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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1756
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Given the increased interest in the CSM elections this time around, I thought new and independent voters might find a quick guide to voting helpful. As a two-time member of the CSM who gets votes from players in all parts of the game, I believe I have a unique perspective on the whole process, as well as the people who are angling for your votes.
Disclaimer: I am a candidate again, and obviously I want you to vote for me. I'm going to tell you the truth as I perceive it (and I have a reputation for honesty -- at one point in the last election, I told people not to switch their votes to me!), but obviously you should take it with a lump of salt. Also, these are my personal opinions, and not those of any other candidate. That said, let's get started.
The key thing to understand about the elections is that while 14 people get elected to the CSM, only the 7 delegates who receive the most votes travel to Iceland for the summits (if one of them cannot attend, then the delegate who came in 8th attends in his place, and so on). While this is not nearly as crucial as it used to be, a big part of election strategy involves attempts by the large nullsec alliances to pack the top 7 with their candidates, so they can attempt to influence CCP to devote more resources to fixing issues that concern them.
tl/dr: if you are not a member of an alliance with an official candidate, you should vote for a "Proven Performer" (Trebor Daehdoow (me!), Seleene, Two step or Meissa Anunthiel) or the "Serious Contender" (Hans Jagerblitzen). Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
CSM candidates can first be divided into two main categories; bloc-candidates and non-bloc candidates.
Bloc-candidates
tl/dr: If you are not a member of their in-game group, don't vote for them. They don't need your vote to get elected, and don't represent your interests.
Bloc-candidates are those who are running as the official candidate of a large alliance or coalition of alliances. The bloc-candidates in this election are Greene Lee (-A-), Dovinian (TEST), UAxDEATH (Legion of xXDEATHXx), Elise Randolph (PL/RaidenDOT/NCDOT), Kelduum Revaan (EVE University -- also a Special Case, see below), and of course, The Mittani (Goonswarm).
Because bloc-candidates can depend on large numbers of votes from their bloc(s) (and are thus guaranteed a seat on the CSM), they are not beholden to independent voters. You are not one of their "constituents".
The current chairman of the CSM, The Mittani, is the classic bloc candidate. To him, you are either a Goon or a "pubbie". The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote!
In order to achieve this, his entire election campaign is focused on how important it is for him to become chairman again. In fact, his claim that being re-elected chairman with a larger vote total will increase his influence (and that of the CSM) is complete and utter nonsense. The influence of any member of the CSM with CCP depends entirely on how hard they work, the strength of their arguments, and their ability to work as a team, not the number of votes they received -- as was so amply proved on CSM 6 by Two step.
The Mittani is a hard-working member of the CSM (and will be easily re-elected into the top 7), but he'll be just as effective in the #7 slot as the #1 slot.
Non-bloc Candidates
tl/dr: Vote for one of these, but be careful to vote for someone who has a chance of being elected, and in particular, a good shot at gaining a seat in the top 7. If you don't want to spend a lot of time making up your mind, vote for a Proven Performer. Otherwise, do your research, and vote for a Proven Performer or the Serious Contender.
Non-bloc candidates, because they are not the official candidates of a large, organized group, must draw their support from either the entire player population or a large segment of it, often organized around a particular playstyle (like Factional Warfare, or Wormhole Space). As such, they are much more responsive to the needs of their constituents, and focus a lot more on trying to get developer resources allocated to things that improve EVE for broad groups of players.
Non-bloc candidates can be divided up into 5 categories, Proven Performers, Serious Contenders, Special Cases, Newbies, and Comic Relief. Only candidates in the first 3 groups have a reasonable expectation of being elected. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1756
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Proven Performers
These are the candidates who are incumbent CSM members who have proven that they are willing to work hard at improving the game for all the players, not just some narrow constituency. They have a track record of both effort and success, and they are the only non-bloc candidates with a reasonable shot at getting into the top 7.
This year's Proven Performers are: Myself (Trebor Daehdoow), Seleene, Two step and Meissa Anunthiel.
A vote for any Proven Performer will be well spent. Check out the campaign threads to learn why!
The Serious Contender
Serious Contenders are candidates who do not have previous CSM experience, but have demonstrated a serious commitment to the game and the CSM process. While it's unlikely a Serious Contender will make the top 7, they should make it onto the CSM, and hopefully will graduate to Proven Performer status by end of their first term.
This year, interestingly enough, there is only one Serious Contender: Hans Jagerblitzen. While Hans is a passionate advocate for Factional Warfare, it's clear that he also understands the need to represent the interests of the entire EVE community. Furthermore, he has already demonstrated his ability to work hard, by engaging with CSM before the Winter Summit and providing briefing materials about Factional Warfare that were very helpful during our meetings.
If Hans is your preferred candidate and you have only one account, then vote for him. If you have multiple accounts, however, then the current CSM election process presents you with a cruel choice. You want Hans to get enough votes to get on the CSM, but any votes over the number needed to do that are wasted; they could have been used to ensure that more of the Proven Performers make the top 7. So if you have multiple votes, you should consider splitting them between Hans and a Proven Performer.
How you split your votes depends on your estimate of how much support Hans appears to have, and that's a notoriously difficult judgment to make. The best (and admittedly imperfect) proxy for voter sentiment I have found is how well the candidate performs answering questions (and in particular, dealing with trolls) in their campaign threads. If you're impressed, other people will be too. And if you're not, maybe they're not the person for the job.
Special Cases
These are notable non-bloc candidates that don't fit into the first two categories. Most of them have core constituencies that should get them elected without outside help.
Alekseyev Karrde - a member of CSM 4 and leader of Noir Mercenary Group, Alek has a core constituency that should get him elected, but it is unlikely that he can challenge for the top 7. His goal on CSM 7 should be to demonstrate he's a Proven Performer.
Kelduum Revaan - CEO of EVE University, so he'll get votes from some current and former students. He believes he can get more votes than The Mittani, which leads me to question his judgment.
Prometheus Exenthal - Very knowledgeable PvP'r, but he was AWOL for the first third of CSM 6 due to RL issues. After that, he was very productive. If you have wet dreams about EFT, you're already voting for him, but he's a bit too much focused on balancing issues to rate Proven Performer status -- yet. Should cruise to re-election.
Riverini - has a built-in constituency because he runs EVENews24.com. A very polarizing figure, but it's likely that enough people will swear by him (the rest will swear at him) to get him a place on the council.
Draco Llasa - a member of CSM 6 and a nice guy, but not as active as some other members.
Korvin - a member of CSM 5, his campaign this year (at least, in English) is unfocused. Loves to theorycraft, and may squeak into a seat.
Roc Wieler - a well-known EVE-blogger, he will benefit from the fact that Ripard Teg (Jester) is not running this year, and might just make it onto the council. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1756
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Newbies
These are candidates running for the first time, often because they are concerned about a specific issue or set of issues and want to use the election to air their views. Because they don't have broad support, they are unlikely to make it onto the CSM.
Not that it hasn't happened -- I was an issue newbie during the CSM5 elections, although my issues (UI and Lag) were broad in nature, and I had the advantage of out-of-game name recognition. But given how much more competitive CSM elections have become, they face an almost impossible challenge.
If you're thinking about voting for a newbie, read their platform and responses carefully. Look for someone who understands that CSM is about the process, not about getting particular things worked on. It's perfectly fine to have areas of expertise and interest that they want to advocate for, but the real business of the CSM is helping make sure that CCP makes their resource allocation decisions using the best available information -- not single-mindedly pushing for resources to be used to fix particular game issues.
A few newbies are going to make it on the council in the lower slots, and if they work hard, just like Two step they may graduate to Proven Performer status next time around. But unless you have a strong personal reason for voting for a newbie and they are clearly doing better in the forum-wars than other similar candidates (especially in how they respond to trolling), your vote is best spent elsewhere.
This year's newbies include: Blackberry Bold, Blake Armitage, corebloodbrothers, leboe, Mike Azariah, Mu'ad Diib, Sollana, StarConquer212, Vincent Athena, and Voloses.
Of the above, I have heard good things from people whose judgment I trust about corebloodbrothers. In addition, leboe acquitted himself well in his Lost in EVE debate. So if you're dead set on voting for a first-timer and Hans is not your man, then consider one of them. But the realities of the current election system are such that I can't recommend voting for a newbie this year.
Comic Relief
Most of these candidates are just in the election to troll the process, have fun, and provide amusement for people. All they'll do is suck away votes from candidates with a chance of getting elected.
One of the classic techniques used by bloc-candidate supporters to get people to waste votes is to engage in a massive trolling attack to generate both a huge thread and sympathy votes. This is probably happening in the campaign thread of Issler Dainze.
The rest of the comic relief: Akirei Scytale, Darius III, Fon Revedhort, John Zorg, Lyris Nairn, Michael BoltonIII, Mintrolio, PsychoBitch, Skippermonkey, Skye Aurorae (sorry Skye, I'll vote for you when you're old enough!), T'amber Anomandari Demaleon, Tiger Would, and Xenuria.
One Final Note
Whoever you decide to vote for, please take the time to let your friends and corpmates know that you are voting, and encourage them to vote as well. If you found this guide helpful, then take a moment and fire off a tweet or an EVE-Mail, make a post in your internal forums, mention it on comms, or even do something old-fashioned like link it on Facebook.
A big turnout, especially by non-bloc voters, will help offset the inherent advantages that bloc-candidates have, and make it more likely that the CSM -- and in particular, the top 7 -- will be representative of the entire community.
PS: this guide is being posted on Leap Day, so nothing in it can be held against me. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1756
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
reserved Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1756
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
reserved Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Great Guide.
Trebor, Seleene and Two Step are definitely the 3 candidates who will receive my votes.
Past Work on the CSM as well as a good understanding of game mechanics and a passion to move more change through the CSM are some of the positive qualities that all 3 share in my opinion.
Of course after saying that, if they get led around by particular candidates and if they fail to represent some of the change that is really needed now - they are going to hurt next year. Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
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Acthiliak
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
4
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Posted - 2012.02.29 23:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Great read, lots of good info here. |
Master Hu
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 23:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hi |
Honor Dread
Lionheart's Knights
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good read so far...reserved for further comments. |
celestatia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Very well said, goons is bad mmmmmK |
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Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well said Trebor. |
sicarii Masters
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 Thank you for being honest and you have my vote |
Dr RoX0
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Trebor has my vote! |
Angry Slinky
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
its awesome that you took the time to explain this all out, and hopefully gets enough attention so that powerbloc'ing won't produce the usual predictable results. |
Annaeliza
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Very informative. Interesting political insight. |
Morgash Sen
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
This gives me word wood |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1018
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
|
zulrock
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
This thread Is i quote from the incredible Master Hu "Full of Win"
thank you |
zulrock
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 23:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
He mad bro Confirm? |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1018
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
zulrock wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
He mad bro Confirm?
Nope |
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
162
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vote Hans for CSM.
Lets get low sec some representation.
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Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
122
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vote Hans! Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hans is a great guy to fly with. I'm happy to have him in our alliance, as when we aren't shooting everything, Hans is asking what the FW communities wants and doing his own investigating. I would be very very happy with him on the CSM as maybe it could help steer FW in the right direction. Vote Hans! |
Illectroculus Defined
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
I disagree with your classification of Skye as a comedy candidate, her father is more experienced than most of the candidates on the roster. |
Coug
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't know how you could have any better qualifications than being a former developer at CCP yourself. To enact any change at all, you not only have to have good ideas, but have the ability and tact to deliver your message to other human beings in a way that will convince them that your ideas are worth taking a step farther. Having an existing relationship with those people, both previously as a coworker as well as a prior CSM member, makes voting for Seleene one of the easier decisions you can make.
~C~ |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
I would agree with this. Of all the changes that have been made over the past year by the CSM input, almost all of it has nerfed industry and buffer 0.0 in wasteful ways. I wonder just how much "drinking beer in iceland" and how little "pushing real change" has gone on.
We have now got t3 battlecruisers which are basically useless for anyone not in 0.0. We have balance and change looked at for large fleet fighting, but nothing for industry or non-political groups. More Nerfs for empire POS base manufacturing - which in turn means a buff for t2 bpo holders.
The main problem CCP faces with this entire "CSM" idea is that non-political groups don't get a voice. The few who do seem to want to stand for those smaller non-political groups seem to make little or no headway in these issues.
I don't think anyone - even in empire - wants to see spaceships take a huge backseat, but SOME headway must be made on - and I think we're almost there to be honest - recreating the entire industrial base of eve online.
Every change for the past 4-5 years has nerfed industry in some way. Some reports show 2/3rds of mining is bot/afk based.
