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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
DJ Obsidian
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok a few things,
you should rework meta names again. meta 1 and 2 are too similar and meta 3 and 4 are similar also so they could get confusing.
And i agree that renaming everything DOES make the game too generic.
example.
n-type explosive hardner sounds a lot cooler than prototype explosive hardner.
mega afocal partical tachyon stream sounds 100x cooler than prototype tachyon beam.
WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS
Review naming scheme on a case by case basis.
step 1. start with guns, and missiles.
ASK THE PLAYERS WHAT ARE BETTER NAMES
Do not implement this automatically without player review first. Of course you have not learned and skipped this part already.
So scrap your renamming stuff all of it. just flat out trash it.
Go back and make a new dev blog with suggested names for modules, and seperate it into different sections maybe with some PDF goodness with what name changes you want to make. Also add on a suggestion box or a form where players can mail back their thoughts better than the forums such as surveys and lots of comment forms.
Finally
Quote: Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY-2.5, which goes in implant slot 6 and gives an 18% bonus to Warp Speed, is now Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed WS-618.
How about Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' WDS-618 Never hesitate to use acronyms.
RENAMING Modules with a generic naming scheme takes away flavor from the game. It's like replacing all the icecream on the shelf with vanilla and variations of vanilla. its just too plain. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
964
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
Salvia Olima wrote:I believe the sole reason was that CCP Gnauton been asked what he's been done lately and he came up with the idea to dumb the game down to a disgusting level of monotonious module names, no matter how much it will take from the overall feeling of the game. It will be done, he said it.
I was outrageous even with the Trauma missile renaming (it does not sound good, as it is completely silly), not to mention the experimental/prototype wtf. Most of us who are playing from years know every module in the game by name. With this renaming plan Gnauton takes that away from us. A very bad decision - but a man wants to keep his job.
Yet it can be solved without generating more bittervets: please make an optional patch, so one who wish to play with the old names should still play with it. Killmail generating can be done with the new dumbed names. But I want my bloodclaw missiles back, and I want Catalyzed Cold-gas Thrusters back, with all the others. And you do not want another Jita siege. ^^ QFT
Get |
Zevas
Infinite Origins Shadow Cartel
2
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
Implant changes are nice.
The Meta level names suck and/or have the wrong ordering. Each level needs to inherently suggest an improvement. The current proposed names do not.
I would do something like this:
Meta Level 1: Experimental Meta Level 2: Limited Meta Level 3: Upgraded Meta Level 4: Advanced
EDIT: Swapped them around a bit.
Agree with post further down. Limited needs a new name. |
Rixiu
SnowNiggs.
104
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
Not sure about the prototype/experimental/upgraded. In my world prototype and experimental is basically the same thing and it's a bit confusing.
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Adolf Hilmar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:59:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP's documentation is terrible. The least you could do is not go around breaking all the decent third-party docs. |
Huey Pewy
3
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
1. I agree that those new meta names are a bit weird.
Prototype = experimental Upgraded: all those meta modules are upgrades of the T1 module. Limited: doesn't that refer to the quantity of an item? I don't see how it could explain the stats.
2. I absolutely like the Hardwiring renames! I ignore them because they are so confusing atm. :p
3. You use a part of the old name with other modules. For example:
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher = Prototype 'Arbalest' Light Missile Array Compact 'Limos' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I = Limited 'Limos' Assault Missile Launcher I
I like that, why don't you use this on every module you rename. It would make both parties happy i think. For example:
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters = Limited 'Cold-Gas' 1MN MicroWarpdrive I |
DJ Obsidian
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 16:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Some other thoughts.
There is nothing wrong with missile launcher meta names. everyone know that 'arbelast' is meta 4 and malkulth's are meta 1 etc...
If you really want to redo names on anything do it on freaking lasers. those are the most annoying to distinguish. oh and again Dont dumb down the game with easy names. |
Skye Aurorae
No Bull Ships
183
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Zevas wrote:Implant changes are nice.
