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Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 00:32:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Originally by: Goumindong
You don't need a rorq, you just need any command ship.
Its about profit bud remember and a rorq cannot be used in empire.
Yes, and the difference between the rorq and the cs is not very significant.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 01:16:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Originally by: Goumindong
You don't need a rorq, you just need any command ship.
Its about profit bud remember and a rorq cannot be used in empire.
Yes, and the difference between the rorq and the cs is not very significant.
And the minerals in empire are just as good as in 0.0 .
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YetAnotherTradeAlt
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.09 02:03:00 -
[153]
Edited by: YetAnotherTradeAlt on 09/04/2008 02:03:37
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Originally by: Goumindong
You don't need a rorq, you just need any command ship.
Its about profit bud remember and a rorq cannot be used in empire.
Yes. I'm alt posting. If you can use an obvious alt, so can I.
Tell me sir, do you own space? One of the main points of being able to control space in general is to keep it safe from random roving enemies. If you can't keep it under control (read as: clear out any threats to your Sovereignty there), then your Sovereignty is little more than a dot on the map.
Now, what would you do if Goonswarm stuck 20 ships in every one of your systems, at random safespots, and cloaked them? They engage when they want to, they have intel on your every move in your space (from the cloakers in your OTHER systems running directional scans). And if they do not want to engage, you can do NOTHING about them, but you must always take them into account.
Tell me, how do you intend to profit off your space (which is costing you goodly sums in POS fuel and the logistics chains to keep you supplied)? Hell, how do you intend to HOLD your space? Guard everyone? Guarding ops against attacks that will not come to a horde of guards is both boring as hell and vastly lowers your potential profits. Worse, many of the ships you would guard are so paper thin that its entirely possible to show up, kill one of them and be gone before anyone can really react.
Now, I want you to define opportunity cost, in your own words. You have yet to demonstrate a basic grasp of this economic principle. Then tell me the opportunity cost of living with cloaked ships in your space to you, and the opportunity cost of leaving a 6 month old alt with a cloaked frigate AFK in your enemies space when you're not using another character on that account.
Now tell me how well that jives with the risk-reward arguments thrown around on these forums so much.
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HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 02:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: YetAnotherTradeAlt
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Originally by: Goumindong
You don't need a rorq, you just need any command ship.
Its about profit bud remember and a rorq cannot be used in empire.
Yes. I'm alt posting. If you can use an obvious alt, so can I.
Tell me sir, do you own space? One of the main points of being able to control space in general is to keep it safe from random roving enemies. If you can't keep it under control (read as: clear out any threats to your Sovereignty there), then your Sovereignty is little more than a dot on the map.
Now, what would you do if Goonswarm stuck 20 ships in every one of your systems, at random safespots, and cloaked them? They engage when they want to, they have intel on your every move in your space (from the cloakers in your OTHER systems running directional scans). And if they do not want to engage, you can do NOTHING about them, but you must always take them into account.
Tell me, how do you intend to profit off your space (which is costing you goodly sums in POS fuel and the logistics chains to keep you supplied)? Hell, how do you intend to HOLD your space? Guard everyone? Guarding ops against attacks that will not come to a horde of guards is both boring as hell and vastly lowers your potential profits. Worse, many of the ships you would guard are so paper thin that its entirely possible to show up, kill one of them and be gone before anyone can really react.
Now, I want you to define opportunity cost, in your own words. You have yet to demonstrate a basic grasp of this economic principle. Then tell me the opportunity cost of living with cloaked ships in your space to you, and the opportunity cost of leaving a 6 month old alt with a cloaked frigate AFK in your enemies space when you're not using another character on that account.
Now tell me how well that jives with the risk-reward arguments thrown around on these forums so much.
All the things you are talking about is what happens in a 0.0 war when you are being invaded bud. If those 20 ships per system are either cloaked or in a POS either way it matters not as you cannot mine/rat anyway unless yopu work as a team.
You can run large alliance wide mining op ops with all the bells and whistles and a good array of combat ships to deal with the 20 ppl in local should they decide to start a fight, you can put bubbles on the gates to stop or at least slow the other systems guys from coming into the system for reinforcements. And you can easily keep a miner alive long enough to get him out of harms way with logistic ships.
Ive been on plenty of alliance mining ops in the past and they were boring but we locked things up tight and made buckets of isk as long as the ppl were willing to work together, but i have also seen alliances fall apart because the ppl in them were selfish, greedy and refused to work together as a alliance.
And those that fell apart did so without having 20 cloakers in each of there systems or even one, they fell apart because the players in them were out for number one pure and simple and as soon as things looked even slightly awkward they bailed for another alliance or area to parasite in.
