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Dyvim Slorm
Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.03 13:48:00 -
[1]
As a long time player (since Eve went retail) IÆve noticed a steady decline in the Eve Forums, to the point now where I rarely look at them.
Most threads now seem to be getting either trolled, or filled with pointless postings (e.g. ibtl, first, second etc) by alts.
I have a couple of suggestions which may help to correct the problem and was wondering what the CSM candidates think.
1/ More rapid and/or better moderation.
2/ No posting by alts. The account holder designates a character as their main, if they wish to change it to another character then there is a delay before they can (say 72 hours).
So, what do you think?
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Dyvim Slorm
Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.03 13:48:00 -
[2]
As a long time player (since Eve went retail) IÆve noticed a steady decline in the Eve Forums, to the point now where I rarely look at them.
Most threads now seem to be getting either trolled, or filled with pointless postings (e.g. ibtl, first, second etc) by alts.
I have a couple of suggestions which may help to correct the problem and was wondering what the CSM candidates think.
1/ More rapid and/or better moderation.
2/ No posting by alts. The account holder designates a character as their main, if they wish to change it to another character then there is a delay before they can (say 72 hours).
So, what do you think?
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:05:00 -
[3]
I was discussing this very with Ben this morning, at the US timezone discussion.
It is a problem, and i think it would be most interesting with the second suggestion. I think it would cause a major uproar, but i think it would benefit the forums in the long run.
As for moderation, the forum mods aren't exactly known for being logical in their decisions(Sorry), so i prefer self-moderation trough things like point number 2. But there will be need for moderation, and when that happens, it should be more rapid. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dyvim Slorm As a long time player (since Eve went retail) IÆve noticed a steady decline in the Eve Forums, to the point now where I rarely look at them.
Most threads now seem to be getting either trolled, or filled with pointless postings (e.g. ibtl, first, second etc) by alts.
I have a couple of suggestions which may help to correct the problem and was wondering what the CSM candidates think.
1/ More rapid and/or better moderation.
2/ No posting by alts. The account holder designates a character as their main, if they wish to change it to another character then there is a delay before they can (say 72 hours).
So, what do you think?
I think that denying ppls right to voice an opinion either on a alt for anonymity or a main is a step in the wrong direction. Although i do agree that content is something that should be looked at on a case by case basis.
Id also like to hear candidates views on this subject. |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:18:00 -
[5]
Personally, I would have no objections at all to having a designated "main" flag on my forum name. Most people already have this - in effect - as alts generally are easily identifiable though this is not 100% the case all the time.
I can see the uproar this would cause, but perhaps the loudest people making the uproar are those that use their alts to make posts they would not want to be identified with?
There is also the consideration that alst are not necessarily the secondary characters on a main account, they could belong to dedicated accounts. How will that be overcome?
While I have no objection to movement along those lines, I think it might be a bit of overkill causing massive socio-political issues, while swifter moderation that includes better post quality checks (more word content etc) could be more effective.
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Dyvim Slorm
Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: lecrotta
I think that denying ppls right to voice an opinion either on a alt for anonymity or a main is a step in the wrong direction. Although i do agree that content is something that should be looked at on a case by case basis.
Id also like to hear candidates views on this subject.
I agree with you if a moderation approach is taken, as it's at best subjective or in some cases non existent.
Personally I prefer my second suggestion as this does not remove anyone's right to express an opinion, but the delay would help to alleviate much of the current abuse of the forums. |
MongWen
Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.05.03 14:34:00 -
[7]
I donÆt think we as players should go too much into how CCP operates its moderation staff, though sometimes they should be allot better.
And flagging the main on a account can be a way in the right direction, and if changes like this goes into the affect we will see a lot of people expressing their negative views on it.
As for me I post with my main on the forums, since posting with a alt is like not posting at all.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.03 16:28:00 -
[8]
I'm actually going to voice a vote of confidence for current Eve Online forum moderation policies/rules/etc. I think the rules have been reformed in a very sensible way, the removal of the auto-ban 10 offenses thing was long overdue, and coupled with the easier temp bans for spamming/minor irritating offenses and the report tool to flag bad behaviour, its an entirely better environment than it was even a year ago.
The professional forum moderation today does have a couple of teething issues (events/igs/roleplay/non-roleplay stuff has some rough edges for example) - but on the whole I'm very impressed with how its developed. The recent decision to outlaw thread spam like "signed/ibtl/tldr/begging for stuff" etc was also long overdue and will lead to a better climate in the community.
