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Author	Topic
Benilopax Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.05.05 04:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Benilopax on 05/05/2008 04:48:13 I wouldn't be a good member of my political party if I didin't take the time to explain to you the importance of voting for the CSM over the next two weeks. I personally believe that voting and democracy are the most important processes after respiration and digestion. Why? Well in the case of this particular vote, it gives our community a chance to elect a representative council of players who will act as a guiding hand for CCP over the future months and years. However the reverse is also imporatant, they will have a responsibility to report back to us the players and answer our questions in a more un-restrained manner than CCP can. Do not be fooled, if the CSM see something that sucks they will tell us it sucks. I'm still not convinced, isn't this just a publicity stunt? So what if it is? Whatever happens nine people will be flying to iceland to push foward a mandate and CCP will think hard before dismissing it for they know how quickly the bubble will burst if the CSM return unsatisfied. The CSM will return with answers if nothing else, and good answers at that. Ok, sounds fair enough, but why should I bother Goonswarm and the other big alliances will just fill up the seats won't they? No no no no NO! That will not happen, don't be surprised if the big alliances get at least one seat on the council, however many candidates are popular in different circles, like Industry, the forums, role players, community services etc etc. So if you want to stay out of politics (and keep politics out of the CSM) vote for one of the community favourites. But, I'm a lazy guy, I never vote in real life cos the booths are too far to walk too... Well I'll be seeing you later about that (in an allyway weilding a ballot box), but fear not Mr Apathy, for the 21st century brings electronic voting! Yes thats right with two clicks of the mouse you will have voted for your csm candidate. Simply follow the link given after DT today and select your candidate. It will take less than 30seconds so why not? I hate the CSM and I also hate CCP for this ridiculous idea! I refuse to vote! Well, if you really hate the idea there is an abstain button you can select, if you really want to make your feelings known why not abstain so CCP can reveiw the voting process or the CSM all together. Not voting doesn't help CCP improve the game whichever way you look at it. Very well,your wise words have persuaded me sir, but I do not know who to vote for? Lucky for you there is plenty of info available, check out the candidate infozone post on this page, the Jita Park Speakers Corner forum, and sernity steel's CSM webspace fora list of candidates, their manifestos and questions and answers by the candidates and interested players. Good luck to all the candidates and please please vote everyone! THIS HAS BEEN A PARTY ELECTION BROADCAST BY THE GET OUT THERE AND VOTE GOD DAMN IT PARTY!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.05 04:52:00 - [2] Hrrmm. Voting for people who will no doubt turn on us as soon as they get elected to appease thier corp/alliance mates. No thank you. And yes this is how it will eventually work out so don't delude yourselves with all the smurfy goodness dripping from the candidates. CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Benilopax Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.05.05 04:54:00 - [3] Edited by: Benilopax on 05/05/2008 04:54:50 Originally by: Zeba Hrrmm. Voting for people who will no doubt turn on us as soon as they get elected to appease thier corp/alliance mates. No thank you. And yes this is how it will eventually work out so don't delude yourselves with all the smurfy goodness dripping from the candidates. CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. You silly wabbit, I said guiding hand, they aren't letting CSM program the game. If you don't like it abstain! Also if you read my post you will find there are candiadtes with no alliances or corps to appease.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.05 04:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Benilopax You silly wabbit, I said guiding hand, they aren't letting CSM program the game. If you don't like it abstain! Also if you read my post you will find there are candiadtes with no alliances or corps to appease. Alts my friend, alts. And yes I'm abstaining but am looking forward with much glee to the aftermath of the elections. If this was any other mmo the CSM initiative would probably be a good thing but in Eve with its rampant political metagaming?! lmao. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
