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gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.11 06:09:00 -
[1]
So as it stands now, my business plan is as follows. I will use your invested isk to start alternate characters and spec them for profitable sales. This business plan is not subject to change, so rest easy that your ISK will be spent in a "relatively" risk free manner.
Average investment into each alt character: 1bil isk (180 Days GTC, Implants, and Skillbooks) Average amount of time (including sell time) for each character flip: 6 months My out of pocket expense for each character sale: 20$ for account transfer fee Amount of time invested switching between accounts to train skills: God only knows Net profit from every billion dollars invested: Approximately 2 billion
What you will get: 5% per month dividend paid on the last day of each month (for a total of 6 payments) 100% payout of your original investment after 6 months (Will be packaged with your final dividend payout) Total profit from your investment after 6 months: 30%
As you will see, if you do some research, I am a rather new character. The reason for this is that I have been flipping characters successfully (including my original main) while saving up isk. Once I flip a few more characters I will be cushioned with enough isk to buy the character I want, and fly it for the rest of my eve life without grinding isk ever again. Why do I need investors? The process is painfully slow when you have low capital. If you have any questions that I have not already answered (PLEASE read the post in it's entirety) feel free to contact me in-game and I will be happy to answer them. I'm online almost 24/7, and more than happy to discuss the arrangement with you.
Since I am an unknown name in the Market Forums here I will start off with a relatively low investment offer. After the first 6-month payoff is complete I will offer a larger investment opportunity for those that are interested in a repeat performance. NOTE: I will only be offering two investments. After the second offering is completely paid off, I will be out of the character flipping and bonding business forever.
The Offering: I am offering 20 shares at 100mil isk a piece for a total offering of 2bil isk.
The Timeline: This offer will close on April 30th 2008 at midnight central time (GMT-06:00) --Or when all shares are sold, whichever comes first The first dividend payout will be delivered on May 31st 2008 before midnight central time. The final dividend payment *your original investment included* will be paid on Halloween (October 31st 2008)
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gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.11 06:13:00 -
[2]
Confirm I will be the character to receive the ISK |
Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.04.11 07:31:00 -
[3]
Some points:
1) 5% return per month is very low for an unknown and no collateral (i.e. this a risky investment but without any corresponding payoff. I could put money in fury back with far more confidence and earn a higher return)
2) What kind of characters are you training up? PvPers? Industrialists? traders?
3) If there will only be payment after the 6 months is up then where does the money for the monthly dividend come from?
4) Given you are an unknown, would you be able to provide any collateral at all?
5) Over 6 months you could get a char to around 5-6 mil SPs (Unless I'm totally wrong, I only did a quick investigation). @ 200m per SP, that gives around 1bil-1.2bil. This seems backed up by a few recent sales of approx 7mil SP chars selling for 1.5 bil and 1.3 bil. On what basis do you think you will get 2 bil per char?
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.11 07:43:00 -
[4]
If you're going to be using real life funds for this (account transfer fee) wouldn't it be better for you to simply buy the ISK through GTC.
Also, I didn't think you could use a GTC to set up a new character - don't you need to pay CCP a setup fee?
I only have 1 character so entirely unfamiliar with how alts work - excuse me if my assumptions are wrong.
Deus Ex Machina ~ Eve Corporation, Web Design, Gaming News, Music & Gadgets Blog |
Tempest Kane
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.11 07:52:00 -
[5]
It is possible to pay a new char (fresh signup) with a GTC the first time. Not sure if your supposed to do it, but you physicaly can do it. __________________________________________ - Tempest Kane, Band Of Brothers.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.11 08:32:00 -
[6]
Ambo has some good points and some not so good points. Starting with the not so good point, a relatively specialised character in the handsof a capable "trainer" could reach 9 mil SP in 6 months easily (+3 implants, L4 in relevant basic and advanced learnings, good attributes, proper starting school, etc). BUT the good points are that you are a relatively unknown person, that your return is nothing to write home about, and the market you choose to do bussiness in is fickle at best... plus, it hinges on you spending some real-life money too (20$ every 6 months, with 2x90-day GTC costing 80$, that's 25% extra cost on top of equivalent spending... almost the same as if you'd just sell GTCs instead of doing this whole shebang).
