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Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.26 16:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I run a manufacturing corp along with my brother and ten clone alts, focused on supplying rigs and PI materials to Jita. The alts are all just about to get PEV - and also about to run out of trial time.
I'm looking to round up about 8 billion ISK total so I can afford to PLEX them all and get them making rigs and PI items. 30 day loan, 30% return on investment. Yes, the market will suffer for the massive influx of manufactured goods, but there's still plenty of room; we figure that if the market were infinite we could offer returns up to 100%.
Need for the money: PLEX, blueprints, materials tied up in manufacturing and buy and sell orders
Unfortunately, we are unable to provide any collateral at this point. If we had collateral, we would sell it and reinvest the money in our production.
I realise this is a long shot, but feel free to contact me here or in game and I'll do my best to demonstrate legitimacy. Hopefully some of the folks I used to know on EVE will see this and vouch for me.
-Aurel |
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
41
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Posted - 2012.02.26 16:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sorry my friend, but no one will give you 8b, just because you ask nicely. Not even on 30%. |
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
35
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Posted - 2012.02.26 16:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
So you decided to make 2-3 trial accounts to produce . . . Rigs. What was your plan for keeping these accounts running after the trial ran out? |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.26 16:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was hoping for faster growth. Now that their skills are up they'll generate over a PLEX a month each... Just not in the next 3 days. |
Ameron Phinard
8
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would focus on getting one additional account subbed this month, then resub the next when funds are available, etc. Snowball effect. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
370
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Posted - 2012.02.26 21:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
No way will anyone loan you 8b for plex since you're clearly not profitable. Rethink strategy. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.26 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm not entirely sure how you conclude we're not profitable. We've had insufficient capital to have all of our resources at full use but are still making about 8% of our assets per day. At our current income we could pay back the loan with interest, and our income would increase drastically. |
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.02.27 05:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hate to break it to you, but you can't make 30% on 8B in a month manufacturing rigs.
Maybe a few do, but they have max skills, and good BPO's and know their markets.
It's an easy market to get into, so by default its also a market that doesn't make a good return.
Just like in RL, the most succesfful people are the ones that worked for it. Hey lend me 8 B and I get rich quick!! Start from the bottom and work your way up. |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.27 15:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes, we really can. Our income grows day by day, already it's enough to make the interest several times over.
And actually, this might explain why this market's so lucrative: without looking into it everyone thinks it's impossible. We only have good skills on one character and we don't have good BPOs... |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
148
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Posted - 2012.02.27 15:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:Yes, we really can. Our income grows day by day, already it's enough to make the interest several times over.
And actually, this might explain why this market's so lucrative: without looking into it everyone thinks it's impossible. We only have good skills on one character and we don't have good BPOs...
No - you can't.
The more you push the markets the more they will push back. If you are making 8% per day now you will be making half of that or less when you are at full production. (as a concept this is true for all markets, not just rigs)
Profit does not scale up linearly - which seems to be the major fallacy in your assumptions. |
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Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.27 17:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
There's lots of markets, and I'm fully aware that I won't be making 8% at full production, but we will be making far more money than I currently am. And at our current income we can produce far more than 2.4B/month.
You guys are pretty stubbornly opposed to the idea that there's money to be made in EVE, aren't you? Or maybe it seems too easy? Admittedly, rigs aren't anywhere near as great as they used to be when you could make one in 10 minutes worth 5M in profit... But it's not completely over, and there is *always* lots of money to be made in EVE. |
Oh ro
0
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Posted - 2012.02.27 17:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Whiteknight03 wrote:So you decided to make 2-3 trial accounts to produce . . . Rigs. What was your plan for keeping these accounts running after the trial ran out?
Clearly have people PLEX them for him |
Brandon Tsero
No-Mercy The Methodical Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.02.27 19:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
*sigh* stop being so mean to people trying.
Shoot me a mail, id be interested in helping you as a consultant, you are honestly going big to fast. Also why do you need 8o billion. X3 characters per account, at most 2b in plex would be needed. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
176
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Posted - 2012.02.27 20:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
When I first started out trading Forex, I'd been really successful for about a month, so I made a spreadsheet projecting how much money I was going to have over the next 20 years at that rate.
Excel told me I'd have $26,842,223,058,737,488.37 by now... |
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
36
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Posted - 2012.02.28 05:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't think you understand the concept of market saturation. Rigs have rather low demand. When you are producing few rigs, they'll all sell and also give you a very impressive profit margin. But once you hit the point of saturation, the rest of your stock won't sell.
