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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 74 post(s) |
Carlos Aranda
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:33:00 -
[301] - Quote
Orbit Uranus wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Report blue bots. Alliances can't seriously make "No report Blue Bots" rules. Alliances aren't playing EVE to be CCP's police task force on bots. Let the ones who get paid for it find the bots.
This is very wrong. In RL, too. If you do not fight criminals, they take over your world. Especially alliances, who have Corporation, who accept the EULA and kick botters, must go more public. Name and shame. If CCP does not do it, name and shame CCP, too. Silence by the good guys helps only the cheaters. It is the worst that can happen. |
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
442
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 02:45:00 -
[302] - Quote
Carlos Aranda wrote:This is very wrong. In RL, too. If you do not fight criminals, they take over your world.
Not only do you seem to have great difficulty in seeing that real life is not the same as a video game, but I get the impression you come from a rather corrupt area of the world and seem to be rather bitter about that fact.
It's not my job to hunt down and fight criminals on behalf of the police*, and neither is it my job to hunt down and catch botters on behalf of CCP. Perhaps if you reined in your seething rage over ZOMG SPACESHIP CHEATERS you'd be able to join an adult discussion on the matter, without resorting to trite cliches or evading word filters because swearing is so edgy.
*although I did enjoy the film Super |
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
544
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 02:51:00 -
[303] - Quote
Orbit Uranus wrote:Alliances aren't playing EVE to be CCP's police task force on bots. Let the ones who get paid for it find the bots.
Yeah... I see what you wrote but, here is what I heard you say...
Orbit Uranus wrote:I just had some of my bot accounts banned and I'm pretty upset. Ban the other guys bots, not mine!
|
Samroski
Games Inc. EVE Trade Consortium
45
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Posted - 2012.03.04 06:29:00 -
[304] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote: It's not my job to hunt down and fight criminals on behalf of the police*, and neither is it my job to hunt down and catch botters on behalf of CCP. Perhaps if you reined in your seething rage over ZOMG SPACESHIP CHEATERS you'd be able to join an adult discussion on the matter, without resorting to trite cliches or evading word filters because swearing is so edgy. *although I did enjoy the film Super
It is your civic duty to report a crime in RL, if you are witness to it, no matter where in the world you live. I agree that you do not need to apprehend the criminal- but you cannot justify not reporting it to the police.
|
Anika Mobius
Solid State Security Random Coalition of Corporations
10
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Posted - 2012.03.04 07:32:00 -
[305] - Quote
Most of these issue are resolved if CCP is just intelligent in their approach and follows some simple rules:
- Use an intelligent, statistical based detection algorithm to detect suspected bots. Make sure every reported bot gets tested ASAP using the algorithm. Unlike real life, CCP actually is god and does know everything you've been doing. This can be made to work, and well.
- Lock characters suspected of botting, but not just accused of botting. Be sure to send the on file email account a notification of the lock down along with an explanation.
- Have a system by which owners of lock characters can appeal the lock down. Make this a standard appeals process by which any owner who need it, has easy access to it.
- Owners that fail to appeal or fail their appeal should have their accounts banned.
- Have an escalation path for banned accounts (similar to a senior or appeals court).
- Make sure innocent locked/banned accounts are compensated in game & training time.
This seems like a lot at first, but these are paying customers and if they are not truly at fault they should not be punished. Think of this as a final death execution where the defendant is granted a number of appeals at higher and higher levels of court until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or set free with an apology.
Also, some will say this is too much and will cost a lot. Well as far as I can tell, CCP just raised our fee by US$5/month.
Finally, to restore faith and trust: CCP should post statistical number about locked/banned accounts due to botting. They should also post number about how many were accused but found innocent. The data should be broken down by the types of botting being done and the region of space it was being done in. - A.Mobius |
Endeavour Starfleet
683
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Posted - 2012.03.04 11:12:00 -
[306] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote:Carlos Aranda wrote:This is very wrong. In RL, too. If you do not fight criminals, they take over your world. Not only do you seem to have great difficulty in seeing that real life is not the same as a video game, but I get the impression you come from a rather corrupt area of the world and seem to be rather bitter about that fact. It's not my job to hunt down and fight criminals on behalf of the police*, and neither is it my job to hunt down and catch botters on behalf of CCP. Perhaps if you reined in your seething rage over ZOMG SPACESHIP CHEATERS you'd be able to join an adult discussion on the matter, without resorting to trite cliches or evading word filters because swearing is so edgy. * although I did enjoy the film Super
Well if you don't want to put much effort into it I can understand. However if you see an obvious blue bot you would report it right? |
Carlos Aranda
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 11:35:00 -
[307] - Quote
CynoNet Two wrote:Carlos Aranda wrote:This is very wrong. In RL, too. If you do not fight criminals, they take over your world. Not only do you seem to have great difficulty in seeing that real life is not the same as a video game, but I get the impression you come from a rather corrupt area of the world and seem to be rather bitter about that fact.
