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Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
49
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Posted - 2012.02.29 21:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:I didn't think it was possible for you to make yourself, and your position, any more foolish or lol-worthy. In this case, KB stats have no bearing on the topic under discussion.
To be fair, his position that people should have to be present in order to be disruptive does make some sense. It's the idea that the problem lies in AFK cloaking that's laughable. Using local as a lazy means of intel is the problem. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
438
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Posted - 2012.02.29 21:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Torothin wrote:AFK cloaking to disrupt activity is mega gaming. Too many people make assumptions. This isn't a thread to complain. But again if you are going to disrupt industry then you should disrupt industry while being present at your computer. This is right up there with botting.
So... hypothetically... if some other alliance decides to threaten your alliance with their massive epeen(s)... your alliance mobilizes over the "perceived" threat of this in an area it thinks it will be attacked... and then the aforementioned alliance does nothing. Weeks later, after your alliance has relaxed a bit, the other alliance attacks with their massive epeen(s), in a system you never thought they would attack, and utterly crush you.
Should this whole scenario be "nerfed" as well? Because it is "meta-gaming" by definition. Both sides are making assumptions about the other's assumptions and the whole thing disrupts activity for one side without ever being near a computer. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Kirith Vespira
Border Zone Excursions
11
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Posted - 2012.02.29 23:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
Torothin wrote:Something needs to be done about this.
Sorry, I still don't see what the problem is. Are you getting ulcers worrying about a cloaked ship in your high sec belt? Are you at war, and concerned you're being watched? Are you concerned someone might sneak up on you while you're afk mining and steal 53 units of veld from your jetcan?
I don't get it, sorry.
ps: after wasting a few minutes to read other replies, it looks like this is nothing more than a Whine-Fest thread. My bad for feeding the whinage. |
Jadzia Narys
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
5
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Posted - 2012.02.29 23:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Was going to comment, Then I saw people using their KB to prove how they are right. LOL
"im kind of a big deal" |
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
5
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Posted - 2012.03.01 00:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
Roime wrote:I live in w-space and find instant local chat intel a failed mechanic.
Anyway I still think that introducing cloak fuel could be quite interesting, for both the cloaker and the targets. Just like submarines have to sufrace some day, so would the cloaker. Or then sneak out of the system while you still have fuel.
More gameplay, a new consumable item, wouldn't hurt the primary use of cloaks, but would prevent eternal cloaking.
Just to clarify: No manual cycles or cap usage, but a fuel bay that could hold fuel for what, say, 6-12 hours? Anyway plenty enough that you could cloak our ass out during a normal play session. If you would want to cloak for longer, have a hauler anchor a small can for you in a SS, or another cloakie bring fuel for you.
Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital
You don't like having local, you living in W-Space I like having local, I live in K-Space
Cloak fuel... I do like that idea. make it a consumable item you need to keep in your cargo hold or something, maybe an ice product so that it cant be monopolized like moon mining. Give cloaky ships a bonus to fuel usage or a special fuel bay, and make it impossible to cloak capitals.
End the cloaky ratting carriers
Bad Messenger wrote:i approve that we could remove afk cloaking, but only if they remove poses too and other safe spots that makes possible to be invulnerable to attacks in 0.0.
Its called combat scanner probes, I reccomened you use them :) Hard to stay safe in a safe spot if your being probed. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
440
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Posted - 2012.03.01 02:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital
Suck it up buttercup. In low-sec and high-sec you are in local with a bunch of people... half of which you do not know and may or may not be spy alts from the "enemy." Hell... even if the guy is in YOUR militia he/she may be a spy and feed intel about your whereabouts. Yet many of us run level 5 missions, FW missions, rat in belts, run anomalies, move haulers to and fro...
... and yet you complain about one man... ONE... MAN... cloaked up... in a system you have more than 50 buddies flying around in at any given time... in a system where all your equipment is at... and this ONE CLOAKED UP MAN prevents you from doing ANYTHING????
You are aware that this makes high-sec wannabe pirates sound more "hardcore" than you... right?
/lolrant
Okay... serious response... ... this is exactly WHY "afk cloaking" exists. As soon as a non-red appears in local, everyone in system "safes" up... and the only way to get around this "instant intel" is to devalue it with a single guy who is always "present."
Now if you give me a way to take 10 guys in frigates into 0.0 and do actual damage to the people in it... only then might I consider a "rework" on cloaking to prevent afk-cloaking. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
evil art
The Forgotten Navy Gentlemen's Agreement
0
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Posted - 2012.03.01 03:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
remove local then so i dont have to afk for 10 days. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
3
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Posted - 2012.03.01 03:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
Torothin wrote:I'm sorry but seeing afk cloakers in every system whose job is to just scare miners is stupid. Even when we set these guys up and kill them we come back to find more afk cloakers who occasionally decloak to shoot some torps at cans people have mined. These guys go hours on end afk cloaking. Therefore I think it's best that cloaking either requires cap or requires you be active in order to cycle an activation timer.
