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Buying ISK for real world money is bad! New Dev Blog by Grimmi

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Author	Topic
What'hat	Posted - 2008.04.09 19:47:00 - [91] Originally by: Lance85 Originally by: CCP Wrangler Our very own Customer Service team has written a blog to inform you all about the Secure ETC Trading System and why it should be used. They+re also informing you of some things you might not have been aware of when it comes to Real Money Trading (RMT) like the fact the people you buy from will steal your credit card information if they get the chance, and ISK sellers are also behind macro mining and other things none of us wish to see in EVE. Pleas read Real Money Trading is bad, mkay? to get the full story! I take tremendous offence to the imputation that I (a mission runner) am in anyway associated with isk sellers. If anything you should be looking towards the people who use probes to get in to our missions and steal our wrecks and loot. EPIC fail... of course ordinary mission runners isn't a problem... think! He's talking about a macro missioning... Read the thread before posting, your answer is in post 7...
Talos Darkhart Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:07:00 - [92] Originally by: Reptzo Edited by: Reptzo on 09/04/2008 00:31:16 Originally by: Blazde Any chance of someone expanding on this, I simply doesn't understand the (implied) economic argument behind it: Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. In other words, $5000 will buy and outfit a titan (via buying isk from websites). Some people really have this kind of cash to throw around on a game. That same amount of dollars will buy you significantly less via GTC (less than half the isk amount due to recent GTC value crash). The other problem being that you cant just buy 1000 GTCs and sell them instantly. There has to be people wanting to buy them, and it will take quite a while. So yes it can still be done, and yes there are plenty of people with the real life means to buy 1000 GTCs. It is simply a lot harder for them to turn real $$$ into game money via GTC, as apposed to buying it from farmers. And, the buying of GTCs has a similar but different effect on the economy, it still enables those with real cash, but increases subscriptions. And there are many good threads about the effects and differences so I'm not going to delve into that argument. All though there is certain situations where there are ways around this say you have alliance/corp A they farm moons make lot's of iskies and buy GTC from forums they then contact another alliance with conections to a etc trade website or a etc seller directly and offer to sell them the etc's at a lower price than CCP supplies them for they get real money and the etc seller makes more profit. Now this could not happen could it?
Arlon Magistar	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:07:00 - [93] It occurs to me that there are some legitimate concerns in here, and also some outright whining. Perhaps my two cents' worth will help somewhat. First and foremost: YES, any form of converting RL cash to ISK is inherently bad. Okay, point conceded. HOWEVER -- the fact is, it IS going to happen. Legally or otherwise, players are going to buy ISK to get ahead quick. What CCP is doing with the Secure ETC system is reducing the impact in-game by allowing a legal outlet to do so at greatly reduced profit. It may not be a popular idea with some players but it does stem the tide somewhat, and in the process provides an influx of cash to CCP to continue development of the game. Second, there really does need to be something done about all these bloody macro miners/macro missioners that fund the ISK sellers. Not just in 0.0, either --- the things are prolific in high-sec as well, to the point that HONEST miners have to haul through stargates if we want to find belts worth mining. As a suggestion for #2 --- while the macros themselves may be difficult to detect, their effects in-game are much less so. After all, macro runners typically stay AFK while doing their thing, so an auto-timer to detect long periods afk would effectively cripple the process. It's not very good for legitimate players afk-mining, but it would serve the purpose until a better solution could be formed. Thirdly, punishment for offenders --- as much as I hate to say this, the only effective one I can see is IP-banning of repeat offenders. If an IP has more than X number of accounts deleted/banned in Y amount of time, ban it. (More than one person in the same house playing EVE? Too bad. Educate your friends on the dangers of selling ISK and ruining everyone else's game for them. Police your own network; kick your isk-selling friend off the router before you ALL get banned. It's brutal, yes, but it will work.) Think I'm too harsh? Go play a game like Neveron, where cash-for-rewards has completely ruined what began as a good game. If you don't spend massive amoounts of RL cash on the otherwise-"free" game, you get pwned by everyone who does. CCP's system works a whole lot better, trust me. OK, I'm shutting up now. I'm logged in as I write this, bellied up to a CONCORD billboard at a stargate, and I have lots of mining to do if I want my new battleship so I better get back to PLAYING THE GAME. Cheers.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:12:00 - [94] Originally by: Thathys Buying secure ETC codes for selling,isn't that Isk selling? Players can still buy as much Isk as i want from CCP,if they have enough dollars!? Shouldn't there be a limit to how much you can buy? Maby i'm stupid! correct me if i have understood wrong. :) You're not buying it from CCP. ISK purchased from the secure GTC site comes from a player. They have to get it through the same means you do, odds are they simply have more time to do it. If CCP just "printed" ISK the economy would take a dive in a hurry. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Floresa	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:13:00 - [95] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Make an in-game system where you DIRECTLY transfer ISK to CCP and CCP directly adds game time to your account. Period. If your account as expired, then allow a web based interface to accomplish the exact same thing. You weren't a finance major, were you? All that would do is cut their revenue by some large percentage, probably to the point where it's not even profitable to keep the servers running. Great suggestion.