Criminals are very emotional ppl. If organized crime makes law no more count, they rule and murder ppl, who break their law. It is about live and death, or fight and silience.
Eve is only a game. It is so easy compared to RL to be not silent and hide from the cheaters. Just do not be silient and let them do what they want. that is exactly what they want. Silent people. Maybe the cheater companeis ahve more rescourses than Darius and CCP. If we do nothing, it can not be controlled.
In Italy are many cams, sometimes they film a mafia murder with people around it. But nobody want to be witness in mafia land. Or if your car stolen and police only laugh about you. Next time stolen again. Then it will not take long time until the first guys, whose car was stolen, steal car "back" from somebody else. Mafia towns are very silent, because everybody has fear.
But you do not need to have fear in Eve or be silent. So you should use that privileg. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Broken Toys
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:21:00 -
[308] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Adding to my post above with a practical example.
There's a 3rd party tool that has been announced weeks ago (has 20 or so forum pages!) that completely automates in game market prices gathering. It really opens the right window for you, fills in the right item for you, then switches to the next and so on.
With such cumbersome default UI, a player seeing such software would rejoyce!
But wait, is this software - residing on the official EvE forums but never "checked" legit? Or is it a bot? What to the dozens who use it? Until what point an end user is meant to be so much geek to know if a certain python thing is good, another is bad, a DLL is ok and another is not? This is the lack of "tools" I am talking about.
That sounds illegal. It probably is and the ones using it will get probably banned soon (if its first time then rather temporarily). If in doubt you can always petition and ask if something you plan to do is legal in EVE. No need to guess.
It has been posted several times by devs and GM's what they consider illegal in EVE. As a rough rule of thumb - if it automates the game to the point where without your input the game "plays on its own" its illegal. And it does not matter if you are sitting at computer and watching it to do it or not.
Now fancy keyboards n stuff are a bit of a gray area, but there are limits what CCP allows in there as well. I know as I petitioned a while ago asking if one thing is legal and was told not to do it as it would get me banned. I was asking about old PI system which was very damn clik heavy and a mouse driver which were able to record the mouse movements and then replay them. So it would have been relatively easy to record the mouse movements once and then replay them every morning for 20 minutes it took me to refresh my PI farm while just sitting there and sipping my morning coffee. Ofc as I was told to not do it I did not and continued wasting 20 minutes of my life every morning clicking on PI crap until I got fed up with it and stopped doing PI.
It's ok to use fancy keyboard to activate hardeners or launchers/turrets with one button press. It is not ok to make the same keyboard macro activate the launchers once every ~3 minutes, load up with FoF and go watch TV (also, by the same logic, putting papewrweight on F1 is bannable offence, as it allows "AFK play"). Anything that allows "AFK play" is not allowed, regardless if it's fancy hardware, clever python script, some recorded pattern of movements or even just plain old rock put on F1 on the perfectly ordinary keyboard. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
260
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:55:00 -
[309] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Adding to my post above with a practical example.
There's a 3rd party tool that has been announced weeks ago (has 20 or so forum pages!) that completely automates in game market prices gathering. It really opens the right window for you, fills in the right item for you, then switches to the next and so on.
With such cumbersome default UI, a player seeing such software would rejoyce!