Plenty of games over the past couple of years have professed to be "sandboxes" but offered little in the way of anything but combat. (Darkfall online, Mortal Online). They have died because they lacked the holistic view of the game. They concentrated just on combat and ended up with a game that just didn't deliver the full range of activities that a sandbox needs to keep players interested.
Don't allow EvE to go down the same road - no matter how reasonable it might seem to continue just updating the "spaceships" and leaving the "carebears" to deal with it. Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
292
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Very good - if not obvious- points Trebor. Voting for a bloc candidate in a bloc that you don't belong to is voting for someone who won't represent you. This has been made explicitly clear by the most prominent bloc candidate. Yet I still think people will be dumb enough to throw those votes away.
At least you tried. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
991
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Every change for the past 4-5 years has nerfed industry in some way. Some reports show 2/3rds of mining is bot/afk based.
Which reports show that Gàö of mining is bot based?
Why is AFK mining bad? Come chat about industry with Seleene and myself on our respective blogs. |
None ofthe Above
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Very well done.
I might have a few quibbles with classifications.
For example there are several candidates on the ballot that are intentionally there as a joke, a few more that are a joke but not on purpose. Others you place in that category have every right to take offense at being called "comic relief".
Perhaps "long shots" might be a better term.
One thing I think needs to be focused on is just getting people to vote, we need those numbers up.
But not randomly and there is no true "None of the Above" vote.
I personally endorse Tiger Would for the protest vote. Anyone that desires real change and wants to send that message, he's running on that platform, I urge you and other candidates to support this view. Now more than ever, we need the EVE community engaged in shaping its future.
Otherwise as is obvious I of course endorse Hans Jagerblitzen, but hope to see the proven performers as well as some of the others on CSM7.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 00:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:Every change for the past 4-5 years has nerfed industry in some way. Some reports show 2/3rds of mining is bot/afk based. Which reports show that Gàö of mining is bot based? Why is AFK mining bad? Come chat about industry with Seleene and myself on our respective blogs.
Report from a high-sec ganker. (Sorry that is actually to a post of mine where I quote them, but the link is in there for their original post).
You have to admit, that even coming from someone who is ganking these guys and finding so many botters - is a bad sign. And really just an additional sign that CCP isn't working too hard at finding these botters.
AFK mining isn't really that bad, but does still detract from the entire idea of multiplayer at all. And the fact that it can be done AFK while almost all other activities can't be done AFK is an inbalance and an additional reason it should be changed to help stop the ease with which these programs can be written for botting.
Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
|
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Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
1724
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nice guide, and well written, however I wouldn't really consider myself a 'bloc candidate' as a significant proportion of the EVE University bloc either overlaps with one or more of the others, or doesn't have an account old enough to vote.
To be honest, and from Trebor's definition - "candidates who do not have previous CSM experience, but have demonstrated a serious commitment to the game and the CSM process" - I would count myself more as a 'Serious Contender'. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University
Candidate,-áCSM7 |
Kossaw
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Very good - if not obvious- points Trebor. Voting for a bloc candidate in a bloc that you don't belong to is voting for someone who won't represent you. This has been made explicitly clear by the most prominent bloc candidate.
For my 2c I'd say that Seleene is the exception to this rule.
If you want someone with an excellent understanding of how to balance the game for all of us in Null Sec, Lo Sec, Wormholes AND Hi Sec you should be voting for this guy.
And hats of to Trebor for starting this thread
|
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
163
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
On point analysis and you masterfully articulated the strategy that I believed to be occurring with the nullsec blocs. I am surprised you are the first person to have wrote about this anywhere?
May I recommend that notable bloggers consider reposting this analysis with their own thoughts as well to help educate voters
Candidates should consider rallying votes in local chat channels at major hubs. Not everyone reads the EVE O forums
If you are looking for a candidate that runs on a nullsec platform but isn't part of the powerbloc, you may want to consider Riverini. He wrote a great piece on revamping nullsec recently and showed that he may well be worth voting for despite the stigma some have placed on him for running EN24
My vote goes for Hans. If you want Empire and FW space enhanced, Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66900&find=unread |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Great Post, Good Guide.
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
66
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. This is an example of pidgenholing candidates on a level nobody else (not even Mittens) has attempted.
Just because one or two of the "bloc" candidates has shown that they don't care about concerns from outside their bloc, you have decided to paint all the candidates supported by a 0.0 alliance with the same brush.
Take Elise for an example. He won alternate spots mostly through non-allied votes in the past (PL doesn't have enough votes to get anyone anywhere by itself) and he only received endorsements from other alliances well into his campaign. What evidence have you seen that he intends to ignore the interests of independent players? If Nulli Secunda endorsed you tomorrow, would you tell independent players not to vote for you? Voters should judge candidates by their actions and platforms.
Also, statements about how certain candidates will easily win seats (implying that undecided voters should ignore them) when many of them have almost no chance of reaching your vote total seems a bit disingenuous.
I actually agree with large chunks of your assessments, and I would like to see you on CSM 7, but don't try to claim that this thread is for the benefit of undecided voters. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1479
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
As always, Trebor is insightful and helpful (and he clearly received my substantial bribe). Vote Two step for CSM 7 CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog |
Billy Gunslinger
PI Gurus and Explorers
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:The Mittani is a hard-working member of the CSM (and will be easily re-elected into the top 7), but he'll be just as effective in the #7 slot as the #1 slot.
QFT. There's nothing standoutish about his qualities to have to be the chairman. Others are capable of doing it |
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
484
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'll have you know I'm quite deadly serious.
Good post though. T'amber for CSM7 - Ship and Client Customisation Take part in the 2min Ship Customisation Survey www.tinyurl.com/shipcustomisation
|
Mike Azariah
Gallente Benevolence Association Greater Realms
188
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Interesting sorting . . . I haven't thought of myself as a newbie in the CSM matters for a long time.
m |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
A solid and sober analysis, thank you for drafting it. |
|
Billy Gunslinger
PI Gurus and Explorers
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. This is an example of pidgenholing candidates on a level nobody else (not even Mittens) has attempted.
Just because one or two of the "bloc" candidates has shown that they don't care about concerns from outside their bloc, you have decided to paint all the candidates supported by a 0.0 alliance with the same brush.
Take Elise for an example. He won alternate spots mostly through non-allied votes in the past (PL doesn't have enough votes to get anyone anywhere by itself) and he only received endorsements from other alliances well into his campaign. What evidence have you seen that he intends to ignore the interests of independent players? If Nulli Secunda endorsed you tomorrow, would you tell independent players not to vote for you? Voters should judge candidates by their actions and platforms.
Also, statements about how certain candidates will easily win seats (implying that undecided voters should ignore them) when many of them have almost no chance of reaching your vote total seems a bit disingenuous.
I actually agree with large chunks of your assessments, and I would like to see you on CSM 7, but don't try to claim that this thread is for the benefit of undecided voters.
I agree that there will be never complete 100% impartiality from Trebor who wrote this guide. But if the best counter one can give is that, then I'm sure the OP (and the voters) can still live with it. It's still one hell of a insightful analysis.
And besides, a fellow PL corp mate defending Elise only supports your own bias that you accuse of Trebor of. So people should also take your advice with a grain of salt |
Arno Gunnarr
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Great read,
Knowing Hans for 2 1/2 years, he is easy to work with, very wiling in a sense that I do not see too often from the MMO crowd.
He has a very patient, honest, empathetic and passionate attitude in the best and worst of times. I really cannot say that about everyone I have played with. More so, if I had not believed he was electable or capable, I would not be voting him. I take my CSM votes very seriously, especially after the CCP fiasco of 2011.
I suck at endorsements.
-Vote for Hans and receive a Hans job!-
...meh, had to. |
Sneaky Noob
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
My name is Sneaky Noob and I endorse the product/service. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'm really hoping to get Seleene, Two Step and Trebor back in with my votes and votes of some people close to me.
I really think they are the best bet for change in eve, which is sorely needed - not a change away from 0.0 or a change away from PVP - but a change to INCLUDE a bunch of other things.
Wormholes, FW, Industry, Market, Low-sec, all of these mechanics, gameplay types and issues require refining, thinking about and improvement. Perhaps they will also look at the mechanics behind 100MN Tengu's and Tracking Titans.
We've had maybe 3-4 years now of PVP changes, New ships, new mechanics for POS's and I think we're on Sov version 4.1 (confirm? lol) and still no change in the aforementioned topics.
These are the things I HOPE Seleene, Two Step and Trebor can start to tackle if re-elected. They all have experience, level heads and above all passion for the game, CCP and CSM.
I really hope others will vote with me. But if not, I would never call any candidate a joke vote or wasted vote.
In turn I really hope the CSM who DOES get elected, looks at the voting afterwards and takes a good look at what other candidates stood for and got votes for.
Those voice still need to be heard even if they didn't get a candidate elected.
If the CSM election process has a flaw - that is it. And I am sure these candidates are aware of that fact more than any other. CSM7 Industry Voting Guide
|
Ejen Nailo
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
+1. This thread is very helpful and informative. Thank you and I wish you luck.
Oh and vote for Hans xD |
Surat Do'Cameran
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 02:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
Sit down, shut up and go back to mining trit to turn into ships that the rest of us can go pew in. You were an ALT for most of your CSM time until a "main" stepped down. You raised no issues within the CSM in your time and are quoted in t he CSM minutes as being unable to figure out T3 production business models ad stating that T3 ship were of "dubious" value. You were out of touch and ignorant then and are so now.
As for the issues that Trebor has pushed, I guess POS fuel changes and UI improvements are useless to a carebear like yourself?
Go away and stop filling the forum drives with your drivel. Stop campaigning against candidates with actual ability and splitting the vote. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1785
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 02:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Very good - if not obvious- points Trebor. Voting for a bloc candidate in a bloc that you don't belong to is voting for someone who won't represent you. This has been made explicitly clear by the most prominent bloc candidate. Yet I still think people will be dumb enough to throw those votes away.
At least you tried. I will continue to do my best, but anyone who agrees with the general thesis must also be willing to do their part, spread the word, and increase turnout for viable non-bloc candidates.
None ofthe Above wrote:For example there are several candidates on the ballot that are intentionally there as a joke, a few more that are a joke but not on purpose. Others you place in that category have every right to take offense at being called "comic relief".
Perhaps "long shots" might be a better term. In retrospect, I agree that Long Shots is a better term. I will update the post and make this change.
Illectroculus Defined wrote:I disagree with your classification of Skye as a comedy candidate, her father is more experienced than most of the candidates on the roster. Skye was one of several candidates whose classification I agonized over. However, I believe the classification name change noted above addresses your concern.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1785
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 02:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:To be honest, and from Trebor's definition - "candidates who do not have previous CSM experience, but have demonstrated a serious commitment to the game and the CSM process" - I would count myself more as a 'Serious Contender'. Kelduum, you are another candidate who is hard to classify. In the end, I decided you were a special case because I think you've got enough of a constituency to get elected, whereas Hans is still contending to get on.
Kossaw wrote:For my 2c I'd say that Seleene is the exception to this rule. Seleene does not have have the support of a bloc this year, AFAIK.
Raivi wrote:Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. I make no claims that it is impartial; in fact, I specifically disclose my conflict right at the top of the post!
I am merely making a reasoned argument in favor of a voting strategy that I believe will maximize non-bloc influence in CSM 7. I don't think bloc influence is bad; I merely do not wish it to be disproportionate. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Lux Exterior
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 03:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote: ...almost all of it has nerfed industry and buffer 0.0 in wasteful ways.
Please expand on this, how?
Revolution Rising wrote: We have now got t3 battlecruisers which are basically useless for anyone not in 0.0. We have balance and change looked at for large fleet fighting, but nothing for industry or non-political groups. More Nerfs for empire POS base manufacturing - which in turn means a buff for t2 bpo holders.
Tier 3 battlecruisers are very widely used in highsec for suicide ganking, I agree they have no PvE application in common with most T2/T3 ships, what's your point? What does Industry need other than a constant flow of paying customers, you want improvements to your 'Excel' playstyle interface? How does someone having a T2 BPO affect your invents please?
Revolution Rising wrote: The main problem CCP faces with this entire "CSM" idea is that non-political groups don't get a voice. The few who do seem to want to stand for those smaller non-political groups seem to make little or no headway in these issues.
What mechanism do you want introduced which can represent minority groups, some form of lobbying, like using the forums?
Revolution Rising wrote: I don't think anyone - even in empire - wants to see spaceships take a huge backseat, but SOME headway must be made on - and I think we're almost there to be honest - recreating the entire industrial base of eve online.
Every change for the past 4-5 years has nerfed industry in some way. Some reports show 2/3rds of mining is bot/afk based.