The Meta level names suck and/or have the wrong ordering. Each level needs to inherently suggest an improvement. The current proposed names do not.
I would do something like this:
Meta Level 1: Limited Meta Level 2: Augmented Meta Level 3: Upgraded or Enhanced Meta Level 4: Advanced
Get rid of limited all together, limited fells lesser than plain vanilla.
Also, augmented it nice, but it might cause confusion with the Augmented drones. Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21, so.. Vote for Scott Manley / Skye Aurorae for CSM 7 An Expert in Dealing with Childish Arguments Over Toys. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68506 |
Vanessa Vansen
Cybermana
12
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
Quote:we've come up with a standardized global scheme for Meta Level 1-4 modules That's the way to go! However, the names ... there are better combinations ... see above
Quote:Heavy Assault Missile Launchers have become Assault Missile Launchers
Assault Missile Launchers have become Light Missile Arrays
Standard Missile Launchers have become Light Missile Launchers
Siege Launchers have become Torpedo Launchers Now, all you have to do is rename Heavy Assault Missile to Assault Missile and you'll end up with
* Rockets and Rocket Launchers * Light Missile and both Light Missile Launchers and Light Missile Arrays * Assault Missiles and Assault Missile Launchers * Heavy Missiles and Heavy Missile Launchers (since you didn't change anything here, right?) * Cruise Missiles and Cruise Missile Launchers * Torpedos and Torpedo Launchers
Do you see the beauty of a well elaborate naming? |
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
16
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:05:00 -
[70] - Quote
The missile change went badly because you trashed the functionality of being able to find what you wanted quickly and easily, not because you didn't talk about it enough. If you wanted to be helpfull fixing that (ie rolling back the names) would be a great start.
As for this attempt at breaking more stuff the changes to launchers looks like taking something slightly confusing and replacing it with something confusing... not sure what you think is gained there. For the tanking modules all that was needed was to insert the existing reflective/reactive/whichever into the name of all the meta mods, so a market serach could pull up all the variants applicable to a certain stat, completely renaming them with most basic generic format seems like taking out flavour for the sake of it.
Agree with others here, 'limited' being better than 'upgraded' is just full potato, at least with experimental vs prototype we already have meta 4 guns with prototype in the name so it makes a little more sense. (Although changing 'experimental' to something else certainly wouldn't hurt, personally I'd go with limitedGåÆimprovedGåÆupgradedGåÆprototype)
Now for the implants, and at least here you've identified a genuine case where too much flavour obscures functionality, if for no other reason than most people spend less time looking at/handling implants than they do other modules so the names tend not to sink in so easily, it's still a fairly clunky mouthfull for the names but at least the new system there follows some form of logic so +1 for that, this will actually help more people for less loss of flavour
Sadly you seem to have missed the naming of small/medium lasers, puttimg 'medium' named guns onto frigs causes more confusion in new players than any other naming in EVE, tbh the only 2 areas that badly needed attention to the names are implants and lasers, from the point of view of improving usability/consistency, somewhat surprised you haven't picked up on those. |
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Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
89
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
I'd like to have the meta levels something like this:
Meta Level 1: Advanced Meta Level 2: Enhanced Meta Level 3: Experimental Meta Level 4: Upgraded
Why in this particular order you might ask? Well because it's in alphabetical order, and as such it will sort very nicely in all programs, but especially in the market. |
Fantocis
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
NO NO and NO! You are doing it wrong!!!
idea of simplifying names is grate but you are over reacting and going wrong direction. Get along CCP, don't throw things like this at ppl that fly around in internet space ships!
What you did with missiles already was misunderstanding now you screw launchers? Whats is wrong with HEAVY and just Assault missiles? Why you change things that do not change anything?
Siege and torpedo OK because that was confusing
Meta Level 1: Standard
Meta Level 2: Upgraded
Meta Level 3: Experimental
Meta Level 4: Prototype
for hardeners, yes its confusing and it must be changed, but please leave Reactive, Magnetic, etc. because complexity is middle name of EVE if you want easy tasks go and play WOW or any thing like that and dishonor you family.
