jerks playing it as well as nice people. No need to be sorry - as I said to someone above, this has never been about me personally. EVE is pretty much as I expected it - a great but flawed game. Most great games have flaws, it's no big deal. And those flaws can be discussed. Quote: That's too bad. It is what it is, it's successful in it's niche, and those of us who enjoy it appreciate it for the freedoms we're granted within it, even if those freedoms empower the jerks as well as the good guys. That's a price we're willing to pay. So you do admit that the mechanics as they stand do empower jerks as well as good guys (I'd rather say "serious players") - so what the feck have you been arguing with me about? Sure, it's a price many people are willing to pay to play EVE, I'm quite happy to pay it too. But if you think CCP doesn't believe the jerks are a problem, and wouldn't like more people to susbcribe to EVE, and wouldn't like to solve whatever problems EVE has that discourage newbies (while at the same time preserving USP of open PvP, and the opportunity for serious players to scam, gank, etc.), then you're not thinking straight. Quote: Deal with it as it is, or quit and go look for something better. Your choice. Hey, as I said, personally I'm quite happy with the game. Did you think otherwise? Quote: Fly safe. And the same to you ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Barbelo Valentinian Liberty Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.04 20:01:00 - [169] Originally by: Ioci Sorry, Barbelo. You are a radical and a fanatic and a carebear and a noob and a million other things. You want to nerf Eve and make it WoW in space and should be shot and ***ed on. Slaughter on sight, mindless 'PvP' is the Eve motto. If you buy the slop thrown around on the boards that is. You will get tired of white paper explanations for every thing you say and just comment half ass like most of us soon enough. Never! I am a philosopher and an explorer, and I am eternally* capable of boring people to tears with walls of text ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
1717	Posted - 2008.04.04 20:14:00 - [170] Quote: Because they lack proper morals, so either a birth defect or bad upbringing. No. Because they lack YOUR morals and ideals. This is a game, not RL. Quote: but if you're causing hundreds of millions of damage on other players just to stroke your ego, then something is wrong. Lack of empathy for your fellow man. It's not lack of empathy. It's a game. Entertainment. Not rl. Quote: Something for you to say, you do not even seem to take the other in consideration when you shoot at his ship/rob his can/etc. Why should he? It's a game, not rl. Quote: Because it usually isn't game breaking if someone undercuts your prices, you can go elsewhere or lower your price too. You can undertake action against it. Hardly the case 150 griefer corp wardecs your 20 man corp and camps the stations you're in. Why is that griefing? A large corp is taking advantage of a smaller one. That sounds a lot like the Eve I know, the kind of play CCP encourages. It's not a personal vendetta against one person by multiple people to make their gameplay suck. It's a war. If you're too weak to handle it, adapt or die (excuse me.) Quote: Carebears can adapt in mysterious ways. Well then what are you complaining about anyway............... Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.eve-online.com

Sionide	Posted - 2008.04.04 20:22:00 - [171] Originally by: VInanath Diesel So out a ship, pride hurt I take my plight to my corpies, who refer me to the petitions system believing I been the victim of an exploit. What follows are the messages between myself and GM anonymous Sorry to hear about your loss, and especially the lie about the ransom and still having your ship blow up (some of us pirates have honor), but taking advantage of naive people isn't an exploit in the game.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2008.04.04 23:21:00 - [172] High-Sec Ganking isnÆt necessarily an exploit, but there is a bigger problem here. EVE is based on group activities, yet the game mechanics facilitate a lack of trust, thus isolating players from each other. Ganking is ok, IMO, but any ship Concorded, should not get an insurance payout, and mining vessels should have better tanks.
Malcanis	Posted - 2008.04.04 23:24:00 - [173] Originally by: Ivy Axisur High-Sec Ganking isnÆt necessarily an exploit, but there is a bigger problem here. EVE is based on group activities, yet the game mechanics facilitate a lack of trust, thus isolating players from each other. Ganking is ok, IMO, but any ship Concorded, should not get an insurance payout, and mining vessels should have better tanks. Wait till you try running a corp before you complain about trust issues... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2008.04.04 23:29:00 - [174] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah I definately think this is one of the game mechanics that need to go. Eve is an MMO and you should be able to help and socialize with people. But now when someone asks for help, it's better to treat him like a leper, because if you don't, chances are big that it's a scam and you're going to be mugged. There is no way to prevent these things from happening (besides never talking to and never flying with another person - ever), and once again, there aren't any consequences for these little brats that commit these crimes. We'll said, you have my vote sir.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2008.04.04 23:30:00 - [175] Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 04/04/2008 23:30:15 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ivy Axisur High-Sec Ganking isnÆt necessarily an exploit, but there is a bigger problem here. EVE is based on group activities, yet the game mechanics facilitate a lack of trust, thus isolating players from each other. Ganking is ok, IMO, but any ship Concorded, should not get an insurance payout, and mining vessels should have better tanks. Wait till you try running a corp before you complain about trust issues... I do run a corp, but thanks to ôtrust issuesö I post with an alt.
