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A tribute to CVA.

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Ooyama Caldari Rastana CMP	Posted - 2008.04.23 07:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Xennith Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. We do not shoot neutrals in providence. because there are no neutrals in providence. Quote: So in short, the U'K does not shoot at anyone they consider to be neutral correct. Quote: because they do not recognise the right of anyone to remain neutral. incorrect. there are plenty of neutrals in the galaxy. I am sorry to say so, but in my opinion those 2 statements ARE 'mutually exclusive'. Unless offcourse you whould (i.e.) happily gun down a possible Gallentean diplomatic excursion on it's way to negotiate the release of what you call your brethren (but are happily killing when you blow up the ships in which they are transported,, the very brethren/"your people" as you call them, that you say you are coming for), or transports with thousands of families in flight from 1 place to another (persons of any ethniticity, some of whom may have never had the knowledge to even choose a side, or without knowledge of who you even are)??? At one hand you claim there are plenty of neutrals in the galaxy, and at the other you claim that NONE of those are to be found in Providence (or, apparently (in your opinion) in the neighbouring systems?)! If those statements are true, i think that you whould be better off starting to root out in your own government first,,, as THEY afterall have made PEACE with the Amarr,,, a peace you're threatening by your continous attacks. You are acting in contradiction to your government, and saying that civilians are hostiles doesn't do you any credit on that either, so either start acting in accordance to your governments policies or be branded as outlaws (even by your own people/government). Ooyama. Liaisonofficer of the Rastana CMP & NRDS-type pilot.
Ooyama Caldari Rastana CMP	Posted - 2008.04.23 07:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 22/04/2008 15:15:51 Originally by: Ooyama Now that, in my humble opinion, speaks for itself. More outlaws trying to rattle the saber, and make themselves important Ooyama shakes his head. I guess i know what one of my sidejobs will be,, and i can reveal to you, Pilot Jenneth, that it will involve ships from ghost festival, heavy firepower, salvagers and tractorbeams! As you so nicely put it, catch you in space! "Important?" Hm. Well, most beings do like to have a sense of their own worth. PRETA has the potential to become "important," certainly, but is currently an experimental project-- which, of course, we'd like to see succeed. In the meantime, we might "feel" slightly more so, or slightly less, in the aftermath of the battle you offer. Though I'm not able to be in the capsule very much for the next few days, personally, I'll hope you'll have enough endurance that I can look forward to testing your skills against my own in the near future. Until then. I shall be happy to see you in space also, as first of all i find no greater joy than in a good battle and also i feel an obligation to find piracy and lawlessness where i find it. All ready now have i, and others in my corp, had 2 run-ins with people from Ghost Festival, but not any fights worth mentioning (once the pilot from you ran, after being hammered to structural damage,, the other, we broke contact, after realizing none of the sides could sway battle to their advantage).. See you in po,, Ooyama corrects himself SPACE! Ooyama.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 08:52:00 - [33] Edited by: Xennith on 23/04/2008 08:54:06 Originally by: Ooyama I am sorry to say so, but in my opinion those 2 statements ARE 'mutually exclusive'. Unless offcourse you whould (i.e.) happily gun down a possible Gallentean diplomatic excursion on it's way to negotiate the release of what you call your brethren If we were aware of this mission we would probably consider those flying it to be friendlies. Quote: At one hand you claim there are plenty of neutrals in the galaxy, and at the other you claim that NONE of those are to be found in Providence (or, apparently (in your opinion) in the neighbouring systems?)! Xennith rests her face in the palm of her hand We do not shoot neutrals. If you are assisting our enemies you are not neutral. If you support slavery you are not neutral. If you are in Providence it is safe to assume that you support the misguided attempts to annex the area for the amarrian throne, unless we have intel to the contrary we assume you to be hostile, given that the residents of that area are shall we say, a little "miffed" at our refusal to go quietly into the night. Quote: You are acting in contradiction to your government they are wrong. we do not support them: "we come for our people" not "we obey the ****s in power". Quote:** so either start acting in accordance to your governments policies or be branded as outlaws (even by your own people/government). oh no? however would we survive being branded as terrorists? we have our supporters within the halls of power and within the populace as a whole. Those who oppose us will eventually see that we are doing what is neccessary for the good of everyone. What I fail to understand is why the thousands of capsuleer organisations who happily admit that they will shoot anyone they do not consider to be a friend do not attract your ire. Anyway, sorry for derailing this fawning, sycophantic thread into a discussion of our RoE.