And the fact that you have not foreseen this makes others wary of doing business with you. In addition the whole lots of accounts silliness and the complete lack of any sort of credibility. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
323
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Posted - 2012.02.28 08:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
The OP mentality reminds me of those near sighted RL corps who believe in infinite growth.
We are living in the age showing their "bold results". Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.28 15:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm not entirely sure why you guys don't understand this: we are profitable. If PLEX came in 3 day quantities at 1/10 the current amount, we wouldn't be asking for a loan. We make enough in 30 days to cover our expenses - but we don't have 30 days until we need to PLEX up.
We don't need infinite growth, we need to expand by about 40% to cover the 2.4B interest and 5B in PLEX - and tripling our working capital and getting to PE V would almost certainly allow us to do so.
We don't deal in any particular market, we deal in all markets that are profitable - and there are many.
There's money to be had. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
207
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Posted - 2012.02.28 16:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote: 5B in PLEX.)
As been asked before , 5B = 10 plex = 10 accounts . So your brother , you and 10 alts .. now why doesn't this add up?
And IF you are so profitable offcourse you set isk aside for the plex of your own and your brothers acccount .. so we r talking bout the 10 alts then.
Either you are trying to scam or that huge profit you have is not that huge after all or you just fail at rightly managing your isk for what has priority . |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
149
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Posted - 2012.02.28 17:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think you managed to convince me this is a scam in your last post. On the oddball chance you are legit I'll tell you why:
Aurel Svenson wrote:I'm not entirely sure why you guys don't understand this: we are profitable.
Emotional appeal -> sounds like goading "you guys are smarter than this come on give us money"
Aurel Svenson wrote:There's money to be had.
More of the same -> Emotional appeal, trying to goad the investor, rather than convince through a rational argument.
Aurel Svenson wrote:We don't deal in any particular market, we deal in all markets that are profitable - and there are many.
Make that three -> Guys markets are profitable we know them you'll get rich easy!
Aurel Svenson wrote:If PLEX came in 3 day quantities at 1/10 the current amount, we wouldn't be asking for a loan. We make enough in 30 days to cover our expenses - but we don't have 30 days until we need to PLEX up.
This is actually a plausible argument. until...
Aurel Svenson wrote:We don't need infinite growth, we need to expand by about 60% to cover the 2.4B interest and 5B in PLEX - and tripling our working capital and getting to PE V would almost certainly allow us to do so.
This hits. 10 accounts? Pay 8 billion most of which will be gone within days (to plex) and the rest goes to interest payments? Let me see...
You get 8 billion
in 3 days you pay 5 billion in plex
Lets be generous, say you have 1 billion in own assets.
so you have ... 8 - 5 + 1 total: 4 billion from which you would need to generate 5 billion in a month to be back where you started, or 7.4 billion to pay the interest and have the seed capital you would have now... 4 billion -> 11.4 billion in one month with suboptimal manufacturing skills while pushing a market? I'm not convinced.
There is good news for you though here it is:
If things are as good as you say they are, you don't need investors. You just need time and alts. With enough time and enough alts you will eventually be able to start to afford to plex some of your accounts which will then become more valuable which in turn allow you to fulfill your dreams...
Good luck. I keep my iskies though. |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Not trying to goad, I'm a little frustrated being told I'm not earning money when I'm running a profitable venture. I really hate being told by people I can't do something they know little about.
I would offer details, but advertising my business strategy to people who are certainly *not* going to give me a loan doesn't seem wise. (Actually, someone expressed an actual interest in offering me a loan and I gave him details.)
Let's try the math again. I get 8 billion, pay 5 billion in PLEX. We have over 3 billion right now and the loan would boost that up to 6. Several characters have optimal manufacturing skills, the rest will in very short order. Our profit margin on 50 of our manufacturing slots will increase by about a third, and we'll also have them full much more often (probably 24 hours a day). I have little doubt we'll be able to pay back the loan with the interest, though another, smaller loan might be required to keep the PLEX flowing without damaging our capital (but I'm guessing I can get the first lender to lend a smaller amount a second time after being paid back properly the first).
