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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Rakivic
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 01:31:14 So her is one for the record booksą..now I wont go complaining that a GM took my isk or anything like that because we all know buying isk is wrong but this is what happened to me:
I sold a time code to some guy that bought it using isk that be bought with cash from an isk venderą..so ccp takes the isk he paid me (leaving me with -1.1b) I file a petition and the responding GM tells me basically that it is ōpolicyö. So here is my beef why punish me? I hade no clue where the isk came from all I know is I got the isk for my time codeąą..go after the guy who bought the isk with cash in the first place. Why screw someone over that hasnĘt done anything wrong?
Now IĘm stuck ratting to get my balance up enough to go do market transactions because apparently you canĘt with a negative bank balanceąą..have you ever tried ratting to make 1.1b?? Not easy
To be honest all this is making me consider visiting one of them isk venders just to get my in game account back up to 0 isk ( I wonĘt but the thought crossed my mind)
So what do you all think out there is this fair? Or what is your thoughts on it because IĘd like to hear them
----------------------------------------------- [Image Removed] CCP did not like my signature so I had to replace it with this one |
Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:31:00 -
[2]
If your transaction through the official and secure GTC stuff is where you got your ISK through, you shouldn't have had it removed. I'd ask to have your petition escalated. -----
Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked.
"Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:35:00 -
[3]
Ask for replacement GTCs from the vendor you got them from as obviously they were defective/not honored by CCP. If vendor refuses, contact your credit card company that you purchased the GTCs with (if you didn't use a cc, then too bad) and ask for a charge back. It is actually a fairly easy process.
Don't bother petitioning the GMs; they just don't care, so go straight to the vendor.
And regardless of what any forum troll says that it can't be done, blah, blah, just ignore. The reason you use a credit card online is for the consumer protection against actions like this. You purchased something and it didn't work as it was intended, end of story, get your money back.
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Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lord XSiV Ask for replacement GTCs from the vendor you got them from as obviously they were defective/not honored by CCP. If vendor refuses, contact your credit card company that you purchased the GTCs with (if you didn't use a cc, then too bad) and ask for a charge back. It is actually a fairly easy process.
Don't bother petitioning the GMs; they just don't care, so go straight to the vendor.
And regardless of what any forum troll says that it can't be done, blah, blah, just ignore. The reason you use a credit card online is for the consumer protection against actions like this. You purchased something and it didn't work as it was intended, end of story, get your money back.
I thought the secure system ensured said GTC was supposed to be legitimate at the time of the transaction. There should have been a record of a GTC transaction in your wallet journal too. -----
Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked.
"Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:37:00 -
[5]
He paid you 1.1 billion isk for a GTC?
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
Originally by: Lord XSiV Ask for replacement GTCs from the vendor you got them from as obviously they were defective/not honored by CCP. If vendor refuses, contact your credit card company that you purchased the GTCs with (if you didn't use a cc, then too bad) and ask for a charge back. It is actually a fairly easy process.
Don't bother petitioning the GMs; they just don't care, so go straight to the vendor.
And regardless of what any forum troll says that it can't be done, blah, blah, just ignore. The reason you use a credit card online is for the consumer protection against actions like this. You purchased something and it didn't work as it was intended, end of story, get your money back.
I thought the secure system ensured said GTC was supposed to be legitimate at the time of the transaction. There should have been a record of a GTC transaction in your wallet journal too.
You forgot to take into consideration the EULA. CCP can do whatever they want in the game, and well quite frankly you agreed to allow them to. Your only recourse in this case is to ask for a refund from the GTC reseller as for all you know, they sold you something defective.
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Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:44:00 -
[7]
I understand that part. A "We can do whatever we want clause" is standard in any persistent game.
However, with that said I'd like to know if it is a "We can do whatever we want" issue, or whether or not it is a legitimate bust. I'm curious because I want to ensure that if I were to do a GTC transaction, I don't get given the shaft. |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:54:00 -
[8]
Sounds to me like he probably didn't use the secure system to sell the timecard with, as it's against the rules to not do so.
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh I understand that part. A "We can do whatever we want clause" is standard in any persistent game.
However, with that said I'd like to know if it is a "We can do whatever we want" issue, or whether or not it is a legitimate bust. I'm curious because I want to ensure that if I were to do a GTC transaction, I don't get given the shaft.
Would it even matter?
Not like they let us know. Not like there is any such 'rights' to let us know either. It isn't until you exit the gameworld into the real world before you get any type of 'right'.
The only protection you have is through your credit card company. It does make sense that CCP uses resellers for selling GTCs rather then selling direct to players don't you think?
