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Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
625
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you  |

Miri'ori
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
0
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 10:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
I want to give Faction Warfer a voice.
I want to give Hisec/lowsec people a face.
My vote for Hans Jagherblitzen.
live long and prosper |

Ned Black
Driders
12
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nobody who is part of a thing will ever be impartial nor independent.
I find it interresting that you tell people to use one vote on Hans and the rest on one of the serious contenders because any other vote would be wasted on him... I kind of disagree here.... completely.
From what I have seen the current CSMs are starting eyeball Hans more and more because he is becoming dangerously popular among the high/low/fw crowd. And that bunch is a fairly big crowd but traditionally very split up in warring factions... but if they come together behind him I would say that Hans have a serious chance of not only getting into the CSM but getting right to the top 7.
Where I put my votes is yet to be decided, but Hans surely have perked my interrest even if Im not in the ls/fw crowd. |

Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
25
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
I think the summary is a sound one, and although I may not agree with all the choices, Trebor is a good man, and has always struck me as level headed and as objective as you get. |

Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES The Citadel of Asgard
9
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you 
Yes it is sad. Non the less i think it is true. The bloc candidates will get there votes. Just some number experiments: Say you have 6k voters, 2k of them go for goons, another 2k support 3 other bloc candidates. the last part of 2k voters has 20 candidates that have great ideas and good intentions to run for a seat.
Now think there are just 4 Seats, how big is the chance that the 2k spread over 20 candidates will reach a higher mark than 2k spread over 3? It MAY occur but the odds are against it.
I respect everyone who makes efforts for this great game whether he runs for CSM or not. But as non bloc candidates you should really try to group your self together to rally behind one front runner. The guy (or girl) who finally gets the seat does not need to be the one with the best ideas, but the one who can work with others and communicate the ideas of the community to ccp.
Once the votes are over and the results are out, everyone favoring non-bloc candidates should keep up their good work and support those who made it into the council.
@Trebor: Good guide. It is hart to not step on someones toe and you might have hit some but overall this is a good point to start at. Hopefully the average csm interested player will realize that he still needs to do his own choice and look into the candidates he favors. |

Drackarn
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
7
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Good post.
I'll be voting with all of my toons for Hans Jagerblitzen.
CSM 6 has done a great job. But the minutes appear to reveal they know nothing about faction war. And why should they, I know nothing about null-sec.
CSM 7 needs a delegate who knows low-sec, hi-sec and faction war. Hans is that man. http://sandciderandspaceships.blogspot.com/ |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1801
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 12:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Your assertion that all nullsec candidates are of equally low value to all independent voters is not backed up by any evidence, as all of your specific arguments about them are aimed only at Mittens. I singled out The Mittani because of all the bloc candidates, he is making by far the strongest effort to attract votes from outside his natural voting bloc. And also, the focus of the document is about how non-bloc voters can maximize the value of their vote. Since all the bloc-candidates are going to get elected, and most of them get elected into the top 7, votes for them provide less value to an independent voter than votes for candidates with a proven track record of representing the interests of all the players.
Quote:Your statements that several candidates will easily win (implying that they aren't worth votes) while not mentioning that you are also virtually guaranteed a spot is obviously disingenuous. While I think it highly likely that I will be re-elected, getting into the 7 is another story. The competition this year is much stiffer, and turnout will be higher. I don't believe any non-bloc candidate is a lock for the 7.
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you  I am sorry you feel this way. Unfortunately, the fact that the election system has not been changed to reduce wasted votes (as in, votes for candidates who did not get elected), and the reduction in the number of Iceland seats to 7, has resulted in a situation where independent voters have to make cruel choices in order to balance bloc power. I blogged about this back in January.
I have been pushing CCP to reform the election mechanic since right after the last election, but they did not want to introduce too many changes this time around. I would like to see an open discussion with the community about this topic, culminating in changes for the next election.
Ideally, voters should be able to cast their ballot for their preferred candidate without worrying that their vote will be wasted. But in the current election, this is sadly not the case. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
It would be a nice guide if it was void of personal agenda leaking from every paragraph.You are a true politician Trebor. And i dont mean it in a nice way.
And i strongly disagree that votes for popular candidates that have bloc support are wasted votes. There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. And certainly not voting for their second/third person on the like list, just because they think that their primary candidate has enough votes already. Thats bullshit that can have a very big cost and harsh consequences.
Cheers. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

MakkAnzy
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
I support Seleeneee as he knows this game the best! He has always worked hard to make it a better game. IE Wormholes!
Please support Seleene as we need him back on CSM! |

Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
91
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Good read...but you left out the longshot. Would you like a kitten? |
|

Destru Kaneda
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
29
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen. http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/ http://binaerpilot.no/ GMU d-(---)pu s+++:-- a-- C++++$ U>+++ P+ L+ E---- W+++$ w PS+++ PE-- Y++ PGP-- t+ tv-- b+ D++ G e- h r++ y+* |

