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Boost demand immediate action from SCC!

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Author	Topic
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.04 22:19:00 - [31] This is ridiculous. Why should I have to stay in outlaw space? Besides saving our asterod belts from extermination, I also participate in other, legal activities that benefit the Caldari State, which raises my security status enough to allow me to safely stay in CONCORD-controlled systems. As far as I'm concerned, saving the belts in high-security systems is a noble act, and if the authorities consider it a crime, I will accept the punishment, but I do not wish for other people (namely, my insurance company) to be hurt because of my "crimes", and I don't see the logic behind punishing them for acts they didn't commit, either.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.04 22:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Magnus Nordir This is ridiculous. Why should I have to stay in outlaw space? Besides saving our asterod belts from extermination, I also participate in other, legal activities that benefit the Caldari State, which raises my security status enough to allow me to safely stay in CONCORD-controlled systems. As far as I'm concerned, saving the belts in high-security systems is a noble act, and if the authorities consider it a crime, I will accept the punishment, but I do not wish for other people (namely, my insurance company) to be hurt because of my "crimes", and I don't see the logic behind punishing them for acts they didn't commit, either. Again I wonder if you are actually reading my replies. It is not me who punishes insurance companies, it is you, and i hate to do the same mathematical argumentation all over again to prove. So please see my other reply, re-read it, and think on it for a moment before you reply again.
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.04 22:35:00 - [33] Financial details are irrelevant, and to be honest I wouldn't have anything against it if the insurance people simply added a clause to their contracts (not retroactive, naturally) that would state they don't pay for concorded ships, but what you're proposing amounts to restriction of personal and corporate liberty of choice and thought.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.04 22:42:00 - [34] Originally by: Magnus Nordir Financial details are irrelevant, and to be honest I wouldn't have anything against it if the insurance people simply added a clause to their contracts (not retroactive, naturally) that would state they don't pay for concorded ships, but what you're proposing amounts to restriction of personal and corporate liberty of choice and thought. Tell me, because i seem to have forgot, what am I proposing other than stopping insurance payouts for criminal acts ( which could be solved by using one of those clauses you mention )
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.04 22:55:00 - [35] You're "demanding immediate action from SCC".
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Amaandia Originally by: Sakura Nihil Originally by: Amaandia Free-thinking people that violates the law, even if fully aware, are called... Criminals, and yes I do propose that those should be discriminated by all means. So, in short, CONCORD are "the good guys", who everyone should support because they enforce the laws. Might makes right, after all, yea? How sickening. As i said, stay out in outlaw space and you wont have to be around people with this oppinion. I choose to argue with people like yourself, in the vain attempt that I might get others to understand why the nations are obsolete, and CONCORD a menace. If I convince even one capsuleer to take their security and future into their own hands, it'll have been worth my time.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.05 15:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Magnus Nordir You're "demanding immediate action from SCC". Demand and proposition is 2 very diffirent things.
mtlcop	Posted - 2008.05.05 18:37:00 - [38] 1 to 8 needs to be more proactive have the ships at the belts if some one locks a player attack maybe 7 to 5 is fine I belive but then agin I just started flying and sit on a field with a industrial I just got why becouse one load payed for the ship 2 loads pays for another
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:02:00 - [39] Originally by: Amaandia Originally by: Magnus Nordir You're "demanding immediate action from SCC". Demand and proposition is 2 very diffirent things. Attention, direct quote from your message title: "Boost [b]demand[/] immediate action from SCC!" ***************************** Art is a noble mission beyond every temporary commitment, and as such obliges one to fanatism.
Able Citizen Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:29:00 - [40] Well, I don't disagree with Amaandia's overarching theme here and I must wonder why Pend Insurance hasn't changed their underwriting to exclude payment of a claim upon the insured's criminal acts. It is well within their right to do so. I begrudgingly agree with Ms. Nihil's point, albeit spoken poorly, that ultimately, the individual pod pilot must remain as the final arbiter of what is right and wrong. I guess I would encourage individuals to boycott Pend Insurance and place money in trust for any of their losses. Who needs Pend Insurance anyway? They are just another corporate oligarchy. Especially those of us that fly advanced ships; Pend is horribly outdated and cannot keep up with the times.

Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:53:00 - [41] Edited by: Amaandia on 05/05/2008 20:56:04 Originally by: Magnus Nordir Originally by: Amaandia Originally by: Magnus Nordir You're "demanding immediate action from SCC". Demand and proposition is 2 very diffirent things. Attention, direct quote from your message title: "Boost [b]demand[/] immediate action from SCC!" I hate for this to turn into a personal duel between the two of us, so we lose focus on the real discussion. I am well aware of what i said to begin with, but you were the one to confuse demanding action with proposing changes. I dont propose any changes, i demand them, immidietly. Now that cant be so hard to misunderstand. There are various changes that could be made. One could be to cut away the entire insurance payouts for shiplosses due to criminal acts. This could be done with the special clauses you mentioned earlier. Another idea could be to update insurance payout to the victims, as suggested by another gentleman. I agree with him, insurance on hulks are redicoulous. A third, but drastic change, could be to just disband CONCORD and ita agencies, as they are clearly serving their own purposes, than doing what they are supposed to, or simply the 4 empires could demand the resignation of the entire CONCORD board, and put some new and fresh forces into play that actually give a damn about the law. There are many possibilies, that all share the same purpose of closing the loophole, and it is exactly that we demand.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:19:00 - [42] I probably shouldnt be talking right now, given its been a long day and im dog tired... But I think a couple of people have good points. If anyone was seriously bothered about stopping Pirate activity, of any variety, then the loophole should indeed be closed. Someone mentioned something to do with Galactic Security Status, and I think that sounds like a good idea. Really I have to say I do side with the miners, because Pirates of any variety deserve to be strung up. And I know that CONCORD doesnt pretend to do anything other than that which it does, but I would agree that it seems a little unbalanced. Hardly to 'Protect and Serve'. Anyway, given the record so far I've probably jsut **ed at least one person off. But right now they can just do me a favour and load themselves into one of my 125mm's, cos its too damn late for all that... ************************** "For Honour and Glory."
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.05.06 02:49:00 - [43] Thank you for your invitation for posting on here and showing me this post. Although I think it's a little too role playee for my tastes I do recognize the issue of suicide ganking in high sec space. The issue I see it is there is too much reward for the known risk. This is unlike all other aspects of the game. In DED Space, the risk is known 1/10 very low, reward very low, 10/10 Extreme Risk, Very high reward. Missions are the same, the higher the level the more risk the more reward. In the case of suicide ganking the risk is known up frount, the ganker will know they will lose their 125mil fitted battle ship, but get paid 25-30mil on default insurance. With a risk of possibly recovering 35-50% of the mods. The Risk for ganking a hauler is probably only 60-70mil, also a the risk comes in the form of a global counter 15 minutes of time. And lastly a decrease in security status that ratting for an hour will recover. This risk is know, what is unknown is the reward. Will those BPOs drop? Will those officer mods drop? Will all that Megacrate drop? It's been said that 50% chance of a Can drops. So if you have 100mil in each can, and have 3 cans that's minimal 100mil, max 200mil. That's it, at most 70mil risk for a at minimal 100mil reward. Who WOULDN'T take those odds? The issue isn't really the fact suicide ganking happens it's the fact the Reward is by far more then the Risk. Honestly everyone is out to make a quick ISK here and there, and the fact that a hauler can't go 10 jumps without being scanned 6 times by 6 different gate camps by 6 different corps/alliance shows there is a problem. Regardless of the protection or how large or small a corp is, the numbers speak for themselves. The second something becomes unbalanced in the game it needs to be fixed. Suicide ganking is too heavily weighted in favor of the ganker in terms of Reward. People play EVE to have fun and I would hope some of that fun is to be challenged. If you want to play mindless and have things come easy, then I feel sorry for you, and maybe you should go play WOW. Amarr for Life
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 09:36:00 - [44] (( HELLO?! This is an RP thread in the Rp forum! Why are people posting OOC? I suggest you read where you are posting! And I would suggest someone report them...))
