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haveyou seenthisman
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:16:00 -
[1]
Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
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Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:17:00 -
[2]
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
Ruin the economy, and turn EVE into a Counterstrike clone you mean? http://jinxbarker.blogspot.com/Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] |
Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:17:00 -
[3]
just for the hell of it anything doesn't survive very long in Eve, its a game about ambushes, traps and feints as a means to reward planning not spontaneous bursts
that said, buff black ops before we do this -10% thing ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Becq Starforged
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:23:00 -
[4]
Don't see how that would make any difference. Including insurance costs and reimbursement, most basic ships (ie, T1 fitted) cost very little to replace. So there is already "just for the hell of it" style PvP available to those who wish to settle for it, as well as more of a "premium" style of PvP for those who prefer it (through T2 and/or faction ships and modules).
-- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
gpfwestie
Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:31:00 -
[5]
If you fit a T1 Frig / Cruiser with T1 gear, the cost of the fittings are almost the same as the loss of the ship (after insurance).
A BC / BS or T2 Frig / Cruiser will lose you the same (ish) as a set of T2 fittings.
So no, the cost of ships / fittings seem to be balanced IMO.
If you want just for the hell of it PVP, see Red V Blue (Shameless plug).
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Shakuul
O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:32:00 -
[6]
I doubt it. Instead, people would just pvp using (formerly) more expensive ships and more expensive mods. I wouldn't be surprised if production costs are effectively down 50-90% compared to early-eve levels just because of mining improvements and new implants. Rorqual + T2 Mining Barge + Foreman Implants + Leadership skills really adds up. What do you see happening? Everyone has their own carrier (well, they did when carriers were good).
Additionally, this would probably mean faction ship prices and other rare item prices would shoot through the roof. People wouldn't be spending much on the ships anymore. Now that they can go through 10x as many Ships and experience the same loss (including T2 mods), they will have that much extra to spend on premium rare drop mods.
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Dirk Magnum
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:40:00 -
[7]
If more people got into mass manufacturing of ships, many classes could be pushed down in price by ten percent thanks to all the competing manufacturers having at each other. This could also lead to more merc wars against such manufacturers, which of course means more ships that need to be replaced. Even if such classes dropped by 10% in price, the manufacturers would still be turning a narrow profit.
The T2 classes could be pushed down in price in a pretty noticeable way if the data core market and the markets of other associated components hadn't gone awry. Obviously invention pushed T2 prices way down in some cases (Hulk down to 100 mil from 500, in some regions, for example), but a more stable components market would push down the prices again to a lesser degree. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
ghard1
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Posted - 2008.04.02 00:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: gpfwestie
If you want just for the hell of it PVP, see Red V Blue (Shameless plug).
i also endorse red vs blue if you just want to shoot something and care not about the politics behind it
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 01:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
Ruin the economy, and turn EVE into a Counterstrike clone you mean?
That seems to be about the gist of what he is proposing. Or, to put it even shorter: Ruin Eve as a game.
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Kolatha
Gryphon Dreaming Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.02 03:00:00 -
[10]
It won't make much difference at all. The reason a lot of people don't PvP is not because of the cost of their ships, it's because they just plain and simply don't want to PvP.
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Mara Rinn
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 03:07:00 -
[11]
The main reason I don't PvP is that I suck at PvP, an industrial/combat/PvE character with 4M SP can't compete against a 6M SP combat/PvP character, even in the same ship with the same fittings, and I don't make enough money to replace the ships I lose as it is.
I'm now making enough money to afford to lose a Slasher or two every month, with basic T1 fittings. I don't want to leave the cotton-wool-padded comfort of my NPC starter corp yet, so I guess next month when I can afford an alt I'll get into the Red v Blue thing to grow my PvP skills as a player.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.02 03:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 02/04/2008 03:36:50
Quote: The main reason I don't PvP is that I suck at PvP, an industrial/combat/PvE character with 4M SP can't compete against a 6M SP combat/PvP character, even in the same ship with the same fittings, and I don't make enough money to replace the ships I lose as it is.
