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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.18 08:48:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 18/08/2008 08:48:42
 Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 03/04/2008 17:52:44
Ok, so weÆve been knocking around a bunch of ideas relating to starbases and so on this week, and one thing that came up as an unnecessary complication of the system is the multiple fuel types needed for each tower.
The Liquid Ozone and Heavy water both serve a distinct purpose, and we need at least one other general fuel type to make the cost/benefit equations work according to the design. ThereÆs no explicit design need though for towers themselves to burn six different fuel types (Racial Isotopes, Enriched Uranium, Mechanical Parts, Coolant, Oxygen and Robotics) at a constant rate.
That said, we donÆt want to disrupt the current mechanics too much, or make any radical changes to the principles behind starbase fuelling until we have the opportunity to revisit the broader set of mechanics. We have therefore come up with a proposal to reduce the logistical complexity of actually fuelling towers (starting with opening your fuel storage receptacle and ending with placing the fuel in the fuel bay).
The key point is that we create four racial ôfuel pelletsö, which replace the isotopes and NPC commodities in the starbase fuel bay. They are manufactured, using blueprints, from the relevant isotope type and NPC commodities (quantities below). You then just pop in Heavy Water, Liquid Ozone and fuel pellets, and the starbase runs as normal.
A requirement of this going in sooner rather than later is that it doesnÆt require any changes to the underlying code. One upshot of this is that all starbases have to be migrated across to using fuel pellets rather than commods û if we go ahead with this, you will not be able to fuel towers directly with isotopes and commodities.
Now for the numbers!
One run of the blueprint will need the following materials, and will output 80 fuel pellets:
Isotopes: 452
Enriched Uranium: 4
Oxygen: 28
Mech Parts: 8
Coolant: 4
Robotics: 4
Towers will consume pellets according to the following scheme:
Large: 80/hour
Medium: 40/hour
Small: 20/hour
Large Faction 1: 70/hour
Medium Faction 1: 35/hour
Small Faction 1: 17/hour
Large Faction 2: 60/hour
Medium Faction 2: 30/hour
Small Faction 2: 15/hour
(Faction 1 is Blood et al, Faction 2 is Dark Blood et al)
YouÆll notice if you run the math that this results in some towers consuming slightly more fuel per cycle than they do currently; if weÆre going to have a single pellet for each isotope we need to either round up or round down due to imperfect scaling between tower types, and rounding down isnÆt really something we want to do here. The 80/40/20 progression lets us keep the 4:2:1 ratio while still rounding cleanly with both sov bonuses.
This is something weÆre considering purely as a usability boost to make actually fuelling towers less painful, so weÆre asking you all whether you think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. ItÆs not designed to decrease the logistical load at all or to change the major mechanisms of fuelling. Is this something youÆd like to see ingame or should we shelve the idea?
As a bonus question, Fuel Pellets or Fuel Bricks?
Uh, you ransomed my suggestion :( I demand to choose the name for the fuel pellets for this lack of credit 
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=569986&page=3#73
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Sophia Esperanza
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.20 07:21:00 -
[212]
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Edited by: CCP Abathur on 03/04/2008 17:50:27
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
As a bonus question, Fuel Pellets or Fuel Bricks?
Fuel Bricks '08! \o/
Someone should make sigs.
Since you wanted a sig, i went ahead and made you one, tell me if you like.
Sig for CCP Abathur:
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Sophia Esperanza
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.20 07:22:00 -
[213]
Lol, if you want it in diff sizes / colors let me know :D but i thought it was funny. |
ninjaholic
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.20 14:18:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Sophia Esperanza
Fuel Bricks '08! \o/
Someone should make sigs.
I'm on it... |
Sophia Esperanza
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.20 16:14:00 -
[215]
it removed my sig for some reason the one i made for CCP
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4138/ccpabathursigkz3.jpg
there i linked it :D |
ninjaholic
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.20 17:50:00 -
[216]
Rofl, this is a kwikphotochop.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Xavier Zedicus
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Posted - 2008.08.20 18:04:00 -
[217]
Fuel Suppository? |
Pah Triac
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.08.20 19:02:00 -
[218]
Concept is good
Though u REALLY need:
1: Empire factory should be racial bound to the Fuel cells that are produced (modified in amount with standings)
2: POS element that can make the fuel cells (Modefied in amount by sovereignty status)( low sec pos get no bonus)
3: Rorq should be able to create them ( Sov bonus? ) and use them as jump fuel aswell (to give the ppl in Matari, Amarr & Cally 0.0 space a break with the Rorq |
Ishamel 1
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:02:00 -
[219]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
As a bonus question, Fuel Pellets or Fuel Bricks?
