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CCP Wrangler
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:27:00 -
[1]
Our very own Customer Service team has written a blog to inform you all about the Secure ETC Trading System and why it should be used. They+re also informing you of some things you might not have been aware of when it comes to Real Money Trading (RMT) like the fact the people you buy from will steal your credit card information if they get the chance, and ISK sellers are also behind macro mining and other things none of us wish to see in EVE. Pleas read Real Money Trade is bad, mkay? to get the full story!
Wrangler
Community Manager
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang
Hug-A-Wrangler! FanFest 2008
"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." |
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:02:00 -
[2]
Just like eon and eve-pirate adds on the EVE client login, this devblog should be advertised at logon too.
Ignorance is not an excuse, but it is a factor when people want to buy isk. Education is a good weapon against RMT.
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The Angels Have the Phone Box |
SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:13:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
There are also the macro miners and mission runners, complex farmers and assorted rabble of this sort that causes general nuisance ...
I like running missions and I take offence if you compare/associate me(/our corp/other players who like that kind of gameplay) with Real Money Trading. It's annoying enough to see the spam for it in local, without this particular sentence in a Dev Blog...
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Bartholomeus Crane
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:20:00 -
[4]
I'm somewhat offended to be called assorted rabble simply because I like doing the PvE content of EvE!
Surely this can't be what you mean?
If not, an apology would be appropriate ...
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Mereden
Ceptacemia
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:23:00 -
[5]
Um, I read it as macro miners and (macro) mission runners. I don't think CCP are likely to be slamming people for using the content they created 
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Miranda Duvall
Khaos Tech
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SillyWaif
Quote:
There are also the macro miners and mission runners, complex farmers and assorted rabble of this sort that causes general nuisance ...
I like running missions and I take offence if you compare/associate me(/our corp/other players who like that kind of gameplay) with Real Money Trading. It's annoying enough to see the spam for it in local, without this particular sentence in a Dev Blog...
I assume they mean to say macro miners and MACRO mission runners (yes they do exist!).
My Skills -Invention HowTo |
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GM Grimmi
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: GM Grimmi on 08/04/2008 13:25:52
Hi,
Macro-mission runners is exactly what I mean. Sorry for the mix-up :)
GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Silverace
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:30:00 -
[8]
Education about rules, policy and the EULA can only achieve so much.
Man is greedy, few things are stronger than the desire for gold, and the only thing that will have real effect is how much illegally purchased isk CCP removes daily.
What is needed is more cleaver algorithms for finding transaction patterns and patterns in gameplay that may indicate isk farming.
Quote:
we remove tens of billions of illegally purchased ISK every day.
This, is ultimately the only measure of real effect.
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Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:50:00 -
[9]
Good seeing that you still care about the spam, unlike some people *caugh* sony *caugh* blizzard 
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Izo Azlion
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:56:00 -
[10]
Well said to be honest. There shouldnt be a market for this, if the GTC option is available.
Izo Azlion.
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Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:58:00 -
[11]
I am glad to hear you are taking steps to stop the RMT by not only punishing those you catch buying ISK, but by the mass banning of the farmers and macros that are collecting the ISK...
you are banning them aren't you?
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:07:00 -
[12]
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
CCP gains in the short run by saturating this intermediate market with its 'currency', namely time cards.
Players might profit in the long run by effectively having reduced monthly costs for playing, possibly with the futher incentive to have more players willing to spend those reduced fees, increasing EVE player base.
Is this worth the trade-off? I don't know. What I object to is the fact that CCP will not state the issue as it clearly is.
Damn this board, BTW, had a really good answer typed and I just got a blank screen and all my hard work gone :(
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Zetjur Jilnou
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:11:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zetjur Jilnou on 08/04/2008 14:11:35
Originally by: Kayscha
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
CCP gains in the short run by saturating this intermediate market with its 'currency', namely time cards.
Players might profit in the long run by effectively having reduced monthly costs for playing, possibly with the futher incentive to have more players willing to spend those reduced fees, increasing EVE player base.