Something needs to be done about this. The days of sitting non-chalantly afk cloaked for hours on end needs to stop. CCP at least make these people have to be active in order to maintain a cloak. Discuss!
No. There must be a risk to every reward - Including mining. Cloaks are fine as they are. wtf - why won't signatures delete? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
3
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Posted - 2012.03.01 09:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
Torothin wrote:I am not talking about pvp here. I'm talking about afk cloakers. I have no problem if the cloakers decide to engage. There is a difference. Again, this is a flawed mechanic and as of yet nobody has justified as to why a cycle cloak should not be introduced. If you are going to disrupt industry as pointed on then you must disrupt industry while being present at your computer.
They do engage. Just undock a Hulk or Noctis and they won't stay cloaky for too long. You can't fix something that isn't broken.
Kinda getting sick of the 'I am Scared of people who are Afk threads'
It might be time for everyone to start hassling CCP for a cloak buff just to counter the people wanting a nerf. I would run with - CCP plz make Covert ops cloaks work on HAC's.
Anyhow - there is already a counter to a cloaky who attacks - fit a warp stab or two. If they are afk - they wont attack so no threat at all. This leaves you very safe unless you are also an afker.
Problem solved - not even gonna charge you any isks.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
357
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Posted - 2012.03.01 09:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
3/10 |
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Diablo Ex
Pro Synergy ACE WRECKING COMPANY
0
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Posted - 2012.03.01 13:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
If you have an AFK cloaker problem in your system, what you really have is an "Immigration" problem. The solution is guarding the gates and access points better. Believe me, I've lost numerous cloakies to gatecamps. That's their point of vulnerability.
1) Post a competent PvP gatecamp on the gates. 2) Move your vulnerable/tempting non-combatants out of system.
Now your AFK'er is in a prison cell, contained and neutralized. If that's not good enough, it sounds like you need CONCORD to protect you, so HTFU or head back to Highsec and let someone who wants to be there have a chance.
AFK Psy Ops Command Cyno-Cloaky Brings it to you - Any Time - Hot and Fresh |
Elistea
G U N G N I R Y G G D R A S I L
65
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Posted - 2012.03.01 13:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
Torothin wrote:I'm sorry but seeing afk cloakers in every system whose job is to just scare miners is stupid. Even when we set these guys up and kill them we come back to find more afk cloakers who occasionally decloak to shoot some torps at cans people have mined. These guys go hours on end afk cloaking. Therefore I think it's best that cloaking either requires cap or requires you be active in order to cycle an activation timer.
Something needs to be done about this. The days of sitting non-chalantly afk cloaked for hours on end needs to stop. CCP at least make these people have to be active in order to maintain a cloak. Discuss!
We need T4 hulk with permanent cloak - Problem solved (also Cloakqal would be nice). |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
56
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Posted - 2012.03.01 13:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
the afk cloaker has been fixed ages ago.
theres a little box called local, you can see who's active. if the big evol pilot is being cloaked afk, move to the next system or park some combat ships around your precious mining fleet
seriously, stop making an isue about this. learn to work with it. if youd spend half the time you spend whining about it on finding a solution you'd have made billions by now |
Torothin
Paragon. Elite Space Guild
36
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Posted - 2012.03.01 14:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dealing with it is not the issue. As stated above. Like many of you have said. It is an effective and legit way to disrupt the industry of an entity. But in order to do industry in 0.0 one must be active. Therefore if one is to disrupt industry in 0.0, one should also be active. That is my argument. It is mega gaming. Don't sit there and tell me this is not a valid argument.. |
Ikech
Godless Horizon.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.01 15:09:00 -
[75] - Quote
i got another idea that doesnt include breaking stealth bombers...mine in a different system? if they follow you...there not afk! |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
24
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Posted - 2012.03.01 18:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Torothin wrote:Dealing with it is not the issue. As stated above. Like many of you have said. It is an effective and legit way to disrupt the industry of an entity. But in order to do industry in 0.0 one must be active. Therefore if one is to disrupt industry in 0.0, one should also be active. That is my argument. It is mega gaming. Don't sit there and tell me this is not a valid argument..
You missed it. People are saying due to local providing you free intel, they have to afk in system in order strike when it is unexpected, the only way for them to throw you off, since you've been given free intel, is to make that free intel you recieved unreliable.
