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Ciaphas Khaine
Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.05 20:07:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Ciaphas Khaine on 05/06/2008 20:07:59
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Matrixcvd I am so sick of the "there is not a strong enough counter" the only thing that needs a buff is the brain cells of people who think nano is overpowered. Tactics are required to defeat your enemy, the tools exist you just need to work on your tactics.
So you disagree with the fact that the easist way to counter a nanogang is with nanoships?
yes i disagree witht that assertion. ever tried using an armor tanked rapier with some RR bs's? works every time. and guess what? you dont even need 15 people in T2 ships to pull off this miracle!
the point is that yes nano gangs rip apart poory thought out and poorly led conventional gangs. thats how it should be.
maybe if some of you lazy whiners got out of your t1 fitted drakes and started using tactics to counter nano ships, you would realize that its not that hard.
BOOST EVERYTHING THAT I FLY! NERF EVERYTHING I DONT! |
Lumen Atra
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.05 20:13:00 -
[212]
Just because there are counters to something doesn't necessarily mean there is not a problem that should be addressed at the development level.
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Sinnae Takeda
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Posted - 2008.06.05 20:28:00 -
[213]
*what i would put high on page 1*
read Nyphur's posts on page 5 of the thread. read them again. congratulations, you've just learned everything there is to know about the current nano situation.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.05 22:05:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Ciaphas Khaine Edited by: Ciaphas Khaine on 05/06/2008 20:07:59
Originally by: Lord WarATron
So you disagree with the fact that the easist way to counter a nanogang is with nanoships?
yes i disagree witht that assertion. ever tried using an armor tanked rapier with some RR bs's? works every time. and guess what? you dont even need 15 people in T2 ships to pull off this miracle!
the point is that yes nano gangs rip apart poory thought out and poorly led conventional gangs. thats how it should be.
maybe if some of you lazy whiners got out of your t1 fitted drakes and started using tactics to counter nano ships, you would realize that its not that hard.
Armour tanked Rapier + remote rep BS's is a nano counter since you claim it "works every time"?
Please, do go on. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.06.05 22:21:00 -
[215]
Actually, it is good for EVE that speed configurations are a viable option. That really should stay the case.
I would contend the problem lies not with the average nano-configuration (which tops out at a speed still strikable by light drones and precision cruise), but rather with pirate implants and high end gang-assist modules. Throw those into the mix, and the gang speeds become fairly unmanageable without a large and specialized solution (which you can simply opt out of fighting).
Be careful not to break a good part of EVE in response to the extreme case. Its the extreme case that is problematic, not the ordinary one.
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Criid Tona
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Posted - 2008.06.06 00:01:00 -
[216]
My simple 2 cents here...
Take out MWD's. I've seen no reason in game for them, just an AB on seroids. They pretty much make AB's pointless and they are almost a requirement on any non-cloakers, maybe eve then. Alot of people think you have a crap fit without them.
Take out MWD's and you no longer have ships hitting combat speeds that will outrun missiles (which is totally stupid imo, maybe ok for interceptors because thats their whole point -extreme speed-). It will level the playing field much more and make AB's actually worth having in the game.
Fast ships will still be faster then everything else and all... all it changes it makes combat speeds more realistic.
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Tarron Sarek
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.06.06 02:28:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Mistress Suffering Be careful not to break a good part of EVE in response to the extreme case. Its the extreme case that is problematic, not the ordinary one.
QFT
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-
('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it) |
Hellanna
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Posted - 2008.06.06 02:33:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Hellanna on 06/06/2008 02:34:18
Matrixcvd you are one of the most ignorant players to ever post on these forums. Stop poasting, forever.
Back on topic. Scripts for webs would be awesome. The base range of a web could be 10km with a 50% slow. One script could add 100% range but take off 30% of the slow, making it a 20km web with a 20% slow. The other script could add 45% slow and no range bonus making it a 95% slow at 10km. Numbers aren't concrete of course but it's a start.
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Kaptan Klutz
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Posted - 2008.06.06 03:36:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Hellanna Edited by: Hellanna on 06/06/2008 02:34:18
Matrixcvd you are one of the most ignorant players to ever post on these forums. Stop poasting, forever.
Back on topic. Scripts for webs would be awesome. The base range of a web could be 10km with a 50% slow. One script could add 100% range but take off 30% of the slow, making it a 20km web with a 20% slow. The other script could add 45% slow and no range bonus making it a 95% slow at 10km. Numbers aren't concrete of course but it's a start.