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 10:27:00 - [34] Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 23/04/2008 10:31:38 Bullet point format for the slow ones under the slavers boot heel: Providence is infested with slavers and those who continue to trade with them. If you do business in Providence or Catch you are an enemy of Freedom and considered a target of war. Those who profit from the suffering of our people are our blood enemies and will be hunted down. Identify yourselves as Warriors of Freedom or die under the fire of our guns. So, taking one of the many nonsense claims above as an example, if a Gallente envoy were on a mission to see our kinsmen held in Providence released he would have no reason not to identify himself to us. As for 'our government' I suggest you try some background reading. Focus perhaps on the key phrases 'Muritor' & '1 ISK for Midular' then follow the trail. I do not see how much clearer it can be made. To argue over the meaning of our official statement at this point is on a par with taking a shopping list and debating the meaning of Butter.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 10:30:00 - [35] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 23/04/2008 10:33:11 REF: Telemicus Thrace. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Baron Erique Bhavana Singularity	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Xennith We do not shoot neutrals. If you are assisting our enemies you are not neutral. If you support slavery you are not neutral. If you are in Providence it is safe to assume that you support the misguided attempts to annex the area for the amarrian throne, unless we have intel to the contrary we assume you to be hostile, given that the residents of that area are shall we say, a little "miffed" at our refusal to go quietly into the night. Let us consider a hypothetical capsuleer who is new to Amarr space and decides to jump into Providence. He or she does not know who is whom in Providence. He or she does not know any of the history of the region, of CVA or U'K or any other group who frequents the area. You assume the capsuleer is hostile and, given the opportunity, would attack his or her ship. In the same situation, CVA assumes that capsuleer is neutral and allows him or her safe passage within Providence with the only demand being not to attack any who are blue or neutral to CVA. Can you not see why your tactics could be viewed as terroristic? Do you not understand how that type of behavior turns neutrals away from your cause? Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Identify yourselves as Warriors of Freedom or die under the fire of our guns. True freedom includes not having to identify as anything to anyone, if one so chooses. True freedom means a capsuleer should not need to report his or her purpose or destination or cargo to anyone out of fear of being attacked by so-called "freedom" fighters. You comment is another example of how U'K's definition of freedom is not freedom, but merely a different order and set of rules forced on others.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Baron Erique Let us consider a hypothetical capsuleer who is new to Amarr space and decides to jump into Providence. He or she does not know who is whom in Providence. He or she does not know any of the history of the region, of CVA or U'K or any other group who frequents the area. this is one crazy capsuleer to jump into lawless space and assume that he wasnt going to get shot. Hes more likely to have done his research first, then decided to go and support CVA by paying docking fees, sales tax etc in providence. We come for our people
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.04.23 12:58:00 - [38] If the U'K come across someone in a region other than Providence, will they shoot them if they don't support the destruction of the institution of slavery? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:18:00 - [39] Outside of the slaver bloc of 0.0 space, anyone who encounters us need not fear attack unless they have engaged in hostile acts against us. (any support for slavery or slavers is regarded as a hostile act). So from your example, we would not fire on that person. We come for our people
