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Out of Curiosity - Why Bother?

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Author	Topic
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:29:00 - [1] So I mission in lowsec, and occasionally make the 5 system jump to 0.0 to do some ratting just to break the tedium. I want to make it clear at the start of this thread that I have no issues losing ships to piracy; the dangers of lowsec are worth it to me given the better ISK, LP and less crowded systems. I am confused by the point sometimes through. I have been ransomed a few times doing missions, which is actually sort of cool in a bizarre way (not that I would sign up for it, buy hey). Ransoming is piracy in the traditional sense; you have plunder, I try and take your plunder preferably via your surrender. Anyway, the other day I was heading back home and some guy in an Absolution jumps my Drake just outside a gate. It might have been a closer fight had I been paying more attention, but I was caught with my pants down and was at 75% shields before I activated my hardeners and returned fire. Probably still would have lost, but given that as it was I got him 2/3 through his armor it would have been close. Anyway, I digress. My Drake was T2 fit, nothing special. I would have paid 20-30 mil to try and avoid the hassle of rebuilding it, but I'm sure any modules that survived are worth basically nothing (the modules are a grand total of ~15m brand new) the main cost of the ship is the rigs. So what was the point in the destruction? Why not try to make some money with Piracy instead of just randomly blowing up your effective payday in favor of 2-3m in modules that you have to go and resell? Again, not particularly upset about it; not that much more expensive for me than a ransom for 30m, but a little confused about why someone would bother when they could make money instead. Maybe PvPers wouldn't need to run missions on the side so much if they were better at the piracy part. Any comments ffrom the pirate nation?
CetusOfAsuran GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:36:00 - [2] From what i am learning alot of peeps are killmail **** and some corps give rewards for each killmail effectively the mail is the payday everything else is just a bonus. Another note i have picked up is sometimes you have friends, ransoming could be the 10secs difference between the kill or being killed. 30mil isnt a great deal either really. just my thoughts
KrazyTaco Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:39:00 - [3] Though being able to ransom is ideal, it is often times far to risky. Since it appears you were on a gate when the pirate did this, he was not only in a compromising position (any Joe Beans could have jumped in and engaged him) but he was also probably taking sentry fire. When you have a close fight, and the odds are stacked against you like above, the time it takes to ransom is often far to risky unfortunately. That's why when pirates do ransom you, they typically give you 60 seconds tops to transfer the ransom.
Nathan Harrow Caldari Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:40:00 - [4] sometimes kill mails can be a kind of "right of initiation" - a first fair one on one solo kill for instance. Other than that a lot of people dont do it for the ISK but rather the thrill of the fight and the adrenaline rush and coming out at the end intact victorious over your enemy. I my personal opinion, ISK doesnt exactly get the blood running, but a 1 on 1 fight to the death does - granted it sounds like you just got ganked, but if you are the attacker, you can still get a great rush out of it. Did you try and offer the pirate a ransom? - If your that bothered about ship destruction and they havent convod you by the time your coming out of armour - always worth throwing them a convo and seeing what happens. If they ignore you, you ineveitably die, but they may think about it and let you get away with your ship.
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:47:00 - [5] Originally by: CetusOfAsuran From what i am learning alot of peeps are killmail **** and some corps give rewards for each killmail effectively the mail is the payday everything else is just a bonus. That makes a little more sense.
Ordon Gundar Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:50:00 - [6] Originally by: CetusOfAsuran 30mil isnt a great deal either really. Isnt it? So just how much money do you make pirating PER KILL then? What would you say was worth it? To be honest, you can buy quite a lot with 30 mil. I would have thought that 30 mil just for jumping on a gate ship was a pretty good, quick pay-off. I also cant really see the point in destroying ships for nothing when pirating. If you want adrenaline, take the ransom AND destroy the ship! "Stay Small..Fly Fast..Keep Your Ship" - Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Nathan Harrow sometimes kill mails can be a kind of "right of initiation" - a first fair one on one solo kill for instance. I can see that too, but given that he was in an Absolution, it seems odd that it would be his first solo kill. Originally by: Nathan Harrow Other than that a lot of people dont do it for the ISK but rather the thrill of the fight and the adrenaline rush and coming out at the end intact victorious over your enemy. I my personal opinion, ISK doesnt exactly get the blood running, but a 1 on 1 fight to the death does - granted it sounds like you just got ganked, but if you are the attacker, you can still get a great rush out of it. Well obviously I don't get the rush, as I don't PvP myself, but is the rush still there when going 1v1 with a ship weaker than your own? I mean Command Ship vs Battlecruiser regardless of fit is likely to be less than challenging unless there is a huge gap in skills. Originally by: Nathan Harrow Did you try and offer the pirate a ransom? - If your that bothered about ship destruction and they havent convod you by the time your coming out of armour - always worth throwing them a convo and seeing what happens. If they ignore you, you ineveitably die, but they may think about it and let you get away with your ship. I'm not that bothered; it's about the same ISK cost to me either way. I was just trying to understand to motive for them not to ransom, since it seems much more profitable. And no, I didn't bother trying to convo him myself. 1) The fight only lasted about 30 seconds 2)I figured if he was interested in ransom he would have said so...if he wants to kill me anyway I figure I'll just keep firing in hopes of giving him a repair bill :)
Nathan Harrow Caldari Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:01:00 - [8] Ship class isnt everything, a well trained cruiser pilot can kill a average BS pilot no probs if he knows what he's doing. To an extent there is always an unknown factor whenever you enter pvp. Just cos he has a better ship doesnt mean he knows how to fly it. To him an abso vs Drake might have been a fight that only slightly was in his favour - from the sound of it, considering you only started firing at 75% shields and nearly got through his armour, this is probably the case. More than likely though, he was hopping systems looking for a gank and after the killmail only
z0de Gallente The Bastards	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:12:00 - [9] Sometimes it just fun to watch things explode. Nothing personal unless you ****ed him off at some point, did you know your killer?
