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Rexthor Hammerfists
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.20 04:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 20/04/2008 04:39:31
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 20/04/2008 04:35:36
Excuse me for not talking to the candidates personnaly, but i didnt find another way then posting here without having to register on 33 forums to find out the candidates opinion on this.
So i was gonna vote for Jade and Hardin, but This
could change my top list.
To make it short, who of the candidates is for, and who is against the program i linked and similiar software which limit certain aspects of the game, in this situation PvP besides Pos warfare and give you a significant advantage over the ones who dont use them.
Thx in advance.
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Lord Lycos
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.20 04:36:00 -
[2]
agreed, anti-bacon's will get my vote.
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Kyguard
Black Sea Industries
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.20 04:39:00 -
[3]
Any CSM against BACON is a ++ for me. I don't care wtf you think about missions, pos, small gang pvp if you are against this game-breaking application then you're miles ahead of any other candidates in my eyes.
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Alty MacAlterson
Alt Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.20 04:40:00 -
[4]
I will not be happy until BACON sizzles.
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Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.20 04:52:00 -
[5]
Anyone who supports BACON is someone who does not understand why it is fundamentally bad for this game, tbqfh.
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Trinity Dusk
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:01:00 -
[6]
While the software might give you small leverage it's the local channel that's the underlying problem.
I don't really like having to scroll the local channel all the time either. 
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Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:03:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Trinity Dusk
While the software might give you small leverage it's the local channel that's the underlying problem.
I don't really like having to scroll the local channel all the time either.
Local is a troubled mechanic to which a better solution has not been conceived. BACON takes it to a new level; now you don't even have to pay attention.
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motomysz
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:12:00 -
[8]
I agree. Anti-BACON candidate gets my vote.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:13:00 -
[9]
I don't like the idea of the BACON program really - it strikes me as being too "macro-y" ie making basic precautions and spacial awareness automatic. If it was my choice I'd warn people off this. However, it will probably be rendered obsolete when local chat is removed/restricted in some way. But its fair to say I'm "anti-Bacon" - since its dumbing down an aspect of the game and making it even easier to avoid non-consensual pvp in 0.0 and lowsec (+ concord wars).
CSM Election Manifesto 2008 |
Lord Lycos
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I don't like the idea of the BACON program really - it strikes me as being too "macro-y" ie making basic precautions and spacial awareness automatic. If it was my choice I'd warn people off this. However, it will probably be rendered obsolete when local chat is removed/restricted in some way. But its fair to say I'm "anti-Bacon" - since its dumbing down an aspect of the game and making it even easier to avoid non-consensual pvp in 0.0 and lowsec (+ concord wars).
Translated: Im anti-bacon.
WOOO JADE CONSTANTINE FOR CSM!
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:26:00 -
[11]
While I can see the argument for bacon (similar to evemon / eft...) it takes it a level too far imo.
Then again, noboby cares what i say because im not a csm candidate.
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Eronysis
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:36:32
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:34:54
Macro
It is safe to assume you all misunderstand the word.
Regards,
Eronysis
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Eronysis
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:36:32
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:34:54
Macro
It is safe to assume you all misunderstand the word.
Regards,
Eronysis
And is also pretty safe to say that you don't understand what a colloquialism is.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:45:00 -
[14]
I do by no means think bacon is cool.
It's a very big workaround, but it would do the same task as reading directly from the memory, which is bad.
So i hope that CCP will change their EULA/TOS accordingly.
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Eronysis
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: motomysz
I agree. Anti-BACON candidate gets my vote.
Ironic
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.20 06:55:00 -
[16]
This reminds me of the time when all channels used to notify everyone in them by text as to who was coming and going. But that still wasn't anywhere near as invasive as this. Or are people just expected to cross their fingers and hope that their target doesn't have their speakers on, now?
The only reason I could support this being allowed is if CCP can identify those characters using it and assess their behaviour a little more closely for other more suspicious activity. But even if that were possible, I imagine that those types would catch on pretty quickly so its usefulness in that regard would be limited at best.
It's a clear nerf to the risk factor outside of high-sec Empire, and as such I see it as a precedent that's just too dangerous to ought to be allowed. The game is already more "dumb" than it should be without making it worse with tools like this.
/Ben
Ben Derindar: Eve CSM candidate
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mishkof
Caldari
Dirty Denizens
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:02:00 -
[17]
Although I disagree with the whiole CSM thing and think it is a nice little side show,
I will take this oppurtunity to say that if someone had a gun to my tead and forced me to vote for someone it wouldnt be someone that was for "bacon"
I.E I am against this CCP.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response.