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.04.23 13:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 23/04/2008 13:55:10 nvm Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Baron Erique Bhavana Singularity	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Xennith this is one crazy capsuleer to jump into lawless space and assume that he wasnt going to get shot. Hes more likely to have done his research first, then decided to go and support CVA by paying docking fees, sales tax etc in providence. Ah, so just because it's lawless space and there is a high potential of being shot, it's okay if U'K are the ones who do the shooting? "More likely" does not equal "absolutely"...a few innocents are an acceptable as long as it's for your cause? The hypothetical capsuleer I brought up is me, a few months in the past. I came to Providence to have a taste of 0.0...the only information I had was that gatecamps were rare and that the alliances who held the space had a NRDS policy. I never assumed I would not get shot, but simply that I would get shot less than in other 0.0 regions. Furthermore, when I arrived in Providence, the outpost in R3-K7K did not have docking fees. I did all of my buying or selling in Amarr or Tash-Murkon Prime. In all of my time in Providence, I have always been treated well by members of CVA, PXF, -7-, and others who reside there. Members of CVA have given me aid on several occasions and have never demanded anything beyond not attacking their friends or neutrals. On at least one occasion, however, I was attacked (while ratting) by "freedom fighters" (EM, not U'K). They did not even ask how long I had been in Providence, if I knew the history of the region and its alliances, if I had ever traded with CVA or paid any docking fees or sales tax to them. U'K and allies demand more than CVA ever has, from me. CVA never demanded that I identify myself as a Warrior for Slavery. CVA never demanded that I disclose to it my purpose for being in Providence or my private business transactions. CVA never attacked me.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 14:20:00 - [42] It is regrettable that you cast your lot in with slavers without examining the moral implications first. However now that you are aware of the fact that CVA engage in slavery will you leave Providence? Will you renounce them and demand freedom for the slaves? Will you in short, give up your easy life built on the sweat, blood and lives of enslaved innocents? I suspect you will not, and so we shall have to encourage you. At the moment I am trying reason and words, the next step is explosive decompression. Take your pick. We come for our people
Baron Erique Bhavana Singularity	Posted - 2008.04.23 15:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Xennith I suspect you will not, and so we shall have to encourage you. At the moment I am trying reason and words, the next step is explosive decompression. You talk, but there is no reason in your words. I do not for a moment believe that your true aim is freedom for slaves. You merely use that claim as a blanket to obscure your quest for vengeance...and control. You do not care who may pay for that quest, either. Most who choose to be in Providence may have adequate background knowledge of the situation, yes, but there are still some who do not. Were you truly interested in the cause you claim you are, you might use words to explain to those individuals your point-of-view...but instead they only get a view of the points of your bullets as they rip through their ship. Actions such as those reveal the true nature of your group.
Hori To NorCorp Security eXceed.	Posted - 2008.04.23 16:12:00 - [44] Ushra'Khan has openly stated their NBSI policy in Providence. If you had bothered to do some research you would have known this. The blame is yours.
Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Baron Erique On at least one occasion, however, I was attacked (while ratting) by "freedom fighters" (EM, not U'K). They did not even ask how long I had been in Providence, if I knew the history of the region and its alliances, if I had ever traded with CVA or paid any docking fees or sales tax to them. I am not aware of any of our pilots engaging in combat operations in Providence in the recent past. I can find no trace of the engagement on our killboards. Could you let me know who engaged you, when, where and the circumstances involved please. Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:38:00 - [46] Edited by: Evanda Char on 23/04/2008 21:38:16 Originally by: Baron Erique On at least one occasion, however, I was attacked (while ratting) by "freedom fighters" (EM, not U'K). They did not even ask how long I had been in Providence, if I knew the history of the region and its alliances, if I had ever traded with CVA or paid any docking fees or sales tax to them. EM have not been active in Providence since the fall of Unity. I can't find any kill or lossmails from Providence on our killboard or in the corporate logs... can you provide any further details of this alleged incident? -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:44:00 - [47] This really shouldn't be that hard to understand, even for those who were brought up in the Amarrian educational systems. I'll try again: We have a list of people we are none too fond of. This list includes organizations directly engaged in enslavement operations, organizations that enrich themselves through slave labor, and organizations that actively defend the institution of slavery. Joining this list are organizations that have shown themselves to be hostile to us in no uncertain terms. And finally, we include organizations that are