ProfessorDoctor Bob	Posted - 2008.05.05 05:38:00 - [5] The important thing here is that this is not a Board of Directors that will tell CCP how to do their business. All the CSM can do is bring light of some of the more pressing issues, serious or not, to CCPs attention. At the end of the day, CCP has the final word.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.05.05 05:43:00 - [6] Originally by: ProfessorDoctor Bob The important thing here is that this is not a Board of Directors that will tell CCP how to do their business. All the CSM can do is bring light of some of the more pressing issues, serious or not, to CCPs attention. At the end of the day, CCP has the final word. Yes we all know this but never underestimate the influance of intelligent aggressive people with an agenda. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Taikun Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.05.05 07:07:00 - [7] Edited by: Taikun on 05/05/2008 07:09:05 Originally by: Zeba CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. CCP has a long history of manipulating playing conditions to suit their own needs/requirements. Heck... why was there an internal affairs position appointed? Why are there these so called 'players representatives' elections? Why indeed? Simple answer... CCP employees cheated their customers and this is nothing more than a PR exercise to facilitate damage control. You know, bring something out that CCP can claim is 'revolutionary' to the media. Never mind the fact Sony brought elected class reps/correspondents 5 years ago. Nothing new here. CCP cleaning/covering up for employee malfeasance. CCP is simply using a ongoing weakness in their company and attempting to spin it into a media positive. So, voting is important if you want to trollop along with CCP's marketing/spin department vision for distracting the player base from chronically poor customer service. I prefer not to be so gullible. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.05 07:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Zeba Hrrmm. Voting for people who will no doubt turn on us as soon as they get elected to appease thier corp/alliance mates. No thank you. And yes this is how it will eventually work out so don't delude yourselves with all the smurfy goodness dripping from the candidates. CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. I'm sorry. I'm not a part of any major alliance(All my characters are listed in a thread in the CSM forum, check for yourself). So am I gonna turn my back on you, in favor of... a noob corp? Ha, I actually like that idea. But it won't happen.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:10:00 - [9] Sorry but I don't believe in "vox populi". The only reason why we have to use it in RL is becouse there is no better option (I think someone said something similiar before heh). Masses have wrong opinions too often and it is too easy to manipulate them. The only entity I trust with designing Eve game world is CCP and their professional game designers. In this case, dictatorship is good. Therefore I will not vote.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 05/05/2008 07:09:05 Originally by: Zeba CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. CCP has a long history of manipulating playing conditions to suit their own needs/requirements. Heck... why was there an internal affairs position appointed? Why are there these so called 'players representatives' elections? Why indeed? Simple answer... CCP employees cheated their customers and this is nothing more than a PR exercise to facilitate damage control. You know, bring something out that CCP can claim is 'revolutionary' to the media. Never mind the fact Sony brought elected class reps/correspondents 5 years ago. Nothing new here. CCP cleaning/covering up for employee malfeasance. CCP is simply using a ongoing weakness in their company and attempting to spin it into a media positive. So, voting is important if you want to trollop along with CCP's marketing/spin department vision for distracting the player base from chronically poor customer service. I prefer not to be so gullible. Taikun Thing is though Taikun, the fact that you hopped on this thread almost immediately after it was posted means you more than likely spend alot of time on this forum, participating heavily in eve etc- Hell you even have a very nice sig! Those facts and the fact that you still subscribe to Eve at all tends to diminish the appearance of your own conviction to your argument. Im no fanboi of CCP, but dont you think that there is more to the CSM than that incident that happened almost 2 years ago? I really dont know why people continue to rant/whine/bi-tch about ccp WITHOUT giving an alternative, whether its about nerfs, player conduct or employee conduct for that matter. All you are doing is just bringing alot of irrelevant negativity onto a forum that really needs to clean itself up. Im not saying dont post- but dont just *** about something without providing a decent alternative. If ccp did nothing you would be complaining about that- if they sacked most of their staff you would accuse them of fascism- if they go to the playerbase for ideas/ opinions, you accuse them of PR fluff. What exactly would make you (and the other whinny posters like you) happy? Why not just play the game itself and not get involved at all in the meta/running/community interaction that goes on if it really, really bothers you that much? Aussie TZ pvp corp AuPac is recruiting**

PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Robacz Sorry but I don't believe in "vox populi". The only reason why we have to use it in RL is becouse there is no better option (I think someone said something similiar before heh). Masses have wrong opinions too often and it is too easy to manipulate them. The only entity I trust with designing Eve game world is CCP and their professional game designers. In this case, dictatorship is good. Therefore I will not vote. I hardly think that something like a democratic process such as the csm could be called vox populi. If anything its attempting to elevate a representative voice above the firebrand wielding, anarchistic masses of the GD and CAOD forums. And if you feel its the best availiable option in RL, what makes it less attractive here? Basically you are ok with a centralised dictatorial framework for your social/spare time but only so long as its in a virtual environment? That doesnt make any sense at all. If you think that mass democracy is flawed (which I can see the arguments for) it shouldnt matter that what environment it occurs in, virtual or real life, it still remains flawed. In other words if you think there is a better option in a virtual scenario, such as the CSM, than you must also agree that there is a better one in RL.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.05 08:56:00 - [12] Edited by: Robacz on 05/05/2008 09:02:10 Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik I hardly think that something like a democratic process such as the csm could be called vox populi. If anything its attempting to elevate a representative voice above the firebrand wielding, anarchistic masses of the GD and CAOD forums. And if you feel its the best availiable option in RL, what makes it less attractive here? Basically you are ok with a centralised dictatorial framework for your social/spare time but only so long as its in a virtual environment? That doesnt make any sense at all. If you think that mass democracy is flawed (which I can see the arguments for) it shouldnt matter that what environment it occurs in, virtual or real life, it still remains flawed. In other words if you think there is a better option in a virtual scenario, such as the CSM, than you must also agree that there is a better one in RL. In RL, there is no owner of your country, whos best interest is to make it running smoothly and effectively. In fact, any governement will have many different interests that are conflicting with country's interests. Therefore if you install dictatorship, it is almost certain that this dictatorship will not work for its "users", but for itself. "Users" can't quit as easily or they won't be allowed to quit at all. Democracy reduces this, becouse governments are re-installed in given period. In Eve, CCP owns it. It makes them money. It is their best interest to make the game as good as possible. Their interests are identical with users interests + they have game design knowlege that are their users lacking. Users can quit when they are not happy. edit: typos
Kano Sekor Amarr modro CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:22:00 - [13] Uh how do i vote? ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ja'kar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:29:00 - [14] Don't believe the hype, don't, don't, believe the hype... (some of you may know this tune) MAFIA Website
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Zeba Hrrmm. Voting for people who will no doubt turn on us as soon as they get elected to appease thier corp/alliance mates. No thank you. And yes this is how it will eventually work out so don't delude yourselves with all the smurfy goodness dripping from the candidates. CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. yup this... ANY ONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION that have REAL power over others, should NOT be personally involved in ANY affairs effecting the area they have power over.. since humans will eventually misuse such powers or forget to even use them for what they had them for.. *thinking of some specific episodes that have happen in the eve world which have been quite hurtful and could have been avoided totally if this rule had been followed I declare war on stupidity
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:24:00 - [16] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Originally by: Taikun Edited by: Taikun on 05/05/2008 07:09:05 Originally by: Zeba CCP is the only entity I trust with modifiying the game mechanics. End of story. CCP has a long history of manipulating playing conditions to suit their own needs/requirements. Heck... why was there an internal affairs position appointed? Why are there these so called 'players representatives' elections? Why indeed? Simple answer... CCP employees cheated their customers and this is nothing more than a PR exercise to facilitate damage control. You know, bring something out that CCP can claim is 'revolutionary' to the media. Never mind the fact Sony brought elected class reps/correspondents 5 years ago. Nothing new here. CCP cleaning/covering up for employee malfeasance. CCP is simply using a ongoing weakness in their company and attempting to spin it into a media positive. So, voting is important if you want to trollop along with CCP's marketing/spin department vision for distracting the player base from chronically poor customer service. I prefer not to be so