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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:25:00 -
[1]
Ok - youve had Tarminics fluffy carebear "hug a CSM candidate" question (who would you vote for other than yourself) and much back slapping and mutual respect ensued.
But seeing as youre all running and its a competative field, and this - well this is EVE we're talking about: not some council by-election deciding the fate of the local post office!!!
So if you were not in the race which candidate would not get your support on the basis that you dont believe theyre qualified or who hold views youre utterly against??
Please be as specific as you can in your replies whilst retaining a civil(ish) tone. By all means respond if you feel another candidate is misrepresenting your views.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:31:00 -
[2]
Jade Constantine.
Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game nor the way in which games are played. He demonstrated that he has no clue about how people operate. This makes him the most dangerous of all the candidates towards the games good health and continuance.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:43:00 -
[3]
I consider being loathed and feared by Goumindong to be a positive feather in my electoral cap
CSM Election Manifesto 2008 |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I consider being loathed and feared by Goumindong to be a positive feather in my electoral cap
Very witty, however Goumindong didnt say at any point that he feared or loathed you but that you are:
"Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game"
Is he correct in that view, if not why not.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
cyberdog
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.28 23:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: cyberdog on 29/04/2008 00:00:55
Noone, untill it's shown that these CSM types can actually make a difference I believe it's just a nice little ploy by CCP to "show" they are listening to the community.
I would vote for Chribba in the future, if he was to run for CSM however.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:07:00 -
[6]
Judging by how goons play the game I'd say I prefer Jades take on things. Metagaming and suicide ganking campaigns just aren't cricket.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I consider being loathed and feared by Goumindong to be a positive feather in my electoral cap
Very witty, however Goumindong didnt say at any point that he feared or loathed you but that you are:
"Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game"
Is he correct in that view, if not why not.
C.
E.G.
It goes on for quite a few pages before it gets derailed.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Pooka
Caldari United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:14:00 -
[8]
anyone from the Goon hive, Bob, and any one who is pure PVP.
I will vote for those who are for solo play, belive in Empire as very safe space and industrailes and the little guys. PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT BRING THE BRIGHT STAR BACK!!!
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cailais "Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game" Is he correct in that view, if not why not.
He is completely incorrect of course, but I'd invite the general eve electorate to have a read of my CSM Manifesto Thread and decide for themselves really. If people like what I have to say and agree with my thoughts on the vision and direction for the game thats good enough for me. I've no time to waste with petty sideswipes at other candidates, they'll be judged by the electorate soon enough.
CSM Election Manifesto 2008 |
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:21:00 -
[10]
Candidates who are incapable of civil, objective or logical debate. I don't fancy spending 3 days locked in a room with people unwilling or incapable of delivering results
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Cailais "Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game" Is he correct in that view, if not why not.
He is completely incorrect of course, but I'd invite the general eve electorate to have a read of my CSM Manifesto Thread and decide for themselves really. If people like what I have to say and agree with my thoughts on the vision and direction for the game thats good enough for me. I've no time to waste with petty sideswipes at other candidates, they'll be judged by the electorate soon enough.
Your words
Originally by: Jade Constantine
There are many players of Eve who don't care for the territorial POS warfare game.
There are many players of Eve who think its wrong that a vast amount of developer effort has gone to promoting this indestructible outpost and POS spamming simulation in 0.0 rather than bringing good new ideas into the game.
There are many players of Eve who want small gang pvp enhanced and supported and enjoy the challenge of small unit tactics and deployment.
These people need a voice too. Thats MY job. And its why I've decided to run.
Not mine
Originally by: "Goumindong"
Originally by: "Jade Constantine"
Originally by: "Hardin" The fact that people are talking about 'terroritorialist' and 'non-territorialist' factions seems pretty premature
Its a gameplay preference not a roleplay choice. Important distinction there. Some players don't like the territorial mechanics currently dominating 0.0 space warfare. Those players need to be represented on the CSM. Its as simple as that.
No its not a gameplay preference. Its entirely a roleplay preference. Your ability to enact it in game is entirely dependent on your ability to get a force together in game compared to the ability of others to get forces together to do the opposite.[and since you operate from low-sec you actually don't have to worry about half the things others do]
For a minute, i thought you were actually arguing for things you thought would better the game and not for things that further your ingame persona's agenda.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Candidates who are incapable of civil, objective or logical debate. I don't fancy spending 3 days locked in a room with people unwilling or incapable of delivering results
Absolutely agree Serenity. Fingers crossed these attributes become apparent over the course of the campaign and voters make an informed choice to avoid the bad apples.
CSM Election Manifesto 2008 |
Adrian Steel
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:50:00 -
[13]
Why anyone would vote for Goumindong aside from Goons is beyond reason.