known to offer aid and comfort to our enemies. None of this should be strike anyone as being too bizarre, really. We've never made any pretenses regarding our stand on the issue of slavery, and I think most rational people understand the concept of treating as hostiles those who aid their enemies. As to Providence, that region was once a haven for those fleeing from the horrors of the Amarrian Empire. It was once a beacon of hope shining into the darkness of space: "Here is safety. Here you can escape your chains, be they metal or Vitoc. Here you can rebuild your life." That was all to end when the unholy coalition of CVA and those who pledged loyalty to their vile cause blasted through the best the defenders could offer and slaughtered in massive numbers the civilians attempting to live in peace there. Now, Providence is a wasteland. The Amarrian lords prosper, of course, as do those pilots who willingly serve them and defend their ill-gotten gains. But look to the industry, the agriculture, etc, and you will see nothing but misery and suffering, as the hordes of hopeless enslaved struggle to find a reason to go on. You see pilots who are "doing nothing to support slavery", engaging in business there. You see miners trying to make a few isk, or pirate-hunters trying to hunt those breaking CVA law. We see pilots who are bringing weapons to aid the slavers in their dominance over the populace, and paying taxes that the ragions masters use to promote their cause. We see miners supplying the CVA war industry with materials to build their fleets and the chains to enslave our people, and fighters defending the slave-holders business interests. If you saw an unknown third party making repairs to your enemy's ship as you fought for your life against them, I suspect you'd be inclined to treat that otherwise "neutral" party as a hostile threat. We would, too. And that's exactly what's going on here: pilots are helping the slaver tyranny we hope to defeat grow strong, and we are treating them as the hostiles that they choose to be. No doubt there are some who aid our enemy out of ignorance, but the vast majority are there in support of our foes -- including more than a few who are directly employed by our foes, but operating under a 'neutral' flag. We've taken significant measures to educate all regarding the situation in Providence, including discussions like this one. We've also made a point to place warnings outside of the major entrances into slaver space when conducting interdiction operations. A number of organizations, upon hearing of the situation, have contacted us, and some have even joined our fight. Those who choose to ignore such warnings are taking a side through their decision. We do not shoot neutrals. But those who support the slaver paradise of Providence are not considered neutral. Fly free. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Laerise Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:35:00 - [48] I wish the CVA a vivat, crescat floreat ad multos annos, Long live the empire!
Shaun Klaroh Caldari Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.24 02:16:00 - [49] I've seen both sides in this argument, and I can only chuckle at both sides. Not sure exactly as to who is "right" in this little argument, however the points I see are clear. CVA is accused of directly supporting slavery. Any form of goods and or services that make their way into CVA's books is considered aiding and abetting. Pilots who unwittingly engage in aiding and abetting CVA are viewed as slavery sympathizers and are classified as hostile. I can understand this point of view, and while I have no personal interest in whether or not slavery is involved, I am interested in the actual conflict itself. That said, I do wonder about the Rules of Engagement against miners and transport pilots. Provided these individuals haven't been seen to be docking, supporting, or communicating with CVA, are they still considered hostile at that point? Is there a possibility of the said miners and transport pilots just 'passing through' or taking the minerals to other markets? As far as attempting to be neutral, I will make any statements on this matter as accused and not proven. I am not familiar with the region nor parties involved. ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:40:00 - [50] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 24/04/2008 04:41:29 Originally by: Baron Erique On at least one occasion, however, I was attacked (while ratting) by "freedom fighters" (EM, not U'K). They did not even ask how long I had been in Providence, if I knew the history of the region and its alliances, if I had ever traded with CVA or paid any docking fees or sales tax to them. EM does not 1) operate much in Providence, 2) fire on neutrals (which you are) without provocation. We will contact you separately for exact details of the incidence. If a pilot of EM has been in violation of our Rules of Engagement, your loss will be reimbursed with apologies. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari EDIT: Oh, Eva beat me to it. I guess it won't hurt to repeat. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.