Is this worth the trade-off? I don't know. What I object to is the fact that CCP will not state the issue as it clearly is.
Damn this board, BTW, had a really good answer typed and I just got a blank screen and all my hard work gone :(
If you can't completely prevent RMT, what's so bad about having RMT in a way that stops most of the negative aspects - the farming, the hacking and so on?
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DrAtomic
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:11:00 -
[14]
Update your documentation at https://secure.eve-online.com/SecSellEtcFaq.aspx it is misleading your customers and has been requested but STILL NOT CORRECTED over here http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=598326&page=5:]http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=598326&page=5[/url]. You have GMs sanctioning people for non secure ETC trade being not allowed but state in the ETC FAQ on the ETC trade page that people are allowed to use non secure but at their own risk (regarding receiving isk and/or the isk being legit).
- - -
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/04/2008 14:46:14
This devblog's contents should become a "sticky" newspost on the login screen, a sticky in "New Players" and "General Discussions" too.
I can not believe how many times I've had to write this exact same thing that the blog says to some generic moron of the moment.
P.S. And yes, please do correct the KB and FAQ on the "illegality" of non-secure GTC trade.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Belmarduk
de Prieure
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:48:00 -
[16]
This is what I really love about Eve and CCP - Zero-tolerance politics against RMT !!!
The secure-system with ETC is really ingenious - It keeps the cash-flow controlled.
If other games had the same policy/system they would have much less trouble with RMT and ingame-economics...
Keep up the good work CCP !
Greetings Belmarduk
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Edited by: GM Grimmi on 08/04/2008 13:25:52
Hi,
Macro-mission runners is exactly what I mean. Sorry for the mix-up :)
Cheers for the clarification!
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kayscha
This just offers RMTers a safe loophole at slightly reduced profits and requiring an extra step, selling time cards for cash at a discount.
What loophole? Unless they can get those codes at a discount, they will run a loss.
The time code is used when traded via the secure method. Trades made outside of the secure method are treated in the same way as illegal RMT.
There is no loophole here that doesn't exist anywhere else. Some might argue that RMT sellers could arrange to buy GTC's from their clients at prices far above the market prices. However, this is no different than buying any in-game item at an obsurd price, and can be expected to be handled accordingly.
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Horace Friendly
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:06:00 -
[19]
if you want people to always use the secure method and not have an excuse not to, include an option to not apply the code toward your time right away
i mean, what if i want to buy a timecode with isk at a discount/whatever and resell it to someone who doesn't know how much it should cost?
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jbob2000
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:12:00 -
[20]
I love how GM Grimmi thinks that people wont buy billions of isk with GTCs. Are you kidding? Half the titans out there were funded with GTCs.
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: jbob2000
I love how GM Grimmi thinks that people wont buy billions of isk with GTCs. Are you kidding? Half the titans out there were funded with GTCs.
Grimmi's point was not that people can't do that, but that it comes at a cost: there is a reason that GTC prices have dropped to 150 mil. 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:21:00 -
[22]
I am hoping that with subscription 2.0 the RMT trade will diminish even further
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:27:00 -
[23]
I'll take things like this seriously when the ISK channel and EVEMail spam cease.
There's no reason CCP can't stop it entirely with a mere bayesian filter on chat and EVE mail, but they seem to think it's too hard, so don't even try.
If Google can do it for all of Gmail without perceivable slowdown of mail delivery, surely CCP can do it for a tiny fraction of the number of accounts and messages that comprises TQ.
I'm tired of the excuses. Reporting sellers is a waste of my time, they'll be back on a new account in less time than it takes me to report them.
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Illusori
Salvage and Mining Consortium
Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:33:00 -
[24]
Quote:
...wallets will simply be put in the negative, making any form of market activity impossible, as well as preventing any actions that require ISK to be spent such as new clones or buying ship insurance.
Whilst this all sounds very good, what manner of appeals process is there for if someone has had this done to them and recieves no replies to petitions or attempts to find out why it has been done?
