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Waxau
The Fated Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:58:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Pans Exual
Originally by: Zakgram
...These ships are so slow to move and align...
The Sin actually handles like a cruiser, with the agility bonus.
And even the other black ops warp as fast as cruisers (or BC perhaps). Dont forget, just cloak when you want to warp...get to about 2/5ths cloaked speed, and you're at your warp speed. 3 seconds to warp at max.
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Thanatos Black
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:25:00 -
[62]
Is there any hope even on the drawing board for these broke ships CCP or did we waste our time on alot ship skill requirements with no real use or future in the game.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:30:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Thanatos Black Is there any hope even on the drawing board for these broke ships CCP or did we waste our time on alot ship skill requirements with no real use or future in the game.
time wasted ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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disc drive
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Posted - 2008.05.13 22:00:00 -
[64]
are all black ops similary broken, or do they all have different levels of broken-ness. cause I cind of like my Panther the way it is, even if it is paper thin (for a BS atleast) and only got avarage DPS. tho going 340m/s cloaked in a BS with no speed mods is quite fun actualy.
anyways, what would be the worst and best (if you could call it that) Black Ops in thier current state?
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Waxau
The Fated Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.05.13 22:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: disc drive are all black ops similary broken, or do they all have different levels of broken-ness. cause I cind of like my Panther the way it is, even if it is paper thin (for a BS atleast) and only got avarage DPS. tho going 340m/s cloaked in a BS with no speed mods is quite fun actualy.
anyways, what would be the worst and best (if you could call it that) Black Ops in thier current state?
Personally (and most likely biased), i believe the widow is. Mainly due to the whole scan res penalty, and overall lock range, combined with the ECM range, and overall value of the ship dont match up.
But at the same time, id far prefer to be in a widow at 60km, than a pather at 10km, in the range of neuts, points, webs, and so on. So many downsides to each, and very few positive sides.
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Word
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Posted - 2008.05.14 02:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Depp Knight Locking onto stars and opening cyno, having a seperate fuel bay or decrease fuel by a **** load, and finally increase scan res or neglect the scan res penalty when fitting a cloak.
Yes, after spending all the isk, this is what I demand for a start. Nothing less. Be able to lock onto stars and jump independently of extra support, and use covert ops cloak at least, and carry enough fuel for a round trip.
If anyone thinks it should be some one trick pony, but mostly useless, then create another specialized ship to fill that role AT 15-20% of the cost!
I'm suspecting that this is just some BS way of sucking ppl into training up jump skills to start using capital ships.
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Thanatos Black
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Posted - 2008.05.14 23:57:00 -
[67]
Figure if we keep throwing ideas out there just maybe someone (CCP) will take notice. They idea of locking on to stars and creating their own jump portal is great also I like the idea of warping while cloaked with maybe a scan res reduction so they are not to overpowered. The fuel bay issue has just got to be addressed. Just with these small fixes alone maybe this ship can make back to becoming a useable ship and posibly find a role in the game for which it does not have what so ever currently.
TB
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Blk Mage
Gallente Rogue Chrome Angelz
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Posted - 2008.05.21 05:30:00 -
[68]
Why are so many people wanting to jump to stars?
I trained to use the covert cyno because I can fly Covert Ops and my corp wanted to get a couple of Black Ops together. In my research, one of the great things about the covert cyno seems to be that you can setup at a random point in the system and nobody sees you. If you could jump to a star, they'd just camp stars like they already do gates, and it would become pretty much useless.
-the 2 cents of a 2 year old character
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Garric Vor'g
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.21 12:40:00 -
[69]
Here's an idea I didn't see anyone mention:
1st make it cost 0 to activate the covert cyno, but then cost ?? for each ship that jumps to it.
Then: Role Bonus 50% reduction in cost for ships fitted with black ops jump drives, 50% increase to ships without black ops jump drives.
Make it so all jump capable ships can jump to it, with the draw-back being it can only jump 1 or 2 caps at a time, or multiple black ops ships.
CRAZED & INSANE
Originally by: Eva things that get said get translated by my brain into "German guy can see enemy. English guy has a point. Warp to American guy.
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Terazuk
Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:31:00 -
[70]
Yup the blackops need a serious rethink.