gullible. Taikun Thing is though Taikun, the fact that you hopped on this thread almost immediately after it was posted means you more than likely spend alot of time on this forum, participating heavily in eve etc- Hell you even have a very nice sig! Those facts and the fact that you still subscribe to Eve at all tends to diminish the appearance of your own conviction to your argument. Im no fanboi of CCP, but dont you think that there is more to the CSM than that incident that happened almost 2 years ago? I really dont know why people continue to rant/whine/bi-tch about ccp WITHOUT giving an alternative, whether its about nerfs, player conduct or employee conduct for that matter. All you are doing is just bringing alot of irrelevant negativity onto a forum that really needs to clean itself up. Im not saying dont post- but dont just ***** about something without providing a decent alternative. If ccp did nothing you would be complaining about that- if they sacked most of their staff you would accuse them of fascism- if they go to the playerbase for ideas/ opinions, you accuse them of PR fluff. What exactly would make you (and the other whinny posters like you) happy? Why not just play the game itself and not get involved at all in the meta/running/community interaction that goes on if it really, really bothers you that much? if they really wanted us to vote then let us vote on stuff that we want or don't want.. like "capitals in highsec, removel of suicide ganking, removel of gatecamps, pvp arena, a SKILL QUEUER system, should devs be allowed to interact active in the game. the nerf of nanoships how. etc."(yer yer just putting something out i have seen some pretty heavy debates on) such things that have come up time and time again let us vote and publish the result, and then state if enough voted for X for ccp to care and try to do something about it.. that is voting.. voting to have some asskissers sitting with them and saying "well i think the 0.0 alliances should have a I WIN BOTTOM against any not major 0.0 alliance" is just plain stupid and have no positive effect for those 81% players that is not living in a major 0.0 alliance (which will be the ones that get in this "group" of "elected" people I declare war on stupidity
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Buyerr voting to have some asskissers sitting with them and saying "well i think the 0.0 alliances should have a I WIN BOTTOM against any not major 0.0 alliance" is just plain stupid and have no positive effect for those 81% players that is not living in a major 0.0 alliance (which will be the ones that get in this "group" of "elected" people There are quite a few independent candidates that actually have a good chance of getting in. Watch my movie. And if you don't like me, you should vote for Dierdra Vaal of Eve University or any of the other neutrals. --- Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:42:00 - [18] I would vote if I found a candidate that is suitable for the job - but I havn't even researched any of the candidates at all. As a general and very wise rule - don't vote if you don't know who the hell your voting for; or it comes back to bite you and everyone else in the ass. Another important rule is to not vote because someone tells you to, and don't vote for who someone tells you to vote for either - unless your morally broken and there is some ISK involved ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Buyerr voting to have some asskissers sitting with them and saying "well i think the 0.0 alliances should have a I WIN BOTTOM against any not major 0.0 alliance" is just plain stupid and have no positive effect for those 81% players that is not living in a major 0.0 alliance (which will be the ones that get in this "group" of "elected" people This would never happen. Don't be silly.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Benilopax Wall of text I'm not voting because I think it's a PR stunt and a waste of time. -- Ralara / Ralarina "SMASH is probably the alliance most immune to failure cascade, why? because their is no organisation to collapse its just a random mish mash of various players."

Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.05 12:48:00 - [21] Edited by: Amastat on 05/05/2008 12:49:04 I havn't kept up with hardly anything in regards to CSM - but I'm wondering if there is any sa***uards in place to prevent fixed elections? Goonswarm for example has a crapload of members - that has enourmus voting power. Not to shoot down goonswarm for anything, but they or any other major alliance with a assload of members would maybe win completely and wouldnt even need to campign because they give themselves allt he votes they need. This is if the voting system is presumably open to all of EVE and there is no districts, restrictions, and so on. As I said, I have not read much on the mechanics of CSM in deph - so this is why I'm asking. Edit: safe guard s Sorry - CCP's stupid content filter's fault :P ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Caleese New Eden Research And Design School	Posted - 2008.05.05 13:20:00 - [22] How's about you and Lavista put out another podcast and THEN I'll think about voting ----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity?
