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Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2008.07.22 17:19:00 -
[61]
Yes, but we will have the ammo sometime in the next... let me see, normal thing would require say 100 years of investigation, plus funding, plus secrecy... so in about thirty minutes now! And we will fire it from afar with special telepatic objects thatreact to Jamyl's thoughts, so she will actually conquer the whole universe in about... two days. Yay! 
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.22 20:09:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Sepherim
No, Stitcher, the novel sais they do reverse ingeneer it before installing it and using it. So fear Amarr, people, we will soon have hundreds of those cannons!
Only partially. They didn't take it to pieces, analyze it, learn the basic operating principles and put it back together again - what they did was the equivalent of setting it up without reading the manual.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
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Posted - 2008.07.23 03:20:00 -
[63]
As I read it, drones did dismount it, learn what each piece does, and place it back.
Ordo Quaesitoris Forum |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.07.23 05:06:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Pottsey on 23/07/2008 05:10:18
ôOnly partially. They didn't take it to pieces, analyze it, learn the basic operating principles and put it back together again - what they did was the equivalent of setting it up without reading the manual.ö
Which should take years if not much longer. They are dealing with a technology they know nothing about using principles and fuel they know nothing about. ItÆs hard enough to get Mac hardware to work on a PC both from the year 2000. Yet alone getting hardware to work thatÆs 20,000 years age difference. Everything from the socket shape, programming language, power requirements would be totally different.
You know how hard it is to get 1980Æs computer equipment and programs working on todayÆs PCÆs. Now imagine a 20,000 year gap with equipment from a different planet with next to no link to each other.
To me it was the same as sticking a Eve Hybrid turret on todayÆs fighter jets or battleships. Not doable in a short timeframe.
They shouldnÆt even have been able to see it in the first. Did I miss it? Did they explain how the Amarr could see the Jove cloaked terrain Weapons. What we should have had was a Chronicle at least 1 year ago about the artefact find. Then in the book we see the end results of research into it.
More to the point the Jove know about the weapons so why didnÆt they use them against the Amarr battle all those years ago? Why did they leave them in space for anyone to find?
I do like the way the weapon was found and used just the timeframe was to compressed for my liking.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:26:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Stitcher on 23/07/2008 12:37:12
Originally by: Pottsey
Which should take years if not much longer. They are dealing with a technology they know nothing about using principles and fuel they know nothing about. ItÆs hard enough to get Mac hardware to work on a PC both from the year 2000. Yet alone getting hardware to work thatÆs 20,000 years age difference. Everything from the socket shape, programming language, power requirements would be totally different.
Oh? who said anything about programming language? If the trigger mechanism was just a certain voltage applied through a certain receptor, then programming language would be unnecessary - you could just wire it up to a trigger mechanism built and programmed by your own people. If the entire thing was solid-state electronics, then you wouldn't need to write any software for it at all.
Incompatible plug sockets? The EVE world is one of nanotechnology. Creating an appropriate power adapter of the correct size and shape would be the work of seconds with the right CAD/CAM tools.
Anyone with a decent brain can begin to use technology that they don't understand. I myself haven't the faintest idea how my mobile phone works, but I daresay that I could take it apart (I'm not going to, because I like having a valid warranty) and at least identify each module within it, especially because I have a vague idea of what it's supposed to do.
Those Amarr scientists were working from a basic knowledge of what the object had to do. They didn't need to understand how each component of the system worked, or how to operate it - they only needed to understand "this is a power conduit, this is a control unit, this handles a reaction of some description..."
Mass production or imitation of the technology, I agree, would take years of dedicated research, but what I gathered from the book was that the weapon was a modular system. All they needed to do was figure out which order to hook the modules up in, and how much power it required. Maybe it didn't need power at all - maybe all the energy came from its fuel source and literally all they needed to do was figure out where to plug in a fuel cell and how to trigger it.
Now, I'm not saying that a caveman could work my DVD player, but I daresay Sir Isaac Newton could have figured out how to turn on my television if he knew that it could be turned on.