I'm not desperate for investors. If I can't get a loan, I'll PLEX 3 of the clones and leave the rest to die, and we'll move on. Would be awful nice to continue growing at a rapid rate, though. We lose, and could've-been investors lose. |
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israus
Tillistrian Enterprises The Methodical Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 07:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
see the reason people are questioning your credabity in my opinion is this. I run a production char on the side for cash. now I like most people like to keep a stock pile of mats at station to make sure I can keep production going. now I only manage to keep 3-4 days on station at a time right now. but even that is 2-3 billion in production mats, then theres the assests i'm selling currently about 1-1.5 billion
so with you have 10 accounts in production you should have i'd say atleast 10 billion in mats for production in your assest and atleast a couple of billion in assests to be sold.
so my question is why if you are a producer who is profitable why havent you just liquated some of your assests to cover your plexs |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
208
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Posted - 2012.02.29 07:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote: I have little doubt we'll be able to pay back the loan with the interest, though another, smaller loan might be required to keep the PLEX flowing without damaging our capital .
Come on you need plex for 10 accounts and at the end of the line there is a change you might need a loan again for plex .... stop shouting how much isk you can make with it because there is a reason people are saying they think it is not as shiny as it is.It's because you can not even afford the basic , wich is to pay a plex for your main account as that one is also calculated in the 10 plex's.
Also with this you will loose more then half of the investment in non-resellable stuff.So people loan you 8 B , and immediatly 5B of that will vanish in thin air making it impossible to even repay the basic loan in the worst case scenario ... i for one would not loan one isk to this.Be it with an honest idea set up or not. |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 11:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
israus wrote:see the reason people are questioning your credabity in my opinion is this. I run a production char on the side for cash. now I like most people like to keep a stock pile of mats at station to make sure I can keep production going. now I only manage to keep 3-4 days on station at a time right now. but even that is 2-3 billion in production mats, then theres the assests i'm selling currently about 1-1.5 billion
so with you have 10 accounts in production you should have i'd say atleast 10 billion in mats for production in your assest and atleast a couple of billion in assests to be sold.
so my question is why if you are a producer who is profitable why havent you just liquated some of your assests to cover your plexs
I don't keep 3-4 days at a time. My daily turnover is higher than my total assets.
flakeys wrote:Come on you need plex for 10 accounts and at the end of the line there is a change you might need a loan again for plex .... stop shouting how much isk you can make with it because there is a reason people are saying they think it is not as shiny as it is.It's because you can not even afford the basic , wich is to pay a plex for your main account as that one is also calculated in the 10 plex's.
Also with this you will loose more then half of the investment in non-resellable stuff.So people loan you 8 B , and immediatly 5B of that will vanish in thin air making it impossible to even repay the basic loan in the worst case scenario ... i for one would not loan one isk to this.Be it with an honest idea set up or not.
There's no mention of PLEXing my main account because I'm intending to pay for it with cash due to a personal philosophy.
Possibly needing a second loan at the end isn't the same as losing money, it's that I'm sure I can turn 6B into 13.2B but that I'm not sure I can turn it into 18.2B (the savvy among you will note that 13.2B leaves me right where I am now with 3B assets, but I will have much better skills; I expect it to be higher than this, though.)
5 billion does not "vanish" - it's turned into manufacturing capability. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
150
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Posted - 2012.02.29 11:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:Not trying to goad, I'm a little frustrated being told I'm not earning money when I'm running a profitable venture. I really hate being told by people I can't do something they know little about.
Here you go again.
I know - You guys don't know.
The moment you accept that some people other than yourself might know what they are talking about, you'll immensely increase your chances of finding partners.
You are not looking for partners right now - you are looking for open wallets. Without questioning whether or not it's legit you have to realise that it's exactly the same thing many scammers do - hence, it looks like a scam.
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israus
Tillistrian Enterprises The Methodical Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.02.29 12:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:
I don't keep 3-4 days at a time. My daily turnover is higher than my total assets.
thats impossible if you have production running on 10 accounts enough to make plex money for a month you should have atleast 20 billion in BPOs
and if you can make 8 bil in a month then your going to have to make 260 mil profit a day so eve assuming a 10% profit thats going to be 2.6 billion in ore and mats you need to keep on site for production. and since you arent going to be able to sell the stuff you make straight away it'll take a day or 2 to shift stock your going to need to keep atleast 1-2 days worth of mates in order to keep production going.
there is no way you have built up a production empire with 10 accounts without having enough assests for to cover a days turn over.
every answer you come out with just show's you've got less and less knowledge of production and show's your nothing but a really poor scammer |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 15:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cyniac wrote:Aurel Svenson wrote:Not trying to goad, I'm a little frustrated being told I'm not earning money when I'm running a profitable venture. I really hate being told by people I can't do something they know little about. Here you go again. I know - You guys don't know. The moment you accept that some people other than yourself might know what they are talking about, you'll immensely increase your chances of finding partners. You are not looking for partners right now - you are looking for open wallets. Without questioning whether or not it's legit you have to realise that it's exactly the same thing many scammers do - hence, it looks like a scam.