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:18:00 - [10] Originally by: z0de Sometimes it just fun to watch things explode. Nothing personal unless you ****ed him off at some point, did you know your killer? I do now :) No not that I'm aware of. Given that he was alone in a low traffic system, I have to think it was just a target of opportunity. @Nathan It is true I did way more damage than I expected to, especially given the circumstances. And it's true, I could have been a 35m SP character and been an even tougher nut. An yeah, I guess I never factored in the whole kill mail culture; it's a little foreign to me. Thanks to everyone for their reasonable replies BTW; I have never posted here and I was a bit worried the replies would consist of a lot of "lol carebear" type of nonsense :) I have to say that I do occasionally think about becoming a pirate...mainly so I can say Yarr a lot

Savesti Kyrsst Minmatar White-Noise Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:30:00 - [11] 1) Command Ship vs Battlecruiser + Sentries sounds like a fair fight to me 2) Its worth killing lots of people just for the ones that drop faction or deadspace loot _
Modrak Vseth Veto.	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:36:00 - [12] There could of been many factors, especially since you were on a gate. 1. You could of had help nearby and holding you while you stalled on a ransom could've ended up badly for him. 2. He could've been low on ammo and/or cap and couldn't risk having to put extra damage on you if you decided not to pay up but your shields had a chance to regen, especially since he was probably taking gate fire. 3. He may of been afraid you were going to make it back to the gate and jump. Just 3 of the possibilities. Or, it could be he just wanted to see you blow up.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:39:00 - [13] If he was down to 33% armor (in an armor-tanking ship) it sounds like he was in serious trouble. I doubt he wanted to stop shooting and open a convo for a minute or more while sentry guns were eating his tank and your friends were fleeting up to come gank him. Don't be silly. If you wanted to be ransomed offer ransom. ---------------- I'm looking for a good corp to join.
Redglare's Demise Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:39:00 - [14] As the above poster mentioned, he would have sentries shooting him, tipping the fight to be more even. If you are getting shot up by sentries, trying to get through a large tank (a rigged drake..), unaware if the system is safe, losing armor by the second... you want to kill the target as fast as possible, scoop the loot and get the f*ck out!
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.05.01 16:51:00 - [15] Isk means nothing to me tbh, to get isk i'll high sec gank for it. So ransoming some crappy drake would be a bit crap tbh. I'd much rather see you blow up. :)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:23:00 - [16] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/05/2008 17:23:33 Sentry aggro+solo+return fire=no ransom. Pop, loot, and scoot basically. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Gustav Blackknight THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:24:00 - [17] Because of the dynamics of lowsec travel, as well as the dynamics of 0.0 blobfare, lowsec piracy has a tendancy to be more comparable to hunting than what one might call pure piracy for profit. Ancient Culures hunted for survival, however today a large portion off todays hunting is for sport. Lowsec piracy is similar. We don't just do it because we see it as the easiest way to isk, infact its not. We do get some nice loot to provide suplimental income and many pirates are independently wealthy. We do it for the thrill of the kill. Yeah some people say "how do you find ganking 1 ship with 20 fun." Well the 1 ship ganks are the "funding" kills, and they're certainly still more fun than blagfests or staring at poses. However the real thrill is when events like getting blobed by 25 when theres only 4 of you and yet still taking out 4 ships and loosing only 2.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:38:00 - [18] My observation when trying to ransom T1 ships is that the victim normally got the "I am getting it all back on insurance, so **** you!" attitude. It is much easier to just kill the ship and ransom the Pod. we are recruiting!
