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El Da
The Garbage Company
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:49:00 -
[1]
This is a problem I have seen many times when I tried to invite a friend into eve. I hope people (within the community) can find a solution & ideas for this.
I invited friends into eve mulitiply times but in each case they quited cause of the following 2 reasons:
1: Every single player who enters the game has to train the learning skills. Which take up a quite a long while before you have them on a good level. This can take round about atleast 2 months! Paying 2 months just to get learning skills up instead improving yourself in the harsh world eve is "unfair". - What I hope is that learning for the learning skills could be removed or give the full learning skills to the newbs but older players should recieve a good compensation for this too since they paid 2 months just to get the learning skills up!
2: Specialisation is important in eve. Specially if you want to go for pvp envirements. However EvE limits the specialisation route that some people want to take. Since the only way to make money is doing (combat wise) missions. Missions that require tanking & destroying. Why aren't there any missions that require Jamming/Dampening/Tackling/Spying? People will be able to specialise even more into what they want to fly. Those who have it "easy" are the damage dealers & tankers which I consider rather unfair. - What would be the solution for this? How could a ECM specialist do a mission & still earn good money for a scorpion? Would decrease in amount of NPC's (but stronger ones) in a mission help this?
I layed here 2 "problems" what the new players have to deal with. As far as I know everybody wants to play & have funn ASAP. There should be ofcourse still be line of learning & growing in the beginning. But waiting for to pvp effectivily like everybody wants could take up 6 months or more (except if you join goonfleet, however remember that everybody & CCP would love to see more small/medium gangs fighting eachother).
I would like to know from other players that are into industry if they have the same kind of problem? Is it difficult to get dirrectly into research & earn money from it?
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Zaiyo Modi
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:05:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 12/04/2008 21:14:11
You are outright lying and it ****es me off.
"Every single player who enters the game has to train the learning skills."
It would be fair to ask why learning skills were implemented, but you do not need maxed out skills even if you choose to train.
Same thing with other skills that might be seen as specialization.
I wish specialization were more rewarding, or rather feel more special. After a while, you can do ecm warfare fairly well, and probably lot of other things.
It might feel awkward spending 4 weeks to get to lvl 5 for some skill, but surely people aren't too bothered to invest more than 3 months of playtime into the game.
Could very well be that industrialists are having a difficult time, that area I am not too familiar with.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.13 01:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/04/2008 01:07:41
Hmmm.
A few days ago I made a trial account and a alt which I plan to train for hauling plus some stuff, maybe pew-pew as well (I wanted to try out Amarr ships).
I figured it'd be a nice experiment to see how much would it take me to have the alt on its feet and living in low-sec without transfering ISK from main. You'll laugh. Three hours and I was sitting on 2-3 M in a punisher in low-sec ratting (dual BC spawns are no issue for a punisher, and killing them alone gives you a new one) and stuff. It's easy - propulsion jamming I is hitting today so I might as well try to kill someone with it (I got my first podkill within two hours of playing, someone was in a flashy pod at station).
It's redicilously easy. Naturally, you'd want to train useful skills for the first 3-4 days, then a few learnings, then useful skills... but NOT learnings all the time. it's idiocy and would kill the fun and sense of progression in the game.
Also, I found out that I really like lazorz as a weapon system, even with noob cap skills and all.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.04.13 07:28:00 -
[4]
If peoiple quit because you tell them to learn all learning skills before they do anything else, then don't give them that advice! For Enjoyment reasons it absolutely sucks. "Train all learning skills to level 5 first" is alt-account advice, and not something you give to real players. Do recommend them to take a few quick levels of learning skills (with a focus on Int/Mem) but don't go the "U MUST TRAIN LEVEL 5!" route. That's just stupid and it seriously won't impact their character progression that much if they don't.
It doesn't take at all long to get Learning 4 and then advanced learning 4. Frankly, you could/should be in a cruiser in 2-4 days and a missionrunning BC in 3 weeks if they go the tank/gank route.
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-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Acidictadpole
White Moon Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.13 08:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Acidictadpole on 13/04/2008 08:30:55
Well, usually the players who want to have fun "ASAP" are the ones who I prefer not playing eve. Having fun means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and it's why I like EVE. It shows people right off the bat that patience is required, and if you don't have it the game isn't for you.
