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CSM Topic: Jita

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Author	Topic
Alindyar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:07:00 - [1] Propose a dead system (void of belts, planets, stations) in parallel to Jita which autopilot 100% routes through rather than Jita. Less AFK traffic.
Alindyar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:07:00 - [2] Propose a dead system (void of belts, planets, stations) in parallel to Jita which autopilot 100% routes through rather than Jita. Less AFK traffic.
Arithron	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:42:00 - [3] Good idea, somewhere for pirates to hang out in to get all those nice haulers! Even better, you'd be assured of plenty of traffic and hence targets....
Jaedar Metron I G N O T U S	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:23:00 - [4] I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic Arithron, or if you sincerely think it's a good idea. I like the idea, keeps Jita from being crowded by travellers. If people are afraid of pirates in the travelling system, well... They don't have to use it
Segge Bolled Caldari Dirty Sexy Pilots New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.04.29 02:13:00 - [5] I'd prefer a re-working of gate routes - I'm not 100% certain of the current routing and I'm a) in a lecture and b) about to leave it, so I can't really do any checking. Though what I'd like to see is a re-working of the route that instead places Jita onto a "ring" of linked systems, with some of those systems then branching out onto the most common routes. That way, instead of a normal intersection styled cross-road that jams so easily, you have a larger round-about/traffic circle in play. This way Jita remains a "core" system but the load is still somewhat distributed out across more systems and potentially, even regions - with some smart mapping.
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.29 02:37:00 - [6] Just changing the gates around so its 1 jump from the end of the long jump into caldari space but a deadend system so only traders go there would be nice.
Slayton Ford STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:35:00 - [7] Add in rotating Jita Cn 4/4 so the undock traffic jam can be aliviated. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer...
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Slayton Ford Add in rotating Jita Cn 4/4 so the undock traffic jam can be aliviated. Traffic jams, at least in my experience, haven't been a problem since the last patch. But lets face it, Jita is the product of scale, due to the law of the network. You CAN'T kill this in any sensible way. We just have to fix the underlying problem, which CCP is working on.
Peri Stark Gallente Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.04.29 05:46:00 - [9] I have never understood why people expect CCP to fix this. We pilots control where the stuff is sold and where we go to buy it. If everyone and thier brother insist on going to the same crowded system what exactly do you expect CCP to do about it. Sell it somewhere else at the same price and people will start buying it there. Or is that to simple? ================================================ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! Vote Peri Stark for the CSM.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 06:48:00 - [10] A simple solution would be a "avoid system x" option for autopilot. It would make possible to plot a route avoiding Jita with ease even for people that hasn't memorized the systems around it and would be very nice to have in a lot of other conditions.

Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.04.29 07:13:00 - [11] The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita.
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr	Posted - 2008.04.29 07:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Hesod Adee The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita. this might work. but it might too make jita even more attractive. jita naturally evolved into what it is today, just like rens. The players decided to make it their market hubs. Alter anything, and the players find a new place to overcrowd it. So far alternative autopilot routes is the best idea i heared to ease the load from jita system except of course adding more datacenter power to the related nodes which might not be as easy as said. recruiting -forum
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 07:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Hesod Adee The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita. No. I often take a shuttle and autopilot to Jita, if my hauler is there. I'm simply too lazy to fly there manually. I would rather have it take double the time and be able to multitask, than not being able to multitask.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:00:00 - [14] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Hesod Adee The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita. No. I often take a shuttle and autopilot to Jita, if my hauler is there. I'm simply too lazy to fly there manually. I would rather have it take double the time and be able to multitask, than not being able to multitask. Eh ? If you have something in a system you want to pickup, and you want to use the autopilot, you put a waypoint in that system so that the AP stops there. Since I'm not proposing the removal of any gates, you would still fly the same route as you do now. The only difference is when someone plots a route that would currently take them through Jita without placing a waypoint in Jita. Whatever algorithm Eve uses to calculate routes will avoid Jita simply because the extra gates guarantee that the shortest route will not go through it.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Hesod Adee Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Hesod Adee The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita. No. I often take a shuttle and autopilot to Jita, if my hauler is there. I'm simply too lazy to fly there manually. I would rather have it take double the time and be able to multitask, than not being able to multitask. Eh ? If you have something in a system you want to pickup, and you want to use the autopilot, you put a waypoint in that system so that the AP stops there. Since I'm not proposing the removal of any gates, you would still fly the same route as you do now. The only difference is when someone plots a route that would currently take them through Jita without placing a waypoint in Jita. Whatever algorithm Eve uses to calculate routes will avoid Jita simply because the extra gates guarantee that the shortest route will not go through it. Oh yeah, my bad. I read it as if you said that autopilot just shouldn't be able to enter Jita Stops posting during a lecture
