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Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
136
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Posted - 2012.02.29 04:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Industry is a bit boring because there's rarely anything new that happens (new BPOs rarely get released) and there's no room for creativity, all BPOs are standardized. Imagine if it was possible to introduce new ship designs in a player driven fashion. These would come in a form of BPOs with perhaps patented names that only corps who design them could produce and sell. It would take smarts do design successful ships and money to market them. This would make for a very interesting industry dynamic i believe and new industry endgame.
Of course the question is how to create a system that doesn't disbalance the game.
One idea could be that these BPOs could come as modifications of existing BPOs with relatively minor changes, perhaps a system of points with maximums. For instance if you remove a medium slot you get +100 points, and adding a low slot also takes 100 points. Adding 10% PG takes maybe 50 points, adding 10% shield maybe 25 points etc. I realize this would be pretty hard to balance but it could be one way to go about it.
The patent office (CCP) could also require very large payments for allowing modifications such as +1 slot without a penalty which would allow to sink some ISK and create some expensive but more powerful ships (this wouldn't disbalance the game due to increased risk, faction ships are already much more powerful in many dimensions but they come with much increased risk). There could also be an option to make the ship cheaper (!) at the expense of removing slots for instance, which could also have an incredible value. It would be difficult to come up with a system that would balance factors such as cost/slots/mineral requirements etc. Perhaps the patent/certification office could be player driven too, or mineral requirements adjustment could come as a part of the point system.
These new ships could get names and be marketed. There would also be a very big risk involved, because this would be a very expensive research process (on the order of billions also requiring something like 3 months x 30 lab slots also requiring lots of materials) but someone else could come up with a similar design, register perhaps a better name for it and have a more successful marketing campaign.
I realize this is a pretty radical idea but it could revitalize the stale industry game. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
435
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Posted - 2012.02.29 07:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
The problem with this idea is that all items are standardized on the item database. Altering the innate stats of each ship can cause issues when stacking/moving items as well as cause some server loading issues when loading up countless numbers of ships in large fleet fights... all with different stats that have to be factored with their different skills and/or mods and/or fleet bonuses. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1205
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Posted - 2012.03.01 05:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
I seriously approve of this message.
The ability to modify a standard BPO into a new ship with:
1) New/altered stats 2) New/modified slot layout 3) New/modified bonuses 4) Perhaps even research/invent the BPOs over time into a modular ship BPO at a significant cost
All while paying out of your ass each time you invent/research this BPO into something much more valuable and or create a variant BPO design, would be made of win. |
Kitt JT
Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda
16
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Posted - 2012.03.01 06:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
In principle, this is a very good (if unoriginal) idea.
In practice, it would be very labour-intensive to actually create, and would be an absolute nightmare balancing. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
137
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Posted - 2012.03.01 16:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:In principle, this is a very good (if unoriginal) idea.
In practice, it would be very labour-intensive to actually create, and would be an absolute nightmare balancing.
Not clear about implementation. Maybe this could come in a form of inventing new subsystems in a fashion similar to strategic cruisers. The code framework for that is already in place at CCP. Wrt balancing, you could start with allowing pretty mild changes. 5% adjustment even in every possible attribute will not radically change any of the existing ships. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
825
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Posted - 2012.03.01 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dream Five wrote:5% adjustment even in every possible attribute will not radically change any of the existing ships.
Here's where you're wrong. Yes, it would. 5% more fitting can allow drastically different fits on some ships that just won't quite fit right now. There are also lots of fits that are tight right now but could become even more effective if they were able to drop a fitting mod and add in more DPS or something like that.
As has been stated on the forums many times, players can and will abuse any and every loophole in the system; and this change would instantly add hundreds, if not thousands, of loopholes for the more intelligent players to find and exploit.
It's a decent idea in principle, but in practice it would wreak havoc with the game balance and just be a nightmare.
It comes back to this quote (from when CCP was realizing their errors with Incarna and re-focusing on improving Eve itself):
CCP Greyscale wrote:Doing something just "because it would be cool/neat/awesome" is always a bad idea and will come back to bite you later ... when we start off with an awesome idea rather than an actual problem we want to fix or a feature that has a clear, functional and necessary goal, it generally requires painful fixes further down the road |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
137
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Posted - 2012.03.02 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Dream Five wrote:5% adjustment even in every possible attribute will not radically change any of the existing ships. Here's where you're wrong. Yes, it would. 5% more fitting can allow drastically different fits on some ships that just won't quite fit right now. There are also lots of fits that are tight right now but could become even more effective if they were able to drop a fitting mod and add in more DPS or something like that. As has been stated on the forums many times, players can and will abuse any and every loophole in the system; and this change would instantly add hundreds, if not thousands, of loopholes for the more intelligent players to find and exploit. It's a decent idea in principle, but in practice it would wreak havoc with the game balance and just be a nightmare. It comes back to this quote (from when CCP was realizing their errors with Incarna and re-focusing on improving Eve itself): CCP Greyscale wrote:Doing something just "because it would be cool/neat/awesome" is always a bad idea and will come back to bite you later ... when we start off with an awesome idea rather than an actual problem we want to fix or a feature that has a clear, functional and necessary goal, it generally requires painful fixes further down the road
This is a game, not a job, or hopefully not of a boring variety. It's pretty much required to do something cool/neat/awesome.Also his quote clearly doesn't apply here. He was talking about adding CQ and maybe NEX store. What i'm proposing is exactly along the lines of improving a core gameplay mechanic. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
842
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Posted - 2012.03.02 20:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
First off, yes, he was talking about everything, not just about CQ and the NEX store. Here's the full quote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:Doing something just "because it would be cool/neat/awesome" is always a bad idea and will come back to bite you later
See: Jump bridges, cyno jammers, Sov 4, AoE doomsdays, titans in general, supercarrier boost... Note that we should still obviously strive to make everything cool/neat/awesome, but when we start off with an awesome idea rather than an actual problem we want to fix or a feature that has a clear, functional and necessary goal, it generally requires painful fixes further down the road See? Not just about NEX, it's about the game in general.
And you attempted to twist my words around right there with your "This is a game, not a job, or hopefully not of a boring variety. It's pretty much required to do something cool/neat/awesome." Eve is cool/neat/awesome, I never said it shouldn't be; I said that adding things just because they sound cool, rather than because they make the game more cool, is a bad idea.
And yes, 5% bonus could unbalance a ship more than implants already do, since it will stack with the implants. And price isn't a balancing factor, because there's always someone with more ISK to throw away. See the current supercap situation if you think that price can ever be used to balance a ship's power in Eve.
And finally, your idea would actually do the exact opposite of what you claim it would. Instead of creating more variety in ships, it would simply create a new FotM OP ship as soon as someone figured out how to exploit the system to create an unprecedentedly powerful ship. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
452
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Posted - 2012.03.02 22:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
mxzf wrote:And finally, your idea would actually do the exact opposite of what you claim it would. Instead of creating more variety in ships, it would simply create a new FotM OP ship as soon as someone figured out how to exploit the system to create an unprecedentedly powerful ship.
QFT. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
131
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Posted - 2012.03.02 23:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:mxzf wrote:And finally, your idea would actually do the exact opposite of what you claim it would. Instead of creating more variety in ships, it would simply create a new FotM OP ship as soon as someone figured out how to exploit the system to create an unprecedentedly powerful ship. QFT. 5 days after launch, gons have used enough isk in manufacturing to create an endles fleet of Polaris Rifters, 3 days after eve dies. |
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Malicious Mission Murderers
93
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Posted - 2012.03.03 05:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Velator: Quafe Edition This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
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