Khan Rean	Posted - 2008.04.09 20:42:00 - [96] i think the best way to deal with isk sellers and macrominers is still to hunt them down and pod them until they give up
Wyn Pharoh Gallente Venture Capital Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.04.09 21:25:00 - [97] Well Im certainly of the opinion Secure GTC transactions for ISK is a fantastic phenom. I work hard to earn my ISK to afford my gameplay and would never have opted out of the MMO's that I played previously had this potential not been part of the ingame dynamic. I CAME to this game because my ingame experience would allow me to afford to play without having to accept all sorts of shady consequences. From an economics perspective, I also believe that this system is really on target! The only way to combat black markets is through removing them with legitimization and or outright hostile takeover. Other MMO's actions to date only increase the profitability of their black markets, because any markets' profitability ALWAYS IMPROVES by the restriction of supply. At the same time, there will alway be demand, period, for any type of advantage that is humanly concievable. Part of the human condition, as it where and a fact of life that is simply unavoidable. Just spend some time examining narcoprofiteering in the real world, and you too will realize that the harder you attempt to control any particular market or commodity, the greater the attraction to exploitation of said market or commodity becomes. Short of invading [insert EVERY developing nation here], lining up and shooting ALL the ISK farmers worldwide in RL, these "problems" will be a fact of life no differently than opiom, coca or epehdra farmers are in RL. To be honest though, within days, even this solution would be compromised by the suddenly drastic supply condition, and a whole new generation of farmers would emerge, ones who factored the cost of guns and ammunition into the suddenly inflated prices of black market ISK. CCP IS WAY AHEAD of the game here, as usual. Lets hope they invest that RL$ for ISK that comes their way via Secure ETC in ways that continue to impress. Smash the State...and Have A Nice Day!!!
Almente	Posted - 2008.04.09 21:50:00 - [98] Ok, allow me to ask you something... For a very long period of time some allies selling isks, capital ships and T2 BPO for ally members, it is go for ages now (selling for $). It is started at the end of 2003 - begging of 2004. Did you ban even single person for this? As long as I know (and I know about it since end of 2003) - no. So... nice thread, but 100% non actual for real isk sellers, who is smiling now. They do not spam in local or by mail system, they just sell it to ally members. And then you do a petition about it - you answer is very simple "we are bounded, because we don't have enough proofs", you are joking, right? . And you are really afraid of they unban petitions, because they know how to hide it well enough And I don't even want to talk about selling characters for $, you ban em for a week and right after you unbun em with excuses and you add 10 extra day to they account. GM Grimmi, do you really think eve players are stupid and would believe in justice in EVE? Do you think you are doing your best to improve game performance, then to improve CCP income? P.S. Sorry, had to write with an alt, prooly it will help, but I do know, some of the sellers has good friends between GM's
Harah Parahtesteez	Posted - 2008.04.09 22:16:00 - [99] Some of you guys take this game waaay to serious. I ETC once in a while for the simple fact that I can't sit around staring at rocks all day. My job is boring enough in real life, I just wanna pew pew a little and have FUN! CCP is doing a decent (not perfect) job of filtering the channels. Just a goofy idea but is there a way CCP can give everyone a farmer hunting permit for one day to see if it even affects the market. Maybe to see the impact it makes on the game? PVM?
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.09 22:23:00 - [100] Originally by: Moostang Originally by: CCP Wrangler Help us raise awareness about this whole issue and together we can change the world of EVE for the better! Do something about the re-tar-ded log off tactics and we can help you alot more. It is too easy for farmers to simply CTRL-Q to evade hostiles. Logging out of the game in hostile territory should NEVER BE A WAY OUT OF A FIGHT! I agree completely.... Not only for farmers, but also certain other groups known for logoffski'ing to avoid fights My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.

Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:27:00 - [101] Originally by: Reptzo Edited by: Reptzo on 09/04/2008 00:31:16 Originally by: Blazde Any chance of someone expanding on this, I simply doesn't understand the (implied) economic argument behind it: Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. In other words, $5000 will buy and outfit a titan (via buying isk from websites). Some people really have this kind of cash to throw around on a game. That same amount of dollars will buy you significantly less via GTC (less than half the isk amount due to recent GTC value crash). The other problem being that you cant just buy 1000 GTCs and sell them instantly. There has to be people wanting to buy them, and it will take quite a while. So yes it can still be done, and yes there are plenty of people with the real life means to buy 1000 GTCs. It is simply a lot harder for them to turn real $$$ into game money via GTC, as apposed to buying it from farmers. In other words the statement in bold from the devblog is completely false? It's merely a bit more pricey than doing it illegally, and takes a bit longer. I've watched people buying titanesque numbers of GTC and sell them in a few days. Not as easy as dialing 1800-ISKPLS I'll admit but it does have the benefit of being a lot safer. I don't mind if CCP want to allow GTC trading, it's their game. I personally wouldn't, but it's not my choice. What I do have a problem with is the dishonesty (or ignorance) about the real effects of such a descion. People buy titans with real life money via the GTC system. Fact. People fuel wars with real life money via the GTC system. Fact. Game balance is affected by the GTC trading system. Fact. Devs being upfront and open with players is one of the things that first attracted me to this game. Fortunately it seems a GM wrote this misguided paragraph not a dev so hopefully all is still well. _
Comproller	Posted - 2008.04.09 23:28:00 - [102] I think it is great that CCP is going to do something about Macro Farmers and Macro Mission People.. they dont deserve to be involved with people who play for the fun and the challenge of Eve. Eve is so open to everyone and all you need is to get passed the learning curve and you can make it in the game the legit way. by running missions , minning and salvaging. ive been setting my schedule to all of these options.... Thanks for creating a kick ass game CCP..
Zoltar Torzoid Gallente Swag Co. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.04.10 01:13:00 - [103] Edited by: Zoltar Torzoid on 10/04/2008 01:13:20 That's all fine and good, but what is CCP intending to actually do about macro-farmers? In my current home area in game I can sit on a gate and watch macro, after macro, after macro fly by running stupid little hauler missions. There are so many of them that it's become a waste of effort, and actually a potential threat to the health of the normal players to try to kill them all on gates. Taking gate fire just to kill a bunch of haulers with cattle in them isn't exactly the ideal way of getting rid of the problem. I've personally petitioned one of the systems I frequent that can have 10+ macro-characters at any given moment. I'll believe CCP cares about killing this problem when I seem them actually doing something about it other than asking us to stop buying isk. I'd petition each and every macro-character I see, but then all I'd ever do is petition. Maybe I should spend about 3 days petitioning macro-characters and CCP will get fed up with me calling them out and get rid of them. -Zoltar We Build the Stuff You Steal
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.10 01:14:00 - [104] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: GM Krymus Originally by: Xaen I'll take things like this seriously when the ISK channel and EVEMail spam cease. There's no reason CCP can't stop it entirely with a mere bayesian filter on chat and EVE mail, but they seem to think it's too hard, so don't even try. If Google can do it for all of Gmail without perceivable slowdown of mail delivery, surely CCP can do it for a tiny fraction of the number of accounts and messages that comprises TQ. I'm tired of the excuses. Reporting sellers is a waste of my time, they'll be back on a new account in less time than it takes me to report them. I completely understand your concerns with regards to this. You may or may not have noticed the dramatic reduction in spam since the deployment of Trinity 1.1, in which a large number of features (as mentioned in the dev blog) were introduced. I agree that if any spam is able to get through (which, unfortunately, some still does) then there is room for improvement. Please be assured that we will continue to work on developing tools to prevent spam from reaching players. I haven't noticed a difference. My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone? And Xaen still gets 2-3 evemail spams a week, same as before. Most of what I see is so obviously ISK spam that any halfassed bayesian filter would nail it in a heartbeat. But you're not using one. Without giving away circumvention techniques, is there any way to describe what was actually done? I hope it wasn't some stopgap measure like banning accounts. That's like trying to fight a flood with a stick. I petitioned an isk spammer I saw when I first logged in. Over an hour later, SWA's corp channel has only had the usual random chatter.