I'm particular to giving them a fuel bay for starters but then you have to give every jump capable ship one too... probably not entirely a bad thing.
Originally by: Dexton our completely missing the point. They are not supposed to be solopwnmobiles. They are not supposed to be the ultimate gang ship. They are supposed bring a very specialized role in very specialized situation.
They are supposed to open jump portals for medium sized gang and cloak and manuver out of harms way while the medium sized gang you just jump portalled in do their job.
To make sure you aren't just going around scouting for enemies and then jump portalling a gang on top of them you can't warp cloaked. To make sure you aren't just jump portalling all over eve you have small cargo so you need a hauler for fuel.
So all their "cons" are there for a good reason, to not make it a solopwnmobile but rather as a logistical aid.
This kind of stuff annoys me too.
A lot of us have spent years investing in this game emotionally and financially not including the months we have perhaps spent training for this ship alone. Do we not deserve more than this for our continued support?
I want a Black-Ops irregardless of how good or how bad it is. But I would prefer if I could perhaps do more than listen to what my gang mates are doing on vent, while I stay safe and cloaked in hostile territory.
It seems rather insulting that my main character, the character I have spent an ungodly amount of time developing, is, for the wont of something cool! relegated to ALT or NPC* status... pure support with no other desirably active role, than to just 'port in my buddies.
I don't log in for that... I play for fun and I want to fly 'fun' ships and I want to do 'fun' things. To be a glorified hauler is not why I fly combat ships despite it being a somewhat useful corollary at times.
Originally by: CCP Fendahl Black Ops
The Black Ops specialize in infiltration and covert operation. Equipped with a jump drive, they can jump short distances past enemy blockades. Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers and Force Recons (not Combat Recons) have been upgraded to support Covert Cynosural Field Generators. These new modules are advanced Cynosural Field Generators that cannot be detected and only Black Ops can lock on to. What makes the Black Ops in particular dangerous is that they can use miniaturized jump portal generators, Covert Jump Portal Generators, to sneak allied forces behind enemy lines. However the covert jump portal technology is rather limited compared to the Titan class jump portals and require support from the ships that jump through to work correctly. Covert jump portal generators can only bridge for ships with Jump Harmonics 2 or above. The covert tech 2 ships: Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers and Force Recons have been upgraded to this end. The resource consumption on the Black Ops jump drives and the Covert Jump Portal Generator is very high, so jump fuel logistics are a concern. Fortunately the Black Ops can also use ordinary jump gates and can thus save jump fuel for when it really matters.
Grade = U: Lacks application or direction, poorly thought out and/or has little relevance to what might have actually been useful. 10/10 for effort, please try again!
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:42:00 -
[71]
just keep sayin 3 things with me
1. Covert Cyno in Cyno jammed systems 2. Fuelbay for 6ly one way, 12 round trip, for you and 10 of your friends 3. Warp cloaked for the purpose of droppin in on gate camps etc
if the BO really opperated as a covert reconnisence vessal capable of actually doing something instead of ending up in a collectors show room, a slight touch up to individual ship stats would be all that was necessary
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Matrixcvd just keep sayin 3 things with me
1. Covert Cyno in Cyno jammed systems 2. Fuelbay for 6ly one way, 12 round trip, for you and 10 of your friends 3. Warp cloaked for the purpose of droppin in on gate camps etc
if the BO really opperated as a covert reconnisence vessal capable of actually doing something instead of ending up in a collectors show room, a slight touch up to individual ship stats would be all that was necessary
The lack of a bonus to cloak recalibration and sig resolution are game breaking too.
The bridge mechanic is stupid, it needs to be a means to move ships that can't otherwise move quickly if its to emulate the POS module--why would you waste time bridging some recons that can already warp cloaked? You can't hit the station service, do anything to hostile POS anyway--if you were planning on station camping the recons could have flown in on their own.
What needs to happen is to remove the arbitrary and counterproductive limit on jump drive harmonics and introduce a module that enables BO portaling. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Euriti
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:58:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Thanatos Black Is there any hope even on the drawing board for these broke ships CCP or did we waste our time on alot ship skill requirements with no real use or future in the game.
The Sin is horrible.