Conlin Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:59:00 - [51] Originally by: Baron Erique Edited by: Baron Erique on 23/04/2008 14:08:30 Originally by: Xennith this is one crazy capsuleer to jump into lawless space and assume that he wasnt going to get shot. Hes more likely to have done his research first, then decided to go and support CVA by paying docking fees, sales tax etc in providence. Ah, so just because it's lawless space and there is a high potential of being shot, it's okay if U'K are the ones who do the shooting? "More likely" does not equal "absolutely"...a few innocents killed are acceptable as long as it's for your cause? The hypothetical capsuleer I brought up is me, a few months in the past. I came to Providence to have a taste of 0.0...the only information I had was that gatecamps were rare and that the alliances who held the space had a NRDS policy. I never assumed I would not get shot, but simply that I would get shot less than in other 0.0 regions. Furthermore, when I arrived in Providence, the outpost in R3-K7K did not have docking fees. I did all of my buying or selling in Amarr or Tash-Murkon Prime. In all of my time in Providence, I have always been treated well by members of CVA, PXF, -7-, and others who reside there. Members of CVA have given me aid on several occasions and have never demanded anything beyond not attacking their friends or neutrals. On at least one occasion, however, I was attacked (while ratting) by "freedom fighters" (EM, not U'K). They did not even ask how long I had been in Providence, if I knew the history of the region and its alliances, if I had ever traded with CVA or paid any docking fees or sales tax to them. U'K and allies demand more than CVA ever has, from me. CVA never demanded that I identify myself as a Warrior for Slavery. CVA never demanded that I disclose to it my purpose for being in Providence or my private business transactions. CVA never attacked me. Edited for grammar. Uk has a long history in providence as does cva . It has been a long hard fight , cva has taken many nuetrals under there wings and hide behing some of these nuetrals as guises for their industry . Providence is a warzone and has been widely publicised as being so , so to enter is at your own risk .To think otherwise is foolish . We cannot and do not have the time to question every nuetral who enters Providence whether they support slavery or not as many of these nuetrals shoot first . Refer above . You are a perfect example of what we speak of . You demand an answer as to why we shoot nuetrals , yet you help support CVA . You wish both sides of your bread buttered laddie . We cannot and will not halt our Burn Providence campaign just so you can fill your pockets .
Avel Kereka Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:11:00 - [52] These threads always end up the same... U'K are terrorists who fire on anybody who is not actively fighting slavery, because passive acceptance to them is just as bad. We, the law-abiding inhabitants of Providence, usually ride in on golden horses and chase the smelly hordes away so that people may trade in peace. We're on God's side, and people generally like us more because we're quite accommodating; Minmatar PR on the other hand usually consists of snarling Brutors and breached pods. I can only hope the denizens of the universe realize the peace and prosperity we Amarrians offer. Gallenteans offer it too, but they're annoying so ignore them. cough
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 07:27:00 - [53] These threads indeed always end up the same: with both sides accusing each other of shooting neutrals and acts of oppression, terrorism, and illegal invasion. Anyone with half a mind can see that the truth likely is more complex than one side being totally innocent and the other side being totally guilty and us simply needing to pick which one is which. It was a hard war and a long one, and atrocities happened on both sides -- this I know for a fact. Now CVA is occupying Providence, and they are desperate to present themselves as 'the good guys', so as not to face another hard one. And U'K has lost their home, and are in the midst of a desperate fight for survival. So it is no wonder that atrocities keep on happening -- on both sides. It is unfortunate that peaceful co-existence is quite unlikely, given not only the history but the current international relationships between our peoples. Elsebeth Rhiannon (The above statements are mine. I do not at this point know if they represent the stance of my superiors.)