Achurnin	Posted - 2008.04.10 02:24:00 - [105] Edited by: Achurnin on 10/04/2008 02:25:20 Ah, I don't have much to say about any of the above listed except ... if it's the macros that are giving the problem (ie ... large quantities of isk and items for RM purchases) then keep an eye out for the macros. Boot em, disrupt their business. As for game play, I've noticed that every game most items for sale that are worth anything are almost always overpriced. I think it was said, "that RM transfers cause the prices to go down." If this is the case, then we should buy up some isk, because it's very hard for a new player to get started to do anything. Was looking at an inventory list of items needed to create a low level rig, and even though I've salvaged 95% of my mission debree, I don't have enough to make a single item that I needed. Of course they are for sale, but if I chose to spend the 10m isk it cost for the 40-50 of each salvage item type needed, I'd almost have bought one and saved the trouble of making it. I like the game, but isk is a big problem for a new player in the 'developed' universe of Eve. Just my take, no attitude intended.
Zetjur Jilnou Rapid Deployment Industries	Posted - 2008.04.10 02:38:00 - [106] Originally by: Xaen [Just in case you missed it, or they read your post, here's some greped out of my corplog with this little regex: "\\$.[0-9]m\\|[0-9]m.\\$" [ 2008.04.05 21:10:00 ] a8xwce > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.05 21:10:06 ] a8xwce > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.05 21:10:49 ] a8xwce > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.05 21:13:00 ] a8xwce > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:35:02 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:35:41 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:36:08 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:36:44 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:37:24 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:38:21 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:39:15 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:39:39 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:40:22 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:41:08 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:43:35 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:44:14 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:49:10 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+7%Free=$1723000M+7%Free=$2065000M+8%Free=$344www[snip]com [ 2008.04.06 23:49:51 ] z68xdh > www[snip]com 100M+6%Free= $6.991000M+6%Free=$691500M+6%Free=103 ISK and ITEMS2000M+7%Free=$1392500M+ See the timestamps? Wait, you are claiming that that (2 different sellers two hours apart) is as much as it used to be? Dear lord, you truly are challenged. Every rookie system, every help/trade channel was hit every 10-15 minutes until 1.1, hardly any these days. I take it you didn't bother to report the seller, judging by the way it was there for 15 minutes.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.10 02:59:00 - [107] I seriously think that GTCs are widely used by all the macro farmers with old character. I think that over the past year I have noticed a significant increase in the number of old (3+ month) noob corp isk farmers. If you think about it logically, the people who want to sell isk for real money aren't interested in paying real money for their EVE accounts. Before GTCs, they restricted themselves to trial accounts. With GTC option, they can channel some of their farmed ISK into paying for their legal game accounts. In a sense, those isk farmers take another player's money (in form of GTC) and give him the isk. EVE is setup in such a way that older characters - ones that can fly battleships, have much greater opportunity to make lots of isk. Raven battleship happens to have the lowest skill requirement plus extremely versatile for NPC farming. That explains why virtually all 0.0 noob corp NPC farmers fly Ravens. The bottom line is, while GTCs introduce competetion to isk farmer service, lowering price of isk, they also ENCOURAGE isk farmers to get more skilled characters that are able to farm isk much faster than 2 week trial accounts.