EVE is probably one of the harshest MMO's out there today, if not the most harsh. It is the only game I know of that you completely lose your fittings (gear) if you die. Nothing is staple on your character at all, everything can be lost.
You telling them to train learning skills first may be misleading, you need to tell them not to train them past the first tier or maybe a little before that. They need to experience the game for what it is not focus on their possible future.. I'm almost 2 years old and my learning skills aren't MAX (Most are 1 level behind what they are to be considered MAX'd) and I do just fine, I am learning empathy right now because I'm training leadership skills, but I'm fine and glad with training them now.
With regards to 2: Your reasoning behind it is a bit skewed, but I agree there should be more diverse missions, or maybe even choices within missions. Like your agent gives you an offer for a mission to kill some guy, he can offer you ships if you can keep the enemies jammed, or keep the friendlies remote repped. Or you can decide to go it alone, with less enemies or something. It would add a little bit of diversity to the "kill or courier" sense of missions but that's the only reason I'd suggest it. If they want to go a PVP route (Jamming, and EW) then they should use it for PVP, not PVE.
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Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 17:32:00 -
[6]
being new is hard if you have any kind of expectations, or MMO experience. I started with a clean slate, i had no idea what the MMO experience would be like, and dont know how i would feel about it. Basically, I spent a month missioning up and watching this whole universe around me... Once you get into a corp, you see older players with all the cool stuff, and you realize that you have to wait months/years to get to where they are. But thats the game, thats what EVE is about, tough, difficult, long learning curve.
What i have seen lately, are people coming from other MMOs and they dont "get" it, they don't get the brutality of the game, or understand that patience is not only a virtue, it will keep you sane as you try and play. To really have fun, you need other people for EVERYTHING except certain indy stuff, and then for you to have fun, you have to make other people miserable...
The hardest part is that most people want to PVP, some like industry/trade but the majority like to fight, and you start off missioning by learning how to tank, and then you get to the PVP side of it and its such a drastic change, people have strange convictions to commitments to fight and stuff its just head scratching... the ones who make it will find a very enjoyable experience, the ones who get stuck complain 24/7 on the forums
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Rodanine
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.14 05:26:00 -
[7]
1. when i started this game last year on the advice of a friend they told me i needed to train up my learning skills too level 5. guess what i didn't take the advice. did it hurt me skill point wise not really are they all lvl 5 now? No advanced are at 4 the rest are at 5.
so i can't blame the people for suggesting you train the learning skills up when you start but i can blame the people who take that advice and then complain about their choice to do so cause all they can fly still is frigate.
you want to give friends advice when they start the game don't let it be learning skills get them to train gunnery or ship skills till they get to comfortable enough lvl they can do fun stuff while they train those long boring learning skills.
2. as for your 2nd problem you are aware thats why you can do missions in fleets right so the people wanting to specialize in pvp stuff can practice how well their skills and equipment works while someone else takes the pounding from the npc rats just my thought on those wanting to do the things you mention
As for industrial characters isn't that why their is courier agents? All the ones i know can fight pretty good after they abandoned the industrial lifestyle to do kill missions and salvage to get the goods to make their rigs...
yes this is an ALT
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Thukker Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.14 05:31:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: El Da
This is a problem I have seen many times when I tried to invite a friend into eve. I hope people (within the community) can find a solution & ideas for this.
I invited friends into eve mulitiply times but in each case they quited cause of the following 2 reasons:
1: Every single player who enters the game has to train the learning skills. Which take up a quite a long while before you have them on a good level. This can take round about atleast 2 months! Paying 2 months just to get learning skills up instead improving yourself in the harsh world eve is "unfair". - What I hope is that learning for the learning skills could be removed or give the full learning skills to the newbs but older players should recieve a good compensation for this too since they paid 2 months just to get the learning skills up!
2: Specialisation is important in eve. Specially if you want to go for pvp envirements. However EvE limits the specialisation route that some people want to take. Since the only way to make money is doing (combat wise) missions. Missions that require tanking & destroying. Why aren't there any missions that require Jamming/Dampening/Tackling/Spying? People will be able to specialise even more into what they want to fly. Those who have it "easy" are the damage dealers & tankers which I consider rather unfair. - What would be the solution for this? How could a ECM specialist do a mission & still earn good money for a scorpion? Would decrease in amount of NPC's (but stronger ones) in a mission help this?