Now, with regard to the alt/main situation as Max says, there is an issue with people just having multiple accounts and posting with multiple mains and nothing is really gained by flagging a main.
I'm inclined to think that we've ALL got responsibility on the issue to simply give credit where its due and respond with respect and civility where people do stand on the reputation of an established character with posting history and in game history.
If I'm responding to a poster that I can tie to the reputation in Eve (look up their employment history/alliance/corp affiliation's/bio) I'm nearly always going to treat them with more trust and understanding than a poster using an anonymous alt with no background or record. I liken it to the difference between a mutual acquaintance introduced and spoken for by friends/work mates and complete strangers.
If we all did a little more positive discrimination on the respect we pay to people who are evidently "posting with their mains" - we can encourage people to do this if they want to be taken seriously on public discussion.
And as for "alt's" / "brand new characters with no traceable story" - I think we'd all be better off if we realized we're under absolutely no obligation to respond to people using the cloak of anonymity to mask their affiliations and we generally shouldn't be doing it.
I'd like to believe we could all as a community foster a climate/understanding on these forums where people come to realize they will not be taken seriously as a rule unless they "post with their main" - ie, register opinions from an identity with history and accountability.
But I do believe this is something WE have to encourage as players by our actions and preferences - I don't think its something that can be imposed by moderation systems in and of themselves. Sure posts can be "reported" - obviously alt spam/trolling can be punished. But ultimately we as players just need to control ourselves and start treating people posting on their mains more seriously than we treat nonsense alt posting.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dyvim Slorm
2/ No posting by alts. The account holder designates a character as their main, if they wish to change it to another character then there is a delay before they can (say 72 hours).
Dicey question.
On one side some people would want to distance the in game character from the forum poster so not to involve character/corp/alliance in question regarding the "general discussion" or the "game development" forums.
On the other side I recall a poster tranquilly stating that he posting in the same thread with 2 different characters to get a more heated discussion.
So the idea of a 72 hours timer between changing postin characters seem good. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So the idea of a 72 hours timer between changing postin characters seem good.
Again it punishes those posting with "alts" from the same account. But lets people use characters from multiple accounts as effective "alts" nonetheless with no penalty.
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Nofonno
Amarr Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:18:00 -
[11]
I'd second the vote of confidence for the current level of CCP forum moderation, just as Jade did. However, to answer your points:
- In my opinion this is not the solution; the mods are people too, you know However, I would vote for stricter punishment for forum rules violation.
- This is tricky -- how do you separate alts within an account and within several accouts ownwed by a single person?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.03 17:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So the idea of a 72 hours timer between changing posting characters seem good.
Again it punishes those posting with "alts" from the same account. But lets people use characters from multiple accounts as effective "alts" nonetheless with no penalty.
I know, but you can get a better solution to reduce the number of people that like to weaken an argument posting like a idiot supporting that argument?
Reading the forum a lot I sometime wonder if some people is serious when he post some suggestion or is in reality trying to support the opposite position creating weak and excessive posts with an alt. |
TornSoul
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.03 18:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dyvim Slorm As a long time player (since Eve went retail) IÆve noticed a steady decline in the Eve Forums, to the point now where I rarely look at them.
Most threads now seem to be getting either trolled, or filled with pointless postings (e.g. ibtl, first, second etc) by alts.
I'm a long time player as well (since beta), and I agree with your observation about the forums.
The last 2-3 years have been particular bad (it was quite enjoyable, most of the time, before that)
The forum mod's and rules have recently undergone changes, to the better. And the effects are slowly starting to show.
However, my *personal* view is that it's far from enough. Much much "harsher" moderation is needed imo.
By that I mean for example, 1-7 day bans for posting 1 liner drivel posts (1 day first time, and then increasing)
It's sad, but banning (removing) offending people is the only truly effective way of keeping a forum "clean".
I emphazied that this was my *personal* view on the issue. My reason for doing that is to point out that the way I view my role as (potential) CSM member, is to not push my own views, but pick up those having a "following" in the general player base.
And I suspect that my view on how to deal with the forums is probably a minority view (as it's a tad radical), and as such I'd not push this particular (personal) view "just because I can".
Which is how I plan to deal with all CSM issues.
TornSoul campaign website : It's about "The BIG picture" |
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