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Rahne
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:18:00 -
[1]
I was just reading BobGenghisKhan's 'Insurance' post about how insurance has made losing a battleship a non-event. I fully understand his PvP point of view, but disagree with calls for changes to the insurance as earning 20 to 30-odd million isk is far from easy, as far as I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) are concerned.
However what I have in mind is this. Once you have your skills and buy your first battleship, you also get your 'Battleship License', which effectively qualifies you to captain a bs. (Current bs owners immediately get one too)
As soon as you lose a bs, for whatever reason, be it to Concord, NPC rats, PvP, you still get your insurance payout, but you LOSE your license for a predetermined time, let's say, 2 weeks (could be shorter, could be longer). At this point you're still free to pilot frigates, cruisers, indys etc but are prohibited from piloting ANY type of battleship until your license is reinstated. The license is not tied to isk in any way, so you could not 'buy back' your license.
So Mr BobGK, and other PvPers know that if they destroy someone's bs, that player won't be back for a while, unless he comes back in a frigate or cruiser. This could also have the added effect of mixing up battlegroups, and slightly reducing the number of bs' in game at any given time.
CCP could roleplay it along the lines of "...because of the great loss of life (the bs crew) in the destruction of your bs, you're having a hard time getting together a new crew..." or some such nonsense. 
They could also even introduce some kind of new Social class skill, which would SLIGHTLY reduce the ban time length.
Anyway, just an idea, feel free to comment. I've not been heavily involved with PvP, so am particularly interested to hear the PvPer's views.
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Maule
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:23:00 -
[2]
it sounds lke a good idear and then not.. what about the players who have 2 or more bs ? if they loose 1 of them should the other bs just sit there and collect dust ? just wondering..
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:29:00 -
[3]
Quote:
it sounds lke a good idear and then not.. what about the players who have 2 or more bs ? if they loose 1 of them should the other bs just sit there and collect dust ? just wondering..
I think thats the point he is making that lots of player have or can afford 2-3 or even more BS's without a worry. Hampering them getting straight back into another after the loss would make things interesting to say the least.
I think its a good idea.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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illuminati
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:52:00 -
[4]
It's tough for your nerves blowing the same person BS up 4 times in less than a week and they still keep coming, hehe.
The thing I love best about this game is combat, I love the rush of small wolfpack action.
Loosing a BS without insurance is total grief, death and pain. Loosing a BS with 100% insurance is silly, here are your new keys sir... The game needs better loss-mechanics imo, but not sure what that would be.
Also, I never understood why 100% of the minerals in a ship disappear upon destruction. 50% of it should be left as salvageable debris or something, thus adding need for tactics with an indy pilot backup or such.
Salvaging ex-destroyer debris in Homeworld makes sence, why not have it here?
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:57:00 -
[5]
Nah just make it your battleship skill goes to 0 SP
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.04.19 12:58:00 -
[6]
Salvaging should have been (and was planned to be) in this game since it launched...
Now its still not there..
With a decent salvaging system there is no need for insurance or atleast not 100% insurance...
After any big battle whatever side holds the field will have the sweet advantage of salvaging all the wrecks that were left behind from the battle and in so doing have a way to get their pilots their ship back...
This way youd have to WIN if you want the full sum of your ships cost returned to you.
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Rahne
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Posted - 2004.04.19 13:01:00 -
[7]
LOL - I thought about that SwitchBl4d3 
But I don't see why losing your bs would make you forget how to pilot it.
And it'd be VERY cruel on anyone with bs lvl5! 
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.19 13:03:00 -
[8]
I'm sick of people saying that losing a battleship means nothing.
First of all, you lose the 30 million you put out to insure it.
Second of all, you lose ALL the rare modules you had equipped. This can include hundreds of millions of modal lasers, F-90s, and other rare/tech 2 items.
Third of all, if you get podded, you lose all you implants.
There is a MINIMUM loss for any decently equipped battleship of over 50 million, even with insurance.
With really good equipment this can rise into the hundreds of millions.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2004.04.19 14:14:00 -
[9]
Just what you say, Silverlancer. Insurance helps a lot, but some ten million isk might be needed for a 100% replacement as in "here are your keys".
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Muthsera
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Posted - 2004.04.19 14:18:00 -
[10]
I fully agree whit silver here.
The share terror of losing my ship is quite unplessent.
I've never been podded, I've never lost anything larger than a frig. And I've never shot on a player.
My ship is easily worth 150 million, and I've don't even have an insurence.
I've got 4 implants. that is close to another 50 mill.
So I stand the chance on losing 200 mill if I get podded.
I got a good corp in my back. So I can recover that in a short time. But still... It's bloody 200mill!!!!