1|2|3|4|5. |
gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.11 08:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: gilca on 11/04/2008 08:38:35 I will be training whatever character I deem to be the most profitable. Right now that seems to be the vagabond spec characters that can sell for 2-4bil isk depending on the whim of the character bazaare.
Why not invest real life money to buy the GTC's you say? The answer to that is pretty simple. Real life isk is a little tougher to come by, and I have more important things to spend it on like food, bills, internet, you know the essentials.
Now if you can find a better deal than 30% profit in 6 months, than please be my guest but I've offered a deal that I feel compensates for the risk incurred. You can feel free to pass your own judgement, I'm not going to beg.
akita: I will NOT be buying the GTC's with real life cash. This will be purchased out of the invested money from the bonds.
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gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.11 09:07:00 -
[8]
Oh and Akita is right. My record for highest SP in 180 days is 9.3mil SP which for a specced character is very profitable.
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Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.04.11 09:45:00 -
[9]
Care to clarify some points to help with the plan:
- Why dividends; where the ISK for them comes from? - You mentioned you have already sold (one) main char. What was his name, and still got link to the sell thread? (Adds your trustability if verified) - You were in Royal Hiigaran Navy for 5 days; think some of them could give some references? - Or in general, could you have a few of yours friends you've met while playing with your main come here and say "he's okay"?
- Could you consider using some trusted third party for a fee? That is, someone else will establish the char, train him according the plan you give, sell it to customer you point. He would (of course) pay the transfee fee, keep agreed amount of ISK, and give majority of ISK to you/share holders.
-Lasse always suspicious of new chars who haven't had chance to even run missions, or make friends
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2008.04.11 09:51:00 -
[10]
Please realise that with a 5% return a month, no one in MD will fund you, primarily because the two largest banks in EVE have accounts with higher return rates then that. Those two banks also are 99,9% trusted by the folks in MD. Also realise that because your very unknown in MD and the folks here, the investment is risky, higher risk => higher reward. I'm pretty confident that the venture will indeed be pofitable, but some folks might need some serious confincing of that. Raise it to 10% and people might be a lot more interested.
I don't know the specifics of the kind of character you want to create, but realise that if you plan well you can get by by with a lot fewer isk spent on GTC. Start with a two week trial account to push some learning skills up, then set a two week skill training (account goes dormant). Buy 30 day GTC (150M isk), train short skills for that period, then set a 30 day skill to train, then repeat. Effectively only 75M isk/month vs. 120M isk/month.
I have thought of a similar method to earn isk, but my only 'problem' is the $20/€20 transfer amount, that's effectively buying isk for me (legaly of course, but just a lot more efficient then with GTC sales).
While I'm in no position to invest in your opportunity, I might be interested in buying/ordering characters from you in six months time (I just need to make sure that my own opportunities raise enough isk).
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.04.11 10:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: gilca Now if you can find a better deal than 30% profit in 6 months, than please be my guest but I've offered a deal that I feel compensates for the risk incurred. You can feel free to pass your own judgement.
*shrugs* ok, will have to pass on this one then.
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Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.11 10:46:00 -
[12]
Quote: Now if you can find a better deal than 30% profit in 6 months, than please be my guest but I've offered a deal that I feel compensates for the risk incurred.
Dusk Blade has returned 63.6% of investors original investments in 6 months. The 30% mark was hit in 3 and a half. Just stating a fact.
Improve Market Competition! |
cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:59:00 -
[13]
Furybank which is highly trusted by most people on here, pays 1.4% per week interest = 5.6% per month.
This is about the safest investment out there and stills pays more than you.
You won't raise any money because you are an unknown and the return doesn not justify the investment.
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.11 15:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: gilca
Now if you can find a better deal than 30% profit in 6 months, than please be my guest but I've offered a deal that I feel compensates for the risk incurred. You can feel free to pass your own judgement.
Yesterday I sold 3B in bonds that work out to 5.55% per month and they're guaranteed. I'm amazed that you, a complete unknown with no track record and offering no security, think you can get a lower rate.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.11 16:04:00 -
[15]
Just for the hell of it, I looked up her date of birth, 2008.03.22 09:22 She changed corps for the first time, 2008.03.22 18:08
I think I smell an alt.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:51:00 -
[16]
I find this an odd business to even try to start.