Different for different races of course. Amarr get bricks, minmatar get pellets, gallente get rods and caldari get something effeminate.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.08.28 01:56:00 -
[220]
Bricks, bricks for sure. That way BoB can be claimed to have 'shat bricks'
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Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.08.28 22:33:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Roger Douglas on 28/08/2008 22:32:59
Fuel Nodules for caldari
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Draka Dark5
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.09.03 11:09:00 -
[222]
I think using an any_material-to-fuel converter would be a better choice, one where we can drop in everything there is in Eve space for fuel.
One where you could drop in your old outdated and use up ships for fuel convertion.
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Jin Labarre
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Posted - 2008.09.04 15:17:00 -
[223]
My 2 cents on fuel pellets:
Great idea, if the stuff that goes into them makes any sense.
It would be really dumb if it ends up like this:
1. "Hey, I got your daily supplies, Jack."
2. "Cool! Everything?"
1. "Yep, everything."
2. "The replacement parts, the Uranium, fresh air, coolant and the new robotics parts?"
1. "Yep, all of that."
2. "And... where is it?"
1. "Over there."
2. "Behind that stack of... compressed stuff?"
1. "No, it IS the stack of compressed stuff."
2. "Compressed... the air... the spare parts... the URANIUM... Are you ******ed?!"
If there were two kinds of "pellets", it would make sense.
1. Supplies
2. Fuel
Supplies could be packed together, as could fuel. Not as pellets, but more like packages. Deliveries. Containers. Whatever. But I don't want to breath air that has been bundled with the weekly uranium delivery.  |
Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.05 20:55:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Jin Labarre
My 2 cents on fuel pellets:
(snipped)
Supplies could be packed together, as could fuel. Not as pellets, but more like packages. Deliveries. Containers. Whatever. But I don't want to breath air that has been bundled with the weekly uranium delivery.
Hrm, also remembering what happens to a subcritical mass of (presumably enriched) uranium when you compress it.
Booooom! 
Stick in some fancy isotopes of helium and the like for a second stage, and you've got yerself a multiple-megaton thermonuclear bomb. 
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Col Callahan
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:22:00 -
[225]
So is there any Chance that we might be able to get an update on this ideas progressan and if its still being consitered for implementiot. forgive the spelling.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.11 00:31:00 -
[226]
I don't really have time to read the thread in full, but going on the first post by Greyscale alone I love this concept.
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Praesus Lecti
Gallente
Blueprint Haus
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.09.11 20:28:00 -
[227]
If you are going to revamp the fueling of POSs, it could be a good time to see how this could mesh with possible POS mechanic changes vis a vis effectiveness of roaming gangs/small fleets to cause interruptions in tower operations. Sure, gangs can camp gates, gank afk miners, etc but beyond small annoyances as that, their ability to cause larger scale disruption is limited especially in cynojammed systems.
To give a dedicated disruption gang a goal, the powering of POS should be an interruptable (yet not wholly devastating) operation. This would be accomplished by altering how towers receive their energy. I would offer that fueling be a multi-source in-system arrangement of anchored (and destroyable) installations.
You would start with a series of Solar Collectors anchored near the Sun. Each collector would produce a set amount of power, thus, the more towers you have, the more collectors you need (not necessarily a 1:1 ratio.) Each POS would have a receiver module to receive this energy stream.
Anchored at planets would be Planetary Excavators that would extract various materials which would produce robotics, enriched uranium, etc and once their storage capacity is reached would generate automated transports that would be dispatched to all the POSs in the system. At each POS would be a receiving module. These automated transport would function just like the convoys you see in Empire. This convoys would proceed at normal speeds for 200km from the installation, then warp to the destination towers at 200km and proceed in at normal speeds. This allows for the possibility of an intruder to catch the transports.
The various isotopes would still be produced as they are currently.
Now, the reasoning behind a setup such as this would be it's limited vulnerability to small/medium gangs. Such a gang could infiltrate a system, locate the various installations and proceed to attack them. If said installations are damaged enough to go offline, the affected towers switch to consuming Strontium to make up for the loss. Disrupting all the sources would cause the towers to consume Strontium as if they were in reinforced mode.
The various installations would have substantial hitpoints so that they aren't offlined at a whim, yet low enough that a dedicated group could accomplish taking them down.
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Avalira
Caldari
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.09.22 20:19:00 -
[228]
Name suggestion: Fuel Crate
Why? Simply because as a poster above me said, how the hell do you mix all those things into a single "thing"? A fuel crate hints that the items are all inside and neatly packed to take the minimum amount of space. Once in the tower they are automatically unpacked when used up as fuel. You could imagine the POS mechanical parts opening the crate and spreading the components to the various POS areas, all thanks to the instructions on the BPO.
You could even be more explicit and call them "POS fuel crate".
Anyways, I think this is a great idea and solves a lot of the of getting the exact number of each fuel into a POS.
-------------
Selling the following:
Shadow Control Tower (Medium)
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Zinnn
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Posted - 2008.09.27 05:03:00 -
[229]
I like the idea of fuel pellets.
I don't like the idea of manufacturing them.
