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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.02 00:55:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Tarminic on 02/05/2008 00:55:44
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Big Al ...Oops, that would require CCP to lose those farmer subs...
That's a common misconception. It's highly unlikely that any ISK farming or selling operation ever spends even a dime on subs. Their stock in trade is ISK... as long as they can buy GTCs for ISK, it would run completely counter to their purpose to ever buy a sub with RL money. They are about bringing RL money in, not sending RL money out.
And given that the supply of GTCs is relatively inflexible, it's much more likely that farmers just put upward pressure on GTC prices instead of people purchasing more GTCs from CCP. ---------------- (Forgot to pay my sub, back in a few days! ) Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.05.02 00:56:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: PhantomMajor well if i were you, i'd look through my wallet and locate the name of the GM who removed your ISK, then go over to the crime and punishment forum and place a bounty on the GM for 150 million isk.
if everyone starts doing this, then pretty soon being a GM wont be such a rewarding career in EvE.
oh and if your name happens to be Mhonaverge or Leader Tim, i'd start looking over your shoulder when you undock from now on
Nice try, but it doesn't work like that.
1. The GM's name appears nowhere. The one case we've had and that we've looked at was a transfer out to a nonexistent char and the victim of the theft received no explanation whatsoever. That worsens things because the victim's first impression is that he has been scammed somehow.
2. You can't place bounties on chars that do not have negative sec status.
3. Anyone with a high bounty on them can get a bud to podkill them and share the bounty.
4. You can't use tools or methods provided by the house to "fight the house," because they can change the rules, the tools, etc. Just look into the cases where stupid ppl thought they could tank Concord. CCP increased the dmg done by Concord to 2309834 bazillion points, in effect saying, "Tank this!"
What is really called for is an independent website where ppl can discuss this stuff free of CCP rules and censorship.
And believe me, sooner or later this kind of thing will end up in court, and CCP's EULA and TOS will not count for ****. There are lots of things you can even sign, not merely tacitly agree to by using something, that courts have and will continue to nullify, saying, "Nah, doesn't count."
Wont happend. Why? Because its CCP property! They are only giving you access to it!
Yes. This have been discussed many times. Heck, some years ago I read an article against someone in the US trying to take the case to court, because he got banned for gold sales. It got dismissed by the judge! Why? Because..
A.) The account did not belong to him! The account was the access door to someone elses home, and he had clearly violated the rules of its owner. So his access was revoked as stated by the owners rules!
B.) The copyright laws tells us that software is considered the property of the company who made it. This company ONLY gives ACCESS to the product to anyone as long they abides by the rules set by its owner. That includes among many things paying a monthly fee if this is required. It also includes rules about how to behave. WHat you can do with the game and what you can not do with and within the game.
Its simple as this: you abide by the rules CCP set to grant you access to their product. They wont let you use it unless you abide by the rules. If you break the rules, they wont let you near their product any more. You accept that when you hit enter on TOS and EULA. And the TOS and EULA are based on national and international laws and copyright rules and regulations. Take it or leave it. Its CCP product.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.02 01:10:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Cruthensis Let me guess... four covetors and an itty 5?
Sounds more like a farmer to me.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. It used to be three Covetors and an Iteron V but that was a long time ago. Now it's three Hulks and an Iteron V. Lots of legitimate players mine that way, too. But real ISK farmers rarely speak English and would never take the time to be posting here. Triple fail for you.
Hey, I know you. Meet you when you were chasing some ISK farmers from system to system. Sorry to see you taking such a knee-jerk, prejudicial position on this.
To all you other GM fanbois, it's too bad there's no effective way of excluding you from juries... you seem to equate accusation with guilt, which is a sign of psychosis and not at all good for innocent people falsely accused. Which. Actually. Happens. In. Real. Life. Too.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.05.02 01:31:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Zanpt [...stuff..]
To all you other GM fanbois, it's too bad there's no effective way of excluding you from juries... you seem to equate accusation with guilt, which is a sign of psychosis and not at all good for innocent people falsely accused. Which. Actually. Happens. In. Real. Life. Too.
We the "GM fanbois" dont equate accusation with guilt.
1. I gave the OP for example many times to prove him selves. He failed in doing so.
2. As you can see, I was unsure about his position to start with. No. I dont equal accusation with guilt.
3. I gave him another chance to prove his innocence!
4. He failed doing so!
5. Then CCP come in, and we get the picture he had denied us! CCP have given them both chances to prove themselves. In both situations: they failed!