A candidate having no appreciable platform to speak of (as of this post), while being part of a 2000+ player alliance that takes pride in pushing game-breaking meta-gaming tactics to their limit, seems rather dangerous to me.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.29 01:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Adrian Steel Edited by: Adrian Steel on 29/04/2008 00:58:29 Why anyone would vote for Goumindong aside from Goons is beyond reason.
A candidate having no appreciable platform to speak of (as of this post), while being part of a 2000+ player alliance that takes pride in pushing game-breaking meta-gaming tactics to their limit, seems rather disingenuous to me.
Please keep the slander and lies to a minimum.
Specifically not only do we not "push game-breaking meta-gaming tactics to their limit", but I indeed have a platform if you are inclined to read it and have had for quite some time.
Furthermore, no goons will be voting for me.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Daan Sai
HAZCON Inc
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Posted - 2008.04.29 01:41:00 -
[15]
I'm not interested in sending uneducated, easy to impress, nice people to CCP. The candidates who basicly say: 'I'll be nice to you, vote for me because you can." and generally show no critical facilities, are just going to be a waste of time.
If the idea is to help transparency and keep CCP honest - we need to vote for the difficult candidates who can argue coherently and rigourously. Jade and Serenity are nice folks, but I can't see that advancing the game, just reinforcing the status quo.
I want someone to take the devs and designers to task and review their procedures and strategies.
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gesthapto lapenty
Domination. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 04:56:00 -
[16]
I would not vote for anyone in goon. Their declared way of playing the game is just not compatible with the way most of us want to.
Aside from the meta gaming element, they are more responsible than any other alliance for the whole BLOB fiasco we find the game in now.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.29 05:32:00 -
[17]
Somebody who doesn't understand reason.
That is about it. But I'm really yet to see anybody, for who this is true.
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.04.29 08:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pooka Edited by: Pooka on 29/04/2008 01:08:07 Edited by: Pooka on 29/04/2008 01:06:30 Won't support any one from the Goon hive, Bob, or any one who is pure PVP.
I will vote for those who are for solo play, belive in Empire as fairly safe space and industrailes and the little guys.
same. the goons have enough numbers(friends included) to vote themselfes in they dont need my help :-) recruiting -forum
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2008.04.29 08:47:00 -
[19]
Simply put i wouldnt vote for any candidate belonging to one of the big alliances and who is playing EVE for less than 3 years.
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Tzar'rim
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:16:00 -
[20]
I won't vote for people with a strong bias, people who (I feel) are from groups that have done EVE a dis service or people who are capable of writing 17 paragraphs without actually saying anything.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tzar'rim I won't vote for people with a strong bias, people who (I feel) are from groups that have done EVE a dis service or people who are capable of writing 17 paragraphs without actually saying anything.
Well, i was actually discussing this with Jade recently.
Isn't it better to be biased, than just saying "Vote for me, I'm not biased, and i will listen to everybody"?
To me, it shows to me that a biased person actually knows something, where the non-biased person, doesn't.
Also, according to some people, my whole document about the state of the economy(10 pages or so), said nothing. Also, isn't a good politician a person who can write alot, but say nothing, yet have the listener hear what he wants to hear?
In the end, the CSM has to represent the community. So there is a balance.
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Daveydweeb
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Daveydweeb on 29/04/2008 09:26:19 I'm entirely serious when I say this: Jade Constantine. The ability to communicate concisely is crucial in the context of the CSM, whereas Jade chose to post a 7,100-word essay across fifteen posts just in order to introduce himself.
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Tzar'rim
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 29/04/2008 09:34:54
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Tzar'rim I won't vote for people with a strong bias, people who (I feel) are from groups that have done EVE a dis service or people who are capable of writing 17 paragraphs without actually saying anything.
Well, i was actually discussing this with Jade recently.
Isn't it better to be biased, than just saying "Vote for me, I'm not biased, and i will listen to everybody"?
To me, it shows to me that a biased person actually knows something, where the non-biased person, doesn't.
Also, according to some people, my whole document about the state of the economy(10 pages or so), said nothing. Also, isn't a good politician a person who can write alot, but say nothing, yet have the listener hear what he wants to hear?
In the end, the CSM has to represent the community. So there is a balance.
I want the CSM to be unbiased as I want them to translate our problems and requests to CCP without any personal agendas, unfiltered. Regardless of playstyle or (possibly) ingame background.
People who write without actualling saying anything will smother any discussion into nothingness, resulting in non-action and never actually getting to the point of a problem. All that adds is static lowering the signal to noise ratio.
I understand the principle or a majority vote but thing is; we're not voting to elect for a group to be in control, we're voting for a comittee to help the powers that be in our name. There's a huge difference in requirements for both types and as I see it, people confuse the CSM with running for elections while having your own agenda and having the power to make decisions.
That's not what the CSM is.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 29/04/2008 09:34:54
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Tzar'rim I won't vote for people with a strong bias, people who (I feel) are from groups that have done EVE a dis service or people who are capable of writing 17 paragraphs without actually saying anything.