1) EVE PVP is not 1v1 honorzduelz. You can PVP because you can contribute to a group, which has nothing to do with your 1v1 performance.
2) there have been times where a t1-fit ship has been able to beat a t2-fit ship with similar skills. Combat tactics have a lot to do with it, especially in agroup
3) How the hell are you losing ships outside PVP? Moreover, you can only afford to replace a SLASHER every month or two? WHat the hell are you doing for ISK, mining with civilian miners in a noobship? Courier missions?
The reason you aren't PVPing has nothing to do with the ISK cost, nor does it have anything to do with your SP. You're making excuses.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.02 05:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
you mean kill the game for industrials ? yees.. indeed.. you clearly thought that out well
well.. heck.. suggest that do your coverment...reduce all production costs on all the products on the market.... no poor people anymore...yes indeed... very smart ---------------------------------- MY VIEW ARE MY OWN, I DON'T REPRESENT MY CORPORATIONS VIEWS HERE... stop mailing me.. plz
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.02 05:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mara Rinn The main reason I don't PvP is that I suck at PvP, an industrial/combat/PvE character with 4M SP can't compete against a 6M SP combat/PvP character, even in the same ship with the same fittings, and I don't make enough money to replace the ships I lose as it is.
I'm now making enough money to afford to lose a Slasher or two every month, with basic T1 fittings. I don't want to leave the cotton-wool-padded comfort of my NPC starter corp yet, so I guess next month when I can afford an alt I'll get into the Red v Blue thing to grow my PvP skills as a player.
SP is allmost irrelavant... i have gotten killed by people whit 3 or 4 times less SP than i have. Brains = win.. not SP ---------------------------------- MY VIEW ARE MY OWN, I DON'T REPRESENT MY CORPORATIONS VIEWS HERE... stop mailing me.. plz
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Jennai
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.02 05:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shakuul I doubt it. Instead, people would just pvp using (formerly) more expensive ships and more expensive mods. I wouldn't be surprised if production costs are effectively down 50-90% compared to early-eve levels just because of mining improvements and new implants.
megathrons used to cost 110-120, now they're like 90. however, it's much easier for people to get into a battleship now than it was 3 years ago because of improved missions, salvaging, barges/exhumers, invention, etc.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum If more people got into mass manufacturing of ships, many classes could be pushed down in price by ten percent thanks to all the competing manufacturers having at each other. This could also lead to more merc wars against such manufacturers, which of course means more ships that need to be replaced. Even if such classes dropped by 10% in price, the manufacturers would still be turning a narrow profit.
an excess of producers leads to people leaving the region or switching to less overproduced items so they don't have to sit around playing the 0.01 isk game all day. furthermore, increased production without a corresponding increase in demand leads to ever-dropping margins and people leaving the market to invest in things with better isk/effort ratio, and the same thing happens with increased production without increased mineral volume.
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Rawr Cristina
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Posted - 2008.04.02 06:21:00 -
[16]
if you want counterstrike PvP, go on SiSi ... Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Ralara
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Posted - 2008.04.02 07:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
No there wouldn't.
People wont venture into low sec with fully insured BS or BCs (so they only lose a tiny amount if killed), and they still wont do it.
They wont do it in fully insured cruisers
They wont do it in fully insured frigates.
Some people will just never enter low sec or 0.0 because they don't want their things to blow up or even be put in a situation where it may be possible to be blown up. -- Ralara / Ralarina |
Xyn Rhais
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xyn Rhais on 02/04/2008 08:05:41 This is not a space shooting game.
"Just for the hell of it PvP" is poor PvP, for the FPS kids from steam. Good PvP is the one that happens for a more important objective. Piracy and mercenary contracts for isk. War for territory and resources, etc...
Reducing the penalty of death (and basicly that's what you're asking for), is about the worst thing that could happen to this game. That and adding points and ladders for shooting people.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:32:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/04/2008 08:33:19
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman Reduce the cost of producing a ship to 10% its current, would there be more "just for the hell of it" style PVP?
Build cost for Abaddon for 140mil roughly. Insurance costs around 40mil When it blows you get 180mil.