6. Conclution: CCP brings evidence. The people claiming innocence have the chances to defend themselves for the GM, but have kept quiet in petitions, but bringing it here.
There are rules. Honestly, I cant see the problems with following these. Why are you?
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Max Nero
Xeno Tech Corp United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.05.02 01:46:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Cruthensis Let me guess... four covetors and an itty 5?
Sounds more like a farmer to me.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. It used to be three Covetors and an Iteron V but that was a long time ago. Now it's three Hulks and an Iteron V. Lots of legitimate players mine that way, too. But real ISK farmers rarely speak English and would never take the time to be posting here. Triple fail for you.
Hey, I know you. Meet you when you were chasing some ISK farmers from system to system. Sorry to see you taking such a knee-jerk, prejudicial position on this.
To all you other GM fanbois, it's too bad there's no effective way of excluding you from juries... you seem to equate accusation with guilt, which is a sign of psychosis and not at all good for innocent people falsely accused. Which. Actually. Happens. In. Real. Life. Too.
Fail troll is fail. |
Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.02 02:13:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Zanpt And believe me, sooner or later this kind of thing will end up in court, and CCP's EULA and TOS will not count for ****...
Wont happend. Why? Because its CCP property! They are only giving you access to it!
Sorry, no. As players invest greater amounts of time and money they begin to acquire rights that will sooner or later begin to be recognized by the courts. At that point it won't matter what the EULA says, the courts will begin to eviscerate the EULA. That's just the way it is, moreso in some countries and less so in others. The sovereign power of the state trumps all in the end.
As I tried to allude to but you apparently didn't get, there are contracts you can sign now, today, that have clauses that cannot be enforced. Employee non-compete clauses are unenforceable in most States in the U.S. because courts have held that no one can be prohibited from earning a living. It's also widely understood that in the U.S. system you can't sign away certain rights. You can sign, but it's unenforceable. |
WCPistolPete
Gallente MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.05.02 04:54:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Zanpt
Sorry, no. As players invest greater amounts of time and money they begin to acquire rights that will sooner or later begin to be recognized by the courts. At that point it won't matter what the EULA says, the courts will begin to eviscerate the EULA. That's just the way it is, moreso in some countries and less so in others. The sovereign power of the state trumps all in the end..
Wrong. It's a game, you pay to play and agree to abide by the rules. Break the rules and CCP can stop you from playing. CCP can cancel your account at that point per the EULA.
All of these "mystery transactions" brought up by the trolls can be tracked not only by database transactions but by IP address and more. It's not hard to determine alias accounts when you have the full database sitting right in front of you.
Originally by: Zanpt
As I tried to allude to but you apparently didn't get, there are contracts you can sign now, today, that have clauses that cannot be enforced. Employee non-compete clauses are unenforceable in most States in the U.S. because courts have held that no one can be prohibited from earning a living. It's also widely understood that in the U.S. system you can't sign away certain rights. You can sign, but it's unenforceable.
Not applicable here. This is a game that you pay to play. Not playing does not deny you the ability to earn a living unless you are a farmer/RMT who is breaking the rules of the game and subject to removal. No judge is going to take the cheater's stance.
Good job CCP, now go clean out Osmon VII, Ice Belt 1. There are 15 accounts ice mining there 23/7 with one Occator keeping better time than the atomic clock.
Aydoteaux, Carrirgnotin, Oichiya, Aramachi, Isenairos, Motsu, Jxxx (I'd type the name but it would lag the fourms ) are some other systems in dire need of cleansing.
To the farmers: YARR!!! |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.02 05:13:00 -
[248]
I can see CCP is really worried about getting sued this week. Why do folks bring up these stupid legal augrement all the time. I have a better idea instead of putting forth your legal theory in a forum thread why not just go ahead and sue them and see how it goes.
My guess it would be a waste of time and money, but you can easly prove that wrong. I do see that IGE though is getting sued by someone that felt posting in a forum about suing woudnt get him anywhere so he did take legal action. Anyway best of luck in suing CCP over what ever it was you felt they need to be sued for. |
Varopriest
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.02 05:28:00 -
[249]
Originally by: MilowFV
My guess it would be a waste of time and money, but you can easly prove that wrong. I do see that IGE though is getting sued by someone that felt posting in a forum about suing woudnt get him anywhere so he did take legal action. Anyway best of luck in suing CCP over what ever it was you felt they need to be sued for.