When you changed names for missiles that was terrible :) i mean Trauma missile? what? wtf you where thinking about what, a trauma? Mjolnir cold name, Nova hot name, Inferno just explodes by him self and then trauma? Shame on you, please change kinetic missile name because its hilarious
so please CCP pimp my ride! |
Alex Cortex
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Not related to the topic per-se, but I want to point out that the first 'N' in Gnauton is upside-down. While you're fixing names, you might want to fix that one too, it's really bugging me. Thanks. |
Camios
Minmatar Bread Corporation
68
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Nice. Needless complexity is needless. |
agrajag119
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
8
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
Global prefixes for meta items is simplifying things *too* far. Sure it's easy for a newbie - but the utility there is good for the short while it takes to learn the names.
After you've figure this out - your changes kills quick search and find capabilities. Either make market searches more granular (limit to slot / type / something else) or make the meta prefixes unique to item groups groups, hull upgrades have their prefixes, turrets have their own set (all turrets), missiles have theirs, and so on.
Add a little complexity and flavor back to keep things feeling unique and different. What you're proposing is the plain black and white label on everything plan. It's boring and monotonous. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
163
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Some points:
- 'Adaptive Nano Plating' should be 'Adaptive Invulnerability Plating' - EM Ward should be replaced with EM Deflection - Thermic Dissipation should be replaced with Thermic Deflection - What are the 'Supplemental' Deflection Amplifiers? Supplemental was not a classification you listed in the blog |
Axl Borlara
T.R.I.A.D
28
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:18:00 -
[77] - Quote
Implant names
Great! Someone listened and had the common sense to keep the interesting part of the names AND make the overall name functional.
Meta 1-4
Oh dear. I'll repeat what others have said.
Meta Level 1: Upgraded - fine. It's upgraded so better than normal Meta Level 2: Limited - Limited is not an upgrade. It would be worse than the standard version. So bin that one. Meta Level 3: Experimental - experimental is not necessarily better. Also sounds like it might break. Meta Level 4: Prototype - means pretty much the same as experimental.
The good news is that it's not too late to fix it. Think of four names which all mean better than standard. For bonus points, order them sensibly. Failing that, how about adding the meta level to the name? m1, m2, m3, m4 etc?
Missile launchers
Good effort, but having just one type called Array rather than Launcher is wrong. |
Katsina
Alien Affliction GIANTSBANE.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Meta Level 5: Advanced Meta Level 4: Improved Meta Level 3: Kindergarten Meta Level 2: Window Licker Meta Level 1: CCP
I made my listing from the top down. I see the point in making more uniform names for a better reference-able and searchable database over-all. This will solve many problems with developmental naming conventions not always matching and having several duplicate names with either a GÇÿ1GÇÖ there or not there and make it easier for lazy people to understand the game. This just seems like a lot of work going into something that does not make the game a better play experience or balanced for the majority of the players. So instead, CCP is dumbing down the game to the lowest common troglodyte level to make it easy enough for new people, idiots and lazy people to play.
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Ceratin
Dark-Rising
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
No need whatsoever for these stupid name changes, the whole point of an rpg is for stuff to have weird and wonderful names so you have to do abit of research to find out what your getting is better. The average eve player is not a 4 year old kindergarten pupil
Honestly who comes up with this ****? is there someone at ccp thats never played an mmo that just sits and thinks all day, i know lets ruin this, maybe you could just rename all the mods...
meta 1 heavy missile launcher :=> **** mod meta 2 heavy missile launcher xxxx name :=> **** mod meta 3... etc etc
heavy missile launcher II :=> good mod
Tada, no1 has to invest 5 seconds working out which is the best cos only one mod is called the 'good mod' right?? |
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
509
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:19:00 -
[80] - Quote
Just want to echo what some have said here and others have suggested before. Please add the ability to sort items by meta level. I think if you did that in conjunction with these name changes most of these over reactors in this thread will be appeased.