[]hate me
[]troll me
[]smack me |
Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:11:00 -
[18]
BACON is essentially a audio version of the client hack that made local portraits into standings indicators. No thanks.
----------------------
CSM 08 Blog | 1st Campaign Vid |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:12:00 -
[19]
actually there is a VERY big differnce, it doesnt modify content at ALL therefore it does not breach the eula
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:15:00 -
[20]
I will vote for whomever ends the Bacon menace. 
The Trit Must Flow! |
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Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
actually there is a VERY big differnce, it doesnt modify content at ALL therefore it does not breach the eula
it might not break the EULA directly, but it is inherently against the spirit of the game
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CSM 08 Blog | 1st Campaign Vid |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:18:00 -
[22]
really? I disagree, but last I checked, neither of us define said spirit so until a dev says otherwise, its kosher
unlike most bacon 
yeah I was waiting to break out that one
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Talarn Kalarn
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:22:00 -
[23]
It is also against the spirit of the game to evade those out to ruin your fun... because then you are ruining their fun instead!
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Eronysis
Caldari
Gunfleet Logistics
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eronysis
Originally by: motomysz
I agree. Anti-BACON candidate gets my vote.
Ironic
If case you have as much trouble following links as reading a description or actually using a product before judging it.
I give you another preexisting tool...
Beetracker
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Eronysis
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 07:33:04
Originally by: Eronysis
Originally by: motomysz
I agree. Anti-BACON candidate gets my vote.
Ironic
If case you have as much trouble following links as reading a description or actually using a product before judging it.
I give you another preexisting tool...
Beetracker
What is being passed off here is large alliances keeping the advantage of having such tools private and quasi secret. BACON brings them to the masses, in an OPEN SOURCE format. Tools of this nature are being used against thousands of players BY people posting BAN BACON messages in this very thread and in others. Period.
Ok, you brought complete crap to the masses.
How long before every single ISK farming Raven has this installed? War targets? Forget ever getting within range unless you happen to jump through the same gate they're warping to.
Complete utter crap... It already takes long enough to find fight without having to go 1vs10
------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster 
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.20 07:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Eronysis
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 07:33:04
Originally by: Eronysis
Originally by: motomysz
I agree. Anti-BACON candidate gets my vote.
Ironic
If case you have as much trouble following links as reading a description or actually using a product before judging it.
I give you another preexisting tool...
Beetracker
What is being passed off here is large alliances keeping the advantage of having such tools private and quasi secret. BACON brings them to the masses, in an OPEN SOURCE format. Tools of this nature are being used against thousands of players BY people posting BAN BACON messages in this very thread and in others. Period.
I had no idea this is possible - thanks for bringing this to the surface.
I hope the csm candidates can convince ccp to remove the root of the whole problem, not just your programm.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.04.20 08:10:00 -
[27]
CONCORD has locked the original thread so I can't see what BACON is/was, however the Beetracker program looks like 2 things to me:
1) An attempt by players to add to the UI where it is lacking
2) Unbalanced that a specific group of players only should have access to the tool.
On the point of balance .. does everyone remember when Portraits were being replaced with +ve/-ve images in the client cache? This was a high-demand feature not present in the client. So now, it's implemented in the client for everyone.
IMO, it should be implemented for all, or not implemented at all.  Whether "implemented for all" is a good case, is up for debate 
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
Shakuul
Caldari
Extreme Addiction
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.04.20 08:21:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Shakuul on 20/04/2008 08:23:19
Originally by: MotherMoon
maybe bacon ill be the reason CP finally removed local once and for all.
and then bacon will only tell you when a war target has spoken in local thus showing up.
which fun mind games will then be played.
but yeah anti Bacon gets my vote.
I hate local allready now this.
so thank you BACON guys for giving us more reason to kill local dead.
This. Bacon is just highlighting an existing problem (the unreasonable/excessive amount of information local provides) by giving everyone easy access to this information (through sound). Don't petition to remove bacon, petition to remove local.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.20 08:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
CONCORD has locked the original thread so I can't see what BACON is/was, however the Beetracker program looks like 2 things to me:
1) An attempt by players to add to the UI where it is lacking
2) Unbalanced that a specific group of players only should have access to the tool.
On the point of balance .. does everyone remember when Portraits were being replaced with +ve/-ve images in the client cache? This was a high-demand feature not present in the client. So now, it's implemented in the client for everyone.
IMO, it should be implemented for all, or not implemented at all. Whether "implemented for all" is a good case, is up for debate
yeah you still have my vote, I mean your the best candidate by far
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.04.20 09:19:00 -
[30]
Why should macroers will use BACON? I saw alot of times macroers are cloaking/logging off someone enter local already, what will bacon do for them their macros cant do?