I layed here 2 "problems" what the new players have to deal with. As far as I know everybody wants to play & have funn ASAP. There should be ofcourse still be line of learning & growing in the beginning. But waiting for to pvp effectivily like everybody wants could take up 6 months or more (except if you join goonfleet, however remember that everybody & CCP would love to see more small/medium gangs fighting eachother).
I would like to know from other players that are into industry if they have the same kind of problem? Is it difficult to get dirrectly into research & earn money from it?
While I see your point I'm afraid I have to disagree with any further boosts to new starter's, what anyone new that reads this has to realise is that you have it a lot better now than when I started nearly five years ago, back then it was basically "here is your rookie ship...........bye!", it is much easier to make money these day's as well.
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Svekke
Minmatar
Frequent Flyers
Tartarus Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.14 07:23:00 -
[9]
When I started out I took a few gunnery skills, made sure I could fit a fast firgate and destroyer, went to do lev 1 missions and high sec belt ratting while I trained the learning skills. And it was darn fun.
Other things a new character can do is sit in jita and buy/sell to make money. Made 70 mil isk and started out with 5k from an alt.
What else can you, the old player do? If you are quite long in the game, just make a trial account and train learning skills untill the trial ends, and then buy a GTC ingame, costs you 150 mil, and either let your buddy play it or finish the leaning skills.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: El Da
1: Every single player who enters the game has to train the learning skills. Which take up a quite a long while before you have them on a good level. This can take round about atleast 2 months!
You failed at explaining your friends what level of learning skills is really important.
Most important is having fun. When someone begins, don't tell him to train all learning skills straight! It's horrible, I did it taking close to nothing in useful skills at that time, but I'm quite stubborn and I hooked at eve gameplay at 200%, I knew I was staying. But it was still a bad move (even more with the advanced learnings requiring lvl 5 of the basics at the time I joined).
Now, what do I tell to newbies? Train all basic at lvl 3, then train a pack of useful skills at lvl 2-3. Then train basics at 4 and advanced at 2, train how to use better a cruiser (involves no level 5 many level 3 and some 4). Then train advanced at 3 and learn how to use more the cruiser (which involves training to level 4 all related skills) and finally train advanced at lvl 4, more if they wish...
I just think that telling the newbies they HAVE to train them straight is misguiding them. Anyway, removing learnings would do no harm with proper compensation to those that already have them. But it sounds like CCP is against any moving of skillpoints that would make people train faster the FOTM.
Originally by: El Da
2: Specialisation is important in eve. Specially if you want to go for pvp envirements. However EvE limits the specialisation route that some people want to take. Since the only way to make money is doing (combat wise) missions. Missions that require tanking & destroying. Why aren't there any missions that require Jamming/Dampening/Tackling/Spying?
Some missions requires just a fast ship to complete, but agents give all kinds of missions. You can complete recon without a shot. You can complete a cargo delivery this way too.
Originally by: El Da
People will be able to specialise even more into what they want to fly. Those who have it "easy" are the damage dealers & tankers which I consider rather unfair. - What would be the solution for this? How could a ECM specialist do a mission & still earn good money for a scorpion? Would decrease in amount of NPC's (but stronger ones) in a mission help this?
CCP talked once about making PvE closer to PvP, I think there was something about fewer stronger NPCs.
Originally by: El Da
I layed here 2 "problems" what the new players have to deal with. As far as I know everybody wants to play & have funn ASAP. There should be ofcourse still be line of learning & growing in the beginning. But waiting for to pvp effectivily like everybody wants could take up 6 months or more (except if you join goonfleet, however remember that everybody & CCP would love to see more small/medium gangs fighting eachother).
A cheap tackler is always good to take. A swarm of crap frigates do the job if you're ready to loose half of them. And that's not goonswarm's exclusivity.
Originally by: El Da
I would like to know from other players that are into industry if they have the same kind of problem? Is it difficult to get dirrectly into research & earn money from it?
Joining an industrial corporation will offer newbies opportunities to participate in industry. After training some basics not to waste materials and some science skills for T2 production, older players that run invention give manufacturing jobs to newbies (10 slots is never enough, so they are needed). At least it works like this in my corporation.
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Assault Frigates MK II |
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