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The Empyrean Age by Tony Gonzales

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Author	Topic
KtoJest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.05 12:07:00 - [31] hi- question for the folks that have read the book. chap. 23 (pp146-151) Otro is trying to get a handle on Tibus Heth. In the process, he identifies a tattoo on Tibus's wrist as being a mark of the Templis Dragonaurs. Q: How come no one else has seen it? ie T.H.'s employers; past present and prospective? Or am i missing something? :)
Arcon Telf Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.06 08:32:00 - [32] Has anyone in the US had any luck procuring the book using traditional means (i.e. Amazon US, B&N, Borders, etc.)?
Mahogany Finish State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.06 19:01:00 - [33] I was only able to get it in the U.S. through Amazon.co.uk. Pretty good book, I reviewed it here.
Charles Stross	Posted - 2008.07.08 18:53:00 - [34] Edited by: Charles Stross on 08/07/2008 18:54:26 Originally by: KtoJest hi- question for the folks that have read the book. chap. 23 (pp146-151) Otro is trying to get a handle on Tibus Heth. In the process, he identifies a tattoo on Tibus's wrist as being a mark of the Templis Dragonaurs. Q: How come no one else has seen it? ie T.H.'s employers; past present and prospective? Or am i missing something? :) Yeah you're missing the fact that it's poorly written and edited.
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.08 19:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Stitcher on 08/07/2008 19:16:13 Edited by: Stitcher on 08/07/2008 19:13:58 Originally by: KtoJest hi- question for the folks that have read the book. chap. 23 (pp146-151) Otro is trying to get a handle on Tibus Heth. In the process, he identifies a tattoo on Tibus's wrist as being a mark of the Templis Dragonaurs. Q: How come no one else has seen it? ie T.H.'s employers; past present and prospective? Or am i missing something? :) It took Gariushi top-level access to Ishukone's quantum supercomputers, and a comparative eternity (several seconds) of processing time before the connection was made. My guess? Not many people would even have recognized the tattoo for what it was at all. As a megacorporate CEO however, Gariushi would probably have been briefed on all sorts of classified information that might be well above the access level of an ordinary citizen working at Heth's level of society. There's every possibility that people may have HEARD of the Templis Dragonaurs, but that their emblems and iconography are restricted information within the State to hinder their recruitment efforts. Besides, there's every possibility he was just good at hiding it. I agree that it's something of a stretch, however. It would have been better disclosed via a communication from some investigative agent or another that Gariushi had assigned to finding out what Heth was doing in the years he was off the grid. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
static zero Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:45:00 - [36] I just finished the book. Overall it was very enjoyable. I would humbly suggest, however, that the book be manually proofread for spelling errors. It seemed like every chapter had at least three misspellings. Many of them were either misspellings of proper names, like "Malaetu" or "Shakur." I also found, quite often, homophones like "were" used in a context where "where" would have been correct. It leads me to believe the document was simply checked by a word processor's spell checker before submission. Normally I haven't got a problem looking past things like that, but it was rather distracting in this instance. I had expected more polish in a book this length. The stories that Tony told, though, are sucking me back into this wondrous universe after a long time away. Despite its flaws, I enjoyed the stories very much, and I'm catching up on all the news since my hiatus started. -static zero
RU Sirius Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.18 19:33:00 - [37] i've actually given up on it around p150 or so. The annoyance and disappointment that it was, well basically fanfiction quality rather than professional writing overwhelmed my desire to actually continue reading. http://www.save-evetv.com/
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.19 13:51:00 - [38] I am just starting part three now. (About 200+ pages in.) And it seems to have a lot of 'Wow' factor, but not much depth. The characters all play into common and overdone sci-fi archetypes at this point.(Besides Falek's clone.) And I am really getting annoyed with the simpleton morality, which would be more at place in a fantasy setting, not a sci-fi one such as Eve.(Or at least thats how I see it.) I am going to finish it because it is official PF and it is laying out many details which can be brought into RP. But outside of an Eve role-player, or any fan of the back story, or those who like drawn out descriptions of zero-G sex.(Note to self, if ever shagging a hot Gallentee chick, do not think of Tibus Heth.) I can't recommend it as more then basic pulp science fiction. But maybe the second half will be better. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.19 15:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Uilliam Nebel ... But outside of an Eve role-player, or any fan of the back story, or those who like drawn out descriptions of zero-G sex... Drawn-out? Dude, it was like half a paragraph. You want drawn-out descriptions, you need to read C.S.Goto (AKA C.S. Multilaser) sometime (Black Library Author, wrote some tie-ins with the Dawn of War games and decided to just ignore the Warhammer 40,000 PF wholesale). There's one scene affectionately known as "The R[avishing] of Taldeer" that just goes on and on and ON. Believe me, I have read a lot of bad books in my time. Empyrean Age ain't one of them. I'll retract one of my first comments about it being a "masterpiece" now that the fangasm has worn off, but I still reckon it's a decent read. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:36:00 - [40] It is a good book. I personally think some of the plot-twists are a bit far-fetched and not all of the multiple sub-plots have a satisfactory conclusion and I would have loved if the space battles would have gotten a little more room. But yes, overall it is a good book and I recommend to read it to the end.

Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Stitcher I'll retract one of my first comments about it being a "masterpiece" now that the fangasm has worn off, but I still reckon it's a decent read. My view, it was a half page that didn't need to be there, and it's only purpose seemed to be 'Look people have zero-G sex in Eve.' Perhaps I should have gone more into the horrors of how Karsoth spends his time with his slaves on page 208? I mean, we read his thoughts as he is giving his address, do we need to have that added bit of sexually explicit excess to make it more clear he is a 'bad' guy, and wants to use people however he wishes? And I'm not saying that it is a horrible book, or the worst I ever read. I'm just saying it is an average sci-fi pulp, and the only real interest it has for me is that it is in the Eve setting. But the story is not all that deep, or original so far. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.19 18:28:00 - [42] Well, in an average Sci-Fi Book, or in many others, the good guys appears at the beginning of the book and the bad guys at latest on page 10. Empyerean Age is more or less full of bad guys, or at least a people who think themselves as good, while doing every conceivable crime. [slight spoiler] The only good guy is a person who lost his memory during a failed clone transfer and who has to discover that he was not a very nice person in his former life. I found it a refreshing change from many, Star Trek like Sci Fi books, with an universe full of do-gooders. So no, you are doing the book and the author wrong if you compare it to an average sci-fi book, that you read only once and forget afterwards.
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.19 18:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon So no, you are doing the book and the author wrong if you compare it to an average sci-fi book, that you read only once and forget afterwards. My point wasn't about how the 'good' guys, or 'bad 'guys' were presented. What I was pointing out with the example of Karsoth was the authors general lack of subtleness in presenting any of the characters, and their motives. And how many seem to just be a bunch of emotionally irresponsible teenagers in how they act. For example, the whole episode with Vince on the Retford. He goes to try and kill everyone by opening the bays airlock? Why cause he hates the Amarr, and thinks they are all dead anyhow? And there are many other examples, where the supposed elite of Eve act like a bunch of immature temper tantrum throwing Dawson's Creek fill ins. That sadly, is the overwhelming amount of pulp sci-fi in print these days. Just a bunch of angst ridden types, where the poorly constructed stories 'bigger' point gives them perspective of being on the 'right' or 'bad' side or victimized by a system they are fighting against. And all the while it does not look to serve the plot, but try and relate to the reader in some way. Which is clearly the case with this book because it looks to have been written with a focus toward twelve to sixteen year olds. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.19 21:51:00 - [44] ôSo no, you are doing the book and the author wrong if you compare it to an average sci-fi book, that you read only once and forget afterwards.ö With the amount of plot holes and things that donÆt make sense I wonÆt be reading it a 2nd time. Although I did enjoy it, I donÆt think itÆs wrong to compare it to an average sci-fi book as thatÆs what it is. What about the last chapter? It went on about random stuff that had nothing to do with the storeys in the novel and that will be meaningless for most none Eve players who read it. Its bad writing to make a last chapter of the book unrelated to the rest of the book. It was just so random and felt like pulp writing. Saying that I did like the Broker and the way he was bought back and implanted. That was pretty good. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.19 22:09:00 - [45] Sure, it is not a masterpiece, like Hyperion from Dan Simmons. Yes it has plot holes, yes some sub-plots are not really resovled and not everone is acting logical. Everything is correct, but you can still enjoy the book. If you say stopped reading at page 150, then this is fine. I still think you are doing the book wrong, but it is of course your choice how you spend your time. One last thing, before I will leave this discussion for good. If you only read the greatest Sci Fi Novels of our time and do not bother with anything less, why have you picked up the book in the first place?
