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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:52:00 -
[1]
Hello, so let's start by a presentation, I'm an Amarr and I live in 0.0, I fly an AF (Vengeance) and I'm currently skilling for a cloaking device. The fact is I'm starting to realize that a good way to have real fun when you live in 0.0 and hate PVE, is possessing a FORCE RECON.
So here come some questions/wonders, thanks in advance for taking the time to share with me some of your experience! 1. Does the Pilgrim really suck and is it true that it's only good for solo pvp against noobs? 2. In case I would have to train for a Force Recon from another race, I have a hard time chosing between a Rapier and an Azaru. I know they are useful for diferent purposes, Rapier being great for camping, and Azaru for flying around looking for a prey. Am I right? Discuss...
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:08:00 -
[2]
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Lux Exterior
Gallente Critical Analysis R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:08:00 -
[3]
You appear to have overlooked the Falcon.
Falcon > Rapier > Arazu > Pilgrim
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:11:00 -
[4]
Pilgrim is arguably the worst after the nos nerf - Falcon undisputed first but also a good few bonuses to being called primary and all. Rapier easily second in the nano era, and nano's well itself for improved survivability. Arazu..well don't have experience with it, can well be effective i suppose.
But yeah, as the above poster said, Falcon, Rapier > Arazu > Pilgrim.
Yes i know i spelled COAD wrong. Stop mailing me about it
I refuse to read SHC |
Yoko Lee
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:32:00 -
[5]
ccp boosted the Falcon, i can't understand why? Pilgrim is my favorite ship cause more difficult to play, falcon just decloack jam wait and win.
I never lose my falcon, i perma jam so much bs with this ship, i can see a lot of BB now (noob pilot), they can perma jam cruiser bc and some BS, i put 2x eccm on my aba but not enought.
Rapier and falcon = great (too much for falcon) Arazu = good (good with rapier or falcon) Pilgrim = if you love blob and die (i use it for scout and kill some cruiser). Pilgrim need change.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Yoko Lee ccp boosted the Falcon, i can't understand why? Pilgrim is my favorite ship cause more difficult to play, falcon just decloack jam wait and win.
I never lose my falcon, i perma jam so much bs with this ship, i can see a lot of BB now (noob pilot), they can perma jam cruiser bc and some BS, i put 2x eccm on my aba but not enought.
Rapier and falcon = great (too much for falcon) Arazu = good (good with rapier or falcon) Pilgrim = if you love blob and die (i use it for scout and kill some cruiser). Pilgrim need change.
Can't really kill much with the Falcon tho, has next to zero dps.
As for the Pilgrim: Drop the TD bonus, add range bonus to neut/nos. That way you would be able to engage from range, and not have to worry about throwing on as much tank as possible because you are in web range. --
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Yoko Lee
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:07:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Yoko Lee on 09/04/2008 21:10:21
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Yoko Lee ccp boosted the Falcon, i can't understand why? Pilgrim is my favorite ship cause more difficult to play, falcon just decloack jam wait and win.
I never lose my falcon, i perma jam so much bs with this ship, i can see a lot of BB now (noob pilot), they can perma jam cruiser bc and some BS, i put 2x eccm on my aba but not enought.
Rapier and falcon = great (too much for falcon) Arazu = good (good with rapier or falcon) Pilgrim = if you love blob and die (i use it for scout and kill some cruiser). Pilgrim need change.
Can't really kill much with the Falcon tho, has next to zero dps.
As for the Pilgrim: Drop the TD bonus, add range bonus to neut/nos. That way you would be able to engage from range, and not have to worry about throwing on as much tank as possible because you are in web range.
O dps for falcon its oki, but your ennemy have 0 dps too cause can't lock, then falcon and BB maybe to easy (for gang of course), i play since 2004 (jam was nerf (good) but ccp boosted ecm boat (bad idea).
Like i said, i used falcon, i stoped to play with it cause its just too easy, i dont play for that, just for fun.
Actually too much people want boost, i love my ship boost it ccp plz ! and ccp boost this ship, i hate boost (i hate falcon boost).