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Goumindong
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Posted - 2008.04.09 04:33:00 -
[155]
You're dodging his question.
http://eve-files.com/dl/154147
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Vote Goumindong for CSM[/url] |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 10:01:00 -
[156]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 10:03:56
Originally by: Goumindong
You're dodging his question.
Dodging what question... this one?.
Originally by: YetAnotherTradeAlt
Now, what would you do if Goonswarm stuck 20 ships in every one of your systems, at random safespots, and cloaked them? They engage when they want to, they have intel on your every move in your space (from the cloakers in your OTHER systems running directional scans). And if they do not want to engage, you can do NOTHING about them, but you must always take them into account.
Here was my answer:
You can run large alliance wide mining op ops with all the bells and whistles and a good array of combat ships to deal with the 20 ppl in local should they decide to start a fight, you can put bubbles on the gates to stop or at least slow the other systems guys from coming into the system for reinforcements. And you can easily keep a miner alive long enough to get him out of harms way with logistic ships.
Or another one cos i answered him even if you do not like the answers.
You really just ignore anything that proves you wrong dont you??.. is pretending the truth is not there how you justify your mindless ranting about how the game is unbalanced cos your individual and team work skills suck. Stop telling me im avoiding things when i quite clearly am not and go troll caod, your ideas are moronic biased, pro blob and belong there. |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.04.09 14:15:00 -
[157]
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
random stuff...
So you think it is ok than random group can deny you any use of space or even travelling through your space at no cost for themselves?
If it is so than there is no point to continue conversation between you and Goumindong. Your POV is just opposite to your.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 14:22:00 -
[158]
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Here was my answer
No, that was you telling him that he and all alliances suck. That was not telling him what you would do if it happened.
And no, you can't keep miners alive with logistics, they will be volleyed before the cycle time resets on your shield boosters[via target switching]
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 16:36:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Here was my answer
No, that was you telling him that he and all alliances suck. That was not telling him what you would do if it happened.
And no, you can't keep miners alive with logistics, they will be volleyed before the cycle time resets on your shield boosters[via target switching]
So you say i did not answer then in the very next sentence you argue with my answer . Your style of troll sucks
4 large remote reppers per logistic ship with a cycle time of 5 secs each not keeping up with the dps of a few 6 month old alts (who are getting popped/ewared) until your ships can warp out. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:30:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Goumindong on 09/04/2008 18:31:03
Its not the DPS you have to worry about, its changing targets. But no, it wouldn't. 20 6 month old alts can be doing around 400 DPS apiece in cruiser sized ships [and ewaring you right back], so you're looking at ~8000 DPS +/- ewar.
ed: "I put a logistics in the belt" is not an answer. Its like saying "oh i just defend them"
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
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HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:40:00 -
[161]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 18:47:22
Originally by: Goumindong
Its not the DPS you have to worry about, its changing targets. But no, it wouldn't. 20 6 month old alts can be doing around 400 DPS apiece in cruiser sized ships [and ewaring you right back], so you're looking at ~8000 DPS +/- ewar.
ed: "I put a logistics in the belt" is not an answer. Its like saying "oh i just defend them"
If you cannot warp out your aligned ships in the time from when the hostiles are on the scanner to them landing, locking and a bit of remote repping you deserve to be popped.
You are arguing math while the reality is that by the time they landed your vulnerable ships should be long gone or at least on the way out and all that is left are combat ships dishing out pwnage on noobs.
Anyway i thought i avoided the question, so you are arguing with answers that do not exist, get away from here your ideas are juvenile and go back to caod.
PS; Im up to 60+ kills this month (in just under 9 days) in 0.0 outnumbered in a lot of the situations, thats what?..almost half of your entire kills in the game time since 2006?.
Before you teach you should really learn.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:45:00 -
[162]
How do you keep your ships in range of the roids and cans?
Aligning is a great tactic ratting in a raven, not so much for mining
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:50:00 -
[163]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 18:53:08
Originally by: Goumindong
How do you keep your ships in range of the roids and cans?
Aligning is a great tactic ratting in a raven, not so much for mining
eve uni give lessons on how to use a scanner its easy and it lets you know when bad men are coming and when to start moving bud.. maybe you should join and learn stuff before you make silly attempts to correct ppl who actually know stuff.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:14:00 -
[164]
I can't believe a GOON is whining about not being safe mining in 0.0 because there are cloaked hostiles in system
Is that why your alliance decided to shoot miners in HighSec? It wasn't "fair" that you weren't safe in 0.0? Fact of life: 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. Perhaps you should move back to Empire if you can't handle that and get ganked like the rest of us...
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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YetAnotherTradeAlt
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:11:00 -
[165]
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 18:53:08
Originally by: Goumindong
How do you keep your ships in range of the roids and cans?
Aligning is a great tactic ratting in a raven, not so much for mining
eve uni give lessons on how to use a scanner its easy and it lets you know when bad men are coming and when to start moving bud.. maybe you should join and learn stuff before you make silly attempts to correct ppl who actually know stuff.