But wait, is this software - residing on the official EvE forums but never "checked" legit? Or is it a bot? What to the dozens who use it? Until what point an end user is meant to be so much geek to know if a certain python thing is good, another is bad, a DLL is ok and another is not? This is the lack of "tools" I am talking about. That sounds illegal. It probably is and the ones using it will get probably banned soon (if its first time then rather temporarily). If in doubt you can always petition and ask if something you plan to do is legal in EVE. No need to guess. It has been posted several times by devs and GM's what they consider illegal in EVE. As a rough rule of thumb - if it automates the game to the point where without your input the game "plays on its own" its illegal. And it does not matter if you are sitting at computer and watching it to do it or not. Now fancy keyboards n stuff are a bit of a gray area, but there are limits what CCP allows in there as well. I know as I petitioned a while ago asking if one thing is legal and was told not to do it as it would get me banned. I was asking about old PI system which was very damn clik heavy and a mouse driver which were able to record the mouse movements and then replay them. So it would have been relatively easy to record the mouse movements once and then replay them every morning for 20 minutes it took me to refresh my PI farm while just sitting there and sipping my morning coffee. Ofc as I was told to not do it I did not and continued wasting 20 minutes of my life every morning clicking on PI crap until I got fed up with it and stopped doing PI. It's ok to use fancy keyboard to activate hardeners or launchers/turrets with one button press. It is not ok to make the same keyboard macro activate the launchers once every ~3 minutes, load up with FoF and go watch TV (also, by the same logic, putting papewrweight on F1 is bannable offence, as it allows "AFK play"). Anything that allows "AFK play" is not allowed, regardless if it's fancy hardware, clever python script, some recorded pattern of movements or even just plain old rock put on F1 on the perfectly ordinary keyboard.
Actually, this specific one is fine. It's a web page that uses the igb browser's javascript calls to open the market pages (CCP provided) and a cache scraper for getting the prices. Both have been oked by GMs. Doesn't change anything.
It's what eve central, eve market data and eve marketeer use. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 08:09:00 -
[310] - Quote
THANK YOU, this means allot to me. |
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Stragak
Mangi Consilii S E D I T I O N
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:54:00 -
[311] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Any comment on whether market bots were also hit? Inquiring trading minds want to know! I would like those details as well |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 13:04:00 -
[312] - Quote
In the name of our whole corporation i want to thank you guys for taking actions against these people.
We have made real friends while playing the best game ever and would love to keep doing so.
I just hope the "three strikes" dont mean three chances for botter (...fill in your favorite offense here...) to refine their software.
+ awesome pic - no graphs and why the hell is it that expensive to go to fanfest once the special offers are sold out Next year i will be with the early birds
Cheers Gal |
Onar Maldarian
WALLTREIPERS WALLTREIPERS ALLIANCE
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 15:47:00 -
[313] - Quote
8 years. [irony]Good job[/irony] |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
229
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 15:59:00 -
[314] - Quote
I think it should be
1 warning with a 30 day ban and a year character lock and if they do it again perma ban.
Why give them more then one warning? it makes no sense....
I dont care if only 3% of people get a third strike Why let people bot for 2 strikes? I know a guy who said he botted for 2 years and got 2 strikes in that time and stopped botting. BUT HE BOTTED FOR 2 YEARS BEFORE STOPPING.
This is not good.
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Chevy Hakoke
Shockwave Innovations Stellar Economy Experts
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 23:00:00 -
[315] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Suggestion:
After first offense/14-day ban:
Reduce the character to -10.0 security status and -5.00 faction-standing with all four factions, to be improved using the standard methods.
I think this will make absolutely clear that they should never, ever do that again whilst giving them a legitimate chance to "rehabilitate" themselves.
After second offense:
Wallet reduced to zero, all assets removed, plus the standings penalty above, again able to "rehabilitate" using normal methods.
Third offense:
Permanent, account-level, not just that character--ban, all characters and assets on that account biomassed.
Because...because **** them, that's why.
E:
The second offense's penalties should apply to all characters on that account, not just the one botting, and any re-rolls in empty slots will be "born" with those standings as well.
Botting is bad, m'kay? It just needs to be shown very explicitly to anyone who does it that it will carry harsh, long-term consequences. the current first 2 strikes are a slap on the wrist, although the character transfer-lock is a big step in the right direction.
yes....Yes....YES!!!!!!!! |
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 00:25:00 -
[316] - Quote
Trainwreck McGee wrote:I think it should be
1 warning with a 30 day ban and a year character lock and if they do it again perma ban.
Why give them more then one warning? it makes no sense....
I dont care if only 3% of people get a third strike Why let people bot for 2 strikes? I know a guy who said he botted for 2 years and got 2 strikes in that time and stopped botting. BUT HE BOTTED FOR 2 YEARS BEFORE STOPPING.