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Rakivic
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:02:06 I used the "proper method" on this website to sell them that is why I am so p.i.s.s.e.d because CCP wont give me my isk back
and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total |
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:02:00 -
[11]
I'd be way mad. Escalate that big time. If I spent $15+ on GTC's, sold them through the forums using the secure transfer (the only way allowed), then got ALL the isk taken away because someone used illegitimate money? Yeah, give me back my GTC's then...
That's what I'd say at least... |
Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:03:00 -
[12]
You do have a record in your Wallet's Journal regarding the GTC sales right? |
charming wanderer
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:04:00 -
[13]
TBH this situation is pretty lame CCP...
The guy who paid for the isk with his RL money buys 6 months worth of game time at some greatly reduced price and continues playing, yet the OP gets stuck with the bill... |
xeneon
Amarr Xen Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rakivic and it was not just for one time code he bought 2X90 day time codes for 550m each which is 1.1b total
550m for a 90d GTC?
when did you sell these?
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:06:00 -
[15]
We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
As mentioned by 5pinDizzy, using the secure system is required for time code trading.
If this is not the case and your ISK was somehow removed, please ask for your case to be reviewed further.
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Cutie Chaser
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 18/04/2008 02:11:26 Did the buyer pay 1.1bil for a single time card?
I ask because that would be a sneaky way to sell ISK, buying horribly overpriced GTCs. Buy pays xxx dollars to the seller through a CC, then pays a $15 'transaction fee' to buy the seller a GTC, getting huge piles of ISK in return. For the price of 30 days of playtime you could transfer your ISK right under CCP's noses :P
Of course it would be horribly easy to track if they ever bothered to look through the logs, a 30day card bought for 5 bil would seem a tad fishy :P
EDIT: on a side note GM Krymus if you guys don't keep on eye on those transactions, it might be worth a look. Not related to the OP of course, but more of a general thing.
*** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: charming wanderer TBH this situation is pretty lame CCP...
The guy who paid for the isk with his RL money buys 6 months worth of game time at some greatly reduced price and continues playing, yet the OP gets stuck with the bill...
We don't know the full details, it's not fair to blast CCP on this either. -----
Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked.
"Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: charming wanderer TBH this situation is pretty lame CCP...
The guy who paid for the isk with his RL money buys 6 months worth of game time at some greatly reduced price and continues playing, yet the OP gets stuck with the bill...
It maybe lame, but it is within CCP's rights to do it. In fact, they can do it for whatever reason they want, or for no reason at all. Kind of reminds about one of the old ISS commercials where a guy is deleting a companies files one at a time while shaving in the bathroom after finding out he was getting fired that day from an accidental email....
The only thing that can be done is to talk to the GTC resellers. You want a refund or replacement for a defective product which is a legitimate claim. If they fail to do so, contact your credit card company for a refund - this is no different from being a victim of any other internet based fraud. At that point it will affect the reseller's merchant account and the cc processing fees will go up. Eventually they will stop reselling GTCs and that will affect CCP's bottom line and possibly there maybe a policy change but nothing is guaranteed.
An informed and educated consumer does have some powerful influence. Just the first part needs to be emphasized.
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Rakivic
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:14:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Rakivic on 18/04/2008 02:15:24 Ya i got the market transactions I just added a screen shot of it to the petition and asked to have it reviewed by a seniour GM
the guy was a "friend" with a 6 month character it never croseed my mind that he would actualy buy isk
my thought is he did it before and never got cought....tried it this time and got busted
I beter get my dam isk back this is enugh to seriously make me consider quitting (no wise remarks about "can I have your stuf" eather...never actualy said I was quitting it all depends on the out come of the petition) ----------------------------------------------- [Image Removed] CCP did not like my signature so I had to replace it with this one |
Shaun Klaroh
Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lord XSiV The only thing that can be done is to talk to the GTC resellers. You want a refund or replacement for a defective product which is a legitimate claim. If they fail to do so, contact your credit card company for a refund - this is no different from being a victim of any other internet based fraud.
The problem here is that the GTC apparently was a valid code! You can't initiate anything on this since the secure system allowed it, the card and subsequently it's code were used in a valid transaction. (According to OP) |
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:26:00 -
[21]
**** the stuff you can keep them ,where is raki ?
Originally by: Rakivic
(no wise remarks about "can I have your stuf" eather...never actualy said I was quitting it all depends on the out come of the petition)
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: GM Krymus We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
As mentioned by 5pinDizzy, using the secure system is required for time code trading.
If this is not the case and your ISK was somehow removed, please ask for your case to be reviewed further.
That is actually kind of scary that you can't confidently state that it isn't possible to have a reversal if you used the secure GTC system. Reason being either:
1. Your GMs aren't following some internal policy 2. The secure GTC system isn't actually a 'secure' method
It really does bring into question credibility; how are consumers expected to trust a system if you can't assure the aforementioned aren't being handled? I guess it ends up being even worse if players do come up with examples of such reversals using the secure GTC system. Maybe the op will post screenshots for us.