I can pay another 30 mill in insurence so I can recover around half that if I get podded.
That makes the total of 230mill worth. And I whould only recover some 110 mill of that.
It's a loss of 120 million even whit insurence.
You all start thinking about that.
I whould guess it's only 5-10% of the ppl out there that can carrie such a loss whitout serius problems. (high estimate)
I always run the risk of losing my ship. Even though I don't partisipate in that part of the game.
But a license only takes care of battleship pvp.
You still have blocks and cruiser PvP.
My point is rather to insure implants.
It's far better, for a victim. (you still have to pay for the insurence every time)
And if anyone tells me they get sick of ppl that can afford to lose 2 or 3 bs. I tell you this:
They are not many. And have you ever consived the thought that they worked hard to be in such a possision??????
SoonV
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alar1c
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Posted - 2004.04.19 14:55:00 -
[11]
Quote:
it sounds lke a good idear and then not.. what about the players who have 2 or more bs ? if they loose 1 of them should the other bs just sit there and collect dust ? just wondering..
I just lost my Mega, and am using my Dom to mine for the minerals to build a new one! With your idea, I couldn't fly my Dom?!?
Like the above quote, it would sit there collecting dust as I was forced to mine in a thorax!
I think not!
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DeathBunny
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:00:00 -
[12]
Some have around 8-10 BS's sitting collecting dust personally. Let alone what a good corp can have sitting around in hangers waiting for the time to release them to the players.
Fear The Bunny
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.19 15:51:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Some have around 8-10 BS's sitting collecting dust personally. Let alone what a good corp can have sitting around in hangers waiting for the time to release them to the players.
Some, not all.
VOTF also to my knowledge has lots of spare bships in the hangars but that is not true of many corporations, in fact most.
We have a tiny majority of the powerplayers who have it "made", they have the bship, the backup bships, a corp with tons of mega and zyd etc. THIS IS BY FAR A MINORITY.
So they are getting tired of slugging each other. Tough.
Spread the wealth if you feel like you are in no danger even if podded with a head full of implants, don't try to make the loss even greater to those not in your shoes.
Personally I have 3 bships and about to get yet another one, I could and have gotten easily over loosing a bship but I'm not so presomptious as to think that others are in my shoes.
<)<
a history |
EvilDoomer
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Posted - 2004.04.19 17:15:00 -
[14]
Na, this would suck, If I have 10 bs's I should be able to lose every single one.
Next thing peeps will want insurance for bumping into me.
ITs a game...
Let have fun.
Thanks
EvilDoomer
Chicago Mobsters
** Ghost Fleet Pilot **
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Lord Ronska
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Posted - 2004.04.19 17:46:00 -
[15]
Or maybe u could fly without an lisence, but insurane company wouldn't deal with u before u got ur license back, this way u could still mine. (with risks of course)
U are braking my balls!
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Thyro
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Thyro on 19/04/2004 18:17:25
Quote:
I was just reading BobGenghisKhan's 'Insurance' post about how insurance has made losing a battleship a non-event. I fully understand his PvP point of view, but disagree with calls for changes to the insurance as earning 20 to 30-odd million isk is far from easy, as far as I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) are concerned.
However what I have in mind is this. Once you have your skills and buy your first battleship, you also get your 'Battleship License', which effectively qualifies you to captain a bs. (Current bs owners immediately get one too)
As soon as you lose a bs, for whatever reason, be it to Concord, NPC rats, PvP, you still get your insurance payout, but you LOSE your license for a predetermined time, let's say, 2 weeks (could be shorter, could be longer). At this point you're still free to pilot frigates, cruisers, indys etc but are prohibited from piloting ANY type of battleship until your license is reinstated. The license is not tied to isk in any way, so you could not 'buy back' your license.
So Mr BobGK, and other PvPers know that if they destroy someone's bs, that player won't be back for a while, unless he comes back in a frigate or cruiser. This could also have the added effect of mixing up battlegroups, and slightly reducing the number of bs' in game at any given time.
CCP could roleplay it along the lines of "...because of the great loss of life (the bs crew) in the destruction of your bs, you're having a hard time getting together a new crew..." or some such nonsense.
They could also even introduce some kind of new Social class skill, which would SLIGHTLY reduce the ban time length.
Anyway, just an idea, feel free to comment. I've not been heavily involved with PvP, so am particularly interested to hear the PvPer's views.
hum?
"...because of the great loss of life (the bs crew) in the destruction of your bs, you're having a hard time getting together a new crew..."