Plenty of games over the past couple of years have professed to be "sandboxes" but offered little in the way of anything but combat. (Darkfall online, Mortal Online). They have died because they lacked the holistic view of the game. They concentrated just on combat and ended up with a game that just didn't deliver the full range of activities that a sandbox needs to keep players interested.
Don't allow EvE to go down the same road - no matter how reasonable it might seem to continue just updating the "spaceships" and leaving the "carebears" to deal with it.
Without spaceships blowing up you have no game, no-one will buy your stuff, your spreadsheets will become irrelevant.
Face it, you have not made any specific proposals for how you would like to see this game improved, you have made sweeping generalisations about 'politics' and stuffz without suggesting an alternative means of representation and you're agreeing with a guy whose sole platform appears to be identifying a sector of the demographic which he believes is under-represented.
You and your 'thumbsup' supporters are sheep with no clear idea of what they want other than fatter wallets than you have already and hangers full of shiny stuff you never fly.
Poor industrialists indeed, I've never met one! |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
786
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 04:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Longshot, reporting for duty
|
|
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
68
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 04:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Raivi wrote:Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. I make no claims that it is impartial; in fact, I specifically disclose my conflict right at the top of the post! I am merely making a reasoned argument in favor of a voting strategy that I believe will maximize non-bloc influence in CSM 7. I don't think bloc influence is bad; I merely do not wish it to be disproportionate.
You're right about the disclaimer and my phrasing probably leaves something to be desired. To clarify, I would argue that your guide is too biased to be of significant use to an undecided voter. I assume you disagree :)
Your assertion that all nullsec candidates are of equally low value to all independent voters is not backed up by any evidence, as all of your specific arguments about them are aimed only at Mittens. Your statements that several candidates will easily win (implying that they aren't worth votes) while not mentioning that you are also virtually guaranteed a spot is obviously disingenuous. I'm glad to see you changed the wording concerning the "troll" candidate, but you seem to have had an initial issue separating the actual trolls from other candidates that have little chance of winning for other reasons.
You seem like a generally reasonable guy, but this "guide" leaves a lot to be desired. A better strategy would be to collect the candidates platforms in a clear format and let the voters cut the wheat from the chaff. The trolls aren't hard to spot. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 05:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Perhaps you should do a search before you say I haven't proposed ideas ;)
That is one, that I could easily find. These posts aren't exactly hidden.
This isn't really the place for those conversations, this is a place for reflection on the candidates and their relation to the issues.
If you wish to try and say that t3 battlecruisers are great ideas to use under low-sec gate guns, or that eve is better off without an industrial expansion.. EVER. Perhaps you should try and make those points in the appropriate places?
Or perhaps your point was that ... oh in fact you didn't make one.
In fact perhaps it was just to be stupid by attacking someone who has wholeheartedly agreed with the fact that the Dirt Nap candidate should be voted for?
Nice job. I'm glad you had the chance to **** up the thread like this. CSM7 Industry Voting Guide
|
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
514
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 05:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Trebor is always willing to give 100% and does not press any agendas that are clearly only because it will benefit him or his alliance. Even when we don't deserve it, he has always been there to communicate with the masses and keep us up to speed with the on goings of the CSM.
I'm still undecided but, I do know a vote for Trebor will not be a wasted vote.
|
FlashSpawn
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 06:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
I endorse this thread and I will be voting for Seleeeenie because he is my father!
Flash |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
589
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 06:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
LOL
A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself.
Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money.
edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice! Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
589
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
Raivi wrote: Also, statements about how certain candidates will easily win seats (implying that undecided voters should ignore them) when many of them have almost no chance of reaching your vote total seems a bit disingenuous.
I actually agree with large chunks of your assessments, and I would like to see you on CSM 7, but don't try to claim that this thread is for the benefit of undecided voters.
The very idea of independent voters needing a guide is dubious - how are they independent if they're governed by a mere guide? Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
125
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Raivi wrote: Also, statements about how certain candidates will easily win seats (implying that undecided voters should ignore them) when many of them have almost no chance of reaching your vote total seems a bit disingenuous.
I actually agree with large chunks of your assessments, and I would like to see you on CSM 7, but don't try to claim that this thread is for the benefit of undecided voters.
The very idea of independent voters needing a guide is dubious - how are they independent if they're governed by a mere guide?
Even if you do secure a seat due to Russian drones voting for you, hopefully the other CSM members will ostracize you because of your blatant racism. Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Marco Bartoli
The Unknown Bar and Pub
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 07:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is a good guide. Trebor, Meissa and Two step all made great contributions to the CSM process, and Hans has some really great ideas that would be nice to see represented on the CSM, and they all really do deserve votes. However, I'm still enthusiastic about a CSM7 chaired by Mittens considering how productive CSM6 managed to be in comparison to those CSMs before it, and the general accomplishments it made especially in handling Incarna. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
589
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 08:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Raivi wrote: Also, statements about how certain candidates will easily win seats (implying that undecided voters should ignore them) when many of them have almost no chance of reaching your vote total seems a bit disingenuous.
I actually agree with large chunks of your assessments, and I would like to see you on CSM 7, but don't try to claim that this thread is for the benefit of undecided voters.
The very idea of independent voters needing a guide is dubious - how are they independent if they're governed by a mere guide? Even if you do secure a seat due to Russian drones voting for you, hopefully the other CSM members will ostracize you because of your blatant racism. You do realize you're wishing CSM to run at reduced efficiency, don't you? Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Hans Roaming
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
Seleene as a CCP dev brought us wormholes and has worked hard as a CSM candidate. I think that knowing both sides of the fence is an asset that any CSM team should have so I'll be voting for Seleene and so should you. |
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
625
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 09:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you |
Miri'ori
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 10:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
I want to give Faction Warfer a voice.
I want to give Hisec/lowsec people a face.
My vote for Hans Jagherblitzen.
live long and prosper |
Ned Black
Driders
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nobody who is part of a thing will ever be impartial nor independent.
I find it interresting that you tell people to use one vote on Hans and the rest on one of the serious contenders because any other vote would be wasted on him... I kind of disagree here.... completely.
From what I have seen the current CSMs are starting eyeball Hans more and more because he is becoming dangerously popular among the high/low/fw crowd. And that bunch is a fairly big crowd but traditionally very split up in warring factions... but if they come together behind him I would say that Hans have a serious chance of not only getting into the CSM but getting right to the top 7.
Where I put my votes is yet to be decided, but Hans surely have perked my interrest even if Im not in the ls/fw crowd. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:45:00 -
[64] - Quote
I think the summary is a sound one, and although I may not agree with all the choices, Trebor is a good man, and has always struck me as level headed and as objective as you get. |
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES The Citadel of Asgard
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you
Yes it is sad. Non the less i think it is true. The bloc candidates will get there votes. Just some number experiments: Say you have 6k voters, 2k of them go for goons, another 2k support 3 other bloc candidates. the last part of 2k voters has 20 candidates that have great ideas and good intentions to run for a seat.
Now think there are just 4 Seats, how big is the chance that the 2k spread over 20 candidates will reach a higher mark than 2k spread over 3? It MAY occur but the odds are against it.
I respect everyone who makes efforts for this great game whether he runs for CSM or not. But as non bloc candidates you should really try to group your self together to rally behind one front runner. The guy (or girl) who finally gets the seat does not need to be the one with the best ideas, but the one who can work with others and communicate the ideas of the community to ccp.
Once the votes are over and the results are out, everyone favoring non-bloc candidates should keep up their good work and support those who made it into the council.
@Trebor: Good guide. It is hart to not step on someones toe and you might have hit some but overall this is a good point to start at. Hopefully the average csm interested player will realize that he still needs to do his own choice and look into the candidates he favors. |
Drackarn
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 11:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Good post.
I'll be voting with all of my toons for Hans Jagerblitzen.
CSM 6 has done a great job. But the minutes appear to reveal they know nothing about faction war. And why should they, I know nothing about null-sec.
CSM 7 needs a delegate who knows low-sec, hi-sec and faction war. Hans is that man. http://sandciderandspaceships.blogspot.com/ |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1801
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 12:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Your assertion that all nullsec candidates are of equally low value to all independent voters is not backed up by any evidence, as all of your specific arguments about them are aimed only at Mittens. I singled out The Mittani because of all the bloc candidates, he is making by far the strongest effort to attract votes from outside his natural voting bloc. And also, the focus of the document is about how non-bloc voters can maximize the value of their vote. Since all the bloc-candidates are going to get elected, and most of them get elected into the top 7, votes for them provide less value to an independent voter than votes for candidates with a proven track record of representing the interests of all the players.
Quote:Your statements that several candidates will easily win (implying that they aren't worth votes) while not mentioning that you are also virtually guaranteed a spot is obviously disingenuous. While I think it highly likely that I will be re-elected, getting into the 7 is another story. The competition this year is much stiffer, and turnout will be higher. I don't believe any non-bloc candidate is a lock for the 7.
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: Any other choice will be a waste of your vote.
It makes me sad to here this from you I am sorry you feel this way. Unfortunately, the fact that the election system has not been changed to reduce wasted votes (as in, votes for candidates who did not get elected), and the reduction in the number of Iceland seats to 7, has resulted in a situation where independent voters have to make cruel choices in order to balance bloc power. I blogged about this back in January.
I have been pushing CCP to reform the election mechanic since right after the last election, but they did not want to introduce too many changes this time around. I would like to see an open discussion with the community about this topic, culminating in changes for the next election.
Ideally, voters should be able to cast their ballot for their preferred candidate without worrying that their vote will be wasted. But in the current election, this is sadly not the case. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
It would be a nice guide if it was void of personal agenda leaking from every paragraph.You are a true politician Trebor. And i dont mean it in a nice way.
And i strongly disagree that votes for popular candidates that have bloc support are wasted votes. There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. And certainly not voting for their second/third person on the like list, just because they think that their primary candidate has enough votes already. Thats bullshit that can have a very big cost and harsh consequences.
Cheers. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
MakkAnzy
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
I support Seleeneee as he knows this game the best! He has always worked hard to make it a better game. IE Wormholes!
Please support Seleene as we need him back on CSM! |
Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 13:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Good read...but you left out the longshot. Would you like a kitten? |
|
Destru Kaneda
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 14:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen. http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/ http://binaerpilot.no/ GMU d-(---)pu s+++:-- a-- C++++$ U>+++ P+ L+ E---- W+++$ w PS+++ PE-- Y++ PGP-- t+ tv-- b+ D++ G e- h r++ y+* |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1025
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 16:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
Surat Do'Cameran wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Wow, and now we are down to personal attacks.
I am also a two time elected to the CSM candidate and have 8 years committed to Eve. I've run a mining corp for over six years and an alliance for 5 years. I've experienced all aspects of Eve and proved in the past I am committed to the Eve community. I have a background in software engineering (42 years) and direct games industry experience.
To claim voting for me is a wasted vote and support for me is "sympathy" is both wrong and insulting.
So miner's don't accept that your voices are unimportant and vour support is just sympathy.
And to everyone else reading this nonsense "guide" ask yourself how Trebor made your life in Eve better recently. I expect you'll be struggling to find an answer.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
Sit down, shut up and go back to mining trit to turn into ships that the rest of us can go pew in. You were an ALT for most of your CSM time until a "main" stepped down. You raised no issues within the CSM in your time and are quoted in t he CSM minutes as being unable to figure out T3 production business models ad stating that T3 ship were of "dubious" value. You were out of touch and ignorant then and are so now. As for the issues that Trebor has pushed, I guess POS fuel changes and UI improvements are useless to a carebear like yourself? Go away and stop filling the forum drives with your drivel. Stop campaigning against candidates with actual ability and splitting the vote.
I served a full term first time elected and half the second term so the majority of my time I was an acting CSM member and not an alt.
POS fuel changes came up long before Trebor made it into the CSM. We discussed it with CCP when I was in CSM 2. As have been UI changes. Every CSM since the first asked for UI improvements, so I can take as much claim for those two things as he can.
Issler Dainze The Miner's Friend CSM 7 Candidate
Issler
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1818
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 19:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Chanina wrote:Hopefully the average csm interested player will realize that he still needs to do his own choice and look into the candidates he favors. The more time people spend evaluating the candidates and coming to informed decisions, the happier I will be.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 20:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
You realise that the current voting system also 'wastes' bloc voters votes? Every vote in excess of the minimum required for election could be better spent on electing an alternative candidate who supports my outlook. So whilst the Mittani will get my votes, in the case of an overwhelming landslide I have to deal with the fact that other candidates who I would/could have supported, but did not to secure my first choice, might miss out.