Originally by: techzer0
How long before every single ISK farming Raven has this installed? War targets? Forget ever getting within range unless you happen to jump through the same gate they're warping to.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.20 09:23:00 -
[31]
Originally by: KISOGOKU
Why should macroers will use BACON? I saw alot of times macroers are cloaking/logging off someone enter local already, what will bacon do for them their macros cant do?
Originally by: techzer0
How long before every single ISK farming Raven has this installed? War targets? Forget ever getting within range unless you happen to jump through the same gate they're warping to.
Because I've actually caught a few that were either not paying attention or watching one of their other farming accounts. They do cloak/log when they notice someone in local, but that's only if they notice you
------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shakuul
Edited by: Shakuul on 20/04/2008 08:23:19
Originally by: MotherMoon
maybe bacon ill be the reason CP finally removed local once and for all.
and then bacon will only tell you when a war target has spoken in local thus showing up.
which fun mind games will then be played.
but yeah anti Bacon gets my vote.
I hate local allready now this.
so thank you BACON guys for giving us more reason to kill local dead.
This. Bacon is just highlighting an existing problem (the unreasonable/excessive amount of information local provides) by giving everyone easy access to this information (through sound). Don't petition to remove bacon, petition to remove local.
Removing Local is a complicated and delicate issue. I'm for removing Local, but not without replacement- and as yet, I've not heard a single good idea for what will replace Local. Local is not just a powerful intel tool, it's THE ONLY real time intel tool; Local needs removing and replacing with a more realistic, limited intel tool.
Removing BACON has no such problems. If you're for removing Local, you should be for removing BACON.
------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways. |
Cruthensis
Gallente
Farmer Killers
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: KISOGOKU
Why should macroers will use BACON? I saw alot of times macroers are cloaking/logging off someone enter local already, what will bacon do for them their macros cant do?
ISK per hour is all that matters to them. At their end this translates into:
"How many clients can one operator operate before ship safety and reaction time become issues with a negative effect on income?"
So, like you say, maybe they already wrote their own tool. Maybe not and they'll start using this one. In either case it's a bad thing. It allows one person to manage more machines. It means ISK farmers are more likely to form corporations to take advantage of the related benefits (because people who've war-decced them will now be 'audible').
1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1. |
Ralara
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:11:00 -
[34]
The Carrot Party is vegetarian, and thus does not like Bacon.
--
Ralara / Ralarina
VOTE FOR RALARA AS YOUR CSM REPRESENTATIVE, AND RECEIVE A COUPON FOR A 10% DISCOUNT AT WORLD OF WARCRAFT.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=74811 |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.04.20 10:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Eronysis
Beetracker
What is being passed off here is large alliances keeping the advantage of having such tools private and quasi secret. BACON brings them to the masses, in an OPEN SOURCE format. Tools of this nature are being used against thousands of players BY people posting BAN BACON messages in this very thread and in others. Period.
As infiltrated as goonfleet is there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have access to beetracker by now, so practically speaking your point is moot.
-----------
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:17:00 -
[36]
CSM candidate here.
I'm against any 3rd party program that gives a significant advantage to its users compared to those that do not use the program. It basically forces people to use the program if they want to participate in the top levels of the game.
I know what happens if noone *****s down on this stuff, in Ultima Online it was compulsory to use programs that spammed movement requests to the server or make the client tick faster and thus send more movement commands, so your character would always run faster than those without the program. If you wished to participate in PVP, you had to have one of these programs. The staff never undertook action against those using the program, so it got completely out of hand, and now almost every PVPer there is using this trash. We don't want those situations to arise in Eve, thus for the good of all, the Bacon program and similar utilities must be blacklisted.
I understand that scrolling through the local channel isn't really a nice mechanic either, but if you want changes to the interface and feedback, then suggest them, so they become available for everyone when they are officialy implemented.
---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. I invite you to take a look at the campaign website for issues and further information.
Visit our Campaign Website |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:54:00 -
[37]
As far as I can see BACON is simply an audio version of local. The problems are inherent with Local and the need for players to find others / conceal themselves.
Im reminded of Winterblinks comment on his warp drive active pod cast - picture the scene where a PC blurts out a warning - hubby crashes through the kitchen barging wife out of the way shouting 'Out of the way woman! My internet spaceship is in danger!'