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2008.04.24 07:58:00 - [54] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 24/04/2008 07:57:55 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon ...And U'K has lost their home, and are in the midst of a desperate fight for survival. So it is no wonder that atrocities keep on happening -- on both sides. Only that you base this on your assumption that Ushra'khan terrorists have a rightful place in Providence or Derelik, and forget they are foreigners who spewed out of tribal space. San Matari Official forums
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:52:00 - [55] In Providence, CVA are equally foreign, and not only "spewed out" from Empire space, but drove out Ushra'Khan from their claimed space, by that majorly causing their displacement to, among other places, the Mandate. To give the impression by the equalling Derelik and Providence that some parts of zero security would be "Empire space" or "CVA space" by some right that would not equally make it "Matari space" or "U'K space" is pure propaganda. (And you know that as well as I do, Scagga Laebotrovo -- and you should have known I'd call you on it.) As far is comes to Derelik, though -- I probably do not need to state my opinion of Minmatar pilots, of any tribe or allegiance, in violation of the cease-fire between our nations. Elsebeth Rhiannon The above are my personal opinions and I do not at this point know if they correspond to the stance of my superiors. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Snakester Caldari Blood and Money Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:51:00 - [56] Edited by: Snakester on 24/04/2008 11:51:43 Just do as i do and it's all fine, kill every UK ship u find uncloaked. One day i will find my run away slave, cos my toilets starting to pong and he needs to get back here and clean it, only so many stains a Khumark gets of the rim you know. Proud warrior of Sev3rance. I come for my slaves. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Baron Erique Bhavana Singularity	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:20:00 - [57] Regarding EM...there is no need for reimbursement, and a reason why my name isn't on any lossmails: I was attacked, my ship was not destroyed. (Is a MWD on a ratting Myrm an unconventional fit? It has saved me from aggressors several times when it has allowed me to slip out of scram range, and each time it seemed to catch the aggressors napping as they weren't able to compensate in time.) So, I have no proof I can offer and hence do not demand or expect you believe me. I know I was attacked by someone from EM as I have EM written on my list of alliances and corps that have attacked me personally. I do appreciate the fact, though, that reimbursement was offered had my ship been destroyed.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:30:00 - [58] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 24/04/2008 12:31:21 Originally by: Baron Erique So, I have no proof I can offer and hence do not demand or expect you believe me. I know I was attacked by someone from EM as I have EM written on my list of alliances and corps that have attacked me personally. I do appreciate the fact, though, that reimbursement was offered had my ship been destroyed. I would still like to inquire for any details (date, names of pilots involved, even roughly) that you might remember, as it seems possible there has been a clear violation of our standing policies by one or more of our pilots. Even if reimbursement is not necessary, an internal investigation and depending on the results disciplinary action might be. I understand this is hardly a matter for cluttering a thread about Derelik further, so should you so wish, feel free to evemail me about the subject. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari EDITed to add: I do not know about standard fit, but I tend to feel that an MWD on almost any ratting or combat ship is a good idea indeed. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.04.24 12:32:00 - [59] The same tired circle turns, the same tired and nonsense arguments are spewed out by legions of slavers and their willing meat shield. Really there is nothing more to do here than put up the same old answers to the same old gibberish. "True freedom includes not having to identify as anything to anyone, if one so chooses. True freedom means a capsuleer should not need to report his or her purpose or destination or cargo to anyone out of fear of being attacked by so-called "freedom" fighters." We are Matari freedom fighters, we fight for the freedom of our people. We do not fight for your freedom to enslave our families nor do we fight for your freedom to profit from the genocide of our race. "CVA is accused of directly supporting slavery." You must be kidding right? If CVA wish to make an official declaration that they no longer support slavery or it's institutions and release all of the slaves they hold to our care then we will discuss terms. That offer has always been on the table. "Any form of goods and or services that make their way into CVA's books is considered aiding and abetting." Any business done in Providence is considered aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is considered aiding and abetting. "Pilots who unwittingly engage in aiding and abetting CVA are viewed as slavery sympathizers and are classified as hostile." We have published clear warnings as to our stance. We have placed beacons around Providence carrying the same warning. In all honesty I have not killed anyone in Providence that can say with a straight face they did not know the risks in profiting from slavery. "That said, I do wonder about the Rules of Engagement against miners and transport pilots. Provided these individuals haven't been seen to be docking, supporting, or communicating with CVA, are they still considered hostile at that point? Is there a possibility of the said miners and transport pilots just 'passing through' or taking the minerals to other markets?" I really don't see what you have to wonder about. Yes, they are considered targets of war as it has been stated. If somebody is just passing through Providence then they have the option to make themselves known to us, as was stated. Due to the common practice of slavers to use any lie or subterfuge available to protect their convoys I recommend opening talks with an Ushra'Khan diplomat in advance of your trip. This has all been said before, I have no doubt we will have to say it again.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:08:00 - [60] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 24/04/2008 13:08:41 Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Any business done in Providence is considered aiding and abetting. As Electus Matari has been mentioned in this thread, I feel it necessary to stress that what Telemicus Thrace quotes here is Ushra'Khan policy, not shared by Electus Matari. We stand with our government in our commitment to peace, and wish to as much as possible avoid extending the hostilities began with us by Amarrian paramilitaries any further. Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.

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