So if your first choice does not get elected, your vote is meaningless, but more votes are wasted on 'winning more' than are wasted by 'not elected'
I don't like AV in real life, and I don't see it offers anything of value here either |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1821
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 21:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. This is demonstrably incorrect. For example, every vote The Mittani gets in excess of the number needed for him to become chairman (his stated goal) is a wasted vote; it could have been used to elect other candidates with similar views.
In the last election, The Mittani received 1552 overvotes. These would have been enough to put another candidate onto the CSM. Ntrails pointed this out while I was composing this reply; great minds think alike.
Similarly, about 30% of the votes were cast for candidates who did not get elected. If those had been transferred in some way, the council would have been more representative of the wishes of the voters.
Quote:Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. The fact that such a strategy amplifies the voting power of organized blocs should be obvious to everyone. The sad fact of the matter is that the current voting system forces people to vote tactically.
I would also point out that I am on record as being in favor of a system that does not require tactical voting -- that permits people to vote for who they believe in. This is despite the fact that it may well reduce my vote total, since under such a system, I would not be the beneficiary of tactical votes.
Ntrails wrote:I don't like AV in real life, and I don't see it offers anything of value here either Noticed your post after I'd finished composing the above. Obviously, reasonable people can disagree about which voting system is best, which is why I believe that after these elections, there needs to be a vigorous public debate that involves not just CCP and CSM, but the broader community as well.
While no voting system is perfect (it's provably impossible), I firmly believe that there are election systems that can deliver much more equitable results while retaining the current simple "vote for one candidate" system. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Victor Stillwater
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 01:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Good day,
I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
I will echo the sentiments of some folks here who have mentioned that you have explained little in terms of who each candidate is, what values each candidate represents, and why they should be voted into the CSM.
Now, I take no issue with your disclaimer because it is honest, but the title is misleading as I came here looking for information to help me make better choices with the vote I have, a vote which is supposed to be used for the person I see fit and not for the person who is most likely to win through a mathematical analysis of how many votes it takes to get a seat on a plane to Iceland.
I do not say these words lightly, and I do not mean to disrespect the work you have put on here. That said, I do wish you the best of luck in the elections, and to whatever travels you may make through New Eden.
Thank you for your time. Butt-kicking for goodness! - Minsc, Baldur's Gate Series
Feel free to read my game-related writings at http://www.gamesandgeekery.com |
None ofthe Above
101
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote:Good day,
I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
I will echo the sentiments of some folks here who have mentioned that you have explained little in terms of who each candidate is, what values each candidate represents, and why they should be voted into the CSM.
Now, I take no issue with your disclaimer because it is honest, but the title is misleading as I came here looking for information to help me make better choices with the vote I have, a vote which is supposed to be used for the person I see fit and not for the person who is most likely to win through a mathematical analysis of how many votes it takes to get a seat on a plane to Iceland.
I do not say these words lightly, and I do not mean to disrespect the work you have put on here. That said, I do wish you the best of luck in the elections, and to whatever travels you may make through New Eden.
Thank you for your time.
You know, he called this a guide to the elections... not the candidates. I think he delivered a pretty cogent look at the elections from an independent voter's point of view.
I don't see why you all expect him to duplicate Dierdra Vaal's work on http://match.eve-csm.com/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73650&find=unread
^ Go there for what you are asking for (when its ready).
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
Skrypt
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 02:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm proud of my boy Seleene and all the work he did on CSM6. I know a vote for him this time around certainly won't be wasted.
Vote for Seleene! |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Nulli Secunda
332
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 06:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice!
Hey, I'll bet 500M.
|
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
596
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice! Hey, I'll bet 500M. Bet accepted. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
|
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Red Templar wrote:There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. This is demonstrably incorrect. For example, every vote The Mittani gets in excess of the number needed for him to become chairman (his stated goal) is a wasted vote; it could have been used to elect other candidates with similar views. In the last election, The Mittani received 1552 overvotes. These would have been enough to put another candidate onto the CSM. Ntrails pointed this out while I was composing this reply; great minds think alike. Similarly, about 30% of the votes were cast for candidates who did not get elected. If those had been transferred in some way, the council would have been more representative of the wishes of the voters. Allow me to disagree. If there was a situation where we would be able to monitor amount of votes, and had precise data how many votes candidate has, then that would be correct. But we dont know, we are not allowed to know these kind of things, and we should not be allowed to know this. So how do you know if he has enough votes? Its only your guess. Based on the last year results. But this is not a last year. Your efforts as CSM 6 showed everyone that CSM has some real power and influence. Not the power to introduce some new features, but the power to influence decisions made by CCP, and thats good enough in the right hands. So there is a lot more attention to elections this year, and i expect a lot more people to take part and cast their votes. And as a result, each candidate will need a lot more votes to pass. And also in my opinion it gives much more weight to CSM candidate if he received more votes, and not just from his support group.
No system is perfect, thats true enough. But even in this broken system, i think people should vote for those they believe in, and not second/third choices. Otherwise these elections have no meaning. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
Victor Stillwater wrote: I came across this post through a twitter announcement, and while I do think you mean well, this isn't really much of a voter's guide so much as it is a guide to gaming the CSM voting system so that specific people get to go to CCP-land and offer their input into the systems that define EVE.
The very nature of a voter's guide is that is an impartial listing of all candidates for particular positions, as well as their platforms and possibly their qualifications for being voted into office.
this For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Trebor, everything I've seen and heard about you suggests you're a very hard worker who deserves reelection. However this thread is a bit silly. No "voters guide" written by an active candidate can ever claim to be impartial. This is an example of pidgenholing candidates on a level nobody else (not even Mittens) has attempted.
You're right. No existing council member could document a voting guide in a completely neutral way. But you have to admire the skill of a guy who can guide the minds of the uninformed in a manner that at first glance appears to be impartial. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 09:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
lol wasting votes on issler also csm 2 & 3 didn't do squat it was a joke, csm 4 brought real influence to the csm, wis: a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.
|
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
541
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice!
Well the comment of a "flaming cross of impartiality" by someone in your thread did make me laugh out loud. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Anne Tesla
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 14:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
I'm voting for Hans. Hero of the Republic. |
George Nada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 15:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The current chairman of the CSM, The Mittani, is the classic bloc candidate. To him, you are either a Goon or a "pubbie". The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote!
This is some pretty libelous, sensationalist ****. Wow.
You would think that a mastermind spymaster who heads arguably the most powerful bloc in EVE is quite capable of leading the CSM to victory (Like he did this past year, calling CCP on their bullshit and ultimately resulting in more gameplay improvements since... what... 2008ish?) But nope, since he doesn't suck every **** and kiss every pubbie ass, he's a bad candidate. I see.
Think of it like you would a father or a ship's captain. You may not like him, but you follow him knowing that he knows what is the right thing to do. Merely voting for CSM candidates who "you like" will simply get you more of the past -- e.g. CSM 1-5.
As long as there is hot blonde icelandic poon to chase, i'm sure that mittens will continue to deliver a strong performance as chairman next year like he did this year. |
Takezo Kensei
Session9 Malum Exuro
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 16:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Wait... you're running yourself and still call this piece `The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections`? Hahaha. No conficts there right? Nope. Like a boss.
You didn't even insert yourself in your `Proven Performers` list. Neh.
Nice of you to openly call the vote for some of the other contenders `a waste`. You really helped me decide who to give my votes (hint: you're not getting any).
And while you're at it learn some deontological ethics (and manners - lol at trying to write an article for the independent guy while you're running yourself for re-election). At least have the brains to put someone else publish this trash piece, you're not doing yourself any favours. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
294
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Takezo Kensei wrote:Wait... you're running yourself and still call this piece `The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections`? Hahaha. No conficts there right? Nope. Like a boss. You didn't even insert yourself in your `Proven Performers` list. Neh. Nice of you to openly call the vote for some of the other contenders `a waste`. You really helped me decide whom to give my votes (hint: you're not getting any). And while you're at it learn some deontological ethics (and manners - lol at trying to write an article for the independent voter while running for re-election yourself). At least have the brains to put someone else publish this trash piece, you're not doing yourself any favours.
If you can't really argue against the points he made then ignore them, and yell "well yeah but... but... he is biased!!!" Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Takezo Kensei
Session9 Malum Exuro
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
I don't need to argue his points, nor do I have any interest in reading them. Was enough that he's doing this stuff from a severely flawed position. Speaks volumes about one's character.
If you seriously have the vertical spine and respect your voters you will never resort to such bullshit when you run for (re)election. |
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
294
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:34:00 -
[91] - Quote
George Nada wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The current chairman of the CSM, The Mittani, is the classic bloc candidate. To him, you are either a Goon or a "pubbie". The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote! This is some pretty libelous, sensationalist ****. Wow. You would think that a mastermind spymaster who heads arguably the most powerful bloc in EVE is quite capable of leading the CSM to victory .
Yes indeed if he is good at a computer game he must be good at something that requires real life skills.
George Nada wrote: Think of it like you would a father or a ship's captain. You may not like him, but you follow him knowing that he knows what is the right thing to do. .
Are you really this obsequious? Obey mittens command to vote for him like he is your captain or your father? I puked a little in my mouth.
George Nada wrote: Merely voting for CSM candidates who "you like" will simply get you more of the past -- e.g. CSM 1-5.
As long as there is hot blonde icelandic poon to chase, i'm sure that mittens will continue to deliver a strong performance as chairman next year like he did this year.
Great success at what?
His first act after being elected was to defend the horribly stupid path ccp was taking with incarna. Read his "In defense of incarna" if you doubt it.
He ran on a platform that said he would not push for blasters or assembly hall issues to be implemented and laughed at anyone who said they would be able to do that. Well we got our blaster fix. He specifically said csm shouldn't be pushing for these assembly hall changes we see were implemented in crucible. So he was wrong again. I love that he is trying to take credit for it now.
Even if you are in null sec I don't see what he has to offer. He admits its broken yet he is offering nothing specific as to how the capture mechanics should be fixed.
Mittani on what should happen in null sec: "However, I don't have any specific ideas about capture mechanics, nor did CCP bring up any at the summit" So nothing really changed did it? Its still broken. Another year of mittani at the head is likely to bring another year of nothing happening in null sec and no changes happening that will improve the game there.
Face it he is running because lots of mindless drones like you will vote for him even though he really tells us nothing about what he would like changed in eve.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1840
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:45:00 -
[92] - Quote
George Nada wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote! This is some pretty libelous, sensationalist ****. Wow. Really? The Mittani has been very forthright with respect to his opinions about "pubbies". A casual EVE-Search is all you need to do.
Quote:But nope, since he doesn't suck every **** and kiss every pubbie ass, he's a bad candidate. I see. Did I say that? Not at all. The Mittani is a hard-working member of the CSM, and deserves to be re-elected. All I said was that he doesn't need non-goon votes to get re-elected, and doesn't care much for the opinions of non-goons, so there was no reason why they should vote for him -- their vote could be better spent elsewhere.
Quote:As long as there is hot blonde icelandic poon to chase, i'm sure that mittens will continue to deliver a strong performance I hate to break it to you, but Mrs. Mittens makes him put his manhood in a blind trust before leaving for Iceland.
Takezo Kensei wrote:At least have the brains to put someone else publish this trash piece, you're not doing yourself any favours. Which would you prefer, someone who openly states his opinions, even if they might be unpopular (or cost him votes), or someone who hides behind alts and surrogates? Surely not the latter.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:George Nada wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The Mittani has an extremely low opinion of pubbies -- and yet now he wants your vote! This is some pretty libelous, sensationalist ****. Wow. Really? The Mittani has been very forthright with respect to his opinions about "pubbies". A casual EVE-Search is all you need to do. Quote:But nope, since he doesn't suck every **** and kiss every pubbie ass, he's a bad candidate. I see. Did I say that? Not at all. The Mittani is a hard-working member of the CSM, and deserves to be re-elected. All I said was that he doesn't need non-goon votes to get re-elected, and doesn't care much for the opinions of non-goons, so there was no reason why they should vote for him -- their vote could be better spent elsewhere. Quote:As long as there is hot blonde icelandic poon to chase, i'm sure that mittens will continue to deliver a strong performance I hate to break it to you, but Mrs. Mittens makes him put his manhood in a blind trust before leaving for Iceland. Which would you prefer, someone who openly states his opinions, even if they might be unpopular (or cost him votes), or someone who hides behind alts and surrogates? Surely not the latter. Trebor,
What is your opinion on the fact that The Mittani is best friends with many on the CCP development team? Do you think that it is a little odd that the current head of CCP security is the former CEO of goonfleet? What will you do to investigate the ties that The Mittani has to CCP outside of the game that may have an undue influence on the in game world? I think that there should be an investigation in to how many "goons" get checks cut by CCP. Will you be the man to do this? If you will you will get my vote even though you are an awful pubby. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1841
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 01:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:What is your opinion on the fact that The Mittani is best friends with many on the CCP development team? Do you think that it is a little odd that the current head of CCP security is the former CEO of goonfleet? What will you do to investigate the ties that The Mittani has to CCP outside of the game that may have an undue influence on the in game world? I think that there should be an investigation in to how many "goons" get checks cut by CCP. Will you be the man to do this? There are many people on the CSM who are friends with devs. Rumor has it that one of the current members of the CSM is actually a former dev.