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Fox Vulcan (( HELLO?! This is an RP thread in the Rp forum! Why are people posting OOC? I suggest you read where you are posting! And I would suggest someone report them...)) (( some of it is my fault im afraid, looked at other threads, and suggested some of the people who had constructive ideas to look at this thread. I could have reminded them that is in a character forum. ))
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Fox Vulcan I probably shouldnt be talking right now, given its been a long day and im dog tired... But I think a couple of people have good points. If anyone was seriously bothered about stopping Pirate activity, of any variety, then the loophole should indeed be closed. Someone mentioned something to do with Galactic Security Status, and I think that sounds like a good idea. Really I have to say I do side with the miners, because Pirates of any variety deserve to be strung up. And I know that CONCORD doesnt pretend to do anything other than that which it does, but I would agree that it seems a little unbalanced. Hardly to 'Protect and Serve'. Anyway, given the record so far I've probably jsut ****ed at least one person off. But right now they can just do me a favour and load themselves into one of my 125mm's, cos its too damn late for all that... Space is a large area, and what pirates do on the outer rims are not really my concerns, nor should it be of concern to CONCORD, as obviously they cant even function properly in what area of space they are supposed to control. My ideas and demands are drastic, but I really believe that it is time for drastic changes. Currently we let pirates dictate security in Empire space. If you are not a pirate, is this really a situation thats acceptable ? Either CONCORD, DED, SCC starts getting their act together, or we simply should disband them.
Sven Pollick	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:29:00 - [47] Edited by: Sven Pollick on 06/05/2008 12:30:47 If things are becoming a problem, why not simply move to a different region? I, myself, have been to several regions including Lonetrek, The Citadel, the Forge, Sinq Laison, and several others. Why not find a little piece of space that you feel secure in? It's what I've done, as an independent hauler. If you feel unsafe in whatever region you're in, then the cost-effective, simple solution would be to, simply-put, move. I've suffered some losses along the way. Several were in the same system, with uninsured ships. Did I fret? No, as I knew the consequences of traveling through that particular system. As you have now learned that the system you're in, while being CONCORD-controlled, is unsafe, regardless. It has also given me a goal to strive for. Perhaps you could give your current region of the Galaxy a break, take a step back, and start somewhere else?
mtlcop	Posted - 2008.05.06 12:59:00 - [48] I belive that the best way to guard something is to be both proactive and reactive Secure Commerce Commision need to place guards at the belts if that is whats needed to make them safe in what is belived to be safe space. are alest in 1 to .7 space
Ravin Abai Amarr Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:13:00 - [49] You might as well demand an end to poverty, hunger and war while you're at it. Weaklings like you and your alliance make me sick. It's only a matter of time until your pathetic band of nancies disbands.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 13:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Ravin Abai You might as well demand an end to poverty, hunger and war while you're at it. Weaklings like you and your alliance make me sick. It's only a matter of time until your pathetic band of nancies disbands. I had thought of writing a whole long statement about such nonesense from pilots such as you, but I am just gonna ignore you as you dont bring any constructive ideas to the table anyways.

SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.05.06 14:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Amaandia Edited by: Amaandia on 06/05/2008 10:51:43 Originally by: Fox Vulcan (( HELLO?! This is an RP thread in the Rp forum! Why are people posting OOC? I suggest you read where you are posting! And I would suggest someone report them...)) (( some of it is my fault im afraid, looked at other threads, and suggested some of the people who had constructive ideas to look at this thread. I could have reminded them that this is an in-character forum. )) (( Yes you could have, I read most of the posts and didn't consider the location, sorry for those who read the post. )) Amarr for Life
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.06 14:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Amaandia Originally by: Ravin Abai You might as well demand an end to poverty, hunger and war while you're at it. Weaklings like you and your alliance make me sick. It's only a matter of time until your pathetic band of nancies disbands. I had thought of writing a whole long statement about such nonesense from pilots such as you, but I am just gonna ignore you as you dont bring any constructive ideas to the table anyways. And you pathetic miners have yet to respond to the real reason why people hate you so much: You're destroying our natural heritage of the asteroid belts. Just go back to mining planets if that's what you're in it for. ***************************** Art is a noble mission beyond every temporary commitment, and as such obliges one to fanatism.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 14:36:00 - [53] Originally by: Magnus Nordir Originally by: Amaandia Originally by: Ravin Abai You might as well demand an end to poverty, hunger and war while you're at it. Weaklings like you and your alliance make me sick. It's only a matter of time until your pathetic band of nancies disbands. I had thought of writing a whole long statement about such nonesense from pilots such as you, but I am just gonna ignore you as you dont bring any constructive ideas to the table anyways. And you pathetic miners have yet to respond to the real reason why people hate you so much: You're destroying our natural heritage of the asteroid belts. Just go back to mining planets if that's what you're in it for. OK listen carefully, I have tried t explain this to you many time in this thread, but seems you have a very thick skull, so ill try again. This is not just a miners problem. It goes for haulers and other kinds of normal spacetraveling, and those dont destroy your pretty belts now do they. Besides, you probably would be stuck on a planetside if it werent for independant miners.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 15:29:00 - [54] Nordir, without the miners society as we know it wouldnt exist. Without Veldspar and the other minerals they mine we wouldnt be capsuleers, the gates would not exist, we would all be stuck where we all began, impoverished and confined. I know you seem to think you are a superior being or something, but your intellect is obviously a few cannonades short of a barrage, as we say in the Navy. I stand in defense of another sect of society that has to do a thankless job, and put up with arrogance like this.
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 16:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Fox Vulcan Nordir, I know you seem to think you are a superior being or something, but your intellect is obviously a few cannonades short of a barrage, as we say in the Navy. As each day passes my feelings for Gallente Navy ways grows substantially.
Fox Vulcan Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.06 18:01:00 - [56] Is that meant in a good way or a bad way? -grins slightly- **************************** "For Honour and Glory."
Amaandia Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2008.05.06 18:13:00 - [57] As I consider many gallenteans to be friends, you can take it as positive.
Dierdra Vaal Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.05.07 17:36:00 - [58] I believe insurance should not be paid on losses where CONCORD is among the killers. This allows determined players still to do suicide ganks, which I feel shouldnt be entirely removed, while not making the cost of a suicide kill trivial. Recruitment Director :: EVE University DV for CSM
Kitoba Minmatar Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:06:00 - [59] Edited by: Kitoba on 07/05/2008 18:06:41 Originally by: Dierdra Vaal This allows determined players still to do suicide ganks, which I feel shouldnt be entirely removed, while not making the cost of a suicide kill trivial. It's strange to see someone referring to criminals as "determined players": How did you get that perspective, and can you elaborate on it?
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:18:00 - [60] Originally by: Kitoba It's strange to see someone referring to criminals as "determined players": How did you get that perspective, and can you elaborate on it? I think the meaning might be that criminals looking for a quick profit will be somewhat deterred, while those that are willing to sacrifice a lot of ISK to settle a grudge will still be able to. Of course, I personally think that it is abominable to see any sort of pirate attacks in highsec -- well, I am not a fan of them in lowsec, either -- but I suppose this is the best one can do. CONCORD is not omnipotent and omnipresent, after all -- and sometimes they seem to have a distinct lack of will in punishing some crimes. ________________________________ This is not a signature.

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