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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Evelgrivion
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.05 09:33:00 -
[1]
A lot of people have been complaining lately about how developers often say so little these days. I suspect a lot of this has to do with the requirements CCP has for politeness in developer posts. A lot of the stuff that is posted these days by various community members is more or less impossible to reply to in a polite way. The statements that are replied to politely are usually met with conspiracies, making it even less tempting for them to post. But can this change?
I would like to propose an experiment: remove all the restrictions and guidelines that are in place for CCP employees, and leave the forums a completely even playing field for one week. Anything a player can say, a developer can say.
I believe we'll see a marked increase in CCP's presence on the forums, and a significant increase in the questions answered if they don't have to worry about a make believe corporate-image. An opportunity for the developers to tear down some of the lower quality forum posts is rather appealing to my person as well .
Please, Please, Please let the developers speak their minds
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Scetrov
Gallente OcUK Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.05.05 09:38:00 -
[2]
I think you probably hit the nail on the head when you said:
Quote: are usually met with conspiracies
A developer replying to a post can quite quickly derail something that was initially productive, so I can see why an individual CCP employee holds fire on saying anything. I think also perhaps the ratio of players (particularly those active on the forums) to developers has changed over time thus diluting the number developer posts on the forum.
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Eomar
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.05 09:42:00 -
[3]
Theres also the issue of the OMGFIXTEHLAGGZ ******s who continutally whine about the devs 'wasting time' doing other stuff.
The reason the dev team rarely reply is because theyre now chained to thier desks 23/7 FIXINGTEHLAGZ.
this includes the art/sales/customer services/finance and accounting/etc etc departments, who of course are the experts on TEHLAGZ and know more about 'turning off' the lag in jita than ANYONE. ...in accordance with the prophecy |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Scetrov I think you probably hit the nail on the head when you said:
Quote: are usually met with conspiracies
A developer replying to a post can quite quickly derail something that was initially productive, so I can see why an individual CCP employee holds fire on saying anything. I think also perhaps the ratio of players (particularly those active on the forums) to developers has changed over time thus diluting the number developer posts on the forum.
attitude in a game is the result of the devs. so if they think it is unpleasant to write because of the response from the players then maybe they should take a look on what creates this kind of attitude and fix it, instead of just hiding in a hole doing nothing. stand up and take some responsibility for your creation I declare war on stupidity |
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:36:00 -
[5]
Did you consider that a lot of devs ARE mature and wouldn't revert to insults even if there wasn't a rule saying they can't do it? ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.05 13:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Please, Please, Please let the developers speak their minds
Well, at least that will keep their posts short.
/Devdig2/
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ka Mizu
Mushroom Samba
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Posted - 2008.05.05 13:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Buyerr
attitude in a game is the result of the devs. so if they think it is unpleasant to write because of the response from the players then maybe they should take a look on what creates this kind of attitude and fix it, instead of just hiding in a hole doing nothing. stand up and take some responsibility for your creation
I don't think that they consider writing replies on the forum "unpleasant" because they are afraid of well thought out, constructive criticism.
If they are afraid of anything it is the huge number of people posting on these forums who consider themselves intelligent and able to see "all the issues", when in fact they are just self centred little children who are incapable of seeing beyond their own selfish desires.
The change in frequency of, and attitude in, dev posting has happened at the same time and pace as the abusiveness of the playerbase has increased.
It's not a coincidence.
As far as the abuse coming from players being the devs fault for not fixing things... well, that is a perfect example of what a self centred person who cannot see the larger picture because of their selfishness would say... likely making some dev, trying his hardest, feel bad and feel much less like posting on the forums.
Ka
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2008.05.05 13:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eomar
The reason the dev team rarely reply is because theyre now chained to thier desks 23/7 FIXINGTEHLAGZ.
this includes the art/sales/customer services/finance and accounting/etc etc departments, who of course are the experts on TEHLAGZ and know more about 'turning off' the lag in jita than ANYONE.