If you have evidence that a CCP dev (or a member of the CSM) is behaving improperly, there are established channels to address this. I would strongly urge you to use them.
Quote:If you will you will get my vote even though you are an awful pubby. I doubt I'll get your vote, but I did appreciate the bump! Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
389
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 02:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:csm 4 brought real influence to the csm, Hells yeah we did. www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting #VoteAlek for CSM7-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574&find=unread |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
183
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 02:21:00 -
[96] - Quote
lol npc duder calling Trebor a pubbie wis: a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.
|
Varr Dorn
Blue Flame Ore Excavations
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 02:54:00 -
[97] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Red Templar wrote:There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. This is demonstrably incorrect. For example, every vote The Mittani gets in excess of the number needed for him to become chairman (his stated goal) is a wasted vote; it could have been used to elect other candidates with similar views. In the last election, The Mittani received 1552 overvotes. These would have been enough to put another candidate onto the CSM. Ntrails pointed this out while I was composing this reply; great minds think alike. Similarly, about 30% of the votes were cast for candidates who did not get elected. If those had been transferred in some way, the council would have been more representative of the wishes of the voters. This is not demonstrably incorrect. It simply depends on your point of view. My point of view dictates that my vote demonstrates my opinion. If I want to demonstrate, for instance, support for the Mittani's views, I vote for the Mittani. It won't make him any more powerful in the CSM (it all depends on how they work, as you said), but it does demonstrate to CCP where my priorities are. For the record, I am an 'independent'/undecided right now.
Quote:Quote:Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. The fact that such a strategy amplifies the voting power of organized blocs should be obvious to everyone. The sad fact of the matter is that the current voting system forces people to vote tactically. I would also point out that I am on record as being in favor of a system that does not require tactical voting -- that permits people to vote for who they believe in. This is despite the fact that it may well reduce my vote total, since under such a system, I would not be the beneficiary of tactical votes. It does not amplify the voting power of organized blocs. According to you, the organized bloc candidates are fairly certain to be elected. So the vote changes nothing of the results, except expressing one's opinion. As you said, it doesn't matter if they are Seat 1 or Seat 7. In fact, if we were to take your suggestion of voting for a similarly minded candidate rather than a favored contender, we are simply doubling the voting blocs power. I.E. If someone decides they don't want to waste a Vote on Mittens, but they like his views. So every extra vote goes to a candidate with similar views. How is the CSM now more representative of the playerbase? Now we just have Mittens +clone...
Also, as far as 'not having a chance at winning' or however you phrased it... Everyone that is up for election has a chance at winning. If someone decides not to vote for a 'long shot' based on that..of course they won't be elected! they didn't get any votes! If, however, you vote based on your personal beliefs/opinions...your candidate may not win, but your views have been made known to the community (and more importantly to CCP). And if you're lucky, you might get a lot of others voting with you because they agree (even if they were not vocal about agreeing with it, or the opinion is not popular)
Vote as you please.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 09:43:00 -
[98] - Quote
Red Templar wrote:It would be a nice guide if it was void of personal agenda leaking from every paragraph.You are a true politician Trebor. And i dont mean it in a nice way.
And i strongly disagree that votes for popular candidates that have bloc support are wasted votes. There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. And certainly not voting for their second/third person on the like list, just because they think that their primary candidate has enough votes already. Thats bullshit that can have a very big cost and harsh consequences.
Cheers.
Tactical voting...look it up |
Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 10:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Red Templar wrote:It would be a nice guide if it was void of personal agenda leaking from every paragraph.You are a true politician Trebor. And i dont mean it in a nice way.
And i strongly disagree that votes for popular candidates that have bloc support are wasted votes. There is no such thing as wasted votes. Not in RL, not in EVE. Players should vote for who they like and who they believe in, nothing else. And certainly not voting for their second/third person on the like list, just because they think that their primary candidate has enough votes already. Thats bullshit that can have a very big cost and harsh consequences.
Cheers. Tactical voting...look it up
He's a member of Goonswarm, if he hasn't finished basic training he may not have advanced past the Sesame street videos as yet.
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
748
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 11:38:00 -
[100] - Quote
Takezo Kensei wrote:Wait... you're running yourself and still call this piece `The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections`? Hahaha. No conficts there right? Nope. Like a boss. You didn't even insert yourself in your `Proven Performers` list. Neh. Grammar; the difference between helping uncle Jack off the horse, and employing lots of lotion to pleasure the horse.
You're the guy who ended up with lots of horse sperm on you, when all you got asked was to help your uncle get down. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1851
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 19:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Varr Dorn wrote:This is not demonstrably incorrect. It simply depends on your point of view. My point of view dictates that my vote demonstrates my opinion. If I want to demonstrate, for instance, support for the Mittani's views, I vote for the Mittani. It won't make him any more powerful in the CSM (it all depends on how they work, as you said), but it does demonstrate to CCP where my priorities are. For the record, I am an 'independent'/undecided right now.
Ah, but if you knew that Alex was going to be elected, then you could vote for someone else that you think should be on the CSM, and you would effectively be getting two for the price of one.
The beauty of vote-reallocation systems is that they allow your vote to indicate not just your *first* preference, but also your preference rankings.
Quote:It does not amplify the voting power of organized blocs. According to you, the organized bloc candidates are fairly certain to be elected. So the vote changes nothing of the results, except expressing one's opinion. This is not correct, for the reason stated above. You may wish to read the Wikipedia article on Voting Systems for a more in-depth discussion of the topic.
Quote:If someone decides they don't want to waste a Vote on Mittens, but they like his views. So every extra vote goes to a candidate with similar views. How is the CSM now more representative of the playerbase? Now we just have Mittens +clone... If this potential outcome concerns you, then you would be in favor of a system that only transfers undervotes, but not overvotes.
People can -- and should -- argue passionately about exactly what voting system is best. But mathematically, it can be shown that there are systems that are far better than the current one in producing results that represent the views of the voting community.
I am not advocating for a perfect voting system, because there isn't one. I'm just arguing in favor of a *better* voting system, of which there are many. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1851
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 14:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:But you have to admire the skill of a guy who can guide the minds of the uninformed in a manner that at first glance appears to be impartial. My intent was not to "appear" impartial. My intent was to get people to think about issues related to the election process.
I probably benefit from the current system, because of name recognition and the incumbency effect. But unlike some, I am not a natural politician, and I would prefer a system that put more emphasis on the qualifications of the individual candidates and the quality of their arguments, because I believe that would result in a more effective CSM.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
748
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 15:58:00 -
[103] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Snowflake Tem wrote:But you have to admire the skill of a guy who can guide the minds of the uninformed in a manner that at first glance appears to be impartial. My intent was not to "appear" impartial. My intent was to get people to think about issues related to the election process. I probably benefit from the current system, because of name recognition and the incumbency effect. But unlike some, I am not a natural politician, and I would prefer a system that put more emphasis on the qualifications of the individual candidates and the quality of their arguments, because I believe that would result in a more effective CSM. You should be giving them a lecture in grammar, not this half-way apologist vote-mongering stance.
They ****** up their English grammar reading skills and you should not make any excuses at all on their behalf. They are jacking off the horse while all you wanted was to get Jack off the horse. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1851
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 00:03:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:You should be giving them a lecture in grammar, not this half-way apologist vote-mongering stance. I find it more effective to overlook any minor technical deficiencies in posts, but rather focus on those parts of them that will advance the discussion.
If they are serious, they will appreciate it, and if they are trolls, it will annoy them. So it's win-win.
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
62
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 01:06:00 -
[105] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote: AFK mining isn't really that bad, but does still detract from the entire idea of multiplayer at all. And the fact that it can be done AFK while almost all other activities can't be done AFK is an inbalance and an additional reason it should be changed to help stop the ease with which these programs can be written for botting.
AFK cloaking comes to mind there. Howmuch do those participate of the entire idea of multiplayer?
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1854
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 10:56:00 -
[106] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: AFK mining isn't really that bad, but does still detract from the entire idea of multiplayer at all. And the fact that it can be done AFK while almost all other activities can't be done AFK is an inbalance and an additional reason it should be changed to help stop the ease with which these programs can be written for botting.
AFK cloaking comes to mind there. Howmuch do those participate of the entire idea of multiplayer? I think you posted this in the wrong thread. But thanks for the bump! Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:14:00 -
[107] - Quote
I really wondered about Issler Dainzes thread myself. I like some of her ideas, but the whole thing kinda reminds me of a bad voting scam. To much blah and goons all over the topic.
So who is this Issler Dainze, does she mean business or is it really just a troll? (and wtf is up with CCP, if they allow such a thing in CSM elections) |
Salmax Vrall
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 12:18:00 -
[108] - Quote
Trebor, thanks for this 'independent' guide.
Add it to blogs, forums and podcasts and I reckon there's enough info to make a call on.
You got one of my votes dude.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Nothin to see here, jog on.
|
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 12:30:00 -
[109] - Quote
Delici Feelgood wrote:He's a member of Goonswarm, if he hasn't finished basic training he may not have advanced past the Sesame street videos as yet. And you are a member of npc corp. So either you are a coward to not post with your main. Or you are just worthless as human being and no one wants you.
Either way. Congratulations. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 13:25:00 -
[110] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Rakshasa Taisab wrote:You should be giving them a lecture in grammar, not this half-way apologist vote-mongering stance. I find it more effective to overlook any minor technical deficiencies in posts, but rather focus on those parts of them that will advance the discussion. If they are serious, they will appreciate it, and if they are trolls, it will annoy them. So it's win-win.
You should know that it is appreciated. Not everyone cares to, or has time for, appeasing the self-appointed guardians of the English language with appropriate punctuation.
I can't find a thread discussing the merits of different voting models. Does it exist?
|
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
749
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 14:08:00 -
[111] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:You should know that it is appreciated. Not everyone cares to, or has time for, appeasing the self-appointed guardians of the English language with appropriate punctuation. Sometimes the the appropriate punctuation completely changes the meaning of a sentence.
Like; "The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections" vs. "The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections" 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Qin Shi Huang
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 14:26:00 -
[112] - Quote
+1 This is excellent. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
294
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 14:38:00 -
[113] - Quote
I had almost bought on it until i read the attack on Issler Daize.
Honestly her forum campaign has been easily improveable and she's quite hopeless to build enough support from the miner crowd in the short time left, but provided she's the only CSM runner to take WiS mostly seriously, that's where my vote will end up. if i was interested to "winning" i would go for Hans, but, whatever, passing April this game will no longer concern me...
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.
EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...-á |
Jalmari Huitsikko
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
52
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 14:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
As a long time xxpizzaxx member Trebor (or his alt) is xxpizzaxx official CSM canditate.
Everyone should vote him. He's cool guy.
Vote Trebor Vote PIZZA. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 15:18:00 -
[115] - Quote
There is no such thing as objectivity. The pretense of objectivity is the cloak that the very worst types of intellectual dishonesty and hidden agendas shroud themselves in, especially on these forums. Trebor, as a CSM candidate, is a known quantity in terms of his biases, which are available to the public in the form of his candidacy thread and his past actions as a CSM member. As such, his biases are easy to account for, and I would think that anyone would prefer them to the unknowable biases of someone claiming not to have taken a position in this election, with no visible corp affiliation, or from an NPC corp.
|
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 17:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:Snowflake Tem wrote:You should know that it is appreciated. Not everyone cares to, or has time for, appeasing the self-appointed guardians of the English language with appropriate punctuation. Sometimes the the appropriate punctuation completely changes the meaning of a sentence. Like; "The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections" vs. "The Independent Voter's Guide to the CSM 7 Elections"
In that case I think you meant emphasis, which I agree is important, but can also be forgiven. Period.
The Order of Symbolic Measures The Order of Symbolic Measures The Order of Symbolic Measures The Order of Symbolic Measures |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 17:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I had almost bought on it until i read the attack on Issler Daize.