1. Character prices are dropping, we've had several posts complaining about it recently here. In 6 months who knows how much lower they will be or which characters will even be wanted, it can change a lot in that time.
2. You are adverse to spending RL cash yet you have to spend RL cash to do this. Why not do something that doesn't require RL cash?
3. Who is your main? Without knowing who you really are and without you having some sort of collateral you don't have the reputation to offer such a pitiful monthly return. I doubt you'd get any investment at 7% with your lack of reputation. Even at 10% you'd prob get none, at 5% it's a joke.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:43:00 -
[17]
I came up with this business idea ages ago and it was incredibly profitable but when you take into account the GTCs you could buy with cash you'd be spending on the character transfer fee, the profitability drops somewhat. I have some figures from my own thought experiments back when I had this idea:
With an initial investment of 19,2b, I said I could make 10 trader alts, 10 production alts, 10 refiner alts and 5 ceo alts. I estimated their value (at a high valuation) at 60b. That was a net profit of 40.78b and a transfer fee of ú500. The transfer fee was valued at the 8.5b I could have gotten if I had bought gtcs with it and sold those instead, so I made an allowance for that and said that I should take that 8.5b away from the net profit and pretend that I've spent ú500 on GTCs for myself.
I then said that since I was flooding the market with characters, they would take some time to sell and so I would need an additional 30 day game time code with which to activate accounts as soon as the chars on them sold. This came to a total of 5.2b for the reactivation and 8.5b for the transfer fee, putting net profit after expenses down to around 26.95b. That's roughly 141% profit over around six months. This gives 23%/month real profit, which is comparable to good trading in-game and in-game trading doesn't need ú500.
Definitely profitable if you can be sure of characters selling for a decent amount but hardly something I'd call reliable and without an established reputation and a lot of disposable real life income, it's not a good idea.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: gilca on 11/04/2008 19:14:05 There's just not a high enough margin to justify better dividends.
P.S. A scammer would promise you the world to get your isk. Only someone who is truly interested in completing the business proposal would be so anal about the dividends and profit margins.
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Sarah Derell
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: gilca Only someone who is truly interested in completing the business proposal would be so anal about the dividends and profit margins.
This is the one section of the forum where we have proof on-hand that contradicts this. Additionally, your profit margins are fine and if what you have said already is true, you have enough isk to continue this without outside-investment. |
cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.04.11 20:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: gilca Edited by: gilca on 11/04/2008 19:36:21
P.S. A scammer would promise you the world to get your isk. Only someone who is truly interested in completing the business proposal would be so anal about the dividends and profit margins.
Actually this is the wrong assumption.
Due to scams or business failures any investments promising huge returns gets the "must be a scam" response. If it is too good to be true , it usually is.
Scammers have become better trying to design what looks to be legitimate IPO's to entice the 'cagey' investor.
The market has turned from potential returns to the actual business plan and risk analysis.
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: gilca Edited by: gilca on 11/04/2008 19:36:21
I'm just a girl trying to make a living, and there's just not a high enough margin to justify better dividends.
Originally by: gilca Total Investment each char: 1bil isk Transfer fee each char: 20$ (or approximately 150mil isk in GTC currency) Gross Profit: 3bil Interest Paid: 300mil isk Net Profit in my pocket: 1.7bil isk
As you can see there is a wide margin for profit.
So you're giving investors around 15% of the net profit but saying there is not enough profit to justify higher dividends?
Clearly there is a lot of room for far better dividends than you are giving. Bump your interest rate to 10% per month and you might actually get some investors and you'd still be walking away with around 1.4 bil per char for yourself.
I have to say though, I'd be out either way. Your lack of flexibility and stubborn refusal to listen to advice would not bode well for a business relationship in which you hold all the cards.
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Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Anas Damona
Caldari Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 02:57:00 -
[22]
Thinking about the 'Dutch Auction' plan for launching an IPO, here, what do people think is a reasonable return to make this venture worth a shot?
