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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:08:00 -
[1]
The other day I was having a convo with a friend about the benefits of using 425mm autocannon's over the use of 220mm autocannons, it was then highlighted that 425's only pack 5% more dps and suffer a massive 30% less tracking than 220's, basically that means 425's give you about 20 more dps ignoring resists of course, if you use autocannons or not you surely have to accept that this is a broken game mechanic, the difference between the dps of 425's and 220's needs to be changed, the difference to dps in my opinion between the two sizes should be closer to around %10 especially when you take into consideration the extra grid required to fit them and the lack of tracking. I'm not going to be overly dissapointed if people don't agree with this, i'm just putting it out there, so don't flame please.
Discuss.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2008.04.12 08:58:00 -
[2]
Its no news that the high tier ACs aren't worth it most of the time because of the facts u mentioned.
The only use are plated gank setups where u have more than enough grid to spare and tracking isn't a big problem.
Personly i would like to see a slight damage increase on the 425s and 800s too.
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Conrad Rock
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:06:00 -
[3]
Any half-decent minmatar pilot knows to shut up about, because it's not the 425mm that is gimped, but the 220 is boosted.
Don't let the anti-minmatar whiners see this thread, delete your posts!
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:33:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Conrad Rock
Any half-decent minmatar pilot knows to shut up about, because it's not the 425mm that is gimped, but the 220 is boosted.
Don't let the anti-minmatar whiners see this thread, delete your posts!
Which is odd considering that some of the most popular setups (*coughvagabondscough*) use d180s.
d180s aren't that far behind 220s either.
Which leaves EVE medium guns in a pretty odd position.
Blasters have a pretty good progression from Electrons to Ions to Neutrons. Ions aren't as good as neutrons, but they don't suck either.
With Autocannons there is no use point in using the larger ones.
With pulse lasers people will go to extraordinary lengths to use heavy pulses instead of focused mediums.
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-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Conrad Rock
Any half-decent minmatar pilot knows to shut up about, because it's not the 425mm that is gimped, but the 220 is boosted.
Don't let the anti-minmatar whiners see this thread, delete your posts!
I find your post quite insulting and is borderline flaming/trolling, that is what I asked people not to do, firstly you said "any half decent minmatar pilot would know.." which more or less states that I am not half decent, also your statement about 220's being boosted is non constructive, to make such a claim you should state why and how they are boosted. And no I won't delete my post, that would close the discussion and that is not what I aim to achieve, if people wish to say that certain aspects of autocannon's are under powered or over powered then they are welcome to post, as long as they give a good reason as to why this is.
Let's be constructive and don't flame/troll please.
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General Meridus
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:52:00 -
[6]
Good Lord Neb, The guy was saying that as a jest. You know like: shhhh don't tell anyone about this neat secret.
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Kaleidon Reth
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kaleidon Reth on 12/04/2008 19:16:43
Edited by: Kaleidon Reth on 12/04/2008 19:13:26
Originally by: General Meridus
Good Lord Neb, The guy was saying that as a jest. You know like: shhhh don't tell anyone about this neat secret.
Actually Neb is 100% correct in his critic of the troll/flame post. It was insinuated that he was a ****ty pilot(and in EvE that for some reason means all your oppinions/arguments are automaticly stupid as well, don't ask me why).
Nice to see someone defend themselves intelligently from another ****poster for once, keep up the good work Neb.
Edit: and to stay on topic as well I must agree that upgrading your weapon size should provide a bit more substantial boost, althoug hit has to be done carefully so that there isn't always a need to squeeze the largest stuff on there. Like the situation described with Amarr where noone would even consider flying a ship if they couldn't get the largest cannons on there(although I dunno if that's the case, I don't fly Amarr). |
Dristra
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:32:00 -
[8]
Omg at grumpy and sensitive carebear strikeà (ThatÆs the impression I got)
If you post at eve forums you have to expect to wade through trolls and flames and harsh critic, the eve forum is a hard and cold place, and that is why almost every single post comes with sharp edges
Just put posts through your ôcommon senseö and ôgentle understandingö filters before complaining
Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.13 01:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/04/2008 01:25:20
RABBLE RABBLE.
I'm deliberately trolling this post because OP should shut up 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Gordon Red
SteelVipers
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.04.13 09:06:00 -
[10]
With higher weapons tiers normally the reach is increasing significant (as the DPS is only increasing slightly, the high ROF of the smaller verions compensation a lot).
But the autocannons getting only a little in optimal and nothing in fall-off. That's the main problem, because autocannons working over fall-off.
ATM the higher medium AC aren't worth fitting, because their PG could be used somewhere else better.
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Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.14 01:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nebulous
The other day I was having a convo with a friend about the benefits of using 425mm autocannon's over the use of 220mm autocannons, it was then highlighted that 425's only pack 5% more dps and suffer a massive 30% less tracking than 220's
425 tracking was fixed. The tracking difference is now only about 10%.
425 IIs: base tracking 0.1056
220 IIs: base tracking 0.1175
(0.1056 / 0.1175) x 100 = 89.872%
The DPS difference remains the same, approx 5%.
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I am Super Cool
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.14 05:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sirius Problem
Originally by: Nebulous
The other day I was having a convo with a friend about the benefits of using 425mm autocannon's over the use of 220mm autocannons, it was then highlighted that 425's only pack 5% more dps and suffer a massive 30% less tracking than 220's
425 tracking was fixed. The tracking difference is now only about 10%.
425 IIs: base tracking 0.1056
220 IIs: base tracking 0.1175
(0.1056 / 0.1175) x 100 = 89.872%
The DPS difference remains the same, approx 5%.
Yes you are right sorry  , but with that said there is still no logic to why anyone would use 425's over 220's, to fit 425's you would have to weaken your tank in my opinion and for 5% more DPS it really is not worth it.
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Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.14 12:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nebulous
Yes you are right sorry , but with that said there is still no logic to why anyone would use 425's over 220's, to fit 425's you would have to weaken your tank in my opinion and for 5% more DPS it really is not worth it.
More DPS is more DPS. And who says it will weaken your tank? I guess it depends on the ship to which you're fitting the guns and the tank you wish to implement. I often put 425s on my Hurricane, and they're pretty standard on a lot of Sleipner setups.
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I am Super Cool
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.14 12:34:00 -
[14]
IF you're shooting at larger ships, 425mms are fine, if you're shooting smaller ships, you will want 220mm against most cruisers and dual 180mms if you're kind of fast yourself or shoot at fast targtets.
I think each one has its use and the fitting requirements are really not high, even for 425mms (as easy as ion blasters), those are the easiest weapons to fit for close range.
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.04.14 23:55:00 -
[15]
Actually, except in fairly extreme circumstances when your damage is usually going to be laughable anyway, the high tiers of ACs are always best in sheer damage despite their tracking. The thing that makes them a pain is the fitting.
But when you compare them to other weapon system fitting, you have to ask whether the high tier ACs take too much, or the low tiers take too little. At least if you're going to attempt to be objective anyway.
Personally, I think they're fine, both in damage and fitting, except that I wish the AC tiers had a little falloff variation. 20% across a size class, like optimal, maybe less. Then there'd be better reasons to consider the high tiers.
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