Honestly her forum campaign has been easily improveable and she's quite hopeless to build enough support from the miner crowd in the short time left, but provided she's the only CSM runner to take WiS mostly seriously, that's where my vote will end up. if i was interested to "winning" i would go for Hans, but, whatever, passing April this game will no longer concern me...
I also think Hans has the strongest support outside of the CSM6 runners. WiS will remain on back-burn until the mit-master gets round to giving his blessing so there really is no point putting your vote in support of it. Now, if Trebor changed his stance on the issue that would be a game changer. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1342
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 18:45:00 -
[118] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I had almost bought on it until i read the attack on Issler Daize.
Honestly her forum campaign has been easily improveable and she's quite hopeless to build enough support from the miner crowd in the short time left, but provided she's the only CSM runner to take WiS mostly seriously, that's where my vote will end up. if i was interested to "winning" i would go for Hans, but, whatever, passing April this game will no longer concern me...
I also think Hans has the strongest support outside of the CSM6 runners. WiS will remain on back-burn until the mit-master gets round to giving his blessing so there really is no point putting your vote in support of it. Now, if Trebor changed his stance on the issue that would be a game changer.
At this point,CCP has already decided what they are going to be doing for the immediate future. No amount of noise about Inarna is going to change that after the events is last summer. They need a solid plan, they need gameplay and they need to do it right. Until the small team they have working those issues resolves them, CCP isn't even going to begin considering the reallocation of resources. Keeping the conversation going about Incarna is fine, but the reason you do not see people like myself or Trebor spending time trying to make it a campaign issue is that based upon everything we know and cCP has said, our efforts are better spent promoting dialogue on more near term issues. Don't shoot the messenger. :) Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Swesal
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 19:36:00 -
[119] - Quote
Can't help but think there is somekinda oldboys club attitude here, you have most the CSM's all patting eachother on the backs saying what a great jobs that some of them did, i'v even heard some trying to take credit for crucible's success, imply that it was CSM's that showed CCP the light...... and not to take away from the actual work you all did do, but it was the the riots, and unsubs that showed CCP the light not the CSM, CSM passed along the crowdsource info, and helped in the process no question, but it was the player that forced the change. Crucible would have never been released had such events never happened.
I kinda went off there, the real reason i'm posting is to ask, what in your opinion qualifies someone as a proven performer?
I would think it would be something like they have been on CSM in the past, and have performed well, but this clearly isn't the case. So if you could shad some light on what looks like oldboys club picks of Hans and your take on "proven performers" as the only votes not wasted that would be great, thanks. |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 19:59:00 -
[120] - Quote
Seleene wrote: At this point,CCP has already decided what they are going to be doing for the immediate future. No amount of noise about Inarna is going to change that after the events is last summer. They need a solid plan, they need gameplay and they need to do it right. Until the small team they have working those issues resolves them, CCP isn't even going to begin considering the reallocation of resources. Keeping the conversation going about Incarna is fine, but the reason you do not see people like myself or Trebor spending time trying to make it a campaign issue is that based upon everything we know and cCP has said, our efforts are better spent promoting dialogue on more near term issues. Don't shoot the messenger. :)
I'm already resigned to that fact that banging on the incana drum in pointless. but you must agree that in speaking as one voice CSM6 has left voters with very little to choose between the previously elected candidates. More of the same isn't as an appealing a message as you guys seem to think it is. But there will always be a special place in my heart for you Seleene, so no head shots today. |
|
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1045
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 20:22:00 -
[121] - Quote
Azure Moonlight wrote:I really wondered about Issler Dainzes thread myself. I like some of her ideas, but the whole thing kinda reminds me of a bad voting scam. To much blah and goons all over the topic.
So who is this Issler Dainze, does she mean business or is it really just a troll? (and wtf is up with CCP, if they allow such a thing in CSM elections)
I am definitely not a troll. I've been playing Eve for 8 years and have been in the CSM twice already.
As for the goons, hard to say how I attract so much attention from them. I suspect the goons have been told to specifically troll and disrupt certain candidates.
But feel free to catch me in game or contact me directly. I am very serious about my efforts to be elected to the CSM 7 to help encourage CCP to give the miners of Eve some long overdue attention.
Issler |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
252
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 20:32:00 -
[122] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: AFK mining isn't really that bad, but does still detract from the entire idea of multiplayer at all. And the fact that it can be done AFK while almost all other activities can't be done AFK is an inbalance and an additional reason it should be changed to help stop the ease with which these programs can be written for botting.
AFK cloaking comes to mind there. Howmuch do those participate of the entire idea of multiplayer?
Ohaidere, fail bubble-camper!
I are kyute cloakyfag-kitten!
U no see'z me!!
Those participate in "multiplayer" quite well: It's called "psychological warfare."
Regards,
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Ninja-ratting Cloakyfag xoxoxoxoxoxo
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
252
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 20:40:00 -
[123] - Quote
zulrock wrote:This thread Is i quote from the incredible Master Hu "Full of Win"
thank you
"Heeeey...You've got ME jammed, Hu!" (DNSBlack)...
(Sorry, I just had to) In irae, veritas. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
223
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:03:00 -
[124] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Killer Gandry wrote: AFK cloaking comes to mind there. Howmuch do those participate of the entire idea of multiplayer?
Ohaidere, fail bubble-camper! I are kyute cloakyfag-kitten! Cloaky-cloaky: U no see'z me!! Fake-edit: Those participate in "multiplayer" quite well: It's called "psychological warfare." Regards, Your Friendly Neighbourhood Ninja-ratting in Syndicate Cloakyfag xoxoxoxoxoxo
As much as I think this person is a terrible poster (and probably a furry) and this is a terrible post (so very terrible), he is absolutely right about AFK cloaking. As long as local works the way it does, AFK cloaking should be part of the game. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
294
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:06:00 -
[125] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Snowflake Tem wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I had almost bought on it until i read the attack on Issler Daize.
Honestly her forum campaign has been easily improveable and she's quite hopeless to build enough support from the miner crowd in the short time left, but provided she's the only CSM runner to take WiS mostly seriously, that's where my vote will end up. if i was interested to "winning" i would go for Hans, but, whatever, passing April this game will no longer concern me...
I also think Hans has the strongest support outside of the CSM6 runners. WiS will remain on back-burn until the mit-master gets round to giving his blessing so there really is no point putting your vote in support of it. Now, if Trebor changed his stance on the issue that would be a game changer. At this point,CCP has already decided what they are going to be doing for the immediate future. No amount of noise about Inarna is going to change that after the events is last summer. They need a solid plan, they need gameplay and they need to do it right. Until the small team they have working those issues resolves them, CCP isn't even going to begin considering the reallocation of resources. Keeping the conversation going about Incarna is fine, but the reason you do not see people like myself or Trebor spending time trying to make it a campaign issue is that based upon everything we know and cCP has said, our efforts are better spent promoting dialogue on more near term issues. Don't shoot the messenger. :)
Your "near term" issues made me leave the game out of lack of interesting gameplay. I wouldn't even be here if i hadn't been stupid enough to pay for 6 months on this alt account last november.
CCP and the CSM are throwing all their effort on stuff that completely failed to grab my interest for 3 years. So i am not going to pay for developing it, and i am not going to vote for people who applaud CCP's one-side-ness. This "sandbox" is ourrageously lacking sand in case you are a politically incorrect player with a life, limited time and no interest in griefing or being griefed.
BTW, I will vote Issler because of mining too. I felt utterly stupid when my "power of 2" alt got to earn the whopping amount of 5 filthy million per hour after investing months and above 350 million ISK on her. That was second only to the bloody 6 month subscription plan... EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.
EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...-á |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
252
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:33:00 -
[126] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Killer Gandry wrote: AFK cloaking comes to mind there. Howmuch do those participate of the entire idea of multiplayer?
Ohaidere, fail bubble-camper! I are kyute cloakyfag-kitten! Cloaky-cloaky: U no see'z me!! Fake-edit: Those participate in "multiplayer" quite well: It's called "psychological warfare." Regards, Your Friendly Neighbourhood Ninja-ratting in Syndicate Cloakyfag xoxoxoxoxoxo As much as I think this person is a terrible poster (and probably a furry) and this is a terrible post (so very terrible), he is absolutely right about AFK cloaking. As long as local works the way it does, AFK cloaking should be part of the game.
You "think:"
There is your mistake.
Cheers,
Pod-Pilot Cloakyfag
In irae, veritas. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:As for the goons, hard to say how I attract so much attention from them. I suspect the goons have been told to specifically troll and disrupt certain candidates.
Yeah, that's what it is. Nothing to do with you identifying yourself as a carebear candidate and openly supporting WiS/ambulation despite the last year's game history. It's all an organized conspiracy! |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote: As much as I think this person is a terrible poster (and probably a furry) and this is a terrible post (so very terrible), he is absolutely right about AFK cloaking. As long as local works the way it does, AFK cloaking should be part of the game.
You "think:" There is your mistake. Cheers, Pod-Pilot Cloakyfag E: You, "think?" Bad idea, bru....Baaaaaad idea
You're absolutely right. Think was the wrong word. I know what a terrible poster you are.
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1864
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:50:00 -
[129] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:I can't find a thread discussing the merits of different voting models. Does it exist? Not to my knowledge, at least recently. But I do favor having a big public discussion of the pros and cons of different voting methods.
You may find this Wikipedia article that compares voting systems of interest, though it's a wee bit technical.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:If i was interested to "winning" i would go for Hans, but, whatever, passing April this game will no longer concern me... As I've said before, one reason I posted the original thread was to point out that it's a bad thing that you have to choose between voting for who you want, and voting for someone you think can get elected.
I face that decision all the time in US elections, and it sucks.
Snowflake Tem wrote:Now, if Trebor changed his stance on the issue {of Incarna} that would be a game changer. I have never been opposed to the idea of Incarna. I just think that given CCP's current situation, allocating more than a small fraction of those resources to Incarna is not a good use of their resources.
If EVE had twice as many subscribers, then perhaps they would be able to justify investing in a long-term effort to properly implement Incarna -- with good gameplay. But even in that situation, there needs to be a compelling argument made that this will attract new subscribers that would not be interested in a purely FiS game.
Proponents of Incarna must demonstrate that it will generate a reasonable Return on Investment. "Because it'll be awesome" is not a good business argument.
Furthermore, and to put it very bluntly, there are tons of avatar-based games out there -- lots of competition. But there are no other FiS PVP games out there that significantly compete with EVE, which gives it a protected market niche. Thus a major counter-argument to Incarna is that investment in FiS to add barriers to entry to dissuade potential competitors will generate a much better ROI, because having
Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
295
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 22:45:00 -
[130] - Quote
Trebor... you know that CCP is curently developing not one, but TWO avatar based games, do you?
As i already stated some weeks ago, EVE has grown as big as it can grow being such a freaky disthopy as it is. It already is there, nullsec will not draw in any more people to the game, face it. So it better starts appealing to people who currently play the game and leave after being faced to the only endgame it provides.
You say it: it's niche. And the niche is over. When CCP's average player is 30+, they are really wrong treating this customers as if they could revolve their whole lives around EVE.
Get a clue:
Online gaming for grown ups
Besieging crap for hours is NOT an option. Being forced to grind asteroids for hours is NOT an option. And losing your hard earned sutff to a bunch of teenagers and jobless punks is NOT an option.
All in all, EVE must be the less fun game i ever played. And I didn't played it for being fun, actually, but because of goals and being able to achieve them. But once it burns out... it burns out. Nullsec is crap and everything else is in varied degrees of being broken, abandoned or non-existant.
Time to vote to stay the course... Doh!
Maybe not, huh? EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.
EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...-á |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 22:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
When CCP's average player is 30+
months? |
Chitsa Jason
High Intellion Exhale.
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 00:20:00 -
[132] - Quote
Nice post :)
Two step gets my votez! |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1866
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 01:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Swesal wrote:...but it was the the riots, and unsubs that showed CCP the light not the CSM, CSM passed along the crowdsource info, and helped in the process no question, but it was the player that forced the change. Sure, community outrage was a big part of why CCP changed course. But do you happen to remember who it was that started doing the crowdsourcing, and continued to do it, even last summer when many outspoken members of CSM (including the chairman) were openly mocking it as a waste of time, because "crowdsourcing is dumb".
His name has slipped my mind, perhaps you can remind me...
Quote:I kinda went off there, the real reason i'm posting is to ask, what in your opinion qualifies someone as a proven performer? Someone with a consistent record of accessibility, accountability, good judgment and hard work. Someone who's clearly in it for the good of the community, not for the ego-massage. Someone you can trust.
