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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ikki Phoenix
Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.19 17:08:00 -
[91]
It is great to see this thread. thank you Wrangler
For all of you interested in finding about the candidates, please check the EveMag Special issue,which you can download from the links on my signature. The special issue contains interviews from all the candidates I was able to get hold of. Hope you enjoy |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.19 17:48:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Rufus Britton
I did read her posts and they're one of the reasons why I and several others have joined the Take Care Party. People like you only read what they want to read and gloss over the parts which don't fit in with their perception of someone. I've known her for years and I wouldn't speak to her much or even go so far as to join her Take Care Party if I didn't think she was clever. She is quite capable of game design, she sends me some of her work to test every now and then.
There is no other way to interpret it when she encourages people to hack websites as "payback" for blowing them up in EVE. And thats just one of the many outrageous comments she has displayed on the forums. So i'd even go so far as to say CCP should not allow her to run for CSM.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.19 18:02:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 19/04/2008 18:04:43
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Rufus Britton
I did read her posts and they're one of the reasons why I and several others have joined the Take Care Party. People like you only read what they want to read and gloss over the parts which don't fit in with their perception of someone. I've known her for years and I wouldn't speak to her much or even go so far as to join her Take Care Party if I didn't think she was clever. She is quite capable of game design, she sends me some of her work to test every now and then.
There is no other way to interpret it when she encourages people to hack websites as "payback" for blowing them up in EVE. And thats just one of the many outrageous comments she has displayed on the forums. So i'd even go so far as to say CCP should not allow her to run for CSM.
That is one of many false accusations which has already been disproven many times in the thread previously linked to. No need to stir this up yet again, this has already been debated to death. |
Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.04.19 18:25:00 -
[94]
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.19 18:36:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Tzar'rim You are correct in assuming that you're not getting my vote, it's nothing personal ofcourse. It is not up to you/CSM to come up with the subjects that need to be brought to CCP, it is up to the active players who post the problems that are at hand. The CSM is just the portal, the translator... NOT the source.
Mmm, but of course I'd counter by saying that the platform I'm standing on IS entirely representative of those players opinions I've already gathered over the course of actively playing in territorial conflict and empire wars over the last several years. These policy items I'm advocating don't simply appear from thin air Tzar'rim, they are the collective benefit of actively playing in these arenas and listening to player concerns for a long long time.
The fact I've chosen to advocate these issues at CSM level is representative of my personal bias/interest in these aspects of the game sure - but its not accurate to describe this advocacy as purely personal in foundation. Yep the CSM is a portal for transfering player interests to the dev team, but there are many ways of gathering these concerns, its not wise to write off everything but absolute objective transparent cypher-status from the word go.
CSM Election Manifesto 2008 |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.19 18:47:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Yah thats exactly the feeling I get when I'm dealing with these slanderers that pull up one imaginary accusation after the other. Thanks for illustrating.
Now, on with the show, as there are far more interesting things to talk about, and we already had several 10+ page threads about this pile of *******s. ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. I invite you to take a look at the campaign website for issues and further information. Visit our Campaign Website |
Arithron
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Posted - 2008.04.19 19:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Ikki Phoenix It is great to see this thread. thank you Wrangler
For all of you interested in finding about the candidates, please check the EveMag Special issue,which you can download from the links on my signature. The special issue contains interviews from all the candidates I was able to get hold of. Hope you enjoy
Hmm, would have gladly contributed to this...how hard did you try to get hold of me then?
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JeanLuc Rome
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.19 20:32:00 -
[98]
Demoralizing candidates with false and obvious slander doesn't make anyone look good at all. In contrast, accepting the fact that not everyone has the same opinions in reference to the same issues makes a democratic process more productive. By gathering different (and sometimes adverse) stands, CCP would be able to look at the big picture. Remember, these candidates aren't here to change things directly, but are here just to give out their (and others) opinions, so that CCP can shape their game as they see fit. In the end, it's CCP's decision, so no matter how much anyone bashes on any candidate, CCP won't do something they don't want to do.
If you don't agree with someone's opinion, there is no reason why to put them down. Instead, in diversity there is always a way. |
Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.04.19 21:27:00 -
[99]
They are running for a public position, that means that they will be scrutinized, taken apart and pulled inside out and everything they write will be weighted and checked.