It's all well and good to wave a big stick, but if you clobber someone who you shouldn't have, there needs to be a clearly advertised means to appeal the decision, and handled in a timely manner if you're basically making the game unplayable for them!
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xHalcyonx
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:33:00 -
[25]
Must...Not...Resist...Urge...TO KILL FARMERS! 
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ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:53:00 -
[26]
You mean we don't have enough of these topics on the forums as it is? Or is this an attempt to collect all the replies in one thread?
I personally would like to hear something about the rest of the graphics updates, the rest of the overview updates, the dev's thoughts on changes to the POS warfare (however preliminary), some status on lag reducing measures(!!!), etc.
We're not getting any younger here...
...
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Scilent Enigma
Vae Victis Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:57:00 -
[27]
Personally, I would really like it if the MOTD had something in the lines of this devblog when there is nothing more important to announce. Having "Buying ISK for real money IS against the EULA and will be punished appropriately" would be a good way to raise awareness of these problems.
Cudos to CCP for adding additional "behind the scenes" tracking mechanisms to help the RMT-hunters with this.
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xaen
I'll take things like this seriously when the ISK channel and EVEMail spam cease.
There's no reason CCP can't stop it entirely with a mere bayesian filter on chat and EVE mail, but they seem to think it's too hard, so don't even try.
If Google can do it for all of Gmail without perceivable slowdown of mail delivery, surely CCP can do it for a tiny fraction of the number of accounts and messages that comprises TQ.
I'm tired of the excuses. Reporting sellers is a waste of my time, they'll be back on a new account in less time than it takes me to report them.
I completely understand your concerns with regards to this. You may or may not have noticed the dramatic reduction in spam since the deployment of Trinity 1.1, in which a large number of features (as mentioned in the dev blog) were introduced. I agree that if any spam is able to get through (which, unfortunately, some still does) then there is room for improvement. Please be assured that we will continue to work on developing tools to prevent spam from reaching players.
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GM Faolchu
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Perhaps if CCP would provide us with some proof that they were addressing the ISK sales and macro problems in EVE, we could give you more credibility on this matter?
IE, how much ISK have you appropriated, how many accts have you banned. Just give us some concrete examples to show us that you are aware of the problem, have a plan to deal with it, have taken stops to deal with, and have measurable progress.
While there has been some discussion to make such numbers and details of action taken public it is against our normal policy. We approach the matter silently and fight it as hard as we are allowed and hopefully that makes a difference.
We GM's always keep an eye on this particular part of EvE and we appreciate any input you players have to give us. |
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: GM Krymus
Originally by: Xaen
I'll take things like this seriously when the ISK channel and EVEMail spam cease.
There's no reason CCP can't stop it entirely with a mere bayesian filter on chat and EVE mail, but they seem to think it's too hard, so don't even try.
If Google can do it for all of Gmail without perceivable slowdown of mail delivery, surely CCP can do it for a tiny fraction of the number of accounts and messages that comprises TQ.
I'm tired of the excuses. Reporting sellers is a waste of my time, they'll be back on a new account in less time than it takes me to report them.
I completely understand your concerns with regards to this. You may or may not have noticed the dramatic reduction in spam since the deployment of Trinity 1.1, in which a large number of features (as mentioned in the dev blog) were introduced. I agree that if any spam is able to get through (which, unfortunately, some still does) then there is room for improvement. Please be assured that we will continue to work on developing tools to prevent spam from reaching players.
I haven't noticed a difference.
My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone?
And Xaen still gets 2-3 evemail spams a week, same as before.
Most of what I see is so obviously ISK spam that any halfassed bayesian filter would nail it in a heartbeat. But you're not using one.
Without giving away circumvention techniques, is there any way to describe what was actually done? I hope it wasn't some stopgap measure like banning accounts. That's like trying to fight a flood with a stick.
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
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Illusori
Salvage and Mining Consortium
Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: GM Guard
Anyone who feels we have removed his ISK without reason is urged to file a petition so we can look into the matter. All petitions are looked into and replied to.