Besides, past a certain threshold, operating principles aren't as much of a problem. We're past the point where any moderately advanced technology looks like magic to us - our imagination is able to grasp the idea of hyper-advanced technology. The same would be true of the Amarr. Their scientists would know full well that they were dealing with an advanced weapons system, especially given that they were apparently given a description of what it did by Lady Sarum first. That would massively expedite their efforts to figure out how to make it work.
I agree, they worked fast, but it didn't strike me as being unrealistically so.
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Uilliam Nebel
Amarr
13th Udorian Rangers
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Posted - 2008.07.29 20:14:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Stitcher
I agree, they worked fast, but it didn't strike me as being unrealistically so.
I after thinking on it agree, this is the divide between technology development and application in my mind. For instance, take a domain specific / mark up language like HTML. It is non-Turing complete, so it is mainly for giving a browser specific pre-set instructions to display a static content page. Still though, to dive into it's internals for extensive modification or complete understanding is a moderate task for many web application developers. While an average computer user can pick up the basics in a few hours and make a web page with it in the first day. Why? Because the average user is writing down what should happen in HTML, not how. The how has all ready been handled by the internals of HTML and the browser rendering.
In this case, as what was supposed to happen was known, a reverse engineering process can move quite fast. Also given that a very advanced engineering algorithm was being used by a quantum based computer? The fact that it took a few hours, points to a problem of near unimaginable complexity. The difference between a modern day digital computer, and what most projections say a relatively simple quantum computer are capable of is the difference between a single fire cracker and the bing bang.
/
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.) |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.01 22:11:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Arcon Telf
Has anyone in the US had any luck procuring the book using traditional means (i.e. Amazon US, B&N, Borders, etc.)?
Mine was just delivered from the US amazon page. It took a few weeks, but I got it via Amazon Prime with free 2 day shipping.
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Remus Navillum
z3r0 Gravity
Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.02 04:43:00 -
[68]
Damnit, I need to get around to ordering this book.
I found a 6 page sample excerpt that goes as far as Heth's takeover of the Caldari Constructions plant, and I'll admit, I was really wowed. Tony has really matured as a writer since Theodicy, which was also really good.
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Sexiest Beast
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.02 08:29:00 -
[69]
Is it me or is there an error on page 172 of the hardback edition ?
Jamyl Saturn ?
Everywhere else she is refered to as Jamyl Sarum but the CONCORD guys call her Jamyl Saturn. Im not up on the backstory but this kinda weirded me out a little.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.08.02 08:54:00 -
[70]
With all the other typeing errors in the book I would assume that one is also just an error.
____
Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation
(www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Zora
Gallente
Community for Justice
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.11 13:34:00 -
[71]
Well, I finally got around to finish reading the book and I have to say it was a very compelling piece of fiction, all in all. Definitely more than just a "fanfic", but it's hard for me to judge objectively since I'm involved in the EVE lore since a long time.
All the mentions of ship classes and ship names are probably not as meaningful, when you can't actually visualize what it really looks like.
Other than that, it was very solid storytelling, though I wish there were fewer "deus ex machina" elements (e.g. sarum's mystical powers destroying a titan backed fleet on it's own is really hard to justify in my mindset). Also the Amarr really seemed very one-dimensional, as others already have pointed out.
Despite that it's definitely an entertaining read, I could hardly put the book down when I really got into it. Political drama, moral implications of the "immortality" granted to the cloned elite warriors, and the dark, merciless universe that we all know really translated well into the book.
EVE is finally showing some progress in it's storyline, and I for one am very happy how this book sets the stage for some more refined RP in the game.
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.08.12 14:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Pottsey
With all the other typeing errors in the book I would assume that one is also just an error.
Yeah, I did enjoy the three separate instances of somebody being called "Mr. Lord"
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Lt. Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:04:00 -
[73]
I guess I could ask here...I wasn't a fan of Jamyl and the psychic powers thing, but could there be a precident for certian pseudo-science stuff in the form of the Intaki rebirth process? (Personality passed from a dying person to a newborn child through some cerremony)
It's established whether the technological Rebirth present in modern Eve is truely the same thing as traditional Rebirth, nor whether traditonal Rebirth is truely only an article of faith of if it's really real. But it's possibly the closest documented thing in pre-existing PF.