If they didn't expect that they didn't really think it over. If they don't like it they don't really understand what being "the voice of the people" means.
In this case a quick comparison between what the candidate said earlier on various occasions does not equal what she says now. In fact that canditate seems to have a history of being "misunderstood".
An election is a viscious thing, and it should be.
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Disteeler
Segunda Fundacion T e r c i o s
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Posted - 2008.04.19 21:38:00 -
[100]
Good idea but also a:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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Marlona Sky
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.19 22:20:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Cailais 6 Goonswarm. The future looks bleak.
C.
Pretty much. The end of a great game is at hand. Wonder what game they plan on destroying next.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right?? |
Marlona Sky
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.19 22:39:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Xenofur interestingly enough the only candidate who seems to have the brains, the knowledge how to act in a professional environment and also the technical knowledge is a goon.
Well thank you sir for this glowing reccomendation! I think that those of you who are basing your judgments merely on the alliance tickers of the candidates are doing yourself a disfavor. You owe it to yourself to take the time to get to know the candidates prior to passing judgement. I'd also recommend that you take the time to read the CSM document or the cliffnotes which I have written which I will paste onto my site.
The CSM isn't territorial welfare nor does the model lend itself well to abuse by individual powers. It is a council being built to represent the concerns of all eve players and to present those concerns directly to CCP. Your vote should be cast for people you feel are best able to frame those concerns and who you feel will advocate for them best. I think that you'll find Goons as well as many other alliance have a wonderful talent pool of people who are intelligent, articulate, passionate and capable of delivering on the promise of the CSM. If nothing else I'd say organizing a group of 5000 people is quite a difficult task and should rate highly on the resume of someone you were considering casting your vote for in this position.
You really do confuse people. You say you want to help the EVE universe by being in this council but you joined and stand by an alliance created for the soul purpose of destroying the game. How do you truely expect anyone outside of your own alliance to actually vote for you???
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right?? |
Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.04.19 23:21:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Looking at your posting history you're quite pro goon but that's ok.
First off, I'm not pro goon at all (personally I think a lot of them are jerks), I'm pro eve. I enjoy this game, and really want something to come of this CSM. Hence my desire for people to put their prejudice aside and look at the candidates individually, rather than via their corp ticker.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Are you seriously suggesting that said local/avatar hack did not occur? Do you want me to find the links for it, or the goonmovies that actually SHOW it in action? If you agree with that it occurred (if you don't you should go to Iraq and be the new minister of information) do you personally feel it's ok or that it's cheating?
I know it occurred, and yes I have seen it in action. But once again I've never seen it declared an exploit, nor have I ever seen anyone banned for it. If you want to use this as an example as to why a candidate shouldn't be elected then find me a GM response or post or anything that says yes it is definitely an exploit, otherwise it's just unfounded slander. The proof is obviously there so the line about "our logs show nothing" doesn't come into it.
As for Latex Underwear (and honestly how can you expect to be taken seriously with a name like that)
Quote: That is exactly why you should discard somebody like that. Who you associate with, what you've(and your community) have done in the past and what you will probably continue to do in the future is exactly the reason that you chose to vote for somebody or not. You can't be in goonfleet unless you are a goon. You have to be a paid member of SA to get into goonfleet. Remember, goonfleet is so extreme that even SA won't (or didn't for a while) allow any EvE threads on their games forums.
Ever heard of a gentleman by the name of Wernher von Braun (1912-1977)? He was German scientist during WW2. Now by your logic, because of the terrible things done by the Germans during that period, this man should have been cast aside and never listened to. Heck he was even pivitol in designing the V2 rocket, which was used to kill and terrorise the people of Britan during the war. Thankfully the Americans weren't as narrow minded or bigoted as you appear to be, because after the war Wernher von Braun went on the become an American citizen, the father of the US Space program, and in 1975 was awarded the National Medal of Science. Where would the world be without men like him.
Obviously eve is not real life, but that example goes to prove that just because you personally don't like the company someone keeps, it doesn't mean they cannot contribute greatly in advancing a cause.
Oh and when you say
Quote: Now you are no longer speaking of democracy. Nobody "deserves" anything. You have to earn it.
Once upon a time women were stopped from running in political parties because they were deemed second class citizens and not capable, the same with men of colour. Should they have had to earn the right? Or should they have had that right because they are people too?