And the one hour a day they get off the Janitor takes over.
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Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.05.05 13:29:00 -
[9]
I know if I was a dev I wouldn't post here unless I absolutely had to. I mean why put up with all the crap they get?
Mind you I'd be the sorta dev that would read these forums, look at some of the whining and general bull**** that goes on, think to myself, "You ungrateful son of a *****, I helped create this game and you talk as if you know more than I do" *deletes whining idiots account*
I don't think I'd be all that good for business ----------------- Think of someone you consider of average intelligence... now realise this. Half the worlds population is dumber than that person. How does the world survive such stupidity? |
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2008.05.05 14:33:00 -
[10]
I was taught that if you canŠt say anything nice, itŠs better to say nothing at all
Adding to this, when we reply and we explain things from our end, we still get replies stating the contrary. What is the point of answering if people refuse to believe what we say? It turns into a waste of time for us to answer each thread with Šwe do not hate amarr/caldari/gallente/minmatar, honestŠ everytime it is brought up, so we simply donŠt bother.
Sometimes you have nice people on the forum who will repeat what we have said before and we do appreciate those efforts a lot. Fact is we simply cannot address every issue/question/thread on the forum because then weŠd never get any actual work done.
Having a special person do this, well he or she would need to be on top of every project and department in CCP and that is near impossible if you have to read the forums all day too.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Having a special person do this, well he or she would need to be on top of every project and department in CCP and that is near impossible if you have to read the forums all day too.
I bet you wouldn't have a shortage of candidates for that position, were you to job-interview people
1|2|3|4|5. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Having a special person do this, well he or she would need to be on top of every project and department in CCP and that is near impossible if you have to read the forums all day too.
I bet you wouldn't have a shortage of candidates for that position, were you to job-interview people
I'm in!
and conspiracy time!!! Evelgrivion is a dev alt saying that he wants to flame people with his ccp account
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I'm in!
Hell, what forum who... err... veteran wouldn't ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I'm in!
Hell, what forum who... err... veteran wouldn't ?
Nice one Akita, I like the tact!!!
If I was in the position, knowledge wise, I would be all over it.
Slade
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:36:00 -
[15]
anyone ever consider the devs are posting on the forums?
just not with thier dev accounts and instead with thier player accounts?
I mean if I became a dev someday, I wouldn't want to stop posting as me :)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I'm in!
Hell, what forum who... err... veteran wouldn't ?
I take pride in whoring myself out
on the forums of course
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.05.05 15:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Adding to this, when we reply and we explain things from our end, we still get replies stating the contrary. What is the point of answering if people refuse to believe what we say?
There will always be people who will disagree, but even out of those, I expect that the majority are mature enough not to post at all. Expressions of general assent are actually frowned upon in these forums, I should point out. Any chance of letting people post polls here?
Even the people who disagree are still generally pleased to have the information. For the rest of us, it's always interesting to know where the game is going, even if we don't always say so. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.05 16:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Adding to this, when we reply and we explain things from our end, we still get replies stating the contrary. What is the point of answering if people refuse to believe what we say?
There will always be people who will disagree, but even out of those, I expect that the majority are mature enough not to post at all. Expressions of general assent are actually frowned upon in these forums, I should point out. Any chance of letting people post polls here?
Even the people who disagree are still generally pleased to have the information. For the rest of us, it's always interesting to know where the game is going, even if we don't always say so.
its also pretty damn hard to find the dev/gm responses after a bit of time goes by.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.05 16:56:00 -
[19]
OMG AN ERIS POST!!! IT's A CONSPIRACY I TELL U!!!
Personally they can speak their minds, but on the other hand usually it's not good business calling ur customers morons!!! _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:07:00 -
[20]
1. Who says the devs aren't already posting a lot, but with hidden alts ? Noone forces them to use CCP accounts if they like to make more direct/offensive statements.