I would like to meet my crew 
A BS crew number = to 1 and not more than 1 (unfortunatly)
I disagree with your idea, because if you lose your BS not by your mistake but because your PVP skills were crap (if u engage a experienced PVPer with more skills than you)... why you can't get ur 2nd, 3th etc BS? wait wait wait to fly again?... YEahhh perhaps CCP should offer a discont for those 2 weeks while you can't play using a BS that took so long to adquire.
I'm sorry ... but seems to me another stupid rule that you are trying to put in, like many others stupid rules that exist already in this game!
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Dallenn
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:31:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dallenn on 19/04/2004 18:33:46
A license would be an ad hoc solution. Using crew could make more sense, because you can hook it up with other game dynamics.
See Crew: multiple effects
We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve /
Idea Lab favourites
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Drutort
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:37:00 -
[18]
why in the world would you want ANOTHER TIME SINK?? plz tell me why?
maybe if you fly with standard gear its not too big of a deal but jee insuring each bs 30mil+ or so will add up pretty quick i think, and also what about the gear? rare loot doesnFt just drop by with your new bs or into your other bs's that are in the hanger you know... it takes time and lots of isk to find the gear
the only thing i would agree is to a type of license record... that you can insure your BS but within the first week or so after you lost your ship it will be like 20% more in costs and so on... so that pretty soon you will be paying 50% of the BS just to insure it.
your record or license should get better over time and you should get discout on insurance.
THAT is the only thing i could say would enhance this game, and not put a time sink on it like the original idea was.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:40:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Edited by: Dallenn on 19/04/2004 18:33:46
A license would be an ad hoc solution. Using crew could make more sense, because you can hook it up with other game dynamics.
See Crew: multiple effects
also the crew idea is great, it would req you to have other crew members or higher some from insurance? concord? but the more ships you lose or say within a X period of time the more expensive it would be if you want to JUMP RIGHT BACK IN the action... the crew would want to get paid more so would the insurance be cause you are a high risk.. and to prove that you are a low risk would req TIME, that is the only thing i would agree besides my addition to the license idea that i have in other reply
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:57:00 -
[20]
Prohibit sales of battleships to pirate outfits, deemed as such by a panel of GMs. Also make Concord podkill, yes podkill pirates they come across flying a battleship in empire space regardless of security status.
Now that will keep battleship count down.
It will also make the status of the battleship go back to how it was intitially thought, a thing of beauty reserved for those few in good standing with various sanctioning bodys of the lawabiding population.
Convert Stations
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Zen Jakkaru
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Posted - 2004.04.19 19:29:00 -
[21]
Quote:
but disagree with calls for changes to the insurance as earning 20 to 30-odd million isk is far from easy, as far as I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) are concerned.
Granted i'm not exactly new to EVE, i (re)started playing 13 days ago.I (legally) made 14 million isk today in a hoarder with crap items, crap navigation skills and little starting capital.If i can do that in a hoarder, i fail to see how 30 million over a period of 3 weeks is a problem.
Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.04.19 21:02:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 19/04/2004 21:05:42
Quote:
Prohibit sales of battleships to pirate outfits, deemed as such by a panel of GMs. Also make Concord podkill, yes podkill pirates they come across flying a battleship in empire space regardless of security status.
Now that will keep battleship count down.
It will also make the status of the battleship go back to how it was intitially thought, a thing of beauty reserved for those few in good standing with various sanctioning bodys of the lawabiding population.
Ohh so the GM&s should decide who gets to fly a battleship or not
Because if they are pirates, which are a legitimate thing to be in this game, your not worthy, in your eyes to fly a bs. BS, remember, that those pirates you talk about, sometimes owns all BS bp's and have multiple bs in their hangar. and their alt corps sell bs to players like you, who dont like pirates, and they also pay every month to play this game 
Bad idea, bad bad idea
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.04.19 22:29:00 -
[23]
Their must be a system that allows you to hurt your enemies. Losing a Battleship should come at a stiffer penalty then losing out on 10 million ISK. In times of war you need to be able to hurt your enemy and having a ttime outv for losing your BS is a good ideal but two weeks is too long.
A few days till you get your license activated is a good ideal. This gives Corporation A to drive home the advantage over Corporation B after that decisive battle yesterday. EVE has instant recovery from losses in war there is no instant recovery. To some players ISK is no object and they can replace their BS instantly the moment they dock to their hanger. I think 3 days till you can pilot a BS is a good ideal.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.19 22:47:00 -
[24]
Quote:
In times of war you need to be able to hurt your enemy
This is a game
<)<
a history |
Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.04.20 08:00:00 -
[25]
I think any effort to try and make the game more of a challenge with regards to loss and gain will come up against stiff oposition.
The reason being is that many just want to play Eve as they want, now by that I don't mean that others should dictate to them how to play but they feel nobody should have the ability to realy cause them any loss.