This is not good.
It must be PERMANENT lock. In any other way they will only have more accounts. This is banned, make new, this is banned, make new, this is banned, first is unlocked, sell char from first, make new acc, buy new char. And here is cycle closed again. With more accounts botter have the same thing as now, when is banned, sell char, buy new char on new acc.
THIS CAN NOT HAPPEN, SO LOCK MUST BE PERMANENT!!! |
Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 09:45:00 -
[317] - Quote
It seems like the market bot bannings have relaxed the jita market, but regional markets like VFK in Deklein still feel like they are being mechanically/methodically manipulated. Most things I add are undercut by 0.01 isk within 30minutes. Various analytical tools have let me target specific things to test this. I'm willing to share my data on how I arrived at what goods to monitor and the patterns that have developed as a result. Also, please ban these jerks. They can't be sharking people 23x7 day in and day out, and still be human. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 14:28:00 -
[318] - Quote
How about making a way for the bots don't work anymore? this is a bot site with its description vids and whatever so you guys from ccp can start with it: http://www.reboot.gr/ I saw it on my facebook and i had to post it here, it will help understand how bots work.
Bots are usualy dumb, they can't handle against the intelligence and determination of good players.
I already saw many drakes in null-sec using this feature. Since my corp and Alliace are totaly against botters we usually get a tackler fleet, put 1 player on each belt of the botter system and then everybody logs off... then we log back again at the same time and we try to point it down before it warps away and cloaks. and we repeat the process until it is tackled. Then we kill it, and then we help the char back to a station PODing it back home.
Today we need about 10 players to kill a botter, but as soon as CCP delivers the cloak hunter ship this number will go down to 2 or 3. Because most of the botters use the safe-spot+cloak strategy. And as we get able to track the "botter cloaker" we can decloak and kill him easly. So it it get way more dangerous for bots, this will reduce significantly their numbers... ( Althoug this will also end the afk cloaker griefing... since it is a way to play the game afk, and also a form of bot imo.)
Please CCP, you guys don't need to hunt most of the bots. You can make the own system and players hunt the majority of them for you.
Also remove the mineral drop from Drones and give them bounty. So there will be more profit on mining and more minners and players will go to null-sec. removing the space of the botters. |
Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 15:46:00 -
[319] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:How about making a way for the bots don't work anymore? this is a bot site with its description vids and whatever so you guys from ccp can start with it: http://www.reboot.gr/ I saw it on my facebook and i had to post it here, it will help understand how bots work. Bots are usualy dumb, they can't handle against the intelligence and determination of good players. So that was the source of the majority of the anom/belt ratting bots that were banned. |
Luvvin McHunt
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 23:50:00 -
[320] - Quote
So if the light assault launchers are called 'Arrays' now - the new name implies every loaded missile can be shot at once.
Not a good name change for a launcher as it's less accurate/descriptive than the old name. |
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Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 23:53:00 -
[321] - Quote
bot get loots get strike one bot more get more loots get strike 2, darn it oh well i have a plan sell the actual account to some sap on the internet for $$
this is one of the many reasons the 3 strike system is foolish, maybe MAYBE 2 strikes.. but 3? come on.
the 2 strikes would be for players botting a few hours because they wanted a shiny battlecruiser, not to fund an alliance titan or 4.
other then that keep banning them. |
Vassilius Amilupar
Vassilius Amilupar Corporate
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 10:08:00 -
[322] - Quote
I think CCP are a bit late on fighting bot since they are here from 6 years if not since the begining of the game ...
They already did their massive amount of damage on the game by providing easy ISKs to some groups(by industrialisation of the botting) and maybe more tricks about hacking the client.
But anyway, you have to do it, congratulation on that !!
I think the 3 strikes is too much friendly, people try, people get warned, end of it, if they go a second time they will do it whenever is possible. The bad things for you as a company, is that give you less subscription ... ( We are not blind ).
but there is something more interesting things behind the bot in a casual manner. Doing NPCs, or mission is a pain after few hours of play, the fun is not here from my point of view, i'm playing this game for 6-7years with lot of mate and we agree on that ...
You are already a bot when you do mining with 2 or more account , or doing boring mission or boring belt or similar activity .