I'll pass that on to the person I know who is affected, however I believe he has had no response to any petitions in the past two weeks. Thanks for your quick reply to my post though. :)
Originally by: GM Krymus
Please be assured that we will continue to work on developing tools to prevent spam from reaching players.
Any chance we could have one-click "report as spam" buttons on mails and in the right-click context-menu for chat? One that'll file a spam report with the content of the relevent message and any other information you need to take action?
Making it easier for us to report, and then for you to act on, than it is for the spammers to continue spamming is always good - the feeling that we as players are having to expend more effort than the spammers discourages people from feeling that there's any point in trying to help.
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Galen Salkor
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:05:00 -
[32]
So the purchasing of characters for real money doesn't fall under the topic of this devblog?
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GM Faolchu
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Xaen
My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone?
I'll be spending the rest of my shift sitting in this channel, so far I haven't see anything but I'll keep an eye out. |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: GM Guard
Edited by: GM Guard on 08/04/2008 16:06:36
Originally by: Illusori
Quote:
...wallets will simply be put in the negative, making any form of market activity impossible, as well as preventing any actions that require ISK to be spent such as new clones or buying ship insurance.
Whilst this all sounds very good, what manner of appeals process is there for if someone has had this done to them and recieves no replies to petitions or attempts to find out why it has been done?
It's all well and good to wave a big stick, but if you clobber someone who you shouldn't have, there needs to be a clearly advertised means to appeal the decision, and handled in a timely manner if you're basically making the game unplayable for them!
That's a good question actually.
Anyone who feels we have removed his ISK without reason is urged to file a petition so we can look into the matter. All petitions are looked into and replied to.
Please note that intentionally unverifiable explanations will not result in us returning ISK, whereas true stories are usually easy to verify in our experience. In other words, please file a petition if you truly received the ISK legitimately but don't bother if you bought it. There are penalties for filing intentionally false petitions and if your ISK came from an ISK seller there is no chance of misleading us into returning it.
I have heard a few tales of people selling stuff and then getting the transaction reversed. I of course cannot confirm how the isk was acquired, or if they are just making it up. for example one guy said that he sold a rattlesnake on contracts and then a while later had the isk removed from his wallet. which to me sounds very unfair even if it was to an isk seller or buyer. Or he was just making in up in which case I suggest throwing stuff at him 
Now I enjoy large isk transfers in the form of ransom. what happens when I ransom an isk buyer or seller? (note that I wouldn't ransom obvious farmers, like the 1000's of lowsec macro haulers, not that they would probably even respond to a ransom). Or take payment from a corp for system access?
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SillyWaif
Galactic Kingdom
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xaen
My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone?
And Xaen still gets 2-3 evemail spams a week, same as before.
Maybe it's not an option you (want to) use: I have set my CSPA charge to 1 Mil ISK and after that the number spam mails have greatly reduced. I rarely get them these days, luckily. Intention was 'to make them pay'
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Originally by: Xaen
My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone?
I'll be spending the rest of my shift sitting in this channel, so far I haven't see anything but I'll keep an eye out.
i would assume you can cover all rookie chats?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Perhaps if CCP would provide us with some proof that they were addressing the ISK sales and macro problems in EVE, we could give you more credibility on this matter?
IE, how much ISK have you appropriated, how many accts have you banned. Just give us some concrete examples to show us that you are aware of the problem, have a plan to deal with it, have taken stops to deal with, and have measurable progress.
Check the IGE website.
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Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Hamfast
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Perhaps if CCP would provide us with some proof that they were addressing the ISK sales and macro problems in EVE, we could give you more credibility on this matter?
IE, how much ISK have you appropriated, how many accts have you banned. Just give us some concrete examples to show us that you are aware of the problem, have a plan to deal with it, have taken stops to deal with, and have measurable progress.
While there has been some discussion to make such numbers and details of action taken public it is against our normal policy. We approach the matter silently and fight it as hard as we are allowed and hopefully that makes a difference.
We GM's always keep an eye on this particular part of EvE and we appreciate any input you players have to give us.