And to the OP, you admit you will be playing EVE with a totally different character in the future, so what is to stop you from just cutting loose with the money when the characters are all sold? If I wanted to scam people this would be the perfect way to do it.
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.04.12 03:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Anas Damona Thinking about the 'Dutch Auction' plan for launching an IPO, here, what do people think is a reasonable return to make this venture worth a shot?
And to the OP, you admit you will be playing EVE with a totally different character in the future, so what is to stop you from just cutting loose with the money when the characters are all sold? If I wanted to scam people this would be the perfect way to do it.
Set the rate per month and see what the market is willing to pay. You might be shocked how low people may go.
I would start the auction at say 15% per month, announce there is a hidden reserve on the bond (i.e max interest rate that you don't publish) for it to launch successfully, and see what happens.
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.12 06:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Just for the hell of it, I looked up her date of birth, 2008.03.22 09:22 She changed corps for the first time, 2008.03.22 18:08
I think I smell an alt.
Quoting that because it hasn't been addressed.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2008.04.12 07:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cergorach on 12/04/2008 07:29:34
Originally by: Shadarle
1. Character prices are dropping, we've had several posts complaining about it recently here. In 6 months who knows how much lower they will be or which characters will even be wanted, it can change a lot in that time.
Oh how selective your memory is. The complaint was about high SP characters, in that thread it was determined that 5-10m SP specialized characters would be the most profitable.
Originally by: Shadarle
2. You are adverse to spending RL cash yet you have to spend RL cash to do this. Why not do something that doesn't require RL cash?
She's effectively buying 2b isk for $40, instead of buying it for $200 with GTC, that is a big difference. It's even cheaper then buying it from Chinese farmers. Doing something that doesn't require RL cash is probably more risky, more time intensive, or the player just doesn't have the skill set for it.
Originally by: Shadarle
3. Who is your main? Without knowing who you really are and without you having some sort of collateral you don't have the reputation to offer such a pitiful monthly return.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Quoting that because it hasn't been addressed.
You folk need to read the opening post better, there is no main, this is the main character she now has. The original main has been 'flipped' already.
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Anas Damona
Caldari Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cergorach there is no main
Well that's ok then! Will you be investing yourself?
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neghsmke
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: neghsmke on 12/04/2008 08:25:11
I am as close to a main as gilca has. I'm the oldest currently retained character. I would be willing to raise the dividend slightly, but if there's no way for you to trust such a new character, then the point is moot. I'm open to suggestions on how to make this work.
Feel free to talk to the guys in Hooligans of War, 99 Problems, or the Immoral Dragons alliance for a character reference. All of them know me exclusively by this character name.
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gilca
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:26:00 -
[28]
Edited by: gilca on 12/04/2008 08:32:54 Confirm that gilca and neghsmke are one in the same. Oh and to address the issue of me switching characters and disappearing with the money. neghsmke will NOT be flipped within the 6 month period. I have bigger and hopefully more profitable plans for him.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Anas Damona
Originally by: Cergorach there is no main
Well that's ok then! Will you be investing yourself?
Do you have a reading disability or something? As I said earlier in the thread, I won't be investing in this 'oppertunity'. If you want to know why: 1.) The return is to low. 2.) Any cash I currently have on hand will be used in my own ventures (quadrupled my investments in 3-4 weeks), so it wouldn't be very smart of me to invest in something that has such a small margin of profit. |
Anas Damona
Caldari Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 10:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cergorach I won't be investing in this 'oppertunity'. If you want to know why: 1.) The return is to low.
Fair enough, it is low (It has been increased to 8% now though).
Originally by: Cergorach 2.) Any cash I currently have on hand will be used in my own ventures (quadrupled my investments in 3-4 weeks).
The OP was originally looking for 100 million per share, offering 5% per month over 6 months. If you can quadruple 100 million over 4 weeks I don't see what kind of return you'd look for in an IPO. However, if you are offering shares in this venture let me know, it sounds good!
Back to the offer, I think this is not a viable IPO. gilca/neghsmke, I think it would be better if the friends you mentioned front you the money. Maybe 4 guys who know you already can manage 500 million apiece. I can't see this gaining enough credibility for the public to buy in.
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