The moment someone accepts that I *might* know what I'm talking about I'll be glad to prove it. I would love a partner, which is why I took up Brandon's offer to talk where he did provide some insight. So in this thread I've sought advice from 100% of the people not openly hostile.
Quote:thats impossible if you have production running on 10 accounts enough to make plex money for a month you should have atleast 20 billion in BPOs
and if you can make 8 bil in a month then your going to have to make 260 mil profit a day so eve assuming a 10% profit thats going to be 2.6 billion in ore and mats you need to keep on site for production. and since you arent going to be able to sell the stuff you make straight away it'll take a day or 2 to shift stock your going to need to keep atleast 1-2 days worth of mates in order to keep production going.
there is no way you have built up a production empire with 10 accounts without having enough assests for to cover a days turn over.
every answer you come out with just show's you've got less and less knowledge of production and show's your nothing but a really poor scammer You're not a very good manufacturer if you believe the first part, and certainly don't know the rig market.
As to the second part, we generally move stock in a few hours as we target high movement markets. We're looking for a situation where we have 6 billion ISK of mats and stuff for sale, hoping to be able to actually have extra mats on hand for once. As it stands, we buy mats as quickly as possible, immediately turn them into finished goods (and rigs build quickly) and sell them at a rapid rate.
The clones start dying in about 12 hours, but I guess there's nothing to be done for it. Thanks to you, Brandon, but the rest of you are pricks. |
Fraszoid
Shaytan Combine
2
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm interested in seeing how this works. Tell me about it and I'll see if I can get some investors for you. I also need financial projections and wallet logs so I can do up some financial statements. Things are better when back with hard evidence and proof of what you say. |
israus
Tillistrian Enterprises The Methodical Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:[ You're not a very good manufacturer if you believe the first part, and certainly don't know the rig market.
As to the second part, we generally move stock in a few hours as we target high movement markets. We're looking for a situation where we have 6 billion ISK of mats and stuff for sale, hoping to be able to actually have extra mats on hand for once. As it stands, we buy mats as quickly as possible, immediately turn them into finished goods (and rigs build quickly) and sell them at a rapid rate.
The clones start dying in about 12 hours, but I guess there's nothing to be done for it. Thanks to you, Brandon, but the rest of you are pricks. (Actually, I think Cyniac may be an exception. He was fairly neutral and I admit, it does look like a scam but I can't figure out how to prove I'm legitimate without getting a loan.)
If anyone at all is inclined to help, I would really appreciate it. If you think I'm crazy for wanting to spend billions on PLEX I'd be happy to earmark loans for operations instead of clone life extension. If what's stopping you is the economics, I can show you how our system works and what we're planning to do next.
so any one day you've got 6 billion in assests so you can get cash from there. see if you'd been smart you'd have 9 alts using 3 accounts for this scheme so you plex overhead isn't 5 billion a month.
also i'm not sure you could make the money your taking about from the rig market. rig bpo's are extremely cheap meaning level of entry for players is real small. so you dont get a 10 % margin you'd be lucky to get 2-3% in that envorment
like Fraszoid having facts and figures to back up your claims helps problem is you've not shown any just made vague claims about profits and projections |
Aurel Svenson
AurelCorp Amalgamated One Stop Research
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
We have 3 billion right now, with the ideal loan of 8B, we'd have 6B in working capital after investing 5M into manufacturing capacity by PLEXing the clones.
It takes 3x as long to train 3 alts per account. Growth from improved manufacturing capacity appears to be worth enough to justify separate accounts - if only we could buy 3 day PLEX.
One thing about rigs is that you can make a lot of rigs. And a lot of different types of rigs.
Too much stock is put in BPOs.
If you're serious, I've got spreadsheets of data for you. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
209
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote: but the rest of you are pricks.
So because people have questions about if or why they should loan isk to a stranger without having ANY guarantee on getting it back they are pricks.Nice attitude you got there , sure to get you further on your loan request.
It allways leaves me amazed when the person who is ''begging for isk'' from complete strangers is the one who starts name calling like a spoiled bratt when he doesn't get it.YOU are the one who came in here to ask people for isk , if you can't handle some questions/concerns and people disagreeing with your viewpoint then arrange youw own isk. |
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