----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.19 23:28:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Marlona Sky an alliance created for the soul purpose of destroying the game.
please, show us more of your ignorance and prejudice.
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Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.04.19 23:29:00 -
[105]
So that's why the US kept quiet for years how they miraculously got their knowledge on rockets? They got him because they wanted to get the edge on the russians, not because they were close and personal friends with Von Braun and liked him so much that they had him come over for tea and biscuits.
Also, that move wasn't controversial at all...
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Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.04.19 23:52:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tzar'rim So that's why the US kept quiet for years how they miraculously got their knowledge on rockets? They got him because they wanted to get the edge on the russians, not because they were close and personal friends with Von Braun and liked him so much that they had him come over for tea and biscuits.
Also, that move wasn't controversial at all...
Sorry you seem to have missed my point, perhaps I should have made myself more clear.
Discarding someone's ideas due to the company they keep is foolish and narrow minded.
Oh and just to correct you slightly, Von Braun actually ended up in America because he and his team decided to surrender to them rather than the Russians ----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.04.20 00:12:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 20/04/2008 00:13:52 If you're in a race on who gets that person the first then yes.
If it's about an election where that person will act in my name, while there's more candidates, then no.
Would you vote for a prime minister if the group he's part of does shady deals, is known to be corrupt and openly states they dislike everyone but themselves?
- edit -
And the US said "naah, we're not interested in warcriminals, go back to Germany and make a deal with te russians. In fact if you set foot on our soil we'll put you on trial". Right? Right?
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:37:00 -
[108]
Looking over the list I see two folks I could vote for, Tornsoul and Omber Zombie. Either I don't know the others, or I don't trust them if I do.
I still believe this will be a disaster.
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Latex Underwear
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Posted - 2008.04.20 06:30:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Caleese I know it occurred, and yes I have seen it in action. But once again I've never seen it declared an exploit
Then you are being willfully ignorant or are just trying to twist the facts to suit your goon buddies.
From the EULA that you agree to every time you log in:
Quote: You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire ... beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
First, as is CCP policy, they do not discus any bans so you're not going to see any threads about it. Second, they have to prove that you - personally - are doing it before they can ban you.
Quote: Now by your logic, because of the terrible things done by the Germans during that period, this man should have been cast aside and never listened to.
Um... no. by my logic, you wouldn't want to elect him to represent your congressional district. He was, apparently, a willing member of the **** party and thus not qualified to represent most people in an elected role. Who cares what he did as a scientist when we're talking about politics?
Quote: but that example goes to prove that just because you personally don't like the company someone keeps
No, your example proves that oranges are not apples.
Quote: Once upon a time women were stopped from running in political parties because they were deemed second class citizens and not capable, the same with men of colour. Should they have had to earn the right?
Again you are not replying to the point or the quote you used. You stated that the goons "deserve" a representative on the council purely because there are 5000 of them. I replied that nobody "deserves" anything. There is a large difference between saying that a particular group must have a seat on the council solely based on how many of them there are (does that mean that macro farmers deserver a seat because of how many there are?) and saying that a particular minority (in RL) should or shouldn't have the vote.
You are also clumsily stepping around the fact that, to a goon, everybody else is a non-person and exists solely to provide a target for their griefing.
You also keep avoiding the fact that goons are intolerant of women, people of colour and people with alternate lifestyles.
Frankly, they represent the worst side of humanity, and you continue to argue that they will make good members of the CSM?
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Latex Underwear
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Posted - 2008.04.20 06:38:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Caleese Discarding someone's ideas due to the company they keep is both foolish and narrow minded.
You seem to be missing the point of this exercise. We are electing people to represent us and to speak for us to CCP.
Now, you appear to be happy being represented by people who have deliberately, and publicly set out to ruin the game for everybody who isn't one of their own. I feel that electing such people is both foolish and narrow minded. |
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:02:00 -
[111]
Meh. This CSM thing is going to be crap. Why you ask? Because there will be zero representation on the CSM by anyone with my playstyle, since pirates are the absolute smallest portion of the game population, as stated by CCP.
The absolute last thing I want is for people from large alliances and empire carebears having any input, however minute, about what should or shouldn't happen with the game.