Eksist	Posted - 2008.04.05 00:17:00 - [176] This mechanic needs to change. 1- The most important point is that it discourages people from getting to know each other and heavily curtails people from casual interaction outside corps. 2- Its very non-intuitive. Basically you need to experience it or be told by someone to protect yourself from potentially losing a large chunk of your assets. For example, its a breeze to either guess or understand the implications of suicide ganking with very little thought. 3- Even allowing for an 'ambushing' tactic, this one is terribly implemented. There is no reason that people choosing to play the relatively safer portion of the game in high sec should be required to keep a second-by-second eagle eye on a couple of icons at the edge of their screen or lose everything they own. 4- The mechanic is far too easily abused. Aside from the refusal to join fleets, there is no real defense. Any player is helpless if they look away from the screen for long enough for a war target to be invited to the fleet (3 seconds?). Hell, ask a player to open the map and you've probably got them during the map animation. 5- As easily as the trap is to spring, once its sprung its even easier to get the kill. There is no distance to be covered, no locking time to consider. Essentially they are instascrammed, instawebbed, and likely instajammed as well. So this mechanic is absurd in every way and should be changed. I'm all for allowing kills in high sec ambushing, but the way this one mechanic works is both silly, and actually harmful to the game itself.
Emdin Tasoravich Vengeance Imperium	Posted - 2008.04.05 03:48:00 - [177] If you are having trouble with griefing let me know emdin tasoravich in game and we can negotiate a contract with vengeance imperium one of the galaxys most successful merc corps
Mika Meroko Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.04.05 03:55:00 - [178] op got loftied.... but yeah, sad to say it.. but eve degenerated into a "trust no body, acts of kindness will be rewarded with a huge stick up the backside..." but.. if you want to help people: Tell them to give you a bookmark for the mission in station.. but DONT gang up with him... go to the mish and clear it for him.. that way.. he have NO excuse .... if hes really having trouble, then he will make that bookmark for you.. if he is trying to pull a lofty.. he will reject that... so... yeah..
Talon Aidian Skill Level Six	Posted - 2008.04.05 04:21:00 - [179] Edited by: Talon Aidian on 05/04/2008 04:22:23 Myth no. 1 about EVE: It is an MMORPG. It is not. It is a single player game that offers multiplayer play to players who already know each other, and allows those networked players to prey on the single players. To many players, this is the entire point of the game....to cause other players grief. In fact, most players in EVE are like this. Therefore, don't trust anyone. Myth no. 2 about EVE: Your teammates will support you. In fact, everyone is just out to betray and backstab everyone else. Alt-spys and the condoning of such player actions such as the OP describes are considered laudable and of great skill to the majority of the players, and obviously by their actions, the Dev team. If you actually trust someone, you are obviously the one with the problem. Myth no. 3: Players will take responsibility for their online conduct. In fact, players play EVE so they can do anything they want without feeling it was -them - doing it. The actions they take are never their's, but their character's....who doesn't really have any existance in the game beyond a list of ship-altering mods (remember Myth no. 1...this is not an MMORPG). Therefore, don't expect players to honor their word...their character is doing the betraying, not them. Myth no. 4: Flashing red means you can engage them anytime. In fact, this means nothing. If you engage a flashing red target before being shot at, you -will- be flagged as a criminal (I have personal experience of this). The only way to tell if someone is really Shoot-On-Sight is to open their character info and look at their secstatus...by which time they have already podded you. Simply accept that you will die unless you strike first...in which case, Concord will kill you because you didn't kill yourself trying to find out if blinking red really meant KOS, or if it only meant a low secstatus. To sum up, EVE is a single player game with the option to multiplay with your friends to grief the players who don't have friends that play the game, which promotes distrust and betrayal while penalizing trust and teamwork, and that offers players the option of being blameless for anything they do to other players (that's the player's problem, not the game's). Thus do we have a world where each person is completely free to demonstrate exactly how they react when given total freedom and great power. A few try to be better people for it, and make the world a better place, but the vast majority end up basking in the dark things they always wanted to do, and showing all exactly who they really are. I hope this helps increase your enjoyment of the game.
Saori Rei Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.04.05 04:51:00 - [180] Originally by: Talon Aidian Edited by: Talon Aidian on 05/04/2008 04:22:23 Myth no. 1 about EVE: It is an MMORPG. It is not. It is a single player game that offers multiplayer play to players who already know each other, and allows those networked players to prey on the single players. To many players, this is the entire point of the game....to cause other players grief. In fact, most players in EVE are like this. Therefore, don't trust anyone. Myth no. 2 about EVE: Your teammates will support you. In fact, everyone is just out to betray and backstab everyone else. Alt-spys and the condoning of such player actions such as the OP describes are considered laudable and of great skill to the majority of the players, and obviously by their actions, the Dev team. If you actually trust someone, you are obviously the one with the problem. Myth no. 3: Players will take responsibility for their online conduct. In fact, players play EVE so they can do anything they want without feeling it was -them - doing it. The actions they take are never their's, but their character's....who doesn't really have any existance in the game beyond a list of ship-altering mods (remember Myth no. 1...this is not an MMORPG). Therefore, don't expect players to honor their word...their character is doing the betraying, not them. Myth no. 4: Flashing red means you can engage them anytime. In fact, this means nothing. If you engage a flashing red target before being shot at, you -will- be flagged as a criminal (I have personal experience of this). The only way to tell if someone is really Shoot-On-Sight is to open their character info and look at their secstatus...by which time they have already podded you. Simply accept that you will die unless you strike first...in which case, Concord will kill you because you didn't kill yourself trying to find out if blinking red really meant KOS, or if it only meant a low secstatus. To sum up, EVE is a single player game with the option to multiplay with your friends to grief the players who don't have friends that play the game, which promotes distrust and betrayal while penalizing trust and teamwork, and that offers players the option of being blameless for anything they do to other players (that's the player's problem, not the game's). Thus do we have a world where each person is completely free to demonstrate exactly how they react when given total freedom and great power. A few try to be better people for it, and make the world a better place, but the vast majority end up basking in the dark things they always wanted to do, and showing all exactly who they really are. I hope this helps increase your enjoyment of the game. Can I have your babies? swoon

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