I love my absolution but just 3 med slot is not enough, ccp plz can you put 4 med slot?
CS and BS easy to jam, too much?
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:07:00 -
[8]
Edited by: *****zilla on 09/04/2008 21:12:01
Originally by: Umar Khattab a good way to have real fun when you live in 0.0 and hate PVE, is possessing a FORCE RECON. ...Rapier being great for camping, and Azaru for flying ...
Recons are specialist ships that lack dps. I would look outside the force recons to the combat recons such as the curse/huginn and also seriously consider a nano hac.
If you want to go solo the curse is a good choice as they can take down a ratting bc/bs. The falon works well in gangs. The arazu works well for going after someone in a belt. The rapier is excellent to counter all the nanos (but you'll need support to kill them).
If you go recon, I would focus on a gang support type role (ie rapier/falcon). Otherwise focus on Vagabond/Ishtar as they've replaced many of the soloing recons in 0.0. If you don't need a specialist ship like a recon in your gangs go for a cookie cutter nano setup.
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:16:00 -
[9]
OK, forgot to tell that i wanna enjoy the ship both in gang and solo, that's why I didn't talk about the Falcon, cause alone with the falcon you can't do ****, right? As for the Pilgrim, isn't it not so bad with 2x Tracking Disruptor II?
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Yoko Lee
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Umar Khattab OK, forgot to tell that i wanna enjoy the ship both in gang and solo, that's why I didn't talk about the Falcon, cause alone with the falcon you can't do ****, right? As for the Pilgrim, isn't it not so bad with 2x Tracking Disruptor II?
I dont use TD with my pilgrim for solo, cause i go close range then if i'm web, td dont work. (TD work better with curse)
i use it for scout, and to kill some cruiser or noob BC.
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:31:00 -
[11]
And about the major difference between force and combat recon, with force u go fast while cloaked, and ur able to warp cloaked too, right? And u have a lil less dps, that's it no?
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: *****zilla Edited by: *****zilla on 09/04/2008 21:12:01
Originally by: Umar Khattab a good way to have real fun when you live in 0.0 and hate PVE, is possessing a FORCE RECON. ...Rapier being great for camping, and Azaru for flying ...
Recons are specialist ships that lack dps. I would look outside the force recons to the combat recons such as the curse/huginn and also seriously consider a nano hac.
If you want to go solo the curse is a good choice as they can take down a ratting bc/bs. The falon works well in gangs. The arazu works well for going after someone in a belt. The rapier is excellent to counter all the nanos (but you'll need support to kill them).
If you go recon, I would focus on a gang support type role (ie rapier/falcon). Otherwise focus on Vagabond/Ishtar as they've replaced many of the soloing recons in 0.0. If you don't need a specialist ship like a recon in your gangs go for a cookie cutter nano setup.
When you talk about nano HAC, u mean any HAC is worth being nanoed? Is for example a nano-sacrilege a viable ship?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:35:00 -
[13]
Sac has too much tank potential to be nanoed really.
Yes i know i spelled COAD wrong. Stop mailing me about it
I refuse to read SHC |
Yoko Lee
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Umar Khattab And about the major difference between force and combat recon, with force u go fast while cloaked, and ur able to warp cloaked too, right? And u have a lil less dps, that's it no?
You can warp cloack with pilgrim, yes. My pilgrim have tank armor (you can nano it if you want, why not but not my game) and my curse have nano and shield tank (2x lse II) speed defence but you can't warp cloack
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:40:00 -
[15]
And isn't it a pain in the ass to travel cloaked with something else than a Force Recon? I mean, the thing I'm looking for is some freedom of movement in 0.0, even if i'm traveling alone, and as well the possibility of popping as many prey as i can find. Is there something else than Force Recon to satisfy those needs? Thanks for your answers! Really.
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yoko Lee
Originally by: Umar Khattab And about the major difference between force and combat recon, with force u go fast while cloaked, and ur able to warp cloaked too, right? And u have a lil less dps, that's it no?