What you want, and are asking for is to make it less risky to run your industrial activity. If these people didn't show up in local when cloaked, what purpose would there be to sit afk cloaked? It would have no psychological affect on you, and wouldn't disrupt your gaming, the only disruption at that point would be when they attack. Which you wont go for that kind of change because you're too soft, if you can't deal with low sec/null then don't go. |
Torijace
Industrial Anarchy
0
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Gah..!! eve forums ate my post so here is the short version
System Communication Array: POS structure with long online time that enables local. Without this structure local channel would be set to passive just like WH space. Would make null sec fun to fly in again IMO and make afk cloaking almost pointless
Cloak Disruptor: not my idea but i like it 40k range 20 second cycle time non-auto repeat decloaks anything in range (including friendlies)
My two cents |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.03.01 21:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Quote:Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital If reds show up in your system and there is no local, not only do you not know they are there....they do not know YOU are there. Unless, ofc, they use d-scan and you are in range. Poor afk cloakers could be in a big, empty system and never know it :).
Honestly, I couldn't care less either way, but at least think partially through the logic. |
Scoto Timta
EveMerc's
5
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Posted - 2012.03.01 22:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital I think what you meant to say was... "to avoid reds showing up in your system and popping you 1) watching the gates 2) using dscan 3) using combat probes 4) staying aligned 5) paying attention is vital"
No? That wasn't what you meant to say? Oooohhhh, then you must have just left out a few words. I'll fix it for you....
M1k3y Koontz wrote:to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you WHILE YOU ARE BEING LAZYlocal is vital |
Tinu Moorhsum
Royal Scientific Research Enterprise
54
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
Torothin wrote:What about the people who cloak up in griffin alts with cloaks in every system. Is that a legit guerilla warfare tactic? You are able to guerilla warfare with cloaks if you are active. So derp right back to you noob.
Absolutely. You might not like it, but frankly, cloaked toons are one of the best guerrilla warfare tools available in EVE.
A toon with enough skills to put a prototype cloak on a noob ship is sometimes enough to stop people from mining/ratting in a system while at the same time being eyes in that system for intel.
If you want to be more advanced about it, a cloaked recon with cyno-5 is a dangerous thing to have in your system and if you allow the enemy to know what ship you're in and/or hot-drop them once or twice it can often shut down isk grinding entirely.
It's brilliant and the mechanic is absolutely indispensable, especially when fighting a superior enemy.
T- |
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Gempei
Siberian Khatru. Shadow Operations.
30
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Posted - 2012.03.02 11:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
excellent discussion about cloaking |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.03.02 15:13:00 -
[82] - Quote
That would be very interesting, if not damn complicated to implement. |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral Stop Exploding You Cowards
5
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Posted - 2012.03.02 21:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
let them cloak and afk all damn day all week if they want to, they are the losers for paying 15$ a month to be afk cloaked in a system all day instead of going around exploring and playing eve the way it was meant to be played (not sitting afk for hours or days waiting for a miner kill) people who do that are losers |
DevilDog11101775
Buccaneers of New Eden The Forsaken.
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 12:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Lol no surprise a member of the CFC is whining about this. |
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
39
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Posted - 2012.03.05 02:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
DevilDog11101775 wrote:Lol no surprise a member of the CFC is whining about this.
Don't paint us all with the same brush. |
Probebly Afk Cloaking
No Self Esteem Imperius Legio Victrix
2
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Posted - 2012.03.08 00:43:00 -
[86] - Quote
Afk Cloaking working as intended |
Rei Seiji
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
17
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Posted - 2012.03.08 06:45:00 -
[87] - Quote
I think what should happen is cloaking also makes you invisible in local. There! Solves your problem with afk cloakers, right? |
Halete
Almost Epic
11
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Posted - 2012.03.08 07:18:00 -
[88] - Quote
I seriously hope that this doesn't get rolled out just because it's been moaned about enough over the years. No space should be safe, all an AFK cloaker is doing is making you feel threatened. If you're NOT threatened when you're playing EVE you're doing something wrong - or you're a Nullbear (may or may not be analogous with 'doing something wrong').
The problem is thusfold: your opposition has taken a step to disrupt your industry (AFK Cloakers). Your in-game response to this is to do nothing. Your out of game response to this is to ask for it to be nerfed.
If you're not willing to defend your space, you will lose it. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance. |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.03.08 08:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
My only issue with removing local is that ninja ratting would become extremely difficult. Having no backup is hard enough, it'd be equivalent to living in a WH by yourself (does anyone do that? If so, have any pointers? WH's sound interesting, but with kids and college I don't really have time for a large corp these days. ) |
Kale Kold
the unified Negative Ten.
60
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Posted - 2012.03.12 22:00:00 -
[90] - Quote
AFK Cloakers
- Can't move
- Can't lock
- Can't shoot
- and nobody is at the controls
...but apparently it can lock down a system for hours on end! GÇ£Some people call me insane for the destruction-áIGÇÖve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!GÇ¥ -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal. |
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