Alekseyev Karrde Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:35:00 - [16] I'm not a CSM candidate but I have a constructive opinion a few CSM candiates might or might not like. Jita thrives because of selection (everyone knows that if it exists, your sure to find it here), competition (so many sellers/producers you are as likly to get a good price as anywhere else, might not be THE best but it wont be inflated), location (have to pass through it for many routes whether shopping or not and it's reletivly convinient to get to if you are shopping), and volume (as byproduct of all of the above, theres alot of each thing for sale and inventory moves quick. 1. Selection. Cant mess with that too much, it's player controlled who sells what and how many different flavors of it. But while everythings in Jita, not alot in some other regional hubs so diversifying is probably good. 2. Competition. This is actually a good thing. The bad part, like with selection, is that it's all in Jita when far too many other trade hubs have only one or two producers for some high tech/expensive items. 3. Location. Cant do much about people's perceptions of convinience, but you can fix the through traffic. Rearrange the gates so that no direct route through any two systems includes Jita as a jump, but keep the gates to Jita in the systems that have them. The effect would be a "pit stop" of sorts, where you could get to Jita as easily as now but it would be 1 jump to the side of the main "highway" 4. Volume. Here is where I think the key to spreading Jita out is. Much like NPC buy/sell orders get adjusted for demand in the trade market, CCP could institute a similar idea for NPC taxes. The more trading volume is done in a particular system, the taxes increase slightly. Low volume areas have lower taxes. Clearly, greedy regulatory agencies would like to have a larger piece of the pie of a place like Jita, where they might encourage low tax as a means of promoting economic growth in less developed systems. The npc fees are already skill based to an extent, so trade characters have an advantage, but they could also be made to be standing-reliant, encouraging, through convinience, that non-Caldari to trade in their own regional hubs. While I leave it to CCP and others more qualified to work out the number specifics, the general affect would be to encourage market diversification through people naturally wanting more ISK. If they continue to sell in Jita as the taxes go up, either their profits will go down making them likly to look elsewhere to sell, or the prices will rise making consumers inclined to shop elsewhere in search of a better deal. Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde While I leave it to CCP and others more qualified to work out the number specifics, the general affect would be to encourage market diversification through people naturally wanting more ISK. If they continue to sell in Jita as the taxes go up, either their profits will go down making them likly to look elsewhere to sell, or the prices will rise making consumers inclined to shop elsewhere in search of a better deal. How come? Why add features to disencourage people to do something? Why not rather encourage people to go elsewhere? What the issues with Jita are: 1. Lag 2. Market mechanics You point out very finely, that competition is good. But i do think that because of scale, the current market mechanics just aren't really fit to handle the massive amount of competition, anymore. But the first point will be fixed by CCP, due this year. The last issue we will have to discuss with the community, CSM and CCP, how we make these handle the increasing scale. I came with a few ideas in my discussion thread about the economics. But neither can be implemented alone and i think that we will have to see a major revision of the market, which changes the fundamental principles of it, while allowing real-life like behaviours. POTBS uses an interesting mechanics, but i don't think it will work in eve, as-is, but it's a VERY interesting concept, we could adopt to a certain degree.
Hesod Adee Xen Of Onslaught	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:02:00 - [18] Edited by: Hesod Adee on 29/04/2008 09:02:50 Originally by: zoolkhan Originally by: Hesod Adee The simplest solution to make the autopilot avoid Jita is to add gates so that every system connected to Jita has a gate to every other system connected to Jita. this might work. but it might too make jita even more attractive. jita naturally evolved into what it is today, just like rens. The players decided to make it their market hubs. Alter anything, and the players find a new place to overcrowd it. So far alternative autopilot routes is the best idea i heared to ease the load from jita system except of course adding more datacenter power to the related nodes which might not be as easy as said. Since the effected players would be travelling through the systems around Jita anyway, I don't see much of an increase in traffic there. So the only extra lag would be the extra gates, which shouldn't be noticeable. What this would do is simply make the players passing through the area avoid Jita, so they don't contribute to or experience the lag there. Originally by: LaVista Vista Oh yeah, my bad. I read it as if you said that autopilot just shouldn't be able to enter Jita EDIT: But my stance on to do about Jita, is in my first post in this thread. Stops posting during a lecture Fair enough. As you said there isn't a traffic jam outside 4-4 since they added the exit angles. My suggestion just removes the traffic that is passing through Jita without stopping. To be honest, I have no idea how much these players contribute to the lag, so it might not make any noticeable effect to the players in Jita. All I can guarantee is that people passing through will avoid being caught by Jita's various load related issues. I'd also advise CCP somehow configuring agents in the surrounding systems to never place a combat mission there. Either by moving agents away from the area or some special tweak to the code (so agents in Jita will always send players away from it for combat). Again this is focusing on lowering the number of people who get caught in the lag and I can't predict how much it will effect anyone who is in Jita for another reason.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Hesod Adee To be honest, I have no idea how much these players contribute to the lag, so it might not make any noticeable effect to the players in Jita. All I can guarantee is that people passing through will avoid being caught by Jita's various load related issues. Right, that is what i was wondering about too. I recall a dev stating that the main load on the node is due to items being moved trough the market(Item manipulation in general). So I'm not sure how effective it would be, but for the sake of getting around Jita, your idea DOES indeed have merrits. But for solving lag, i have my doubts. So I'm pretty sure, that one of the most requested changes to the CSM, is to make people able to go around in a circle, around Jita. But i doubt CCP will do it, due to having to change the map, thus making the new map Serenity is making, obsolete. But who knows, CCP might just do it, with factional warfare.