I'm pretty sure if you do that you will just see scorpions with 8 webs and madness like that. This will kill nano's altogther. I definatly hate fighting them but it is a way to play eve, and the freedom to choose that is what makes the game fun (most of the time). There are ships that can kill nano's (or it looks like ccp tried to make one to do it) and that would be destoryers. Of course we all know they are useless beyond salvaging a mission wreck. I say either a.) restore Interdictors speed, or b.) perhaps make a second tech II destroyer class build more for hitting the enemy that actually can do something besides hope the enemy nano-gang starts laughing so hard that they can't here their FC. Thoughs on that maybe?
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Malvor Skylen
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Posted - 2008.06.06 15:06:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Malvor Skylen on 06/06/2008 15:06:59 The "REAL" Nano Problemà I donÆt think there is really any problem nanos per se.
I think the real problem is that very few ship fittings have a good survival rate. So either nanos should be easier to catch and kill, or all ships should have a better chance of survival. As it is now, staying cloaked or being a speed tanked are only good ways to stay alive long unless you are in the largest gang in the area. I think it would better if all ships had a better chance at survival.
I think you should be able to use shields, armor, EW, cloaking, or speed as a primary method of surviving. And unless your opponents are well suited to counter your survival method you should have a good chance. Also, if you run into superior forces running should be a good option.
Unfortunately, if you are outnumbered you just better run before getting tackled, or youÆre dead. Very rarely is there any other outcome. Generally the only chance to run is to be a nanoÆed frig or cruiser class ship. Unfortunately for frigs, because of their low hit points, all it takes is a little bad luck and you are still tackled and dead before you can make an escape. With a cruiser class ship you have a small chance of killing a tackler and then escaping before you are destroyed.
I donÆt really know what the right answer is without destroying other aspects of the game. I have some ideas that might help though. And IÆm sure many here will hate all of these ideas.
1.) Allow ships to cloak while being targeted. However, there should be a counter to this. Maybe some type of EW cloak disruptor, or an area effect de-cloaking missile/bomb/weapon.
2.) Most things in the game have diminishing returns. Why not apply some type to targeting disruption as multiple ships try to target one ship. IÆm not sure how it could be implemented, but if you only had to contend with a few ships being able to target you, you should be able to make an escape. Those couple ships couldnÆt easily tackle and kill you without some risk of you being able to fight back to some degree. As it is now, one ship can web you, one can warp scram you, another can sensor damp you, while another nuets you, then the rest can DPS you. Or even these can put enough DPS on you. You canÆt cloak, run, or fight back.
3.) Webber and Warp scrams are just too powerful and easy to use and there are not enough counters. Right now the only real counter to either of these is having enough speed to keep out of range of them. Which, still requires a little luck too. I know this all too well. I like flying speed tanked frig class ships. IntyÆs are fun. But if your enemy happens to warp in too close, or you warp in too close to them, game over. I can live luck being a small part of the game. But there is no real counter to being webbed. You can use warp stabilizers against scrams the penalties are huge.
Now all that said, PvPers seem to feel entitled to be able to catch and kill other players easily. It seems most players would have a problem with other pilots being able to escape combat fairly well. I donÆt understand this. I think the games of cat and mouse and trying to be able to catch someone or out DPS their tank should be a greater part of PvP. As it is now it is mostly just out numbering someone so you can pin and kill them. And, if you outnumber an enemy it is pretty easy to do.
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Ciaphas Khaine
Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.06 15:49:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Ciaphas Khaine Edited by: Ciaphas Khaine on 05/06/2008 20:07:59
Originally by: Lord WarATron
So you disagree with the fact that the easist way to counter a nanogang is with nanoships?
yes i disagree witht that assertion. ever tried using an armor tanked rapier with some RR bs's? works every time. and guess what? you dont even need 15 people in T2 ships to pull off this miracle!
the point is that yes nano gangs rip apart poory thought out and poorly led conventional gangs. thats how it should be.
maybe if some of you lazy whiners got out of your t1 fitted drakes and started using tactics to counter nano ships, you would realize that its not that hard.
Armour tanked Rapier + remote rep BS's is a nano counter since you claim it "works every time"?
Please, do go on.
You attack them with about half their numbers, but with RR bs's and the rapier. rapier gets remote repped and tackles hotiles nano's. enemy nanos pop in short order. QED.
BOOST EVERYTHING THAT I FLY! NERF EVERYTHING I DONT! |
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