Max Kolonko Caldari Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.04.10 05:10:00 - [108] CCP - allow us to use this "safe ETC trade" with automatic purchase option, so we can buy gametime code directly in there and dont have to look for it in some remote stores (and hope its not a scam) this way if you want to trade for isk, or just pay for someone character play-time you can do it faster Max Kolonko
Moostang DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.10 05:14:00 - [109] Originally by: Tzrailasa Originally by: Moostang Originally by: CCP Wrangler Help us raise awareness about this whole issue and together we can change the world of EVE for the better! Do something about the re-tar-ded log off tactics and we can help you alot more. It is too easy for farmers to simply CTRL-Q to evade hostiles. Logging out of the game in hostile territory should NEVER BE A WAY OUT OF A FIGHT! I agree completely.... Not only for farmers, but also certain other groups known for logoffski'ing to avoid fights I totally agree. I have never nor will I ever log off to avoid a fight. I personally believe that logging off should be a process and that there ONLY be 2 ways to insta log. a) log off in a station b) click log off, wait for a shown log off timer to expire, set at say 2 or 5 minutes, then it will insta log. With this, if you just ctrl q your ship will stay in game for 15 minutes, which is the same amount as the agro timer keeps you in game. Moostang Darkstar 1 Goonswarm Priceless Necro Thread
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2008.04.10 05:59:00 - [110] Originally by: Moostang I totally agree. I have never nor will I ever log off to avoid a fight. I personally believe that logging off should be a process and that there ONLY be 2 ways to insta log. a) log off in a station b) click log off, wait for a shown log off timer to expire, set at say 2 or 5 minutes, then it will insta log. With this, if you just ctrl q your ship will stay in game for 15 minutes, which is the same amount as the agro timer keeps you in game. off topic but also seconded. I still think the best way to do this will be in ccp's current plans to remove local so macro's can't tell instantly when they are about to be jumped... just make sure they can't just leave a noob alt perma scanning the gate to tell the other accounts when to log off.

Kydra	Posted - 2008.04.10 06:02:00 - [111] Edited by: Kydra on 10/04/2008 06:04:29 Hi there Everyone! =) Originally by: Z010 Originally by: Kayscha This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount. Hardly that. In one sense, and one sense only are they the same. People with cash can buy isk. However, the cash is going into the game (i.e. CCP) and this assists further development of the game. For the seller the isk is used to speed up a process in the game. When it is not ETC the cash goes to a person/people with no interest in EvE other than to make real money from players. Personally - I have sold GTC via the ETC interface. It is simple, and it is dangerous - in that it can become an addiction - why mine that belt for XXX hours/days when you can sell a GTC and go buy your new EvE gadget, blueprint, etc.. However, I also admit that it has kept me in the game - if I had had to earn all the isk I needed to get my first eve commerce activity going I would have left the game. Eve requires a vision and time, but that is not always "fun". On the otherhand - eventually I hope to buy GTC regularly with the isk I am finally starting to make from these ventures. First I need to get my jump freighter built - about 40% there. I agree with Z010 in many ways, up to and including the fact that ETC selling has kept me playing EVE. Through the sale of a few ETCs I have been able to persue my EVE visions. I've loved every minute of playing EVE since. I don't have the time in my life to play the hours necessary to generate the funds I need to make my little dreams come true. Being stuck with characters that can do amazing things but lacking the funds to persue those dreams is very frustrating. I used to seduce my boyfriend giggles =) for money to do the things I wanted to do. Now I have the freedom to safely and securely do them myself, without resorting to the leather. LOL =) I understand and even envy those that have the capability to play EVE for all the hours that it takes to make the serious money that it takes to do some things. I understand that they may be frustrated with those of us who take the short route. But in the end, it is my belief that having fun with EVE is the goal of CCP for all real players. Does the trade of ETCs really impact on your ability to have fun in the game? All in all, I believe that CCP is doing a wonderful job. I also believe that, no matter what anyone says, they have their customers interests at heart, if only because keeping your customers happy is in the interest of higher profit margins. They must be successful because when I log in, they consistantly show 20,000 to 40,000 players online. People must be happy or they wouldn't be playing the game. Anyway, cheers to CCP and all they are doing for us! Thank you, Kydra
namebee	Posted - 2008.04.10 06:37:00 - [112] I have the ISK but not know to how trade?
namebee	Posted - 2008.04.10 06:39:00 - [113] Who the demand ISK can contact me!