Basically the ship is free already. Of course, modules cost isk but the issue is too many people are afraid of the unknown. --
Billion Isk Mission |
ED 209
Old Detroit Crime Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:35:00 -
[20]
Just join goonfleet if you "just for the hell of it" style PVP and become one of their fc's. I hear they are hiring.
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Gaven Blands
interimo
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:40:00 -
[21]
Ship Cost x 10 and improve the quality of the PvP you mean?
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and with this Post, I scent this thread. Biased moderators are on the way. |
Primnproper
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.02 08:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina if you want counterstrike PvP, go on SiSi
What really they've introduced twitch based mechanics have they and short rounds which reset once one sides won......
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2008.04.02 09:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mara Rinn The main reason I don't PvP is that I suck at PvP, an industrial/combat/PvE character with 4M SP can't compete against a 6M SP combat/PvP character, even in the same ship with the same fittings, and I don't make enough money to replace the ships I lose as it is.
I'm now making enough money to afford to lose a Slasher or two every month, with basic T1 fittings. I don't want to leave the cotton-wool-padded comfort of my NPC starter corp yet, so I guess next month when I can afford an alt I'll get into the Red v Blue thing to grow my PvP skills as a player.
If you're only making enough ISK to lose a tier2 T1 frigate every 2 weeks then you're much worse at being an industrialist than you could possibly be as a PvPer. An 800k SP alt should be able to make the 250k or so such a ship costs in about 30-60 minutes doing missions.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lt Angus
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Posted - 2008.04.02 09:18:00 -
[24]
Might get some people to pvp more but most of us already have more than we can spend Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2008.04.02 09:20:00 -
[25]
It's the cost of defeat that makes victory sweet.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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haveyou seenthisman
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.02 19:40:00 -
[26]
Right. I read all that crap and left it a day now I feel obliged to reply
"Counterstrike in space." Yes, please, ill take 3. Like many older players i remember a time 2 - 3 years ago when you could fly around for 10 minutes and find a fight.
Not a gank, not an "honor tanked" 1 on 1, not a capital drop, just a plain old "here are some ships im going to attack them" fight.
I see thread after thread "..I flew for 6 hours last night and didnt find anything to shoot but a shuttle..."
Whines of nano-gangs, suicide gankers, empty low-sec, boring 0.0 combat.
In short: screw how much money you are making from industry, i dont care, I want to fight and the game IS NOT currently providing that experience for me in anything like a realistic timeframe for a "game."
I want to log in and find something to fight asap, blow it up or get blown up then move on.
Yes this is the way i want to play, no - many of you will not agree with it. This isnt a popularity contest its a thread on a subject that has interest to me.
You can still leave many income streams intact and have people flying about in 5m ISK battlecruisers. In my honest opinion 5m would allow a lot more people to log in fly to low sec or 0.0 and look for an explosion.
You die in any game you feel it, the cost thing (especially in a game where ISK can be produced by selling timecards) is a null argument - bottom line is someone beats you at almost anything you swear at them.
tldr,bottomline: Give us our pew pew back.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: haveyou seenthisman
You can still leave many income streams intact and have people flying about in 5m ISK battlecruisers.
An unrigged, T2-fit, fully-insured tier 2 battlecruiser costs very little to replace these days, comparitively speaking. You'd lose maybe 10mil ISK (15 at most) which you could get back from a single L4 mission.
In the 'old days', losses were a LOT more costly than they are now, just the attitude to PvP was nothing like it is now. ...
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:07:00 -
[28]
People PvP in *ships*?!?
That must be what happens to all the junk I sell!
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.02 20:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 02/04/2008 20:13:55 The reason you cant find your fights is three fold:
1. pos's 2. too many damn stations in 0.0 3. non-covops cloaks.
3 needs removal (I use em all the time, they're too ******* convenient). 2. needs some adapting, but well, can't really remove outposts now. 1. dead horse.
edit: You don't see isk in there, because it's not a factor. Losing stuff costs nothing these days. [center] Old blog |
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