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.19 23:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon If you only read the greatest Sci Fi Novels of our time and do not bother with anything less, why have you picked up the book in the first place? For me, because it is a vital part of PF in Eve to know, and think of in regard to role-play. I now actually know, and have a sense of context for why the war has happened. I was actually able to fill in a lot of holes so far, in who, what, where, and when that the in-character news and chrons were lacking in detail. For instance, go read back over the news sources critically. Notice how they give you no real clue into the average person in Amarr's life, or perception of the war. Also you really have no idea of the motives or reasoning for those whom have caused these sweeping changes. This is where the book was very much enjoyed by myself, because it has given me more 'facts' in so far as the setting goes. As a story so far, I just don't think it is meant to appeal to more mature readers whom more often then not don't want characters who are special, have attitude, or some other 'it' factor. They want people like themselves, who worry about their career, paying bills, the everyday work involved with keeping a regular and happy marriage going, raising kids. And they like to read about these normal and 'I was not a slave somewhere beaten every day with a dirty toilet brush' characters as they deal with extraordinary events and circumstances. Because they can relate to them on a human level, and feel themselves pulled into the story more, as they think of what they would do. However here, every other person is a former slave mad at the world, a religious sociopath, the Gallantee version of Maverick in 'Top Gun', a violent criminal, a victim of abuse.. etc, etc... I found myself really only able to relate to the clone, as he was the only one without his head up his own rear and all on about himself. And that translates to pulp escapism sci-fi in my view. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.07.20 00:27:00 - [47] I'm a big fan of CCP and frequently on the other side of this debate, but for once I've gotta say that I'm feeling a bit disappointed. Not hugely, just a little let down. I was hoping for something a bit more cerebral, that toyed with all the conceptual and philosophical depth that Eve's backstory has long been rich with. They had so many pages to work with, a captive audience...it feels like that hasn't been totally capitalised upon. Still, a damn good effort for a pioneering approach to game design, they have to be credited for that. Also, I don't think the entire novel was intellectually vacant by any means, it delved the odd depth, but I personally found those moments too far and few between...and too overtly explored. Subtlety, it seems, was sacrificed upon the altar of ensured reader understanding. I don't really pass any judgement on that as I can understand why, but it's always going to leave at least some disappointed. I guess at one point a cost-benefit analysis was made and people like Uilliam, myself and quite a few others were deemed to be the minority sitting down one of two mutually exclusive paths. That's how it goes. I think Uilliam's summary of some of the problems is quite accurate and well-put. For my part I've just come into TEA with mismatched expectations. I'm easy enough to please though, even with pulp, so I still found the novel was interesting enough and felt compelled to read the whole thing over a day. It just didn't blow my fluffy little Egger-SocksÖ off, though. It was a long-burning love of Eve that fuelled the page-turning, not anything else.
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.21 02:25:00 - [48] Edited by: Uilliam Nebel on 21/07/2008 02:25:27 O.K., just got to the part where the Prime Minister of the Republic, Karen Midular, is sexually assaulted as everything is going to hell with the Matari government inside a high security government bunker. Yeah, uhm.... I have to agree with RU Sirius' observation, this is little better then fan fiction writing quality at most. I can deal with the numerous typos, and quite a few other things. But to see as sick a crime as sexually assaulting a woman tossed in for little more then shock value, as it in no shape, way, or form advances the story or contributes to the plot, has me thinking about not finishing the rest. I know Eve is supposed to be a 'dark' setting and all. But this story just seems loaded with bad things for their own sake, and doesn't try to offer any real context to the events taking place, or support the over all storyline. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:36:00 - [49] All I can say is, I'm very happy for you people that you've only ever apparently encountered the superlative end of sci-fi before, because I just had a run-in with a title that apparently received critical acclaim and yet, in my opinion, is far worse in the quality of its writing during it's best bits than Empyrean Age is at it's worst. I am referring to "Split Infinity" by Piers Anthony. Yay, here's a cliched "everybody lives in domed cities" sci fi world where, for some inexplicable reason, the vast majority of the planet's population are required by law to wear no clothing whatsoever. And there's a kind of interdimensional wall running across that whole planet that drops you on an equally cliched magical world of unicorns and werewolves, where everybody addresses each other as "thee" and "thou". The protagonist's girlfriends include a robot, a unicorn (no, really), and his alternate self's widow. His alternate self also happened to be the most powerful wizard in the world, and he's inherited that power. The dialogue is stilted in that "you can write this crap, but nobody would ever speak it" way, and the only character with any depth at all is the sodding werewolf. And the bloody thing was the first of a series of seven, apparently. I tell you this, if that book had been published today, as opposed to the 1980s, then it would have been torn to bloody shreds. back when it was published, it got excellent reviews. If there are "critically acclaimed" books out there whose writing style falls massively short of the standard set by Empyrean Age, I'd say it's a bit harsh to call TonyG's writing "fan fiction standard". I reckon you folks have just become jaded because you've only ever read the really, really good stuff. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.07.21 13:10:00 - [50] That novel does sound awful. Anyways, my dear Stitcher, please don't lump one person in with the next when the common ground we share is simply that there were points of the novel that disappointed us. For my own part, I've barely been exposed to Sci-Fi at all, and even then only really in the medium of films. TEA was in fact, the first piece of published science fiction I think I've ever read. I come from a philosophy background, so that's what interests me most about Eve - philosophical issues. One of my favorite moments in the book was Victor's internal dialogue after he realises Marius is rejecting his "old self". Quote: This is the paradox of immortality...if we treat the living as just future memories - mere passing entities to be cherished only when it suits us - then should we treat each clone as an independent life, discounting the merit of past deeds as irrelevant from one copy to the next? That is my kind of stuff. Eve is riddled with a plethora of interesting issues like these. Things that in our world are only ever the subjects of thought experiments are, in Eve, real issues of the day. AI, cloning, posthumanism...there are some concepts here that you could spend entire novels writing on and many have. Tony touched on this stuff throughout the novel and at times he delved into it a decent amount. My only wish was that he trusted the intelligence of his audience even further and got even more stuck in to them. Instead we had lots of high drama and plot twists and the like. It's not that I don't like this stuff, I like it as much as the next guy. It's just that when you have a setting so packed with potential as Eve is, my personal opinion is that you don't do it as much justice as you could have unless you give this stuff more time than it had. That's just my opinion. I don't think it's "THE TRUTH" or anything. It's just how I feel about this, and maybe Tony or the other CCP guys are reading this, maybe not, maybe there's something of value in that opinion for him/them, maybe not, but feedback is better than silence, I always say! By the way, I don't agree that it's "fan fiction standard". The standard of fanfic is by and large fairly poor and Tony's book had me turning pages until it was done, a full 12hr reading session. I said earlier that was only spurred on by my love of Eve, but I take that back. The way the plot unfolded and the way some of the characters were built up made me really want to lose myself in the story, so that's another thing to credit him for. I do think it's "pulp" though, which is to say I think it's made to have a broad appeal and not alienate anyone with heavy intellectual explorations. I think that's an entirely fair claim myself, and it's not really a negative value judgement in any case, it's just how I see it. I admit that its the best way to go if you want to have the most widespread success possible with the lowest risk. At the end of the day I'd have just approached it differently. If I were fortunate enough to have been in Tony's shoes, I'd aim to write something that could win Booker (I said I'd aim for that, not achieve it! :P) not something that Eve fans would snap up (which they certainly have here, which is great). I'd have attempted something that launches Eve into the consciousness of a whole new audience, that elevates it once again into a far wider arena and showcases this unique game to the world again. Not as a giant economic/political/space simulator, as has been done in other endeavors, but as a giant philosophical thought experiment inhabited by thousands of players. I'd have tried to establish Eve as more than just a game in the same way Coke is more than just a sugary black soft drink. "Cultural phenomenom" - that's what I would have tried to build (upon). CCP is nothing if not tremendously ambitious. I hope someday that ambition helps them realise the true extent of the potential they're sitting on.

Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:38:00 - [51] I find it a nice book, period. And it has one massive problem: Deus Ex Machina. All over the place. Everytime that something is going to go the usual way (take Malkalen for example) one of the three Deus of Machina (yes, they are characters with name and all that) just appear and do something to change it and head it back to war. So it feels more like SuperHeroes of EVE. Not to mention that all factions are absolutely useless outside their SuperHeroes. Of all the CEOs and power in the Caldari corporations, no one else notices the symbol of the Dragonaurs (which, by the way, count hundreds of thousands of members... when they were simply a terrorist group at the starting of the book). Only Otro, because he's one of the important guys (not Deus, but close to it). Don't other corps have intelligence services watching that footage over and over to the milimiter? And, come on, the CEO of the most powerful corporation in the Caldari state, doesn't make a routine scan on who drives her to guarantee her security? Because how they force her to resign is hilarious. And the Minmatarr Republic is crippled with agents of the Amarr, so much that they can attempt to violate the President (what the **?! Is this a government with any seriousness) and the Republic government knows nothing about it, until the Elders come in and solve it all, because they know all the names and the crimes of all of them. What the ?! Why didn't they say so before and give the Republic a chance? So the book is nice, when the chapters have nothing to do with the Broker, Lady Sarum (what the **, psychic powers in EVE?!), or the Elders... well, and Otro Gariushi. The rest of the characters are cliched, not too bright, and all that, but at least they are not SuperHeroes of EvE. It is a nice read for those of us who like PF... specially if you can ignore parts of it. And I appreciate the huge effort made into interweaving the events in the novel with those of the news but the SuperHeroes just take everything locical and reasonable away. You know they are the only ones capable of doing things right, so you can bother skipping all the rest. Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.21 14:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Kai Zion Anyways, my dear Stitcher, please don't lump one person in with the next when the common ground we share is simply that there were points of the novel that disappointed us. Yeah, I'm just playing devil's advocate. In truth, there were moments that had me raising an eyebrow as well, but I hate to see a thread that's all negative and no positive, so I'm fighting the positive corner. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.07.21 15:18:00 - [53] You're in the position I'm normally in, godspeed! Seriously though, I'm a believer in balance, and I think a truly balanced perspective would see that the novel had both strong and weak points. Many of the weak points too, are not the fault of the author and are a symptom of ongoing storytelling that has been going on for well...goodness me...half a decade. It's commendable that so many loose ends have been collected together and begun to be wrapped up. Nothing you've said here or on IGS has failed to impress Stitch, so keep it up. I too think that an all-negative response is close-minded. <3
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.21 17:58:00 - [54] No, it is not all negative, by far. I find it pretty interesting when it comes to a chapter with none of the SuperHeroes around (like the story of the cargo and the clone). Though it does go a bit far even there. I mean, ignoring Jamyl Sarum speakign to people's minds, true that podpilots know ships better than anyone else... but you don't know that it has a leak that will destroy the whole ship on the exterior of the hull "just by impression". It was things like that that took away all the credibility in the story. Not to mention timespans. We all agree that things took place too quickly in-game in order to don't keep players from playing, and still the news were spread around for more than 10 hours. Yet, according to the novel, the whole invasion of the Gallente, and Amarr took place in little more than an hour... that is simply physically impossible. And has no reason for it. If you are going to keep it hurried up, use the timeline in the game which was very quick, don't speed it even more. Don't know, the story was well written, but it has so many big bad points that make the whole of it look worse than it is in truth. At least to me, but I've never liked SuperHeroes. ;) Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Uilliam Nebel Amarr 13th Udorian Rangers	Posted - 2008.07.21 18:34:00 - [55] I apologize if it seems I was being completely negative, or trying to tear it to shreds. It has it's moments, but it really can be described as follows. You one day see a very attractive face, in side profile, that completely gets your attention. Then they turn, and have a whole bunch of disgusting gunk on their face that they just didn't bother to clean off. They know it's there, hell, they are comfortable with it. My point is, it is hard to fall in love with a face that just could have used a good washing. Which is what the case feels like here with the novel. It has a lot of areas that just needed to be cleaned up, or rethought. Yes, the whole thing wasn't bad. But allowing certain things to remain there unpolished, or re-written, have taken away from it a good deal. / "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.)
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.22 07:54:00 - [56] Not to mention the odd things like a Race that cannot even see normal cloaked objects has no problem whatÆs so ever in spotting extra advance Jove cloaked objects. ItÆs all the stuff like that I didnÆt like. Backwards engineering 20,000 year old technology thatÆs far beyond anything you have ever seen and its made of and useÆs stuff you know nothing about. Next to impossible in its self but they did it in a matter of hours if that!! ThatÆs like a Caveman backwards engineering a quad core Intel computer. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2008.07.22 13:34:00 - [57] Originally by: Pottsey Backwards engineering 20,000 year old technology thatÆs far beyond anything you have ever seen and its made of and useÆs stuff you know nothing about. Next to impossible in its self but they did it in a matter of hours if that!! ThatÆs like a Caveman backwards engineering a quad core Intel computer. They didn't reverse-engineer it though. They just installed it and turned it on. Any monkey an press the big red button. - Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2008.07.22 15:18:00 - [58] No, Stitcher, the novel sais they do reverse ingeneer it before installing it and using it. So fear Amarr, people, we will soon have hundreds of those cannons! Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:29:00 - [59] Hundreds of those cannons and no ammo. At least untill they raid those drones with all that ammo. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.07.22 16:40:00 - [60] Who needs guns when you have superluminal telepathy!

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