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Bodhisattvas
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.21 15:11:00 -
[74]
Decided to take my sin into 0.0 with the thought in mind of actually putting it to use. 16 jumps from high sec to 0.0 destination, this equated to 5 cyno jumps for my main and 50 or so for my cyno alt.
Problems encountered included, extra jumps incurred because even jumping from one system to the next system was further than 4 light year. Then the problem of 0.0 systems which had cyno jammers fitted and not knowing till my alt got into system and scanned for one, and then having to recalculate using the jump planner.
I used one of the jump planner web sites available and found when making a A to B jump plan comprised of multple cyno jumps, then if you decided to recalculate say third cyno jump in the route would actually change. Seems it works a bit like your average gps route finder where it only decides to think real hard on the first stage of route calculation then the rest of the trip is "oh it will do"
So as well as increasing jump range and allowing a fuel hangar would it be possible for ccp to implement a jump planner in game also giving it the ability to plot around pesky active cyno jammers ? Or as its a black ops type class ship why can't it just be allowed to ignore cyno jammers totally or negate their effect while in system ?
Sensor resolution suggestion is irrelevant as the combat aspect of these ships is a low priority. Seems alliances have it all their way for the best part with their cyno jammers etc so black ops should be the perfect choice for negating that.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.21 15:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Sensor resolution suggestion is irrelevant as the combat aspect of these ships is a low priority. Seems alliances have it all their way for the best part with their cyno jammers etc so black ops should be the perfect choice for negating that.
Oh please. Every cloak based ship enjoys the sig res & recal bonus. They were meant to be the combat ships fundamentally, the cloak & bridge part was just a gimmick thrown in there at the last minute and the lack of this bonus is a sign of rushed ships not intentional weakness.
By the way there is a in game jump tool, ctrl+backspace iirc, it isn't that great though. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.05.21 15:25:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Blk Mage Why are so many people wanting to jump to stars?
I trained to use the covert cyno because I can fly Covert Ops and my corp wanted to get a couple of Black Ops together. In my research, one of the great things about the covert cyno seems to be that you can setup at a random point in the system and nobody sees you. If you could jump to a star, they'd just camp stars like they already do gates, and it would become pretty much useless.
-the 2 cents of a 2 year old character
The basic reason is the supposed strength of the ship is it is able to jump a small (and keep in mind if you want it to be a round trip it's a very small) gang of covert ops and recon ships a short distance behind the lines, thus bybassing enemy gatecamps and defenses.
But the reality is people know SOEMTHING'S up because local lets you see them in system. You have to get at least ONE ship behind the lines also, and the ships in question are some of the BEST at bypassing gatecamps (it takes a well run gatecamp and at least a bit of luck to snag a covert ops frigate in a camp).
Being able to lock onto stars means your entry into the system is truly a surpise. Given you can just use a hauler full of fuel to dump recon ships behind the lines if it's to be a one way jump, having no pre warning of a gang of 10 or more recons and stealth bombers coming in means you have an opportunity to actually ambush mining ops, ratters and a whole host of other 0.0 denziens that normally you'd miss because people have the warning of "red in system" for quite a bit of time before the rest of the troops show up.
Could people potentialy camp stars? Sure - but that means an exta thing to camp. Most corps and alliances don't have the manpower to run many gatecamps effectively, thus the reason star clusters with a single entry point are so highly coveted - it allows them to concentrate their defenses. Suddenly the addition of other points of entry for reasonable sized gangs mean the ability to actually jump behind the lines with no warning becomes at least somewhat more useful.
Regardless of if someone sees the cov ops cyno, the fact that local screams hostiles in the system means people will be on their toes. It doesn't tank long at all to probe down an uncloaked Cov Ops frigate meaning the operation is still a relatively high risk one since you're stuck in place and can't move until the cyno finishes its cycle.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.21 16:25:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 21/05/2008 16:25:49 Issues with black ops are just too deep due to pvp being compleatly different nowadays.
But here, rather than talk about these black ops fix's which are the same as putting a bandage on a broken leg, can someone actually tell me a proper real world non-comedy scenario where these ships can actually be used?
Imo, the whole class needs to be scrapped and redesigned with real world pvp in mind
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Billion Isk Mission |
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