manasi Caldari Ceptacemia Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.05 13:29:00 - [23] I'd like to vote, but I would like to know how...i'm not sure where to find it on the main page.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.05.05 13:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Amastat Sorry - CCP's stupid content filter's fault :P F-e-g is a word? Goes to dictionary.... News to me I'll be voting. As to those alleging corruption via alts and alliances, have a think about what you're saying... Each CSM candidate is a real person, with a verified passport, and any idiot in the position that CCP is in can find out with relative ease what accounts they run. Running your campaign via an alt would probably be frowned on and ought to be disallowed. In addition, what makes you think that alliances are all that big? Sure they have a lot of players, but we've just had a report that 80+% of accounts (that is, all the votes) are in empire space! Unless the 0.0 alliances are all operating 3-4 accounts each, they can't influence the election that much. As for the CSM being all about cover-ups and that incident a few years back, well, you enjoy your tin-foil hat... Oh and why are you still here if you don't trust CCP that much? Why are you paying them money? Can I have your stuff? I'm not saying it can't be gamed, but if the independents out there don't vote, they have only themselves to blame if the alliances take CSM power. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Amastat Caldari Omegatech	Posted - 2008.05.05 13:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: Amastat Sorry - CCP's stupid content filter's fault :P F-e-g is a word? Goes to dictionary.... News to me I'll be voting. As to those alleging corruption via alts and alliances, have a think about what you're saying... Each CSM candidate is a real person, with a verified passport, and any idiot in the position that CCP is in can find out with relative ease what accounts they run. Running your campaign via an alt would probably be frowned on and ought to be disallowed. In addition, what makes you think that alliances are all that big? Sure they have a lot of players, but we've just had a report that 80+% of accounts (that is, all the votes) are in empire space! Unless the 0.0 alliances are all operating 3-4 accounts each, they can't influence the election that much. As for the CSM being all about cover-ups and that incident a few years back, well, you enjoy your tin-foil hat... Oh and why are you still here if you don't trust CCP that much? Why are you paying them money? Can I have your stuff? I'm not saying it can't be gamed, but if the independents out there don't vote, they have only themselves to blame if the alliances take CSM power. Yup xD try typing the same word in a post. A fine example of the brilliant engineering put into the forum content filter. ____________________ "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the
Kharadran Sullath Caldari The Fallen Gingerbread Men Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.05.05 13:49:00 - [26] Would all muppets who continually whine about the CSM without having the faintest idea of its actual outcome please proceed to their closest large body of water and throw themselves into it. The CSM is a good initiative on CCP's part. No matter how you twist and turn it and post your predictions of disaster in a witty manner, it's still a good initiative. And it's more probable to lead to something good if people actually vote. Ty. ------- Insured criminals? Originally by: Fifth Horseman Similarly your insurance doesn't pay out if you fill your car with Gold Bullion and park it in the middle of Trafalgar Square.
Wadaya Caldari Trailerpark Industries	Posted - 2008.05.05 16:03:00 - [27] Edited by: Wadaya on 05/05/2008 16:03:42 Originally by: Kharadran Sullath Would all muppets who continually whine about the CSM without having the faintest idea of its actual outcome please proceed to their closest large body of water and throw themselves into it. The CSM is a good initiative on CCP's part. No matter how you twist and turn it and post your predictions of disaster in a witty manner, it's still a good initiative. And it's more probable to lead to something good if people actually vote. Ty. The most important vote option won't be there. The most important vote option should be "This is a really stupid idea". That voting option won't be there so they can act like China whenever they launch a rocket into space. Have a media crew there, but delay the broadcast of it until the rocket is actually in space, that way in case it blows up, they can say " We spotted a malfunction before launch and have postponed it until the problem can be rectified." Wad
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.05.05 17:09:00 - [28] I'm wondering how many of the candidates turn out to be alliance lackeys. Anyways, i might vote, or i might not, we also have the right to do that u know. Personally, i think i will vote for the guy who pays for his own trip to Iceland. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:38:00 - [29] For those saying they are going to abstain from the vote keep this in mind: By abstaining you are lowering the over all number of votes that are counted which in turn means the choices of who actually represents you is decided by a smaller and smaller group of individuals when compared to the total population. Though this vote does not put someone in office it will decide which opinions are most vocialy heard in person by the devs. If you abstain then complain about the choice you only have yourself to kick in the rear for that. -------------------------------- There isn't a test around that a smart man cant find some way to get around it.
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.05.05 20:46:00 - [30] I think it is more accurate to say that voting is like the process that happens after digestion.

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