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Zaragis
Ubuntu Inc. Lonely Maple Conglomeration
2
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
Meta Level 1: Upgraded Meta Level 2: Limited Meta Level 3: Experimental Meta Level 4: Prototype
Wtf?!?!?!!!???!!!!!
Upgraded is better than limited ? And Experimental and prototype are the SAME thing!! |
Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
56
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Do you want to come and rename all my excel sheets and 3rd party programs also?
You just caused weeks worth of painless work for me and you continue to do so. Renaming the missiles was bulljunk and this just keeps going.
Stop nerfing the game. Make meta levels visible in market groups and put compare tool to neocom, but ffs stop renaming the stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least it is painless
The idea is great and worthy in my opinion. I always hated the old names, who has time to learn all the nuances? Well, I didn't, too busy using my limited time for Eve to actually play. I do think something other than Limited could be used, though it is sooo sexy, almost as sexy as trauma...ummm blunt force trauma...
And i believe Prototype is generally used for the first try at something, while experimental is used to make variations of something. Though I can find no backup for that, that is how I see it. I would can the name Prototype for this reason.
Standardization works for me. +1 I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it. |
Jax Slizard
Celerna Talocan United
5
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:22:00 -
[83] - Quote
You know what would be awesome and useful? If you made the names for higher meta level items start with letters later in the alphabet. That way they would automatically sort in meta order when sorted by alphabetical order.
As in, if meta 1 was Fantastic, meta 2 was Great, meta 3 was Stupendous and meta 4 was Wonderful, then a sorted list would look like:
Fantastic Torpedo Launcher (Meta 1) Great Torpedo Launcher (Meta 2) Stupendous Torpedo Launcher (Meta 3) Wonderful Torpedo Launcher (Meta 4)
Now obviously these are terrible terrible terrible names, and the order of fantastic and great appears to be wrong, but you get the point. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
144
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
Blimey CCP, what's going on in the office over there? The volcanic fumes finally made it past the filters for the aircon units?
Upgraded -> Limited -> Experimental -> Prototype
Makes no logical sense at all as "Limited" implies that an item is worse than its stablemates.
If anything, it should be a logical progression:
Experimental / Prototype -> Modified -> Enhanced -> Improved / Upgraded -> T2.
As for the launchers, renaming Standard Launchers to Light Missile Launchers and Siege to Torpedo are the only ones that make sense.
Missile "Array"? No.
It should be Light Assault Missile Launcher and then you can keep Heavy Assault Missile Launcher.
Props for finally changing the implant names though, they were bonkers hard to remember. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5095
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 17:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
As long as the search function allows for non-exact searches (i.e. you can enter "limited launcher" in the search field and find all Meta-2 launchers, no matter how those two words appear in the name), it will be all fine.
I can somewhat sympathise with the feeling that applying this to everything will make things a bitGǪ boring, but you can probably fix that by having 3-4 different meta-naming schemes (where's my MkIGÇôMkIV scheme!? Stop hogging it, nasty evil Iteron!). I also agree that the names themselves could probably be better when it comes to conveying the increasing ability and efficiency. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Shandir
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Fantocis wrote:If its upgraded in meta 1 from what then it its upgraded? from item that do not exists in eve game? It`s do not make sense CCP Gnauton because if it is UPGRADED it should be Meta 2 then its experimental because its like BETA tested but not common and then its prototype
You do realise that Meta Level 1 is not, in fact, the base form of an item? That's Meta Level 0. Learn 2 EVE.
I think the name changes are good, for the most part, and agree that the complexity in naming (Especially implants) is not depth, just extra legwork.
I agree that LMA is not an ideal name as it is not clear why this is different from a launcher. Perhaps Light Missile Launcher Array (ie an array of LMLs)
I don't know that you needed to change Reactive/Reflective/etc, they were consistent and relatively clear.