The refine process could very well just offer you pellets and strontium, that's just my opinion. Manufacturing just adds complexity and waste and will just bog down the market. Best to downsize your database requirements (and bandwidth and overhead) - don't upsize them!
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Newbear
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:54:00 -
[230]
This is a terrible idea. Jump freightors already fixed the logistical problems. You might as well let us use corpses as fuel, just throw them into the ovens.
Click here for my High Security POS Service
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EXA Marketeer
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:43:00 -
[231]
This an absolute waste of time to even discuss. If you're running tower(s) then the math for your fuel isn't a big concern. This "enhancement" simply doens't warrant the overhead for the benefit.
If you want to add a nice mechanic in EVE to simplify tower fueling then allow me to split stacks into equal numbers. That way if I have fuel for 15 towers in my freighter I can split all the ingredients into 15 stacks evenly. That would save some time and would also be beneficial in other areas. |
Valkerias
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Posted - 2008.10.02 15:09:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Newbear
This is a terrible idea. Jump freightors already fixed the logistical problems. You might as well let us use corpses as fuel, just throw them into the ovens.
Finally some use for them. I love this idea. Especially the fuel converter. We can use those metal scraps for something after all.
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2008.10.02 16:29:00 -
[233]
I like this idea. Didn't have time to read all the reply's but it seems pretty good. The cut over from one to the other would be the hard part. Seems to me you could release the pellet BPO's 2-3 months in advance and just allow people to place both regular fuel and pellets in the tower. That way when the cut over happened it would stay fueled. Of course you would have to give plenty of advanced notice etc etc. As long as people were properly informed in advance then it would be there own fault if there tower went down.
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KAT3
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Posted - 2008.10.04 03:12:00 -
[234]
We don't need fuel rods or another step (production) added to the pos fueling process, and anyone using one of the pos trackers currently available knows exactly how much fuel to take to a given pos. Tending to a number of poses is time consuming and the best way to lose a corp member is to assign them pos duty. There may be a few dedicated soles out there that just love pos duty, but for the majority of us its a necessary evil that keeps us from enjoying the fun aspects of the game.
Lets try to think of a way to make pos work less time consuming. Shorten the amount of time it takes to anchor and unanchor. Shorten the amount of time it takes to offline and online a silo. And...while we're at it, lets think big! How about letting a corporation choose a station in their constellation as a pos hub. In this amazing world of Eve there is no reason why a pos technecian can't sit at a pos hub and portal the fuel to any pos within the constellation as long as he has the fuel stock in his corp hanger. Silo contents also could be portaled from silo to silo or silo to hub, as long as its withing the same constellation. Its amazing in eve that we have such advanced technology working for many aspects of eve but down right laborious and unimaginative and untechnilogical ways of doing other tasks. Ofcourse your ability to portal fuel and reactions will need appropriate skills, and perhaps a fuel portal array could be an added station service that could be purchased.
This is all pie in the sky stuff ofcourse but certainly we can do better than fuel rods. Get imaginative with this god awful process of tending to Poses and ease the burden on those dedicated eve players that would love to get out of the pos and into the playing field.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.11 06:09:00 -
[235]
I realize you all want pos fuel to be an isk sink and thus the requirement of npc items as "fuel". Never really made sense to me though why coolant disappeared. I mean what, do all the reactor cores leak? If you're losing cooling from your primary loop, you've got a pretty serious problem. And what about oxygen? You mean with all the advances in tech we can't break co2 down to carbon and oxygen in eve? What about robotic and mechanical parts? With the automated manufacturing that builds battleships in a few hours we don't have space stations that can craft thier own maintenance parts directly from minerals?
I like the idea of fuel rods, but craft them from real fuel. Throw in some minerals maybe. If you must still use npc items, throw in some elements from the periodic table or somthin. Makin fuel rods from robotic parts, mechanical parts, ect is kinda lame.
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Ashley Thomas
Kiith Paktu
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.10.12 04:54:00 -
[236]
love the idea, though instead of fuel pellets or fuel bricks, i say we use fuel rods
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:22:00 -
[237]
So what happened to this?
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Ellariona
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Posted - 2008.10.14 15:12:00 -
[238]
people, please read carefully what the nay-sayers are telling us. I really think they have a good point.
so, NO!
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Col Callahan
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:33:00 -
[239]
Look the nah sayers are saying, oh crap, its going to increase the cost of fueling the tower. no its going to make it easier to fuel them so that instead f having 8 stacks of crap in your hull you only have to have 3 and takes away all the math and plus the current system has (leaks) and is imposable to balanced your fuel and some time it will eat to fast or to slow and never stay balanced. this needs to be fix. Removing the rest of the other things and turning them into only 3 is a grate idea....fuel rods, LO and HW. end of story.
_
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." |
Silent Deviant
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.20 04:56:00 -
[240]
Lets hear it for the fuel "LOG"
That would be a great name for something that powers a "POS" |
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