Well, i was actually discussing this with Jade recently.
Isn't it better to be biased, than just saying "Vote for me, I'm not biased, and i will listen to everybody"?
To me, it shows to me that a biased person actually knows something, where the non-biased person, doesn't.
Also, according to some people, my whole document about the state of the economy(10 pages or so), said nothing. Also, isn't a good politician a person who can write alot, but say nothing, yet have the listener hear what he wants to hear?
In the end, the CSM has to represent the community. So there is a balance.
I want the CSM to be unbiased as I want them to translate our problems and requests to CCP without any personal agendas, unfiltered. Regardless of playstyle or (possibly) ingame background.
People who write without actualling saying anything will smother any discussion into nothingness, resulting in non-action and never actually getting to the point of a problem. All that adds is static lowering the signal to noise ratio.
I understand the principle or a majority vote but thing is; we're not voting to elect for a group to be in control, we're voting for a comittee to help the powers that be in our name. There's a huge difference in requirements for both types and as I see it, people confuse the CSM with running for elections while having your own agenda and having the power to make decisions.
That's not what the CSM is.
CSM HAS to vote for an issue, before it will even reach the Iceland agenda.
So while the agenda of the individual isn't AS important, it is still important, in order for people to see that this candidate THAT argue about things, can do so in a clear manner and in general has a clue.
The role of the CSM is an advisory role, as well as a link between CCP and the community. If 5 out of the 9 candidates doesn't agree with a topic, it just wont be discussed at the Iceland meeting.
If the CSM is just the "yes"-people of the community, i would hate to see where eve would end up.
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Tzar'rim
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:44:00 -
[25]
There's a difference between filtering out idiotic requests (I want my <insert ship> to have 8-8-8 slots and 99% resists!!!!!) and coloring the problems and requests of the EVE population for your own benefits before pesenting them to CCP.
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TotalCareBear
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Goumindong Jade Constantine.
Pushing an in game agenda with no thought to balance the good of the game nor the way in which games are played. He demonstrated that he has no clue about how people operate. This makes him the most dangerous of all the candidates towards the games good health and continuance.
How do can I support Jade Constantine?
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tzar'rim There's a difference between filtering out idiotic requests (I want my <insert ship> to have 8-8-8 slots and 99% resists!!!!!) and coloring the problems and requests of the EVE population for your own benefits before pesenting them to CCP.
I'm really ntot sure how a request can be to your own benefit. While it might be in my interest, for instance, to change the way the market works, it doesn't mean i want that for person benefit.
You have to come with an example of HOW a CSM member would be able to colour problems and requests, and actuall have CCP do something about it. It seems EXTREMELY unlikely, leave alone impossible, for it to be as big a problem as you seem to make it.
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Tzar'rim
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:02:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 29/04/2008 10:02:37 If the majority of the CSM's are from big space holding alliances then the chances of a request from the playerbase lowering the defensive posiblities and making it easier to attack sovereignity systems will probably be watered down.
If people feels that EVE should be more catered around teamwork and thus jumpfreighters should be nerfed and that carriers should be even less useable as haulers because that in effect increases the size of the universe. Also, it narrows down the area of influence an alliance can have and advocates more teamwork and effort into holding space.
PVPers would love that, alliance holders, traders and industry alts would hate it. It would however be better for the game itself long term. So if the CSM is made up of mostly PVPers then the idea would be looked into and worked out and presented to CCP. The ones that would not benefit from such a change would discard it, either immediately or simply by covering it with bull**** and then 'forgetting' about it.
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Daveydweeb
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:09:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 29/04/2008 10:02:37 If the majority of the CSM's are from big space holding alliances then the chances of a request from the playerbase lowering the defensive posiblities and making it easier to attack sovereignity systems will probably be watered down.
Doubtful. You'll find that most sov-holding alliance members think that POS warfare is too easy for the defender, an attitude that I can certainly appreciate as someone who's been successful on both sides of that coin.
I've incapacitated defended cynojammers with a battleship gang, and killed dreadnoughts from the safety of a POS force field. I think you can probably guess which position I preferred.
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
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Posted - 2008.04.29 10:14:00 -
[30]
Edited by: The Economist on 29/04/2008 10:16:00 I wouldn't vote for any candidate using the CSM as some kind of personal soapbox from which to lobby CCP about their pet peeves with regard to game design and balance.
As far as I'm concerned the whole point of it is to provide a little transparency to the goings on within CCP and help avoid tinfoil-hattery on the epic scale of several well-known threadnaughts and perceived/imagined issues of the past few years. Not to give a select few some kind of direct channel to the devs with which to attempt to influence the direction and design of the game; which from the sounds of some of the candidates' forum utterances, some of them believe is the case.
Edit: just realised that this was directed at csm candidates but meh, I stand by my opinion and hope I'm not alone.
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