Above and in many other threads you see how many think the game is not worth playing if you lose your BS, get a grip I say more fun has been had in cruisers and frigates than in any BS.
Also there is the isk issue, how much is enough? Once every player has x Billion isk will they then decide that we should realy make it so there is a little loss and challenge in the game?
It all comes down to the fact player lose the plot on the fact this is a game, you lose nothing in reality, yes some time but then you are playing a game so you are losing time anyway. Eve can't be a 1st person slug fest, just as it can't be a Industrial sim. It is a little of both but must not be separated into the 2.
There must be clear lose's at some point during the game, to the little guy as well the huge corp. And until players understand that lose is part of what makes the Universe a challenge then it will continue to just get more and more diluted.
And eventually see the introduction of either concentual PvP or Death match systems!
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Durandal
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Posted - 2004.04.20 09:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lord Ronska
Or maybe u could fly without an lisence, but insurane company wouldn't deal with u before u got ur license back, this way u could still mine. (with risks of course)
I like this idea. This way there is a much greter risk attached to losing the second battleship of the day! So you could have 100% insured battleship, lose it in combat, your license is revoked for 2 weeks during which time you can't get insurance on the battleship, then after that you get you license back and can insure it. It means players maythink twice about jumping straight into their second, third or fourth battleship straight away and rejoining the battle - and if they decide to fight then there now exists a bigger risk for them. Although I wouldn't extend this to any other class of ship.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.04.20 11:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Durandal
Originally by: Lord Ronska
Or maybe u could fly without an lisence, but insurane company wouldn't deal with u before u got ur license back, this way u could still mine. (with risks of course)
I like this idea. This way there is a much greter risk attached to losing the second battleship of the day! So you could have 100% insured battleship, lose it in combat, your license is revoked for 2 weeks during which time you can't get insurance on the battleship, then after that you get you license back and can insure it. It means players maythink twice about jumping straight into their second, third or fourth battleship straight away and rejoining the battle - and if they decide to fight then there now exists a bigger risk for them. Although I wouldn't extend this to any other class of ship.
I support this idea. Sounds exactly right to me.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passZ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Dallenn
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Posted - 2004.04.20 11:46:00 -
[28]
Blueprints have a part to play in controlling out-of-race battleships. For example, BPs for T2 battleships could be handed out only by a few high-level agents belonging to only a few factions. Maybe it would require missions done by a corp too, not just a player. This does not mean favoritism against pirates - pirate factions can hand out the T2 BPs for other technology.
The big question is what happens to BPs after CCP gives them to the players. You know, players might just sell the BP to the highest bid. The easy way out could be to just state that it is up to the players to choose how they want to play their characters, and in a world where everybody sells out for good isk it is realistic for high-power battleships to be available to anyone.
Or maybe there wouldn't be BPs for a while. The first few months T2 battleships could be mission rewards. (Might increase agent running popularity a bit :-) )
We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve /
Idea Lab favourites
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A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies |
Adriana
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Posted - 2004.04.20 12:02:00 -
[29]
Hi we are a rich pirate corp, and we want to grief people even more. Please make it so that when we kill people they will quit the game.
It's bad enough that they don't acknowledge us as lords and masters of the entire cosmos and instead call us as the 13 year old, immature, anti-social rat bastards that we are.
Please make it so that it's even harder for anyone to compete with us. The bottlenecks preventing anyone else from mining money nearly as fast as we can (20x as much for us in a day isk wise) aren't enough. More people need to die, and quit.
The best part about this is, because we control 0.0 space we are the onlyt ones able to chain the nice BS mods and stack them in our hangers. If you take away peoples ability to fly BSs for two weeks, and nerf insurance we can gate gank them at our blocades, and if they still aren't dumb enopugh to cancel their subscriptions, wait til they see our prices for their new BS named mods.
...thats the paraphrased version imoho.
I am more and more thinking that CCP needs to implement a much better AI for NPCs, beef them way the hell up, make ultra powerful encounters...and remove PvP. The problem is as the game is currently the only end game IS PvP. If it were removed without putting in an end game it would ruin Eve. It would certainly get rid of the griefers though.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.04.20 12:13:00 -
[30]
Adrianna - THAT IS THE POINT!
this game IS Player against Player..
be that combat, market, etc etc.
atm this thread is about ways of making combat actually hurt - ways of getting people to move and actualy win a war.
that idea - that when you loose a ship, insurance agents will not insure you for a period of time... this is a good idea :)
that is a GREAT idea.
should carry over to all ship classes.
When you get shot down you should be denied insurance for a period (depending on sec rating/faction rating)
that would be great :)
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