Will you ban us all ? :D
Anyway good job on chasing bot CCP Sreegs and team, that from a ex-ally doing boring pos shooting with your ex-alliance :)
PS: sorry for the bad english text ... |
Aren Dar
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 10:39:00 -
[323] - Quote
Selling characters is a side business to most botters, and not their main one. They make more in a weeks botting than they will do by selling their Tengu pilot of Character bazaar. So this will slightly raise the cost of botting, but won't prevent it. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 18:10:00 -
[324] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Have a wonderful weekend!
Thanks Sreegs - As an industrial player this is great news. BTW - I don't like rude people - but I will have a good weekend as well now thanks to this effort of yours and your team.
Even just - Simply stating / restating an intention to act against cheats will deter some of them I am sure.
Nice work - and you have a good weekend too! |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 02:53:00 -
[325] - Quote
KFenn wrote:Bubanni wrote:OH ccp, what are you doing to make sure they don't just RMT away the accounts? (sell the account for real money) when they get locked... In all honesty, what can they do? If they suspect the account has been involved in RMT they can close it, but it's really, really hard to detect that.
The account could be RMTed away, but under the old system a gold miner could have his character jump accounts, along with fortune who would know if the new account is the same person or a different one.
If the same char is on the same account of a suspect botter is stuck, if they (or someone else) does it again, with the same char and account the strikes could keep raising. Doesn't matter if its peter or paul who is now farming with the account, the offenses would (or should) be tied to the same account, and lead to banning.
Yes it might be possible to RMT a farming char for botting who has a warning on them, but then they pay $100 for a account that is one flag away from ban, I don't believe telling ccp that the account was traded illegally would help the case of the new owner over past offenses, and explaining any new offenses.
As others suggested, 3 strikes is way too lenient, I would say if suspect botting/laundering isk for botting, lock the chars and account, and assets at once. Then do a judicial review of the account, if it is found to be a botter, permaban if it is, or unlock if it is not (innocence). Or one warning with char lock, then permaban after next offence.
Also make sure that stuff like freezing assets and char transfers, and warnings are never revoked over time unless innocence is proven. Don't encourage cycling characters. |
Parthonax
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 12:35:00 -
[326] - Quote
Who cares CCP you are killing your own game anyway Bots are not the the real reason this game has become dull and one sided
Your own failure in giving newplayers a reason to keep playing your own idiotic policy in encouraging griefing and your biased opinion and way you favour nullsec alliances , favoring them over the majority of your subscribers ,
that what will kill your game not bots You probably already lost more subscribers because of these facts than the whole incarnia debacle and , these latest bot purges together so this is permanence |
Beckie DeLey
Brigade of Guards SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 13:11:00 -
[327] - Quote
botter detected It's The Legendary Extraordinary Me |
Parthonax
14
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Posted - 2012.03.09 14:36:00 -
[328] - Quote
Beckie DeLey wrote:botter detected shut up you little braindead i have the right to out my opinion , even when it is the truth and you or CCP don't like it so this is permanence |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
434
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 14:42:00 -
[329] - Quote
Parthonax wrote:Who cares CCP you are killing your own game anyway Bots are not the the real reason this game has become dull and one sided
Your own failure in giving newplayers a reason to keep playing your own idiotic policy in encouraging griefing and your biased opinion and way you favour nullsec alliances , favoring them over the majority of your subscribers ,
that what will kill your game not bots You probably already lost more subscribers because of these facts than the whole incarnia debacle and , these latest bot purges together
Hi welcome to the bot thread. Please stay on topic. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
434
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 14:49:00 -
[330] - Quote
Xorv wrote:
Thanks for the reply Sreegs, your efforts in dealing with botters and communicating with the EVE community here is genuinely appreciated. Still very underwhelmed by the punishment , 14 days is barely a slap on the wrist for someone who has gone out of their way to get a third party program with the specific intent to cheat in the game.
While it is understood you did not respond to my specific suggestions, and I appreciate why,. I will say this, EVE needs holistic treatment that addresses the disease not merely treating the symptoms, and that can only be done at the design level. A lot of us are hoping that Inferno moves in that direction and really delivers.
Not directly at you but since this is a common refrain, 14 days works. It simply does. You may not like that it works but it does and we'll show you the numbers that back that up. In addition there's some other fun things that are happening like that character lock, as well as something fresh I'll announce once it's ready. |
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