The voting system isn't set up to handle the disparity in populations (with respect to playstyles) so that everyone is equally represented, or even represented at all. Kinda sucks that I didn't have my passport approved in time, but that wouldn't matter any way, as it will be nearly impossible to compete with the large alliance voting blocks. They'll get their guys in, and that'll be it.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Arithron
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Posted - 2008.04.20 08:19:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Arithron on 20/04/2008 08:19:35 Meh. This CSM thing is going to be crap. Why you ask? Because there will be zero representation on the CSM by anyone with my playstyle, since pirates are the absolute smallest portion of the game population, as stated by CCP.
There are players, such as myself, that will represent your views honestly and fairly to the CSM. As a representative, I am required to represent the public views on issues to the CCP council. You are also able to start a topic thread on the CSM forum (this can be on anything you see as important).If you gain the support of a representative or 5% public support on the topic, the topic must be addressed by the CSM.
If a representative has a topic for discussion, it must also be put into the public fourm for a period of 7 days before it can be voted on by the CSM (ie, you get to have a say on all issues).
Arithron
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 09:42:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Latex Underwear Now, you appear to be happy being represented by people who have deliberately, and publicly set out to ruin the game for everybody who isn't one of their own.
The goal of that group is to grief everyone. That may sound bad and deplorable now. However given the right context it sounds perfectly sensible.
I paraphrase an Eve developer: "We do not want pirates to grief carebears, we want everyone to grief everyone."
That which you accuse them of is exactly what the makers of the game intended and what is also practiced by a number of other entities ingame. Singling them out because they are the biggest is quite plain ignorant.
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Daveydweeb
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.20 09:46:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Daveydweeb on 20/04/2008 09:53:08 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 20/04/2008 09:52:27 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 20/04/2008 09:50:23 Edited by: Daveydweeb on 20/04/2008 09:46:46
Originally by: Bellum Eternus The absolute last thing I want is for people from large alliances and empire carebears having any input, however minute, about what should or shouldn't happen with the game.
Apologies for the wordy reply, but I have three observations about this post.
Firstly, this is a step towards what CCP would like to portray as democracy. In a democracy, minority views are generally marginalised to some extent, it happens.
Secondly, I'm struggling to think of ways in which any of the potential representatives might harm your gameplay through any changes they suggest, since they're necessarily going to be mostly to do mostly with 0.0 game mechanics rather than issues related to lowsec piracy. Moreover, I'm willing to place a little more faith in CCP than to think that they'll be taking the CSM's suggestions without reconsidering them from perspectives other than the ones they've been offered.
Finally, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you mightn't have read the CSM brief. The CSM discusses issues that are suggested by the playerbase in general, and are discouraged from simply putting their personal objectives forward. The mechanics of the council pretty much compel representatives to consider grassroots suggestions, so you're still quite capable of having your views considered equally.
Quote: You are also clumsily stepping around the fact that, to a goon, everybody else is a non-person and exists solely to provide a target for their griefing.
Excuse me, my overly friendly Wikipedia userpage begs to differ. :3
Quote: You also keep avoiding the fact that goons are intolerant of women, people of colour and people with alternate lifestyles.
Our long-time female director (nicnivin), black director (darius :V), disabled director (avalloc) and homosexual director (vio geraci) all beg to differ on this point, too.
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Demos Colodan
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Posted - 2008.04.20 09:50:00 -
[115]
A "short" and general comment: The easiest way to discredit so. or sth. is to bring up some "arguments" without any real facts as there are no people voted and working yet. Some of you guys are taking this initiative, a upcoming and new chance for us players to get in touch with CCP, and declare it as washed up ax ante.
I guess you guys won't pick up the chance to pass your drivers license because of the "fact", that your car will run outta gas on your way to work?
Some of the guys tell the comunity, that all will fail and that there are no real represantitives for their kinda gamin'? Hey, fellows, give a try. This CSM will be a players organ for the commnunity. If there will be a spokesman, who might no react on your purposes: write to another or announce that to forum! Do you know the politicians you vote for in a elecetion? I guess no! You read what they say and what PR wants you to know. Watch the list again, read the texts and decide. Take your part in the working and productive/effective community.
Give this CSM a chance! If it fails, it was was a good idea and try at least. Then, I think there should be a period (a certain time -> after meeting with CCP and the following announcements) to wait and see how CSM will do it's job, is the correct time to give a constructive critic.
Best regards!
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Jess Ica
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:36:00 -
[116]
Hello everyone, i still see there are many ppl trying to impose their on goals or their corp/alliance goals. At least from what i read this seams to be the case.