You can warp cloack with pilgrim, yes. My pilgrim have tank armor (you can nano it if you want, why not but not my game) and my curse have nano and shield tank (2x lse II) speed defence but you can't warp cloack
Also Yoko, I'd like to know what you think about Kahleena's post in that thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=585767&page=1#19 Thankee
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 21:51:00 -
[17]
The difference between combat and force recons is that the force recons get bonuses to allow warping while cloaking and popping cynos while the combat recons have better dmg potential with more high slots.
A Huginn for example is better solo. While it lacks the ability to cloak it has better damage. A Curse is the same way. A rapier or falcon may be better in gangs as they've little dps but great utility.
You may want to use one for gangs and one for solo.
Originally by: Umar Khattab And isn't it a pain in the ass to travel cloaked with something else than a Force Recon? I mean, the thing I'm looking for is some freedom of movement in 0.0
Speed beats the ability to cloak in 0.0.
Cloaking is useful if you're going to be in the same system and rarely jump out. Most of the tactics to counter cloakers involve emptying the system out so that you're forced to jump to find targets where you're easy pickings on the other side. A proper gate camp with ceptors to uncloak you and some dps can make gates dangerous.
With a nano hac (ie an ishtar and mostly the vaga) and the right tactics you can move freely through 0.0. The learning can be expensive but with the right tactics they represent about the same risk of getting caught as a cov ops. Nanos have greater damage and the ability to scoot away from risk such as when they see a Rapier/Huginn. The same setup works for solo and gangs.
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Camulos Redne
Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:02:00 -
[18]
to be honest I rarely fly anything but a Curse unless I'm flying my Heritic. I've told other that If I could do it again I would never of trained up for the curse. I love flying it, I love tweaking it and I still haven't finished training to pimp it yet.
You want to fly the curse/pilgrim then it is pretty much a never ending training cycle.
So long story short. If you don't want to fly anything but recons then go for them, they are fun ships to fly but take a lot of training time and isk to fly well.
I use to have an uba sig. Then it got wtfpwned! |
Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: *****zilla
Speed beats the ability to cloak in 0.0.
Cloaking is useful if you're going to be in the same system and rarely jump out. Most of the tactics to counter cloakers involve emptying the system out so that you're forced to jump to find targets where you're easy pickings on the other side. A proper gate camp with ceptors to uncloak you and some dps can make gates dangerous.
With a nano hac (ie an ishtar and mostly the vaga) and the right tactics you can move freely through 0.0. The learning can be expensive but with the right tactics they represent about the same risk of getting caught as a cov ops. Nanos have greater damage and the ability to scoot away from risk such as when they see a Rapier/Huginn. The same setup works for solo and gangs.
Thank you vey much for the insight man! So it's at least a little easier for a Vaga to escape from a camp bubble, cause it can get away from the bubble faster. But if you jump in a bubble with a rappier around, you're pretty much fukced anyway, aren't you?
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Umar Khattab
Originally by: *****zilla
Speed beats the ability to cloak in 0.0.
Cloaking is useful if you're going to be in the same system and rarely jump out. Most of the tactics to counter cloakers involve emptying the system out so that you're forced to jump to find targets where you're easy pickings on the other side. A proper gate camp with ceptors to uncloak you and some dps can make gates dangerous.
With a nano hac (ie an ishtar and mostly the vaga) and the right tactics you can move freely through 0.0. The learning can be expensive but with the right tactics they represent about the same risk of getting caught as a cov ops. Nanos have greater damage and the ability to scoot away from risk such as when they see a Rapier/Huginn. The same setup works for solo and gangs.
Thank you vey much for the insight man! So it's at least a little easier for a Vaga to escape from a camp bubble, cause it can get away from the bubble faster. But if you jump in a bubble with a rappier around, you're pretty much fukced anyway, aren't you?
If you play it right in a stabber/vaga/curse, not necessarily. But pretty much. Certain little sekritz I have will help evade double-sided bubbled camps (not deployable bubbles). But you really need to judge on the situation, because its a now or nothin' move, and your dead if you misjudge it. GL figuring it out. Do it with cheap ships please. --
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Camulos Redne to be honest I rarely fly anything but a Curse unless I'm flying my Heritic. I've told other that If I could do it again I would never of trained up for the curse. I love flying it, I love tweaking it and I still haven't finished training to pimp it yet.