Okay, so our counter is now to post a full battlefleet AND enough logistics to keep the miners covered AND at least one of them is spamming scans to see if any of those 20 are warping into range AND can identify the cloaker's ship at a glance at the scan from all the ships the guards are flying? What's next, clearing every belt with a doomsday blast before you set up the miners to check for stealth bombers?
All this, to prevent an attack where our 20 Cloakers, being smart, won't engage. Why should they? They're not there to suicide themselves (or maybe they are, a 100m Hulk for 5 cheap, insurable Thoraxes or Vexors is a good trade from an ISK standpoint).
How many of your PvP combat pilots log in every day, eager to hop into their warships and sit in a belt watching miners? How much is their morale going to suffer when they have 20 hostiles everywhere they look and they can't do jack about it?
But the question you're dodging is this one:
Originally by: YetAnotherTradeAlt
Now, I want you to define opportunity cost, in your own words. You have yet to demonstrate a basic grasp of this economic principle. Then tell me the opportunity cost of living with cloaked ships in your space to you, and the opportunity cost of leaving a 6 month old alt with a cloaked frigate AFK in your enemies space when you're not using another character on that account.
Now tell me how well that jives with the risk-reward arguments thrown around on these forums so much.
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HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:20:00 -
[166]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 22:20:57
If another alliance is looking to kill yours this is what happens in 0.0 pal, now if you want me to tell you how to make as much isk in a 0.0 warzone as you can in a stable non warzone 0.0 system then il honestly say i cannot, but i have not tried to ive just told you how alliances have dealt with it in the past.
But that is 0.0 for you if your at war buddy, everybody has had to deal with cloakers in the past either by doing fully organized alliance mining ops or by spending isk on other assets that generate isk like moons or BPO's.
Welcome to 0.0 great ain't it now stop crying and deal with it, or go back to empire.
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Stiches
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:26:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Nothing wrong with cloaks, nothing wrong with being afk cloaked. Something wrong with you knowing someone is there cloaked.
Nerf local, not cloaks.
/signed
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happy
Gallente
Sky Net Industries
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 23:28:00 -
[168]
simple soultion maxcloaktimer =120 min (could be adjusted for game ballance) after 2 hours modual shuts off and has to be reactvated no more afk as if you go afk for extended time you may get blasted if some one probes you out or you sitting on a gate.
If your happy and you know it clap your hands...... and if your not happy and you know it, .....its probaly because i just podded
you
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 00:19:00 -
[169]
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 09/04/2008 22:28:51
If another alliance is looking to kill yours this is what happens in 0.0 pal, now if you want me to tell you how to make as much isk in a 0.0 warzone as you can in a stable non warzone 0.0 system then il honestly say i cannot, but i have not tried too, ive just told you how alliances have dealt with it in the past.
But that is 0.0 for you if your at war buddy, everybody has had to deal with cloakers in the past either by doing fully organized alliance mining ops or by spending isk on other assets that generate isk like moons or BPO's.
Welcome to 0.0 great ain't it now stop crying and deal with it, or go back to empire.
What is the difference between a 0.0 war-zone and a non war-zone 0.0 system?
We want you to tell us how you can make more money in a 0.0 "war-zone" than you can in a stable empire location.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.10 00:50:00 -
[170]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 10/04/2008 00:52:22
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
[
If another alliance is looking to kill yours this is what happens in 0.0 pal, now if you want me to tell you how to make as much isk in a 0.0 warzone as you can in a stable non warzone 0.0 system then il honestly say i cannot, but i have not tried too, ive just told you how alliances have dealt with it in the past.
But that is 0.0 for you if your at war buddy, everybody has had to deal with cloakers in the past either by doing fully organized alliance mining ops or by spending isk on other assets that generate isk like moons or BPO's.
Welcome to 0.0 great ain't it now stop crying and deal with it, or go back to empire.
What is the difference between a 0.0 war-zone and a non war-zone 0.0 system?
We want you to tell us how you can make more money in a 0.0 "war-zone" than you can in a stable empire location.
Join eve uni you need the education because im sick of explaining 0.0 101 to somebody who has such a negative attitude to things and lies to try to prove non existant points.
PS: Im up to over 80 ship kills this month (9 days in) how are you getting on?. Still on 3 for the month and 176 since 28/8/06 do you really consider yourself qualified to be on this forum or any other with that sort of record?.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 00:53:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Goumindong on 10/04/2008 00:53:56
Who are you killing and where? Also play time.
ed: and as usual, no proof or explanation.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.10 00:58:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Goumindong
Who are you killing and where? Also play time.
1. Everybody, we do not nap.
2. Everywhere in 0.0 as everybody is considered a target.
3. Id say less time than you spend trolling the forums instead of gaining the ingame xp you should really have to make the ridiculous claims you do....