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.04.20 10:59:00 -
[38]
Dont like the principles behind this new app, or what itl potentially mean for PvP in EVE (another step to PvP being only between "PvPers" like in most MMOs). That said, if its not breaking any rules then nothing can really be done, especially if its now gone open source meaning unless CCP specifically ban its application & anyone using it (how to prove that?) theres no way for it to be gotten rid of.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche
Dont like the principles behind this new app, or what itl potentially mean for PvP in EVE (another step to PvP being only between "PvPers" like in most MMOs). That said, if its not breaking any rules then nothing can really be done, especially if its now gone open source meaning unless CCP specifically ban its application & anyone using it (how to prove that?) theres no way for it to be gotten rid of.
Wouldn't a local nerf be a way to get rid of it?
----
Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag |
Max Torps
Gallente
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:14:00 -
[40]
My view is here. If you nerf something like local which is crying out to be fixed anyway, give something back. Spy satellites and perimeter beacons could be used for fleet tracking etc. Anyway, it's a thought.
EvE blogspace, free! Max Torps CSM Candidate |
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Anyone who supports BACON is someone who does not understand why it is fundamentally bad for this game, tbqfh.
This..
And if CCP truly approve this, then they have lost their vision too.
--------------------------------------------------
The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:20:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
CONCORD has locked the original thread so I can't see what BACON is/was, however the Beetracker program looks like 2 things to me:
1) An attempt by players to add to the UI where it is lacking
2) Unbalanced that a specific group of players only should have access to the tool.
On the point of balance .. does everyone remember when Portraits were being replaced with +ve/-ve images in the client cache? This was a high-demand feature not present in the client. So now, it's implemented in the client for everyone.
IMO, it should be implemented for all, or not implemented at all. Whether "implemented for all" is a good case, is up for debate
If CCP wants it implemented they will put it in the program, and add a checkbox in the options window to turn it on, or off. Third party tools are not the answer.
This also works directly into your maps. If everyone cannot have access to the new information that is coming out ahead of schedule for those that purchased the maps and leave others without it, that is also unfair.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:36:00 -
[43]
The more pertinant question is what does Kevin Bacon think about the CSM.
SKUNK
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Des Garcons
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:47:00 -
[44]
Who cares what csm candidates think they are all scammers just using this to try to get ppl to trust them so they can scam them.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:55:00 -
[45]
We seriously need a sticky bacon thread. Horrid though that sounds.
----
Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.04.20 11:58:00 -
[46]
CCP has mentioned time and time again that even they think local chat is flawed. Making an application that enhances a tool that the devs don't actually support is rather strange.
But look at it this way. When local finally gets removed, everyone who's depended on this application will be weeded out anyway, because they can't be bothered to play properly.
EVE History Wiki
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Shaun Klaroh
Caldari
Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Des Garcons
Who cares what csm candidates think they are all scammers just using this to try to get ppl to trust them so they can scam them.
I was going to mention that this would be a perfect political move for CSM candidates to jump on.
-----
Quote:
"Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked.
"Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cailais
As far as I can see BACON is simply an audio version of local. The problems are inherent with Local and the need for players to find others / conceal themselves.
I coudln't said it bettar myself.
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
-KB- |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:40:00 -
[49]
A candiate that comes out and says definitivly they would rather advocate scrapping local as is even without a scanning replacement rather than have it continue vulnerable to BACON/Beetracker like abuses
GETS MY VOTE
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Shaun Klaroh
There is no such thing as Civil war, especially when Caldari are involved.
The forums are where most do their pvp.
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Shaun Klaroh
Caldari
Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:58:00 -
[51]
A projection would be difficult as Tri prices are still trying to stabilize. On top of that, a majority of the mineral demands are from combat pilots, not miners anyway.
-----
Quote:
"Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked.
"Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.04.20 13:06:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 20/04/2008 13:06:31
True but pvpers arnt 100% of the demand. If roaming gangs never catch anything, no one is replacing any ships except for unavoiable POS related fights or the odd engagement where the offensive force doesnt scout worth a damn.
EDIT: couple that with the fact that those not having to replace their ships are pulling in ore and isk at afk rates flooding market. It's a problem.
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.20 13:13:00 -
[53]
I'm not a candidate, but I'm not sure I could support one who is in any way in favour of this.
Logging should only be available on test builds of the client.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.20 13:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Eronysis
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:36:32
Edited by: Eronysis on 20/04/2008 05:34:54
Macro
It is safe to assume you all misunderstand the word.
Regards,
Eronysis
Emergency Damage Control I requires 1 capacitor to activate, you only have 0.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.20 13:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
1) An attempt by players to add to the UI where it is lacking
Wait what? Add to UI where it's lacking? It's an automated system-warning for people who refuse to k |