Since it seems not to be clear to most people that Limited means Limited Edition, you need to either rename it to make this clear, or come up with a new Meta 2 name.
I think Experimental vs Prototype is fine. For me, prototype is 'prototype for production soon' whereas experimental is 'trying out new stuff, nowhere near production'
PS: The spreadsheet tears are hilarious. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
OMG! Not again! You already caused severe "trauma" with the missile changes and now you mess with the launchers too? Why not rename T2 ammo to short range and long range, after all conflag, barrage, hail, null, void is waay too confusing anyway.
Now for some constructive criticism. The meta names are backwards:
Meta Level 1: Upgraded Meta Level 2: Limited Meta Level 3: Experimental Meta Level 4: Prototype
Why is the Meta 2 'limited' when it is obviously better than the Meta 1? Each level should imply that it is better than the next.
Also, experimental and prototype...which one is better? After all, both words are almost synonyms.
Why the Light Missile "Array"?? Every other launcher is called a "launcher", why are these arrays?
The only positive, well thought out, changes are the implants names. |
PinkKnife
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
65
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
I approve greatly of these changes. The hardwireing in particular was a god forsaken mess, having to show info on everyone to get an idea of what they did was a nightmare.
The only concern I have is in the launcher names.
For turrets it is easily recognizable what are short range and what are longer range cannons. Pulse = short, Beam = long.
Wouldn't it make more sense to separate out the launchers in the same way? At least in the market view.
First by size Large Medium Small
Then have that broken down by range,
Large > Torpedos/Cruise Missiles Mediums > Assault/Heavy missiles Small > Rockets/ Light missiles
Thus you're launcher names would be
Meta X Torpedo launcher meta X Cruise Missile launcher
Meta X Assault Missile Launcher Meta X Heavy Missile Launcher
Meta X Rocket Launcher Meta X Light Missile Launcher.
The only real changes are to make the array thing a bit less confusing and keep the naming convention of the medium size launchers. I never flew Caldari so the only experience I have are the Khanid ships which all use HAMs.
Basically the naming convention between Assault missiles and Heavy assault missiles is confusing. Rather than changing the launcher descriptor, why not simply use a different prefix. |
sakurako
The Circle G00DFELLAS
3
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Posted - 2012.02.29 17:27:00 -
[89] - Quote
DJ Obsidian wrote:Ok a few things, you should rework meta names again. meta 1 and 2 are too similar and meta 3 and 4 are similar also so they could get confusing. And i agree that renaming everything DOES make the game too generic. example. n-type explosive hardner sounds a lot cooler than prototype explosive hardner. mega afocal partical tachyon stream sounds 100x cooler than prototype tachyon beam. WHAT YOU SHOULD DO ISReview naming scheme on a case by case basis. step 1. start with guns, and missiles. ASK THE PLAYERS WHAT ARE BETTER NAMESDo not implement this automatically without player review first. Of course you have not learned and skipped this part already. So scrap your renamming stuff all of it. just flat out trash it. Go back and make a new dev blog with suggested names for modules, and seperate it into different sections maybe with some PDF goodness with what name changes you want to make. Also add on a suggestion box or a form where players can mail back their thoughts better than the forums such as surveys and lots of comment forms. Finally Quote: Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY-2.5, which goes in implant slot 6 and gives an 18% bonus to Warp Speed, is now Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed WS-618. How about Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' WDS-618 Never hesitate to use acronyms. RENAMING Modules with a generic naming scheme takes away flavor from the game. It's like replacing all the icecream on the shelf with vanilla and variations of vanilla. its just too plain.
ccp do a review with the player base, come on they know whats best for the game they would never upset the player based and have players riot in jita
i agree that these name need relooking at
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Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
918
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 17:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Should be:
Light Missile Launcher Light Assault Missile Launcher Heavy Missile Launcher Heavy Assault Missile Launcher The Drake is a Lie |
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