Thanks for that information. Here's a link that I found interesting on the subject. Here
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Chomapuraku
Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.02 06:11:00 -
[250]
this thread is so ridiculously over, it's not even funny.
guy buys isk, gets negative wallet, petitions it, GMs point and laugh at him, tell him that **** happens when you buy isk
guy goes to forums for satisfaction, lies about a bunch of stuff, tries to stir up the **** against the GMs. GMs stamp his sorry ass out like a cigarette, we (the monkeys) laugh and throw **** at him
other idiots try to argue that the GMs are out of line. it is clear to anyone with a brain larger than a sparrow testicle that the GMs are very much in the right.
GM deletes this post, declares thread over |
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Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.05.02 06:59:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Cruthensis Let me guess... four covetors and an itty 5?
Sounds more like a farmer to me.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. It used to be three Covetors and an Iteron V but that was a long time ago. Now it's three Hulks and an Iteron V. Lots of legitimate players mine that way, too. But real ISK farmers rarely speak English and would never take the time to be posting here. Triple fail for you.
Hey, I know you. Met you when you were chasing some ISK farmers from system to system. Sorry to see you taking such a knee-jerk, prejudicial position on this.
Whoa there! Did you not see the: Twas a joke. Indeed ISK farmers don't (we think!) post on the forums.
Overall I've noticed more 4xBarge/Exhumer + 1 Itty5 groups than 3:1, but that's not exactly big news. I've noticed a decline in the popularity in these mining groups (except for in the ice fields ) in favour of the real ISK printing machines: mission farming CNRs and lo-sec haulers.
But don't listen to me. I obviously don't know what I'm talking about. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.02 09:13:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Zanpt And believe me, sooner or later this kind of thing will end up in court, and CCP's EULA and TOS will not count for ****...
Wont happend. Why? Because its CCP property! They are only giving you access to it!
Sorry, no. As players invest greater amounts of time and money they begin to acquire rights that will sooner or later begin to be recognized by the courts. At that point it won't matter what the EULA says, the courts will begin to eviscerate the EULA. That's just the way it is, moreso in some countries and less so in others. The sovereign power of the state trumps all in the end.
As I tried to allude to but you apparently didn't get, there are contracts you can sign now, today, that have clauses that cannot be enforced. Employee non-compete clauses are unenforceable in most States in the U.S. because courts have held that no one can be prohibited from earning a living. It's also widely understood that in the U.S. system you can't sign away certain rights. You can sign, but it's unenforceable.
I'm pretty sure that no matter how much they pay, they won't be granted the right to cheat.
Professional footballers earn tens of thousands of pounds per match played, but they can't sue FIFA when they get a 1/2/10 match ban for breaking the rules. |
Sn0w Wh1te
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Posted - 2008.05.02 09:15:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Ko Shimin Edited by: Ko Shimin on 25/04/2008 05:55:28 I logged in 2 days ago and found my main account with 300 million isk less. In wallet I see a reversed trade between me and a player I don't even know. Petition reaveals that this transaction was reversed because the GMs thought that I bought isk from that player. In the last few months I had multiple transactions with other players in 300m range by selling plex items like Dread Guristas Invulnerability Shields and other stuff, so most probably the GMs reffer to one of those transactions or.. it can be a mistake from their side. I never bought any isk. I play this game with 4 accounts to cover efficiently all areas of the game and to have a steady flow of isk into my wallet. A casual game session for me is with 2 accounts running level 4 missions/plexing/exploring and the other 2 accounts mining/manufacturing. Since the GMs don't want to return MY isk, I have decided to give up on EVE Online. There is no point in playing a game where the GMs can rob a player's hard work. Some of you might say "get over it, farm fast and continue playing". That is not the case. Also, the GM responded: "It is absolutely certain that all donations from this character were being sold for real money." Oh really??? Do you have any proof that I DID PAY??? You have my bank statement proving that I payed anything to the owner of that character??? No?? Then you friggin certainity is just circumstancial.. I know I can recover the ROBBED isk in about 2 days play time, but why should I? The isk I have been ROBBED of is not the only problem. I have lost more than that. Actually my loss would be: 300 million isk + the time spent to gather the isk (which translates into subscription fee) + the time needed to recover the loss. There is also a matter of pride and trust. I cannot stand idle and raise my shoulders saying **** happens and continue playing, that's the pride thing. The trust thing is, if this happened once, why shouldn't it happen again???? So I have cancelled my accounts. I want to congratulate CCP for it's way of insuring it's loss of subscribers. In my case the 300m isk would be the value of a 60 day time code. So, you CCP for a 60 day time code (which by no means was stolen from you as I HAVE NOT BOUGHT ANY ISK).. worth, how much? 25-30$? You have lost the following:
4 accounts worth 60$ each month (my accounts)
an EON Magazine client (my subscriptions) worth about 60$ a year (or 15$ per issue)
another 5 accounts worth 75$ each month (my brother in law is cancelling along with me)
another EON Magazine client worth about 60$ a year (or 15$ per issue)(my brother in law also buys EON Magazine)
plus more to come as 3 other real life friends that played the game see no more reason to play as me and my brother in law are quitting. They have another 7 accounts total which could be another 105$ a month if they will quit also.