Reptar Dragon THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:49:00 - [19] That was one of our pilots. A. It wasn't going to be a close fight. He doesn't activate reps until he thinks you can actually do something to him. B. TFS doesn't ransom ships. C. Thanks for the PR.
Krall Havoc Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:52:00 - [20] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/05/2008 17:23:33 Sentry aggro... If Sentry Aggro is determining your decisions in low sec, you are doing something wrong. To the opp, if you want a ransom you'd better yell in local, most of the time T1 ships are just for farming kill mails. I typically don't ransom anything other than faction and command ships.

DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:21:00 - [21] Edited by: DubanFP on 01/05/2008 18:22:36 Originally by: Nathan Harrow Did you try and offer the pirate a ransom? - If your that bothered about ship destruction and they havent convod you by the time your coming out of armour - always worth throwing them a convo and seeing what happens. If they ignore you, you ineveitably die, but they may think about it and let you get away with your ship. That's INCREADIBLY bad advice. It's just asking for them to take your isk and still kill you anyways. Never be the first to offer a ransom on your own ship. Anyways most pirates don't ransom simply because it's too risky that either you might just stall to get your friends here to attack him, or that a 3rd pirate might come along and kill both of you. _______________ ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Krall Havoc Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/05/2008 17:23:33 Sentry aggro... If Sentry Aggro is determining your decisions in low sec, you are doing something wrong. To the opp, if you want a ransom you'd better yell in local, most of the time T1 ships are just for farming kill mails. I typically don't ransom anything other than faction and command ships. Ahahahahahahahaha. Huh? Ahahahahahahahahaha I'll be sure and let you know <chuckle> when I'm doing something right! Ahahahahahahahaha "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Lona Lwyd	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:23:00 - [23] Edited by: Lona Lwyd on 01/05/2008 18:24:29 Originally by: Krall Havoc Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/05/2008 17:23:33 Sentry aggro... If Sentry Aggro is determining your decisions in low sec, you are doing something wrong. UR DUMB Not every one gate camps in blobs ( the ones that actually care about having fun and profit, that is)
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Reptar Dragon That was one of our pilots. A. It wasn't going to be a close fight. He doesn't activate reps until he thinks you can actually do something to him. B. TFS doesn't ransom ships. C. Thanks for the PR. A. Wondered why I tore through his armor so fast, but I thought hey, who knows how people fit their ships. B. Why not out of curiosity? Several people have posited theories here, but from the horses mouth so to speak. C. Welcome
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Inertial My observation when trying to ransom T1 ships is that the victim normally got the "I am getting it all back on insurance, so **** you!" attitude. It is much easier to just kill the ship and ransom the Pod. Well with three rigs at 15m a piece the insurance pays for only so much of the loss. Plus the time and aggravation of buying a new ship and fittings.
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:34:00 - [26] Edited by: Verrain Ravenlark on 01/05/2008 18:34:30 Originally by: Krall Havoc Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 01/05/2008 17:23:33 Sentry aggro... If Sentry Aggro is determining your decisions in low sec, you are doing something wrong. To the opp, if you want a ransom you'd better yell in local, most of the time T1 ships are just for farming kill mails. I typically don't ransom anything other than faction and command ships. Good to know :) Edit: It's funny that I might have been safer in my Nighthawk :)
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:38:00 - [27] There was a question like this asked some weeks ago (can't find the thread). But the common responses (posted by pirates themselves) were that they aren't interested in isk, but rather "lulz" and the "squishy pod sound". Basically they want the killmail for both your ship and pod. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Verrain Ravenlark Originally by: Inertial My observation when trying to ransom T1 ships is that the victim normally got the "I am getting it all back on insurance, so **** you!" attitude. It is much easier to just kill the ship and ransom the Pod. Well with three rigs at 15m a piece the insurance pays for only so much of the loss. Plus the time and aggravation of buying a new ship and fittings. Well, normally you don't got any way to know what somone fits when you are flying a PVP fitted ship, and most people (at least 70% perhaps 90%) got no idea how to fit their ships. we are recruiting!
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Exlegion There was a question like this asked some weeks ago (can't find the thread). But the common responses (posted by pirates themselves) were that they aren't interested in isk, but rather "lulz" and the "squishy pod sound". Basically they want the killmail for both your ship and pod. They didn't get the pod I guess whatever makes people happy; I was just trying to understand.
Verrain Ravenlark	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Inertial Well, normally you don't got any way to know what somone fits when you are flying a PVP fitted ship, and most people (at least 70% perhaps 90%) got no idea how to fit their ships. True. I'm flying one of the most cookie cutter ships in the game right now and I still died a few times getting it right.

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