Well the players of EVE have to decide what they consider important in their voting process but for my part i consider it more important that all players vote for someone who has a neutral view of the whole EVE universe.
I'm not against any alliance in this game as i always was and will be neutral to them all. Though i consider it important to have maybe someone from no alliance in this council with a neutral view. At least this is my opinion but what the EVE cumunity decides and wants is another thing which we will see in time.
I for my part am neutral towards the political part of the game and my intrest in this election is either i win or someone else to prepresent a good and intresting future for us all in EVE. I would do my best to keep EVE at least as good as it has been so far but of course would do what i can to make it even more fun.
Of course there are many aspects that would need some love in this game and weather or not the winner may has some influence to fix them or propose new ideas or improvements is something we have to see.
I would do whatever i can to make EVE a better place and hope to get ur votes not out of political intrest but for the intrest of EVE itself and all people who "live" here and spend much of their free time here and want like me this game to evolve in the best way possible.
Jess Ica
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Napolie
Gallente Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:51:00 -
[117]
With an unhealty lack of Chribba (tough this man already does a crazy amount of stuff for the comunity)
I'd say Omber Zombie for pressie
HSY recruitment! |
Junbug
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:37:00 -
[118]
why exactly are we doing this election thing again?
if you want democracy... wouldn't it make sense to have the most democratic form of democracy? namely, direct democracy?
there are many simple way to do it and it does not involve strangers, each of whom knows perhaps a few hundred players at most, "representing" entire the player base of 200k.
here is a proposal. suppose someone says, x sucks, y rocks, we want less x and more y.... well.... whoever has an opinion about something can put it on the forum and ask for signatures... if enough people shows interest in the issue the developers can just put up a simple polling box in the log in screen and we have a referendum on it, and we kick it classical style, just like how the old dudes use to do it in athens..
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Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:15:00 -
[119]
Sigh, I have no idea why I'm biting on the inane trolls of someone named "Latex Underwear" but here goes
Originally by: Latex Underwear Then you are being willfully ignorant or are just trying to twist the facts to suit your goon buddies.
From the EULA that you agree to every time you log in:
Quote: You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire ... beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
First, as is CCP policy, they do not discus any bans so you're not going to see any threads about it. Second, they have to prove that you - personally - are doing it before they can ban you.
Lets set this straight shall we, this so called "exploit" has been brought up a number of times with the GM's and has NEVER been declared an exploit, you know... NEVER (as in not ever), in the same way HYDRA's "BACON" warning system has not been declared an exploit (strangely enough I don't see you jumping up and down about that, prejudice much?). In fact I believe CCP liked the idea of the local modification enough to put their own version in... go figure.
Originally by: Latex Underwear
You are also clumsily stepping around the fact that, to a goon, everybody else is a non-person and exists solely to provide a target for their griefing.
You also keep avoiding the fact that goons are intolerant of women, people of colour and people with alternate lifestyles.
Frankly, they represent the worst side of humanity, and you continue to argue that they will make good members of the CSM?
Now you're just embarrassing yourself.
As someone who has actually read the Something Awful forums a number of times (along with a good portion of the internet population, you'll actually find members of all alliances actively take part there) I find your comments not only ridiculous, but insulting. You will find many different lifestyles, races, and creeds on that forum. And they're all accepted the same as each other (except maybe furries, you're not a furry are you?). The only difference is that there's a distinct lack of the political correctness which infects our world today, and the majority of people there can actually take a joke.
Now honestly, your posting shows a deep deep hurt, and dare a say rage, which you seem to focus on these people. How did they hurt you? It's ok you can tell us... you're among friends. Show us on the doll where the mean goons touched you.
At the end of the day I can see at least 2 of the goon candidates who have posted thoughtfully and constructively (even if I don't always agree with what they suggest) in the game development forums showing that they really want to see this game improved. I'm trying to remember you doing the same, but I struggle. Perhaps you could point me in the direction of a contribution YOU have made? Maybe if you can then your posting will actually have meaning to it, instead of sounding like the inane whine of someone who's internet spaceship got blown up by the mean old goonies.
----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity? |
Yusra
Per.Capita
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:31:00 -
[120]
I'm actually a golden retriever, the passport was forged. That's what I love about the internet, truly equal opportunity.
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