Good job CCP! You just made a VERY BAD deal..
I think that I'll save this year's game subscriptions and EON subscriptions and spend it all at the local w.h.o.r.e.house for some prime time, at least that will be something pleasant to remember..
Too bad that this unique and great game is ruined by your insatiable hunger for $ and your "trigger happy" GMs.
All this crap for a measly 300m.. Zomg what is EVE coming too lol
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Mothercare
Elite D.I.S Organisation
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Posted - 2008.05.04 07:40:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Bruminam I have 5 accounts. I have them set up as a mining operation. I only play a few hours a week, in fact I haven't had time at all to play for nearly a month. I'm certainly not a farmer or a RMT.
Your post is an insult towards our, the readers, intelligence.
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Mothercare
Elite D.I.S Organisation
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Posted - 2008.05.04 07:49:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Bruminam You're too dumb to realise you might be wrong.
And "You're too dumb to realise" that if you post a post like that it will be taken as "I am macro mining/farming".
You are still insulting our intelligence... or are you "too dumb to realise" that?
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Mothercare
Elite D.I.S Organisation
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Posted - 2008.05.04 08:05:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Bruminam I'm about done playing. Like I said, I posted this for CCP's info.
The proper way to "inform" CCP is to use the ingame petition system for this, not the forums. And yeah, while your are at it dont forget to tell your dog to end the EON subscription as well. (read: Yes, we are fully aware of that your are posting anti-CCP propaganda.)
Originally by: Bruminam They ARE making mistakes. Its costing them subscribers.
We, the players, are happy with your decision to stop farm ISK from eve |
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies Roids'Are'Us
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Posted - 2008.05.04 08:16:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Bruminam . All of them were guilded into the Corp
So...you got Word of Warcraft gold farmers as well. Well, then we know that as well.
The apples never fall far form the tree...
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari The Fallen Gingerbread Men Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.05.04 08:25:00 -
[258]
Wait a minute... Where did the OP go? |
Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.05.04 09:13:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Miranda Starborn Word of Warcraft
Now that sounds like a boring game. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.04 09:14:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Big Al ...Oops, that would require CCP to lose those farmer subs...
That's a common misconception. It's highly unlikely that any ISK farming or selling operation ever spends even a dime on subs. Their stock in trade is ISK... as long as they can buy GTCs for ISK, it would run completely counter to their purpose to ever buy a sub with RL money. They are about bringing RL money in, not sending RL money out.
I bet you are the type of person who will claim elsewhere that ISK-for-GTC is good because money goes to CCP etc. ;-)
Fact is, GTC-for-ISK benefits mostly ISK farmers (not the alleged "poor students", if you have been in game for a while, you will know that even in the poorest countries people buy lots of ISK through GTC).
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Jimmae
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:53:00 -
[261]
To those who still claim it's all made up by GM's I want to say this:
I am dispatching and recieving "large" sums of isk fairly regulary. We're talking hundreds of millions to billions. It's all legit business but aiming towards leaving as little traces as possible towards my associates.
Therefor I am expecting CCP to come down on me some day (for a long time already) and I could even understand if it happened. However nothing happened so far... even with a donation of well over 1 bil going into my wallet once without any goods exchanged.
There might be a chance they're following the wrong lead every now and then but personally I do not think it happens very often.
PS: Yes, this is an alt post for the simple reason to protec my business and my associates.
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Bob Veers
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.06 22:32:00 -
[262]
Can anyone tell me about how long it takes for the GM's to get back to you about a dispute? I provided proof in a petition yesterday, and was just wondering if this is like ship reimbursement, or like a stuck petition? I kinda feel stuck with a negative wallet, but I am totally willing to go through the proper channels, just hoping it is a quick response time.
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