GM Faolchu,
I realize that releasing the names of the banned or busted is not an option, but it would seem the numbers would not carry with it the stigma... I also understand that the numbers, like 72.6% of all statistics, could be made up on the spot, thus many will question the validity of the numbers...
An every so often report (Monthly perhaps) that stated that X billion ISK removed from the game, Y accounts banned, Z Accounts warned...
It could also have the additional entry for ISK returned and Accounts reinstated (showing a willingness to admit mistakes are made)...
And think, you have the perfect forum for the post (sticky post)... the Crime and Punishment forum.
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tarminic
Check the IGE website.
Wahahaaaaa "currently unavailable" on anything EVE-related. Hooray \o/
1|2|3|4|5. |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Tarminic
Check the IGE website.
Wahahaaaaa "currently unavailable" on anything EVE-related. Hooray \o/
Le Sigh.
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\\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 08/04/2008 19:50:36
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Tarminic
Check the IGE website.
Wahahaaaaa "currently unavailable" on anything EVE-related. Hooray \o/
I'm making a note here
"and we remove tens of billions of illegally purchased ISK every day"
do people really buy this much isk every day? that is like what... 5000$?? people playing eve are losing 5000$ a day? wth? who are these players and why aren't they spaming our forums with wahh I got caught.
you sure it's not like 3 billion or less?
epic linkage
good job CCP.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:17:00 -
[42]
Semi-epic thread :
Why ISK-for-secure-GTC is good
No, it doesn't discuss the devblog directly, even if it sort of started that way.
I urge you to let it open, and this here is just provided as a reference thread.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Dr Felonius
Civilian Purposes Limited
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:35:00 -
[43]
Do you folks at CCP have any plans to improve the market for time cards? It seems like having some in-game market for time cards would be much more flexible (and thus drive prices lower) than relying on forum posts.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Originally by: Xaen
My SAK alt is still pummeled every 30-90 seconds ISK ads in corp chat. And it's painfully obvious what they are. Price lists anyone?
I'll be spending the rest of my shift sitting in this channel, so far I haven't see anything but I'll keep an eye out.
I could just send you the log snippets.
Sadly, I think little ole grep is capable of finding most of the ISK ads.
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:35:00 -
[45]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert
Perhaps if CCP would provide us with some proof that they were addressing the ISK sales and macro problems in EVE, we could give you more credibility on this matter?
IE, how much ISK have you appropriated, how many accts have you banned. Just give us some concrete examples to show us that you are aware of the problem, have a plan to deal with it, have taken stops to deal with, and have measurable progress.
While there has been some discussion to make such numbers and details of action taken public it is against our normal policy. We approach the matter silently and fight it as hard as we are allowed and hopefully that makes a difference.
We GM's always keep an eye on this particular part of EvE and we appreciate any input you players have to give us.
I have to say I do find it odd that CCP would encourage players to inform each other on the correct processes for transacting isk, while at the same time their own policy is not to divulge information to players that would be invaluable for this very task. I'd love to be able to warn people that they will face the consequences for buying isk illegally like X others did this week/month/whatever, but without that X, how much weight would such warnings really carry?
Certainly it's great that numbers have been divulged in this blog; now let's see it continue on a regular basis. From the players' perspective, silent action = inaction. How are we supposed to know the difference otherwise? I would have thought that CCP would be only too happy to capitalise on this clear and regular opportunity for some positive PR. With all the issues the game has faced in the last 18 months, one would have thought so, anyway.
If it's a question of privacy, then I have to say I take issue with that on a personal level as a CSM candidate. People who break the rules have all the details of their infraction suppressed, while someone looking to make a positive difference for the game is to expect their RL details to be revealed?
How about this for a policy: you break the rules, you forfeit your right to privacy under those same rules, at least if it can be proven that the rules were broken knowingly.