Also would make you kind of wonder what CCP does with all our personal information they have on file. Some might further be curious as to whether they actually are PCI compliant as they said claim to be; would be interesting to find out what an audit would find.
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
Originally by: Lord XSiV The only thing that can be done is to talk to the GTC resellers. You want a refund or replacement for a defective product which is a legitimate claim. If they fail to do so, contact your credit card company for a refund - this is no different from being a victim of any other internet based fraud.
The problem here is that the GTC apparently was a valid code! You can't initiate anything on this since the secure system allowed it, the card and subsequently it's code were used in a valid transaction. (According to OP)
No, it would still be deemed defective regardless of who said it was valid or not. Ultimately, the purchaser never recieved the product or service. It is quite simple.
Credit card companies side with the consumer; if the reseller can't prove that the purchaser recieved and is getting x amount of game time for which was purchased then the charge will be reversed.
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sugark
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:35:00 -
[24]
Edited by: sugark on 18/04/2008 02:35:42
Originally by: Lord XSiV
That is actually kind of scary that you can't confidently state that it isn't possible to have a reversal if you used the secure GTC system. Reason being either:
1. Your GMs aren't following some internal policy 2. The secure GTC system isn't actually a 'secure' method
It really does bring into question credibility; how are consumers expected to trust a system if you can't assure the aforementioned aren't being handled? I guess it ends up being even worse if players do come up with examples of such reversals using the secure GTC system. Maybe the op will post screenshots for us.
Also would make you kind of wonder what CCP does with all our personal information they have on file. Some might further be curious as to whether they actually are PCI compliant as they said claim to be; would be interesting to find out what an audit would find.
Every system has the potential of being flawed - regardless of how secure it is. Looking into it when there are complaints is the only professional thing to do IMO and serves only to strengthen trust in it by proving if it worked as intended and fixing if it didn¦t.
edit: with "proving" i don¦t mean go public with it, but internal proof. _______________________________________________
Click pic to get a sig! |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.04.18 02:37:00 -
[25]
Number One: Official Reply by a GM, Good.
Originally by: GM Krymus We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
As mentioned by 5pinDizzy, using the secure system is required for time code trading.
If this is not the case and your ISK was somehow removed, please ask for your case to be reviewed further.
Number two: You followed through.
Originally by: Rakivic ... asked to have it reviewed by a seniour GM...
Number Three: Once the situation is resolved, please make sure and post here, so we can all see that CCP works as intended, and will not punish innocent parties.
This way this thread can be used as a precedent, in the future, if an oversight like this happens.
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Number One: Official Reply by a GM, Good.
Originally by: GM Krymus We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
As mentioned by 5pinDizzy, using the secure system is required for time code trading.
If this is not the case and your ISK was somehow removed, please ask for your case to be reviewed further.
Number two: You followed through.
Originally by: Rakivic ... asked to have it reviewed by a seniour GM...
Number Three: Once the situation is resolved, please make sure and post here, so we can all see that CCP works as intended, and will not punish innocent parties.
This way this thread can be used as a precedent, in the future, if an oversight like this happens.
You are wrong. If he did use the GTC system and the isk was reversed then as a player he was punished for having to unecessarily go through a supposedly secure process.
You should clarify Number Three to be dependent on whether the secure GTC system was used or not and whether it is truly a safe system for players to use as promoted by CCP.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:17:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: GM Krymus We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
That is actually kind of scary that you can't confidently state that it isn't possible to have a reversal if you used the secure GTC system.
Are you stupid?
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Count Bolton
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:24:00 -
[28]
Just to clarify, it's CCP's EULA that states they can do whatever they want with their game, because it is their property.
However, when you buy a game card from CCP, that game card is no longer their property, it is your property. That is why you can sell them, trade them, and ultimately transfer ownership of the game card itself. CCP either has to honor the value of their game card, or give you a refund, otherwise they are in violation of many trade regulations of various countries. And when it comes to EULA versus actual laws, the EULA falls flat on its face, as proven countless times in court.
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Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: GM Krymus We do not reverse secure time code transactions. If someone buys a time code from another player through the secure system, the seller of the time code will not have the ISK removed.
That is actually kind of scary that you can't confidently state that it isn't possible to have a reversal if you used the secure GTC system.
Are you stupid?
Short answer, no. Long answer, I am assuming that you have some trouble with comprehension skills. Please ask your caretaker to explain the statement for which you are havings issues understanding.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.18 03:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Short answer, no. Long answer, I am assuming that you have some trouble with comprehension skills. Please ask your caretaker to explain the statement for which you are havings issues understanding.
I'm not the one who acused someone of not being able to confidently state something in reply to a post where he did in fact very confidently state exactly that. I think my comprehension skills are not the ones in question here. |
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