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:04:00 -
[173]
So who are you then? Otherwise why should i believe you are not lying?
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:10:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Goumindong
So who are you then? Otherwise why should i believe you are not lying?
Im more than comfortable for you to believe i am lying in fact i just logged out to have a early night, So perhaps you should log in, put gang together and go kick a bit of butt as from your comments on here you seem to think your a pro. Maybe you will even catch me up a bit.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:12:00 -
[175]
Yea, so i'm going to go with "you can't" because you wont show us how easy it is, and "you are a liar" because you wont let us know who you are.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:40:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Yohanes Flame
45 minutes cycle time on cloak with a 20 second cool down. problem minimized?
downsides please respond.
You couldn't use cloaks to ambush people, turning them off fast is essential to that operation. If you can turn them off fast, nothing changes.
I consider that an integral part of cloaking.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
HEY LISTEN
i swear this is true
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:54:00 -
[177]
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 10/04/2008 10:00:22
Originally by: Goumindong
Yea, so i'm going to go with "you can't" because you wont show us how easy it is, and "you are a liar" because you wont let us know who you are.
Theres a shocker.
Anyway back on topic, cloaks are fine as they are and if an alliance's space is under attack then it should not be safe to carebear at will with no risk in fact it should be very hard or impossable.
Eve in normal war's you have commando's, sleeper agents, partisans, insurgents and other types of hidden saboteurs and units that hurt the enemies supply lines or economy/manufacturing endeavors.
This sort of thing has been going on in wars and in eve for a long time but it seems the influx of carebear types from empire into 0.0 has got them all hot and bothered and crying to ccp about the harsh reality of making isk in 0.0.
Suck it up or go back to empire.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:12:00 -
[178]
Originally by: HEY LISTEN
Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 10/04/2008 10:56:55
Originally by: Goumindong
Yea, so i'm going to go with "you can't" because you wont show us how easy it is, and "you are a liar" because you wont let us know who you are.
Theres a shocker.
Anyway back on topic, cloaks are fine as they are and if an alliance's space is under attack then it should not be safe to carebear at will with no risk in fact it should be very hard or impossable.
In normal RL war's you have commando's, sleeper agents, partisans, insurgents and other types of hidden saboteurs and units that hurt the enemies supply lines or economy/manufacturing endeavors.
This sort of thing has been going on in wars and in eve for a long time but it seems the influx of carebear types from empire into 0.0 has got them all hot and bothered and crying to ccp about the harsh reality of making isk in 0.0.
Suck it up or go back to empire.
The answer to "There is not enough risk in belt based production activities in 0.0" is not "So i should be invulnerable whenever i damn well please and should have no risk in space", its "increase the risk in belt based production activities.
Even if you were to make a real world comparison to a space ship game and not to just develop a model for understanding human actions in that game you would still come to the conclusion that in real wars commando's, sleeper agents, partisans, insurgents, and other types of hidden saboteurs are the most risky of all operations because you can be found and then executed.
Yet there is no "find and execute" ability. There is not even a "find and fight" ability, there isn't a "find" ability. You can't hunt them down. There is no critical mass where it becomes easier to find them the more they proliferate[in fact, the more they proliferate, the harder it is to deal with them.]
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:11:00 -
[179]
Remove local, all solved. again.. remove local.. you know you want to remove local... you are feeling sleepy... your eyes feel heavy and you want to remove local..... local must go... when you log in in your work machine you will remove all code form local chat from game and remove all its tracks from version control....
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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stinger7
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:16:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Goumindong
Even if you were to make a real world comparison to a space ship game and not to just develop a model for understanding human actions in that game you would still come to the conclusion that in real wars commando's, sleeper agents, partisans, insurgents, and other types of hidden saboteurs are the most risky of all operations because you can be found and then executed.
Yet there is no "find and execute" ability. There is not even a "find and fight" ability, there isn't a "find" ability. You can't hunt them down. There is no critical mass where it becomes easier to find them the more they proliferate[in fact, the more they proliferate, the harder it is to deal with them.]
When the guys who fight behind the lines attack is when you get to kill them and eve is the same, i doubt very much that in past wars ppl left important assets and other things unguarded and eve wars are the same.
Im not going to quote examples from history but resistance fighters have always been hidden until the attack just as the defenders have always known they were there but been unable to do anything about it but guard the installations and production areas against the sneak attacks.
Diversification is the key as BOB has shown you and the rest of EVE by having a NON localized facility for producing profit and there for removing the need to be dependent on the roids and rats in the area they live.
Moons, jump clones letting you mission run/work in empire, production of modules or ships for profit, trading in empire... theres plenty of ways to make isk in eve that do not involve sitting in a belt in 0.0.
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