2. Asking the devs to act like normal players is just wrong. The words of devs have another weight/importance, if you'd get trolled by a dev that would be much more offensive, they have to be more careful about what they say. It's like in RL, if the average joe (us) talks crap, noone gives a **** about it. If a politician or celeb (devs) says the same crap, the media will tear him apart. So it makes perfect sense that devs are restricted to polite posting.
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CCP Atropos
C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 OMG AN ERIS POST!!! IT's A CONSPIRACY I TELL U!!!
Personally they can speak their minds, but on the other hand usually it's not good business calling ur customers morons!!!
Alas...
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: 000Hunter000 OMG AN ERIS POST!!! IT's A CONSPIRACY I TELL U!!!
Personally they can speak their minds, but on the other hand usually it's not good business calling ur customers morons!!!
Alas...
Real trolls donŠt listen anyway. I keep slapping Atropos around but he never learns
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Hana Lena
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:15:00 -
[23]
Pimp slap PIMP SLAP! _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ADHD + Dyslexia = BAD SPELLING! Proud to be in the FNA (for over a year) and not be a alt!
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: 000Hunter000 OMG AN ERIS POST!!! IT's A CONSPIRACY I TELL U!!!
Personally they can speak their minds, but on the other hand usually it's not good business calling ur customers morons!!!
Alas...
Posts like this are why teh forums are so fun.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: 000Hunter000 OMG AN ERIS POST!!! IT's A CONSPIRACY I TELL U!!!
Personally they can speak their minds, but on the other hand usually it's not good business calling ur customers morons!!!
Alas...
Real trolls donŠt listen anyway. I keep slapping Atropos around but he never learns
when the real trolls troll no one realizes there has been a troll trolling.
it takes a good listening to find out how to troll without setting of the troll is trolling alarms. its even better when its blatantly obvious See this thread for example
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=762893
Heh.. Successful troll is successful.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.05 17:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=762893
Heh.. Successful troll is successful.
i was thinking obvious troll is obvious, but it seemed to work too damn well
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.05 19:12:00 -
[28]
Why do I read this and immediately think, "Workload overload"? Mitnal, Community Representative
EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang |
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CCP Prism X
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.05 19:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Why do I read this and immediately think, "Workload overload"?
Yeah my initial reaction was pretty much: "****, I'd need to take a whole week off".
But on the serious side, we should be quite capable of exposing dogmatic ignorance without resorting to obvious measures. At any rate we can always just ignore it and let the community deal with it as obvious troll is obvious. That, ofcourse, has the annoying side effect of Dev presence becoming the inverse of troll rpesence but it's still an option. To be honest, I have, once, found myself doing the exact opposite of this and becoming quite obviously aggressive here and feel quite ashamed for it. Kudos to the person who broke my Zen... he/she/it also made me realise I drink way too much coffee. You live, you learn, 'eh?
Nevertheless, I'd love the idea of not having to wonder whether I'm crossing the invisible line. But it's taught me a thing or two when it comes to implying what I don't say. In retrospect it's alright by me. What I'd like to see was our GMs being free to answer any accusations directed towards them full force with quotes from the transaction log and a direct posting of the persons full API key. It wont happen as it's quite draconian, but it sure would be nice to see a drop in them slander topics. Y'know, might actually keep the decent discussions from being overlooked.
But that's just my silly ideas. I'm a Database Developer, not a community manager. I'd expect them to know a thing or umpteenhundred that I do not when it comes to their area of expertise. Still would be nice to see all them CCP Stole my ISK don thy tinfoil! threads gone. Those and the Waah! I made a petition 3 days ago (define days 'minutes') and the GMs haven't answered! I don't like those one bit and really need to stop wasting my time on them.
~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008. |
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:44:00 -
[30]
Acutally, what the devs should be doing is this:
MOAR DEV BLOGS
And good to see Prism posting quite a number of times lately. It's hot. Whether they agree or not, most people crave the ideas and opinions of the devs.
It's true. They may not like them, but they want to know.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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