/Ben
Ben Derindar: Eve CSM candidate
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Wai Ling
Path Finders
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:40:00 -
[46]
This is regarding to some good ideas that WoW may have (ONLY good thing)
Blizzard currently has a program named "Warden". Warden is simply a program that presses ban and wtfpwnts hackers and macroers. However, there is more to Warden than the banning spree. Warden is hooked to a backdoor that is downloaded on all computers that has games of Blizzard downloaded. This backdoor transfers a list of all processes that the computer of the user is currently running as well as those simple scripts. It is then up to a human watcher to make the decision whether or not to blacklist a process. It may not be the most effective way to prevent Farmers but it is simply a horsefly that slowly eats away at their economy.
Backdoors may be illegal but you've agreed to have it on your computer in the EULA 
This is my 2 cents |
Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:13:00 -
[47]
As an avid anti-farmer player, I do enjoy sitting in ingunn and popping the hundreds of haulers that come out of the republic justice department hourly. There was a period where it appeared that many, many accounts had been banned, but the farmer hauler spam has been on a steady increase since february. I too would very much like to see at least numbers of banned accounts or something, even if it was made up it would mean that all my hours spent looting shuttle wrecks was not entirely in vain 
Another thing which I have thought of, perhaps it is rather subversive, but farmers are the only other eve players against who I show no mercy. I imagine it'd be fairly easy to identify accounts of farmers running hauling missions 23/7, not only by their obvious names, but by the fact they do not chat or do anything except run missions. Perhaps CCP has the ability to do some modifications to per-player mission settings, such as reducing the LP a farmer receives from his agent by say 95% :)
This would not only make the farmers constantly wary in a less-overt way than being banned, it might help to curtail some of the implant spammage that has brought +4 implants down to around 14m in jita.
Just my 2 cents at least...I hope this post even gets read by a GM/Dev 
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Typhado3
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:17:00 -
[48]
This is one thing I think ccp is doing good in.... though i would like to see them have more powers and tools for getting the spammers.
Stuff like word filters through chat to catch the isk selling websites (yes I know what tiny url is) and then apply a mute to that char so no one has to hear them spam....
don't know what powers isd have, I believe they can't ban characters but if u gave em something like a mute ability on players which could only be taken off by a stuck petition would help stem the tide.
some ppl may think powers like these are bad cause of free speach/privacy on word filters and misuse on second one but I think they'd be great.
2 Things i didn't see the in this dev blog that I think are important though.
Encouraging players to petition isk sellers.
The big difference between isk sellers and GTC trade is u can't make rl money out of GTC trade (u can save money but not make it).
I see a lot of these spammers when i sit in the help channel and am getting tired of petitioning them which I do half the time. The other half I just block them figuring that there are already another 5 petitions on the way about that 1 guy.... one thing I've heard though is that when we remove players from our block list they get added to buddy list..... not very fun searching through buddy list for isk spammers and our block lists tend to run out quickly.
Still gotta laugh eacch time I see spammers saying "buy eve GOLD"...... go back to wow =p
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Typhado3
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:27:00 -
[49]
2 things that where missed in dev blog
petitioning isk spammers
major difference between GTC and isk sellers is you can't make rl money from GTC, u can save some but you can't make it.
would like to see more powers/tools to catch these ppl, word filters for their websites (yes I know what tiny url is) and global mute powers for isd so suspects will have to petition a GM to prove themselves innocent before they can go back to talking (though they can still play the game). I'm guessing the main reason you don't do this is cause it would cause some ppl to complain about privacy/free speech misuse of powers or whatever, but tbh I think most of eve would be fine with it.
also about petitioning isk spammers, i've noticed how u now have to specify a char name. Is this so 5 petitions won't cause problems for GM's? if so tell us so I can go back to petitioning them as my block list is getting full and don't wanna spam more petitions than are already being spammed.
lastly I still laugh whenever I see an isk spammer say "buy eve GOLD"...... go back to wow =p
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: GM Faolchu
While there has been some discussion to make such numbers and details of action taken public it is against our normal policy.
We approach the matter silently and fight it as hard as we are allowed and hopefully that makes a difference.
Perhaps a change in policy is needed then.
From the general population's standpoint, a "silent fight" |