The Broker, the other big deus ex machina, I didn't much like either...I think it was interesting him being there as a technologicaly-created 'deus' and I bought it a little better when we fianly get in his head to know the real reason he's doing what he does but I kinda wish the "conspiracy theory" side of events was more just that. Anyone agree that he's out of the picture now though, or will he find a way to cure himself now that Insorium is in the open?
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:16:00 -
[74]
It is doubtful that the Broker will survive much longer. His clones detoriate at a very fast rate.
Insorum would be hard to obtain for him. Since any Insorum he may receive through a connection to the elders, will lose its effectiveness within a few days after it has been produced.
Also the Broker was infected by a disease that has effects much like Vitoc-withdrawal, but it is not caused by Vitoc.
If he would be able, to get his hands on the original formula, then he may be able to develop a cure for his condition. But the standard Insorum stuff is unlikely to help him.
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Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.08.16 00:11:00 -
[75]
I was thinking more along the lines of "Stand on a planet the Minmatar are attacking".
I kinda think the implication in the book is that the clone we saw at the end was his last but it's ambiguious.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.08.29 16:23:00 -
[76]
I read the book twice, and frankly, I'm disappointed.
It's not that it's a bad read all-in-all, it does have pace, and it does some nice things. The biggest problem is that of a lack of a good editor. Someone who could have told the author to go back and do things differently.
To me, all the characters remain flat. There's no progression or even amicability in any of them. They also act and talk the same. So much so that it was sometimes difficult to keep them apart.
But the biggest flaw is the ludicrous use of various Deus ex Machina in the book. The broker is even a walking and talking Deus ex Machina. He's way beyond believable. The same goes for Jamyl and the Elders. They don't move the plot along, they seem to dictate all events and occurences. It's plain frustrating to read about them, and for mean broke all willingness for suspension of disbelieve.
Then there are the huge plot holes all over the place, in part created by these Deus ex Machina as well. Not to mention the utter stupidity of most (if not all) of the cast. They seem to be determined to walk into all traps setup for them. Traps an attentative reader will see coming half a book ago, or are even explain in detail to the reader.
Nope, not a good book. Interesting to read from a RP point of view, but pretty poor for all other points of view.
--
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Vincent Pryce
Gallente
Ghost Wolves of Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Posted - 2008.08.29 17:25:00 -
[77]
I enjoyed the book very much, easy read and fluent text. I especially enjoyed the parts dealing with Falek/Marius' relationship with Gear and the events concerning rest of the crew of the Retford. Sure the book had some potholes and what not but all in all I liked the text - it was very entertaining, even recommended it to a few friends of mine not familiar with EVE. It explained quite nicely some basic stuff for the average reader whom have no prior experience with EVE and at the same tiem it didn't bore me out. Good book in my oppinion, money well spent. Hope we see more EVE novels in the future.
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King for a day, Batman forever... |
Grunt MacHardFist
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Posted - 2008.08.30 12:12:00 -
[78]
The book was a fun read. But after about the fifth high-brow political speech done in exactly the same tone of voice and exactly the same idioms (even though you would think Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar, and Amarr would think differently), it started to get stale. While the author knows how to use English, it seemed there was little attempt to differentiate characters: Keitan Yun, Lt. Corvin, Falek/Marius, and Otro Gariushi seemed more like avatars of one being rather than individuals. Other characters merged in similar clusters so that moving between any of the story lines it didn't really feel like the characters were going away.
The plot was really the fun part, and it was what kept the pages turning for me. Lord knows I didn't like where some of it went, but overall it made for an adequate reflection on the pressing social and political issues of our modern planet Earth.
I bumped into quite a few typos and spelling errors that made me wonder if anyone had bothered to beta-test the book before publication, such as misspellings of proper names known in-game. It also made me wonder whether Tony Gonzales plays the game, but I admit I would be happier not knowing the answer to that question. And if you're reading this, congratulations on your first, and I hope you get to take more time writing the next one.
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Stitcher
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2008.08.31 00:49:00 -
[79]
I'll drink to that. The next step for TonyG is definitely to learn how to right different characters with different speech patterns and idiosyncrasies.
Also, to get an editor who isn't drastically lazy when it comes to typos and inconsistency checks.
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Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
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