You want to fly the curse/pilgrim then it is pretty much a never ending training cycle.
So long story short. If you don't want to fly anything but recons then go for them, they are fun ships to fly but take a lot of training time and isk to fly well.
Well I'm happy to read somebody who still enjoy flying a curse (or pilgrim), cause I've read so much post where people complain about them, or where they just affirm that they're the worst recon ships ever, that it was starting to frighten me a bit. To be honnest, after i gave up my first character which I trained like an ******* (fukcin caldaris man!) i had a hard time chosing between a minmatar and an amarr character, and by that time, what made me chose amarr was one thing, the CURSE! And since that time, now that I'm about to seriously skill for it (getting first an arbitrator and pimping it), i was starting to having doubts... Do ya use a cloak with your curse?
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:23:00 -
[22]
So to sum up, with a nano cloak curse that i use and skill up exclusively, i will have fun in 0.0 and i'll find enough prey to pop so i don't get bored... NICE!
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Deathhawk
MAFIA
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:26:00 -
[23]
pilgrim is a really good ship just gotta pick your fights same as with any ship... learn to use it and youll see how fun it is.
end.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Umar Khattab So to sum up, with a nano cloak curse that i use and skill up exclusively, i will have fun in 0.0 and i'll find enough prey to pop so i don't get bored... NICE!
Not to kill your happiness there, but the curse like any other t2 cruiser, you are going to need to learn to fly it well. That's something you only get through experience, and you will probably lose alot of em. GL. --
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis As for the Pilgrim: Drop the TD bonus, add range bonus to neut/nos. That way you would be able to engage from range, and not have to worry about throwing on as much tank as possible because you are in web range.
"add range bonus to neut/nos" >> how do you do that?
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Umar Khattab
Originally by: Marcus Druallis As for the Pilgrim: Drop the TD bonus, add range bonus to neut/nos. That way you would be able to engage from range, and not have to worry about throwing on as much tank as possible because you are in web range.
"add range bonus to neut/nos" >> how do you do that?
lol sorry, I didn't mean for you to do it. I was saying that is the fix it needs from the developers. Pilgrim CAN be a good ship. But you have to design your entire fit around ganking one type of ship, and then your targets are slim as ever. Just pointless (even though I have one lol) --
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Umar Khattab
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Umar Khattab So to sum up, with a nano cloak curse that i use and skill up exclusively, i will have fun in 0.0 and i'll find enough prey to pop so i don't get bored... NICE!
Not to kill your happiness there, but the curse like any other t2 cruiser, you are going to need to learn to fly it well. That's something you only get through experience, and you will probably lose alot of em. GL.
Yes, i realize that i'm still a noob in a assault frig :) but some perspective always give you some hope, at least enough to go through the long path of popping, deaths and bankrupt... thanks to the contingence, clones exists and what doesn't kill u makes you stronger :) Thanks man
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Lithel
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 23:56:00 -
[28]
The only thing I'd ever use a Pilgrim for would be to sneak up on 1, and I repeat, 1 lone single turret based target in 0.0, decloak and then kill him. If he gets any reinforcement that does not just happen to warp in on you within webbing range, you're screwed. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lithel The only thing I'd ever use a Pilgrim for would be to sneak up on 1, and I repeat, 1 lone single turret based target in 0.0, decloak and then kill him. If he gets any reinforcement that does not just happen to warp in on you within webbing range, you're screwed.
My assessment of the pilgrim as well. It's fun to take onto sisi and whack tanked hacs with it though. If the pilgrim was free I'd never fly much else. But its not, its actually about teh same as a geddon. Skrew that. ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only. |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:19:00 -
[30]
pilgrim is the hard mode of force recons tbh... takes alot of ingame playing skill to be good at it now :) kood knowladge of enemy ships fitings is a must so you dont mess up :)
only force recon i fly atm is the rapier, but when amarr cruier 5 is 5 on this char (have it on alt) im going to try pilgrim... ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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