Massage Lady	Posted - 2008.04.10 07:12:00 - [114] If we dob in people who we know have used illegal means to obtain isk - is there a reward (ie some of their isk, or other assets siezed, etc) if there is, then expect a big helping hand, otherwise CCP... you're own your own :)
TeknoRob Plus	Posted - 2008.04.10 07:53:00 - [115] Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou Edited by: Zetjur Jilnou on 08/04/2008 14:11:35 Originally by: Kayscha This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount. CCP gains in the short run by saturating this intermediate market with its 'currency', namely time cards. Players might profit in the long run by effectively having reduced monthly costs for playing, possibly with the futher incentive to have more players willing to spend those reduced fees, increasing EVE player base. Is this worth the trade-off? I don't know. What I object to is the fact that CCP will not state the issue as it clearly is. Damn this board, BTW, had a really good answer typed and I just got a blank screen and all my hard work gone :( If you can't completely prevent RMT, what's so bad about having RMT in a way that stops most of the negative aspects - the farming, the hacking and so on? Nothing wrong with that, except the cost for ISK will go up heaps and ccp will maintain profits because of the GTC purchases... If CCP are all for RMT in a secure manner, why not allow traders to become "CCP certified" through thorough testing at the expense of the sellers? This whole section of eve is a bit.. iffy _ Wanted: Schr÷dinger's cat Dead AND Alive
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.10 08:38:00 - [116] Anything done to impede the progress of macro-activities and RMT is a good thing. I am doubtful about the effect of the player base's help however. I remember mining in Oremmulf a while back, where six macrominers were at work 23/7. Mining there myself, I gathered intel on them for about three months to make sure which were real macrominers and finally filed a petition with a detailed summary of the information I had. I got an answer alright, but only one of those prewritten "dummy" messages saying "we're doing all we can, thank you very much". And what's more, all those miners continued crunching away at the belts unhampered. Disgusted, I moved to a new belt way out there to finally have some peace. If CCP does not take my help seriously, I don't see how I can help in the first place. So all this fuss now about RMT makes me want to see some tangible effects before I even consider helping again, even if the spam filters seem to be working okay. -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies
Excetra Minmatar Royal Assassins	Posted - 2008.04.10 09:44:00 - [117] Edited by: Excetra on 10/04/2008 09:48:38 Originally by: Eleana Tomelac I have a question about buying ETC/GTCs... I noticed the lack of french resellers, even if the sinclair site has a french version, half the labels are in german, I just can't catch a word of german... Same for other countries of EU... Many english speaking sites that end all being from north america... So, any plans on more local resellers or should we buy from the eve-online official shop? Any resellers that sell GTCs in stores and not just online? All this is not so important, but when I have newbies asking me about GTCs in my corp and searching for the best way to buy in france, I don't know what's the best to answer, and for those without a credit card, having some physical stores selling GTCs would help them greatly. try it here? http://www.evetimecode.com all u need or best u could use for this is PayPal. its easy and fast. u will get the codes in like under 5 minutes. first time they will actually call u though to verify that u did ordered it and after that ur in their database and it wont take more than 5 minutes [usually 1-2 mins.] oh and FIY, this site is linked to the EVE official website so its not 100% riskfree just cus I say so and have experience with, but also CCP trusts it since it has it linked on their site. E. -------------------------------------------
Digital Anarchist Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.10 10:29:00 - [118] One thing not mentioned here is that isk selling does not affect all players equally. And in fact, some forms of "unfair play" counter each other. Macro mining makes (low end) minerals cheaper. This is good for pvpers and manufacturers, as their costs tend to decrease. On the other hand, macro NPC-ing increases the supply of isk, which tends to create inflation, but also increases the supply of faction items. I'm not buying the argument that players are harmed in particular. That's because nobody is compelled to pursue a certain playstyle. So if macro miners are ruining one's AFK mining operation, he can pursue other activities. It is also an incentive for CCP to make the game more varied and to steer it toward areas not easily replicated by macro-automatons or enjoyed by farmers. But the main point I see to CCP's side in banning some forms of RMT is self-protection from tax authorities. So long as CCP holds such a policy, there is less of a risk of governments encroaching on the rights of Eve players; or regulating the activity of CCP. This is a policy I can support and understand. ------------------------ This space for rent
Haemis	Posted - 2008.04.10 11:33:00 - [119] Problem with IP banning is that not every ISP gives susbcribers permanant IP addresses. Also when 3G / HSDPA network finally gets up to speed the networks only have a finite pool of IP address to allocate. If i was to run EVE over orangeinternet (Orange UK Public APN) there are only so many IP's available. If a user does not pass traffic for 3 minutes the network begins to tare down the session and the IP alocated to the device as well as the one allocated on the internet facing part of the network will be taken back and placed back into the pool and they would be picked up by another user. When the user re-established a new PDP connection they would be allocated another IP address from the pool
jinius	Posted - 2008.04.10 12:15:00 - [120] i bought isk and now am neg over 300 mil, my fault of course should have read into it before i did it, but if i would have known about the whole gtc thing i would have gladly done that instead, now i can't even sell of items too make up for the money, really would have been nice if this would have been brought to light a long time ago.

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