And in response to your question about Hans, while he doesn't have a track record on CSM, he got involved in an issue last year and showed (in my opinion) the required qualities for a potentially good CSM. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
185
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 02:01:00 -
[134] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor... you know that CCP is curently developing not one, but TWO avatar based games, do you? As i already stated some weeks ago, EVE has grown as big as it can grow being such a freaky disthopy as it is. It already is there, nullsec will not draw in any more people to the game, face it. So it better starts appealing to people who currently play the game and leave after being faced to the only endgame it provides. You say it: it's niche. And the niche is over. When CCP's average player is 30+, they are really wrong treating this customers as if they could revolve their whole lives around EVE. Get a clue: Online gaming for grown upsBesieging crap for hours is NOT an option. Being forced to grind asteroids for hours is NOT an option. And losing your hard earned sutff to a bunch of teenagers and jobless punks is NOT an option. All in all, EVE must be the less fun game i ever played. And I didn't played it for being fun, actually, but because of goals and being able to achieve them. But once it burns out... it burns out. Nullsec is crap and everything else is in varied degrees of being broken, abandoned or non-existant. Time to vote to stay the course... Doh! Maybe not, huh?
hey trebor the only way to save eve online is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekyXMQ7U8Y
wis: a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 02:05:00 -
[135] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Besieging crap for hours is NOT an option. Being forced to grind asteroids for hours is NOT an option. And losing your hard earned sutff to a bunch of teenagers and jobless punks is NOT an option.
Besides the fact that you absolutely don't have to do either of the first two options at all, your opposition to the third idea just makes me realize the game isn't for you. Losing all of your stuff to anyone (jobless/teenage or otherwise) is not only an option for Eve, it's an option that is outright NECESSARY for very large parts of the playerbase. Fighting against this is akin to going onto a WoW forum and saying the fantasy setting is "NOT an option".
Don't take it personally or anything - Eve is a niche game, and it well and truly isn't for everyone. However, that niche basically revolves around the fact that at ANY point in the game, docked or otherwise, your stuff is at some degree of risk. If that is unacceptable or incomprehensible for you, there's not much left to say aside from "try another MMO". |
Hanoch Wheel
Free Wheeling Industries
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 02:32:00 -
[136] - Quote
Caldari Mindcrash is brutal. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2554
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 05:01:00 -
[137] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor... you know that CCP is curently developing not one, but TWO avatar based games, do you? As i already stated some weeks ago, EVE has grown as big as it can grow being such a freaky disthopy as it is. It already is there, nullsec will not draw in any more people to the game, face it. So it better starts appealing to people who currently play the game and leave after being faced to the only endgame it provides. You say it: it's niche. And the niche is over. When CCP's average player is 30+, they are really wrong treating this customers as if they could revolve their whole lives around EVE. Get a clue: Online gaming for grown upsBesieging crap for hours is NOT an option. Being forced to grind asteroids for hours is NOT an option. And losing your hard earned sutff to a bunch of teenagers and jobless punks is NOT an option. All in all, EVE must be the less fun game i ever played. And I didn't played it for being fun, actually, but because of goals and being able to achieve them. But once it burns out... it burns out. Nullsec is crap and everything else is in varied degrees of being broken, abandoned or non-existant. Time to vote to stay the course... Doh! Maybe not, huh? don't let the door hit your ass on the way out
just like you didn't when you got booted out of your space lawl |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2554
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 05:04:00 -
[138] - Quote
I can buy and sell you both ingame and irl poor man |
Peter Powers
FinFleet Raiden.
66
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 10:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
proven performer: elise randolph. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 12:13:00 -
[140] - Quote
I can buy and sell you both ingame and irl poor man
just had our parental allowance increased? |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
297
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 14:35:00 -
[141] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]Besieging crap for hours is NOT an option. Being forced to grind asteroids for hours is NOT an option. And losing your hard earned sutff to a bunch of teenagers and jobless punks is NOT an option.[/quote
Besides the fact that you absolutely don't have to do either of the first two options at all, your opposition to the third idea just makes me realize the game isn't for you. Losing all of your stuff to anyone (jobless/teenage or otherwise) is not only an option for Eve, it's an option that is outright NECESSARY for very large parts of the playerbase. Fighting against this is akin to going onto a WoW forum and saying the fantasy setting is "NOT an option"
Don't take it personally or anything - Eve is a niche game, and it well and truly isn't for everyone. However, that niche basically revolves around the fact that at ANY point in the game, docked or otherwise, your stuff is at some degree of risk. If that is unacceptable or incomprehensible for you, there's not much left to say aside from "try another MMO".
Also, a nitpick perhaps considering you basically hate the game, but Eve is probably one of the friendliest games for a 30+ crowd with jobs/lives/etc due to the combination of AFK skill progression and CCP-sanctioned isk buying. Not having to log in and grind for ANYTHING is an option few other MMO's can offer, if any.
Well, I've been pretty comfy in this game for 3 years and have spent some 800 euros on it, so no, I don't hate EVE. On the contrary, pretty much EVE hates me for playing solo, casual, PvE and hisec, and for hoping that WiS could provide some extra gameplay.
Also is just amazing how a game can give every skilling facility in the world to casual players but don't provide any actual casual-friendly gameplay... amazing and a bit suicidal as EVE player base is not going to grow younger (current average is 34, chronologically at least) and thus people with "casual" needs are being essentially quicked out of the game once they exhaust the limited casual-friendly content.
Geez, i got to lure in 4 noobs and 2 of them left because they didn't have the time to play EVE endgame, so, why worry getting there? EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.
EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...-á |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 15:33:00 -
[142] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, I've been pretty comfy in this game for 3 years and have spent some 800 euros on it, so no, I don't hate EVE. On the contrary, pretty much EVE hates me for playing solo, casual, PvE and hisec, and for hoping that WiS could provide some extra gameplay.
Given your posts in this thread, I think the last way I'd describe you in this game is "comfy". But really, you're playing a MMORPG with non-consentual PVP as one of its main selling points and upset that you can't avoid all PVP and play solo. Expecting content with WiS is also sort of indicative of this game not being for you, since you undocking and doing literally anything is the first step in creating content not only for yourself, but for others who may (a) work with you or (b) hunt you for sport or profit. If you can't deal with (b) then EVE isn't for you, regardless of how many years you've sunk into it trying to show the opposite.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also is just amazing how a game can give every skilling facility in the world to casual players but don't provide any actual casual-friendly gameplay... amazing and a bit suicidal as EVE player base is not going to grow younger (current average is 34, chronologically at least) and thus people with "casual" needs are being essentially quicked out of the game once they exhaust the limited casual-friendly content.
And again, this is indicative of your problematic attitude towards the game. You do everything solo, so no doubt the work required to get anything done is daunting, especially when you run the risk of becoming very dead at the hands of people who most definitely are not playing solo. The solution to this is to stop playing solo, get with a corp, do things in a group. Everything becomes easier that way - mining* less tedious, production and supplying easier, hell, you might even dabble in other types of gameplay you never tried before. Either way, step one is to stop being so insular and find a corp with like minded interests, otherwise you're on the fast track to burnout-and-quit-city.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Geez, i got to lure in 4 noobs and 2 of them left because they didn't have the time to play EVE endgame, so, why worry getting there?
Honestly, given the introduction they got from you and how much of the game your style makes you simply miss out on, I'm more surprised all 4 of them didn't leave. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1873
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:37:00 -
[143] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor... you know that CCP is curently developing not one, but TWO avatar based games, do you? Yes, and we all know what happens when they try and develop THREE, don't we?
Quote:All in all, EVE must be the less fun game i ever played. And I didn't played it for being fun, actually, but because of goals and being able to achieve them. But once it burns out... it burns out. Nullsec is crap and everything else is in varied degrees of being broken, abandoned or non-existant. And yet here you are, still playing after more than a year, when other games have attrition rates that are much higher -- and you're a newbie compared to a lot of players.
Hell, I've been playing 4 years, and I'm a newbie compared to a lot of players.
We all b*tch and moan, and yet here we are, still playing. Because for all it's many imperfections, EVE is the most socially addictive MMO out there by at least an order of magnitude.
The risk that making a major change to the way people interact with EVE -- of pissing in the secret sauce, if you will -- is one that has to be very carefully weighed before taking an irreversible and transformative step.
Much safer, perhaps, to attempt to apply what has been learned (and duplicate the secret sauce) in a new game that is naturally avatar-based. It would have to be a dark world, though, full of cruelty and evil. I dunno, maybe something with Vampires might be worth considering. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
297
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 21:41:00 -
[144] - Quote
[quote=Snow Axe][quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]Well, I've been pretty comfy in this game for 3 years and have spent some 800 euros on it, so no, I don't hate EVE. On the contrary, pretty much EVE hates me for playing solo, casual, PvE and hisec, and for hoping that WiS could provide some extra gameplay.[/quote
Given your posts in this thread, I think the last way I'd describe you in this game is "comfy". But really, you're playing a MMORPG with non-consentual PVP as one of its main selling points and upset that you can't avoid all PVP and play solo. Expecting content with WiS is also sort of indicative of this game not being for you, since you undocking and doing literally anything is the first step in creating content not only for yourself, but for others who may (a) work with you or (b) hunt you for sport or profit. If you can't deal with (b) then EVE isn't for you, regardless of how many years you've sunk into it trying to show the opposite
[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]Also is just amazing how a game can give every skilling facility in the world to casual players but don't provide any actual casual-friendly gameplay... amazing and a bit suicidal as EVE player base is not going to grow younger (current average is 34, chronologically at least) and thus people with "casual" needs are being essentially quicked out of the game once they exhaust the limited casual-friendly content.[/quote
And again, this is indicative of your problematic attitude towards the game. You do everything solo, so no doubt the work required to get anything done is daunting, especially when you run the risk of becoming very dead at the hands of people who most definitely are not playing solo. The solution to this is to stop playing solo, get with a corp, do things in a group. Everything becomes easier that way - mining* less tedious, production and supplying easier, hell, you might even dabble in other types of gameplay you never tried before. Either way, step one is to stop being so insular and find a corp with like minded interests, otherwise you're on the fast track to burnout-and-quit-city
* I know you mentioned mining's huge lack of profitability in your previous post, and it's true though the major fix for that (removing drone alloy drops from Drone Region NPC ships) is already on its way. The fact that this fix took so long to even be recognized was due in large part to CCP's completely wrong focus on Incarna/WiS while the rest of the game burned. You can thank the CSM and the players' revolt for changing that.
[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]Geez, i got to lure in 4 noobs and 2 of them left because they didn't have the time to play EVE endgame, so, why worry getting there?[/quote
Honestly, given the introduction they got from you and how much of the game your style makes you simply miss out on, I'm more surprised all 4 of them didn't leave.[/quote
Well, it's an issue, yes. I've been playing this ""sandbox"" the wrong way for three years. Silly me. It's a childhood habit, I admit. I loved Lego, and yet I barely would build just what was shown on the picture on the box. I used to improvise a lot and mix blocks from different sets to build even bigger, better stuff
But then maybe EVE is better suit to the kind of people who builds jigsaw puzzles... or the ones that design them for others to fit in as mindless pieces.
Every sandbox has got certain rules. EVE is not an exception, but, it woud be easier if CCP plain removed all PvE, all hisec and everyhing not usable to nullsec, and made very clear from the start that this game it's about nullsec or the door.
Put it on top of the box, very clear, that either you build what's on the picture, or you're playing with the wrong Lego... EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.
EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...-á |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2554
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 21:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
legos hurt when i shove them into my wang redesign them please
who are you to tell me i am playing with legos wrong |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
253
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 22:07:00 -
[146] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Johnny Marzetti wrote: As much as I think this person is a terrible poster (and probably a furry) and this is a terrible post (so very terrible), he is absolutely right about AFK cloaking. As long as local works the way it does, AFK cloaking should be part of the game.
You "think:" There is your mistake. Cheers, Pod-Pilot Cloakyfag E: You, "think?" Bad idea, bru....Baaaaaad idea You're absolutely right. Think was the wrong word. I know what a terrible poster you are.
NO, U.
Is that more suited to your ilk, then, mate?