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2008.05.03 22:20:00 - [20] CCP created Jita - By changing the jump gate routes. Or rather, it wasnt so much created, as simply moved from the previous trade hub (gah, mind is blank atm... name escapes me). CCP had the right idea, changing the jump routes, to try an eliminate the huge central all encompassing trade hub - and trying to introduce a more spread out market. Only their implementation sadly failed... But it is the way to do it, but for it to truly work, the changes in jump routes needed are rather radical (one ingredient is removing some of the very "long" inter regional jumps) TornSoul campaign website : It's about "The BIG picture"

Alindyar The Golden Goat	Posted - 2008.05.03 23:46:00 - [21] Originally by: TornSoul CCP created Jita - By changing the jump gate routes. Or rather, it wasnt so much created, as simply moved from the previous trade hub (gah, mind is blank atm... name escapes me). CCP had the right idea, changing the jump routes, to try an eliminate the huge central all encompassing trade hub - and trying to introduce a more spread out market. Only their implementation sadly failed... But it is the way to do it, but for it to truly work, the changes in jump routes needed are rather radical (one ingredient is removing some of the very "long" inter regional jumps) TornSoul campaign website : It's about "The BIG picture" What about the ideas posted on General Discussion, seperate the empires by lowsec (surronded in a ring of lowsec) each empire. Would force people to buy in there current empires space or risk the lowsec. ?
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2008.05.03 23:53:00 - [22] I think you'll find that I'm a great proponent of a solution along those lines. As hinted at in my CSM campaign thread It's a vision I've had for years... Could you link to the post you're refering to?
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.04 00:29:00 - [23] The market hub lag issue is something that I definitely believe can be revisited by CCP with a further subtle restructuring of gate arrangements. It's worked before; when Yulai was nerfed we didn't just see Jita rise in popularity but also the likes of Oursulaert, Amarr and Rens. Maybe if something similar - perhaps a more mild change in this case - happened to Jita now, we might see a similar development with new hubs forming for each of the Caldari regions, for example. Several have already suggested something as simple as placing Jita one system off to the side so it can easily be bypassed. Works for me. I also like Alekseyev Karrde's point concerning dynamic levels of market tax so that busier systems will end up having more expensive goods as vendors up their prices to compensate. This way, people can decide on whether or not the cost of convenience is worth it. /Ben
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2008.05.04 01:06:00 - [24] Edited by: TornSoul on 04/05/2008 01:06:30 Originally by: Ben Derindar Maybe if something similar - perhaps a more mild change in this case - happened to Jita now, we might see a similar development with new hubs forming for each of the Caldari regions, for example. Several have already suggested something as simple as placing Jita one system off to the side so it can easily be bypassed. Works for me. Ben, Ben, Ben... You're missing The BIG Picture here It's not about "spreading out" Jita to multiple places in Caldari space, but about spreading it out to all of EVE - Ie. to have local hubs in several places, also in Gallente, Amarr and Minmater space. But perhaps your Caldari background makes you a bit biased - Freudian slip? (just teasing ) TornSoul campaign website : It's about "The BIG picture"
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.05.04 02:48:00 - [25] Originally by: TornSoul Edited by: TornSoul on 04/05/2008 01:06:30 Originally by: Ben Derindar Maybe if something similar - perhaps a more mild change in this case - happened to Jita now, we might see a similar development with new hubs forming for each of the Caldari regions, for example. Several have already suggested something as simple as placing Jita one system off to the side so it can easily be bypassed. Works for me. Ben, Ben, Ben... You're missing The BIG Picture here It's not about "spreading out" Jita to multiple places in Caldari space, but about spreading it out to all of EVE - Ie. to have local hubs in several places, also in Gallente, Amarr and Minmater space. But perhaps your Caldari background makes you a bit biased - Freudian slip? (just teasing ) Hehe. (RP mode: on) Tornsoul my friend, perhaps you forget that in being the most technologically advanced race, yet with the smallest amount of space to its name out of the four Empires, the regions of the Caldari State have always been and will always be the most heavily populated in terms of capsuleers. While I personally have spent more of my Empire time in Amarrian space than anywhere else, I do appreciate your concern for the welfare and development of my people. Perhaps if organisations such as the Caldari Navy were to establish bases in areas outside of our sovereign territory, it would provide some of our pilots with a reason to disperse some more. How does - oooh, I dunno - Caldari Prime sound to you? No? I don't disagree with what you're saying, but perhaps my interpretation of the big picture is somewhat more realistic than yours. (RP mode: off) /Ben
Amarr Holymight Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.05.04 15:58:00 - [26] I like Jita its adds character in real life I live out in the country and driving to the nearest city can be quite daunting to me with all the noise and traffic. Jita is exactly the same it really scares me and the chance of getting stuck is a factor. There is ways to get around Jita if you use the map correctly. Hence I feel there is more pertinent issues than Jita.

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