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1025
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 16:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
Surat Do'Cameran wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
Sit down, shut up and go back to mining trit to turn into ships that the rest of us can go pew in. You were an ALT for most of your CSM time until a "main" stepped down. You raised no issues within the CSM in your time and are quoted in t he CSM minutes as being unable to figure out T3 production business models ad stating that T3 ship were of "dubious" value. You were out of touch and ignorant then and are so now. As for the issues that Trebor has pushed, I guess POS fuel changes and UI improvements are useless to a carebear like yourself? Go away and stop filling the forum drives with your drivel. Stop campaigning against candidates with actual ability and splitting the vote.
I served a full term first time elected and half the second term so the majority of my time I was an acting CSM member and not an alt.
POS fuel changes came up long before Trebor made it into the CSM. We discussed it with CCP when I was in CSM 2. As have been UI changes. Every CSM since the first asked for UI improvements, so I can take as much claim for those two things as he can.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
Issler
|

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1818
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 19:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Chanina wrote:Hopefully the average csm interested player will realize that he still needs to do his own choice and look into the candidates he favors. The more time people spend evaluating the candidates and coming to informed decisions, the happier I will be.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |

Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
44
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
You realise that the current voting system also 'wastes' bloc voters votes? Every vote in excess of the minimum required for election could be better spent on electing an alternative candidate who supports my outlook. So whilst the Mittani will get my votes, in the case of an overwhelming landslide I have to deal with the fact that other candidates who I would/could have supported, but did not to secure my first choice, might miss out.
So if your first choice does not get elected, your vote is meaningless, but more votes are wasted on 'winning more' than are wasted by 'not elected'
I don't like AV in real life, and I don't see it offers anything of value here either |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1821
 |
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. This is demonstrably incorrect. For example, every vote The Mittani gets in excess of the number needed for him to become chairman (his stated goal) is a wasted vote; it could have been used to elect other candidates with similar views.
In the last election, The Mittani received 1552 overvotes. These would have been enough to put another candidate onto the CSM. Ntrails pointed this out while I was composing this reply; great minds think alike.
Similarly, about 30% of the votes were cast for candidates who did not get elected. If those had been transferred in some way, the council would have been more representative of the wishes of the voters.
Quote:Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. The fact that such a strategy amplifies the voting power of organized blocs should be obvious to everyone. The sad fact of the matter is that the current voting system forces people to vote tactically.
I would also point out that I am on record as being in favor of a system that does not require tactical voting -- that permits people to vote for who they believe in. This is despite the fact that it may well reduce my vote total, since under such a system, I would not be the beneficiary of tactical votes.
Ntrails wrote:I don't like AV in real life, and I don't see it offers anything of value here either Noticed your post after I'd finished composing the above. Obviously, reasonable people can disagree about which voting system is best, which is why I believe that after these elections, there needs to be a vigorous public debate that involves not just CCP and CSM, but the broader community as well.
While no voting system is perfect (it's provably impossible), I firmly believe that there are election systems that can deliver much more equitable results while retaining the current simple "vote for one candidate" system. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |

Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
3
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Good day,
I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
I will echo the sentiments of some folks here who have mentioned that you have explained little in terms of who each candidate is, what values each candidate represents, and why they should be voted into the CSM.
Now, I take no issue with your disclaimer because it is honest, but the title is misleading as I came here looking for information to help me make better choices with the vote I have, a vote which is supposed to be used for the person I see fit and not for the person who is most likely to win through a mathematical analysis of how many votes it takes to get a seat on a plane to Iceland.
I do not say these words lightly, and I do not mean to disrespect the work you have put on here. That said, I do wish you the best of luck in the elections, and to whatever travels you may make through New Eden.
Thank you for your time. Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |

None ofthe Above
101
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote:Good day,
I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
I will echo the sentiments of some folks here who have mentioned that you have explained little in terms of who each candidate is, what values each candidate represents, and why they should be voted into the CSM.
Now, I take no issue with your disclaimer because it is honest, but the title is misleading as I came here looking for information to help me make better choices with the vote I have, a vote which is supposed to be used for the person I see fit and not for the person who is most likely to win through a mathematical analysis of how many votes it takes to get a seat on a plane to Iceland.
I do not say these words lightly, and I do not mean to disrespect the work you have put on here. That said, I do wish you the best of luck in the elections, and to whatever travels you may make through New Eden.
Thank you for your time.
You know, he called this a guide to the elections... not the candidates. I think he delivered a pretty cogent look at the elections from an independent voter's point of view.
I don't see why you all expect him to duplicate Dierdra Vaal's work on http://match.eve-csm.com/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73650&find=unread
^ Go there for what you are asking for (when its ready).
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |

Skrypt
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm proud of my boy Seleene and all the work he did on CSM6. I know a vote for him this time around certainly won't be wasted.
Vote for Seleene! |

Mfume Apocal
Origin. Nulli Secunda
332
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 06:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice! 
Hey, I'll bet 500M.
|

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
596
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice!  Hey, I'll bet 500M. Bet accepted. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
|

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Red Templar wrote:There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. This is demonstrably incorrect. For example, every vote The Mittani gets in excess of the number needed for him to become chairman (his stated goal) is a wasted vote; it could have been used to elect other candidates with similar views. In the last election, The Mittani received 1552 overvotes. These would have been enough to put another candidate onto the CSM. Ntrails pointed this out while I was composing this reply; great minds think alike. Similarly, about 30% of the votes were cast for candidates who did not get elected. If those had been transferred in some way, the council would have been more representative of the wishes of the voters. Allow me to disagree. If there was a situation where we would be able to monitor amount of votes, and had precise data how many votes candidate has, then that would be correct. But we dont know, we are not allowed to know these kind of things, and we should not be allowed to know this. So how do you know if he has enough votes? Its only your guess. Based on the last year results. But this is not a last year. Your efforts as CSM 6 showed everyone that CSM has some real power and influence. Not the power to introduce some new features, but the power to influence decisions made by CCP, and thats good enough in the right hands. So there is a lot more attention to elections this year, and i expect a lot more people to take part and cast their votes. And as a result, each candidate will need a lot more votes to pass. And also in my opinion it gives much more weight to CSM candidate if he received more votes, and not just from his support group.
No system is perfect, thats true enough. But even in this broken system, i think people should vote for those they believe in, and not second/third choices. Otherwise these elections have no meaning. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote: I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
this  For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |

Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
41
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. This is an example of pidgenholing candidates on a level nobody else (not even Mittens) has attempted.
You're right. No existing council member could document a voting guide in a completely neutral way. But you have to admire the skill of a guy who can guide the minds of the uninformed in a manner that at first glance appears to be impartial. |

Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
180
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 09:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
lol wasting votes on issler also csm 2 & 3 didn't do squat it was a joke, csm 4 brought real influence to the csm, wis: a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.
|

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
541
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice! 
Well the comment of a "flaming cross of impartiality" by someone in your thread did make me laugh out loud. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Anne Tesla
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
0
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 14:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
I'm voting for Hans. Hero of the Republic. |

George Nada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 15:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The current chairman of the CSM, The Mittani, is the classic bloc candidate. To him, you are either a Goon or a "pubbie". The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote!
This is some pretty libelous, sensationalist ****. Wow.
You would think that a mastermind spymaster who heads arguably the most powerful bloc in EVE is quite capable of leading the CSM to victory (Like he did this past year, calling CCP on their bullshit and ultimately resulting in more gameplay improvements since... what... 2008ish?) But nope, since he doesn't suck every **** and kiss every pubbie ass, he's a bad candidate. I see.
Think of it like you would a father or a ship's captain. You may not like him, but you follow him knowing that he knows what is the right thing to do. Merely voting for CSM candidates who "you like" will simply get you more of the past -- e.g. CSM 1-5.
As long as there is hot blonde icelandic poon to chase, i'm sure that mittens will continue to deliver a strong performance as chairman next year like he did this year. |

Takezo Kensei
Session9 Malum Exuro
0
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Wait... you're running yourself and still call this piece `The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections`? Hahaha. No conficts there right? Nope. Like a boss.
You didn't even insert yourself in your `Proven Performers` list. Neh.
Nice of you to openly call the vote for some of the other contenders `a waste`. You really helped me decide who to give my votes (hint: you're not getting any).
And while you're at it learn some deontological ethics (and manners - lol at trying to write an article for the independent guy while you're running yourself for re-election). At least have the brains to put someone else publish this trash piece, you're not doing yourself any favours. |

Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
294
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Takezo Kensei wrote:Wait... you're running yourself and still call this piece `The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections`? Hahaha. No conficts there right? Nope.  Like a boss. You didn't even insert yourself in your `Proven Performers` list. Neh. Nice of you to openly call the vote for some of the other contenders `a waste`. You really helped me decide whom to give my votes (hint: you're not getting any). And while you're at it learn some deontological ethics (and manners - lol at trying to write an article for the independent voter while running for re-election yourself). At least have the brains to put someone else publish this trash piece, you're not doing yourself any favours.
If you can't really argue against the points he made then ignore them, and yell "well yeah but... but... he is biased!!!" Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Takezo Kensei
Session9 Malum Exuro
0
 |
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
I don't need to argue his points, nor do I have any interest in reading them. Was enough that he's doing this stuff from a severely flawed position. Speaks volumes about one's character.
If you seriously have the vertical spine and respect your voters you will never resort to such bullshit when you run for (re)election. |
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