In irae, veritas. |
Sir Marksalot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 22:14:00 -
[147] - Quote
we need a guy who will listen to our cry for legos with rounded edges |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
186
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 06:30:00 -
[148] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, I've been pretty comfy in this game for 3 years and have spent some 800 euros on it, so no, I don't hate EVE. On the contrary, pretty much EVE hates me for playing solo, casual, PvE and hisec, and for hoping that WiS could provide some extra gameplay. Given your posts in this thread, I think the last way I'd describe you in this game is "comfy". But really, you're playing a MMORPG with non-consentual PVP as one of its main selling points and upset that you can't avoid all PVP and play solo. Expecting content with WiS is also sort of indicative of this game not being for you, since you undocking and doing literally anything is the first step in creating content not only for yourself, but for others who may (a) work with you or (b) hunt you for sport or profit. If you can't deal with (b) then EVE isn't for you, regardless of how many years you've sunk into it trying to show the opposite Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also is just amazing how a game can give every skilling facility in the world to casual players but don't provide any actual casual-friendly gameplay... amazing and a bit suicidal as EVE player base is not going to grow younger (current average is 34, chronologically at least) and thus people with "casual" needs are being essentially quicked out of the game once they exhaust the limited casual-friendly content. And again, this is indicative of your problematic attitude towards the game. You do everything solo, so no doubt the work required to get anything done is daunting, especially when you run the risk of becoming very dead at the hands of people who most definitely are not playing solo. The solution to this is to stop playing solo, get with a corp, do things in a group. Everything becomes easier that way - mining* less tedious, production and supplying easier, hell, you might even dabble in other types of gameplay you never tried before. Either way, step one is to stop being so insular and find a corp with like minded interests, otherwise you're on the fast track to burnout-and-quit-city * I know you mentioned mining's huge lack of profitability in your previous post, and it's true though the major fix for that (removing drone alloy drops from Drone Region NPC ships) is already on its way. The fact that this fix took so long to even be recognized was due in large part to CCP's completely wrong focus on Incarna/WiS while the rest of the game burned. You can thank the CSM and the players' revolt for changing that. Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Geez, i got to lure in 4 noobs and 2 of them left because they didn't have the time to play EVE endgame, so, why worry getting there? Honestly, given the introduction they got from you and how much of the game your style makes you simply miss out on, I'm more surprised all 4 of them didn't leave. Well, it's an issue, yes. I've been playing this ""sandbox"" the wrong way for three years. Silly me. It's a childhood habit, I admit. I loved Lego, and yet I barely would build just what was shown on the picture on the box. I used to improvise a lot and mix blocks from different sets to build even bigger, better stuff But then maybe EVE is better suit to the kind of people who builds jigsaw puzzles... or the ones that design them for others to fit in as mindless pieces. Every sandbox has got certain rules. EVE is not an exception, but, it woud be easier if CCP plain removed all PvE, all hisec and everyhing not usable to nullsec, and made very clear from the start that this game it's about nullsec or the door. Put it on top of the box, very clear, that either you build what's on the picture, or you're playing with the wrong Lego...
tell me how /emoting with a bunch of dudes will help you enjoy eve online the game.
wis: a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.
|
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
48
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:12:00 -
[149] - Quote
Thank you T for a well run campaign.
I would like to let you know how and why you won my vote for a second time.
1) Your profession allows you to understand the importance of a background story as a driver for conflict rather than combat for it's own sake.
2) You somehow manage to keep your cool amongst the inarticulate hoards that have flooded the game, conversly you do not have difficulty seperating fantasy from reality.
3) You value balance, have sufficient empathy to speak for the minories that will not be represented and advocate voting reform to include these minorities.
I really think you have your work cut out for you and would like to express my deep appreciation for your selfless efforts.
I wish you all the best. |
Hile Troye
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 20:22:00 -
[150] - Quote
Treb is not only a commited DNSer but he also work hard for all eve players and iam sending this guide back to the top so others can read it and it doesnt get lost. |
|
asidburn Enaka
Alpha Arms and Manufacturing BROTHERHOOD OF DESTRUCTION
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 08:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
i just want to let everyone know about this scammer claming to be giving plex for votes dont be caught falling for this scam vote aganist darius III member of interstellar eXodus {IE-EX} they are scaming people pass the word on to everyone you can and vote aganist these undeserving jerks here is a copy of the chat log as proof of there unworthy actions!!!!!!!!
asidburn Enaka > what do i need to do Darius III > http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=480 go there Darius III > vote for me then paste the message you got after vote cast into this chat asidburn Enaka > your vote has been registered. We thank you for your participation. Darius III > Thanks man Darius III > that concludes our business Darius III > Fly safe asidburn Enaka > and what about the contract asidburn Enaka > i will have my alliance vote aganist you about 250 people asidburn Enaka > and then where will you be asidburn Enaka > send me the contract and i will have them vote for you asidburn Enaka > this is what we call a test of charecture Darius III > Have them vote against me Darius III > Sorry for the ssam Darius III > But I wouldnt sleep at night if I didnt do everything in my power to make syure that Goons dont ruin this CSM asidburn Enaka > your an idiot all your going to do is send more votes to the goons Darius III > not really Darius III > Goons will win chairman nbo matetr what, doesnt matter Darius III > nothing can stop them Darius III > and thats a real shame asidburn Enaka > well you just lost 243 votes asidburn Enaka > got 1 lost 243 Darius III > Didnt have them anyway Darius III > didnt lose anything Darius III > Just please dont make forum post about me, it would ruin my campaign asidburn Enaka > not to mentone att the isk spam bans you r about to get asidburn Enaka > too late asidburn Enaka > and i just copyed this conv asidburn Enaka > so i can post Darius III > You wouldnt dare do it Darius III > You too lazy anyway Darius III > I dont have a thing to worry about asidburn Enaka > haha i play eve 8 hrs a day and im retired all i have is time Darius III > no lazy bones like you would waste their time. LOL so much for your empty threats LOL
rember i dont care who you vote for just dont voter for the |
Anne Tesla
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 14:19:00 -
[152] - Quote
asidburn Enaka wrote:i just want to let everyone know about this scammer claming to be giving plex for votes dont be caught falling for this scam vote aganist darius III member of interstellar eXodus {IE-EX} they are scaming people pass the word on to everyone you can and vote aganist these undeserving jerks here is a copy of the chat log as proof of there unworthy actions!!!!!!!!
LOL. You clearly haven't been playing this game very long. I'll promise to get my alliance to vote against Darius if you give me a 100 million ISK. True story.
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1931
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 02:31:00 -
[153] - Quote
bump The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
None ofthe Above
114
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 02:42:00 -
[154] - Quote
Don't tell Hans, but one of my more independent minded alts actually voted for Trebor.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
PsychoBitch
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
173
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 03:07:00 -
[155] - Quote
Read the complete Platform here: http://www.eve-online-dark-taboo.com/vote/
If you want your vote to count just once in EVE vote for PsychoBitch.
Sick of CCP devs and their hair-brained, half-baked, blue-balled ideas?
Sick of self-important fat puds and frail half-elves on the CSM?
Sick of things in eve that should have been fixed A G E S ago not being fixed and new errors being introduced daily?
Make your one vote count finally, vote for PsychoBitch!
If you are voting for someone who has been in the CSM before - you have wasted your vote on F A I L
Don't be a failure, be a hero. Vote for PsychoBitch now!
Campaign Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnOZAEbk7r0
If you don't drink whiskey - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE If you don't like having sex with women - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE If you don't live life on your own terms - VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE
THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IN LIFE - ANYTHING WRITTEN BELOW IGNORE |
Chunicha
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 03:48:00 -
[156] - Quote
Hey trebor you desperate piece of **** why are you sending me spam mail? |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1933
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 17:11:00 -
[157] - Quote
Chunicha wrote:Hey trebor you desperate piece of **** why are you sending me spam mail? Well, for one things, it gets me bumps in this thread. Thanks! The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 17:29:00 -
[158] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:legos hurt when i shove them into my wang redesign them please
who are you to tell me i am playing with legos wrong
you win forums...nothing can top this.
CHEERS!!
Would you like a kitten? |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1937
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 20:17:00 -
[159] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Don't tell Hans, but one of my more independent minded alts actually voted for Trebor. Ah, so you took the advice in the OP... excellent! The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 22:17:00 -
[160] - Quote
As a newbie it's not easy to choose a candidate to vote for.
Sure everyone's great and has done amazing things on the previous CSM (or will on the next). Some even know how to troll, scam, lawyer, drink, insult, revolt or impersonate, and though I do not contest the admirable nature of such qualities, I can't really verify its truthfulness, it's impact on eve or my benefit from it.
I was going to go somewhere with this, but to make a long story short.
I voted for Trebor.
Because anyone who puts time into sending spam mail to newbies has got to be a good guy. Signature added by Adalun Dey. |
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1945
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 10:55:00 -
[161] - Quote
lol! The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 13:33:00 -
[162] - Quote
Trebor, thanks for mentioning me, i apreciate how u gone through categorising most of the candidates. By labelling ,you however tell readers its not worth voting for a newbie. Ofcourse i disagree, but i can see where u are comming from ;)
Any new candidate has to start somewhere, however, any candicate or current member started his first time as a first election. and even IF i wouldnt make it i dont feel votes are wasted, they are a signal too others that do get elected. (got to stay positive)
Reading your candidate breakdown i can only say: "dear eve players : vote for the CSM Noob! "they are eve's future. last year 13 % of eve population voted CSM . so the other 87 % hold the power too make any CSM change possible. At its best the current CSM holds a portion of that 13 % votes, so a minority in eve.
so again: vote for the newbie too CSM, vote corebloodbrothers, and yes a non bloc candidate;)
check my bio, convoy or mail me, its starts with you voting; )
and trebor, who knows ;) cu laterz ;) |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 10:47:00 -
[163] - Quote
Very good guide a must read |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1949
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 18:13:00 -
[164] - Quote
I just wanted to mention that the reports of my death should not stop you from voting for me.
While I am going to spend a few days dead for electoral reasons, I fully intend to rise from the grave in the near future; I wouldn't let a minor thing like dying get in the way of my obligations to the community. The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1964
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 09:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
blatant bumpitude The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 10:41:00 -
[166] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I just wanted to mention that the reports of my death should not stop you from voting for me. While I am going to spend a few days dead for electoral reasons, I fully intend to rise from the grave in the near future; I wouldn't let a minor thing like dying get in the way of my obligations to the community.
SHAME!!! Spending a few days dead, and its Not Even for Tax Reasons.
May the League of Starship Christian Voters condemn you for trying to pull a "Jesus". Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1965
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 12:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:May the League of Starship Christian Voters condemn you for trying to pull a "Jesus". Thank you for reminding me to rise on the third day.
As for the LoSCV, I lost both their votes when I pushed for the removal of learning skills. The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 12:55:00 -
[168] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Frying Doom wrote:May the League of Starship Christian Voters condemn you for trying to pull a "Jesus". Thank you for reminding me to rise on the third day. As for the LoSCV, I lost both their votes when I pushed for the removal of learning skills. Getting a rise is always a good idea Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1965
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 01:05:00 -
[169] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Getting a rise is always a good idea I am very happy to report that my wife agrees with you. The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Dark Invoker
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 10:47:00 -
[170] - Quote
+1 |
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1972
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Posted - 2012.03.19 16:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
As the election winds down, I'd like to encourage everyone one last time to vote for the candidate of their choice.
In particular if it's me! The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Jet Aeon
Two Smoking Barrels
10
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Posted - 2012.03.19 19:23:00 -
[172] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:As the election winds down, I'd like to encourage everyone one last time to vote for the candidate of their choice. In particular if it's me! A better strategy would be to vote for Two step. Trebor is a certainty and the CSM can't go wrong with Trebor and Two step tag teaming Mittani into a choke hold.
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1972
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Posted - 2012.03.19 22:29:00 -
[173] - Quote
Jet Aeon wrote:In particular if it's me! A better strategy would be to vote for Two step. Trebor is a certainty and the CSM can't go wrong with Trebor and Two step tag teaming Mittani into a choke hold.[/quote] While I appreciate your confidence, I do not share it. I think I need every last vote in order to squeak into the top 7. We'll see on Saturday! The Polls are open! Click here to vote for Trebor *-áMy Election Thread * Voter's Guide |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
352
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Posted - 2012.03.24 16:54:00 -
[174] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:LOL A no-name mercifully placed me in Long Shots list while asking to vote for himself. Dude, wanna accept my bet that I'll score more votes than you? Say, 100 mil. Is that ok for you? I'm perfectly fine with higher bets as well, I'm just not sure wheather you'd risk your money. edit: oh, originally it was a 'comic relief' list. Nice! Hey, I'll bet 500M. Bet accepted.
Hi hello.
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Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
353
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Posted - 2012.03.24 18:41:00 -
[175] - Quote
Just posting to confirm that Fon, despite what you may think of his political beliefs, is in fact a man of honor. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1304
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Posted - 2012.03.25 06:22:00 -
[176] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:NewbiesOne of the classic techniques used by bloc-candidate supporters to get people to waste votes is to engage in a massive trolling attack to generate both a huge thread and sympathy votes. This is probably happening in the campaign thread of Issler Dainze.
Just want to thank all those sympathy votes that got me elected......
Issler |
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